| Non-motoring > Knife crime and so on | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Armel Coussine | Replies: 53 |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:00
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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Others may have seen the two photos from Notting Hill Carnival of a youth escaping after stabbing someone and a fat bloke trying to trip the toerag up. Today I read that the fat bloke is in fact a former Leningrad plodski now living here, and evidently a very fine fellow. Some no doubt will be thinking, yuck, glad I wasn't there, carnival ought to be stopped because that's the sort of thing that happens at it. Not me though. That incident happened about fifty yards from our old gaff of 36 years, and I really wish I had been there still, not for the stabbing of course but for all the rest of it. It makes me laugh when I hear the mayor saying generously that he didn't think it would be right to call the carnival off. Right or wrong, it isn't something you can cancel at the last minute because a lot of people have spent months working hard for nothing to put it on. And they aren't the sort of people who will take it lying down when someone, even the mayor, spits in their eye. Carnival is grass roots, genuine popular culture (not Jordan carp) that comes up from the base of society and is essentially leaderless and anarchist. That's why senior plod and the Kensington Council don't like it and want to get it 'under control'. And why they will never ever be able to, thank God. I am told it was a bit subdued this year, and I'm not surprised. Even so it will have been a wonderful experience for hundreds of thousands of people. I miss it. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:08
Knife crime and so on - sooty123
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I've seen you mention it a few time, I take it it's something that you have enjoyed over the years and are fond of? Never been myself and living in the North I know almost nothing about it or what it's about, it's usually mentioned on the news once a year. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:16
Knife crime and so on - Dog
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>>Carnival is grass roots, genuine popular culture (not Jordan carp)<< Do they have Carnival in the Middle East then tovarich? I though it was a mainly Christian event. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:29
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> Do they have Carnival in the Middle East then tovarich? I though it was a mainly Christian event. That wasn't the Jordan I was referring to perro. It is 'Christian' in a sense, yes. But it originates from the Caribbean whose populations have quite strong remnants of their original mainly African (but also American and Asian) animist cultures. You are right though to see it as a religious event. Once the garbage and flattened tins had been cleared off the streets the whole area felt unusually pure and peaceful for a week or two after carnival, as if a whole year's accumulated evil spirits had been swept away. That will sound fanciful to many and perhaps it is, but frankly I'm not bothered if people don't buy the idea. A bit of tinnitus and deafness from decibel overload is as good a reason as any for thinking things are pleasantly quiet. Ξ:o} |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:32
Knife crime and so on - Alanovich
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| Likewise the Reading Festival, AC. But that has the benefit of music you can listen to, rather than just beats, smashed out on bits of old tin. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:45
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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I trust you are teasing Alanović? Because if you really think that's what steel music is, it's about time you heard some. There are 200-piece steel orchestras that can imitate near-perfectly the whole range of a symphony orchestra, and do so regularly. But we don't often get to hear those in this country, alas. Nor of course is steel the only music to be heard at carnival, or even the main music. Reading festival indeed! You may like listening to superannuated British and American adolescents whanging out doleful narcissistic twaddle that doesn't even swing, and you're welcome to it. I prefer evil spade stuff myself. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:49
Knife crime and so on - Alanovich
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>> doleful narcissistic twaddle I trust you are teasing, AC. I'll take wailing guitar and soaring voices over upturned dustbins any day. I have heard steel music, of course. Not a totally unpeasant noise, but very limited and samey samey samey all the time. A bit like reggae. Snoozeville. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:57
Knife crime and so on - R.P.
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| And me too - there seems to be a surge of publically funded steel drum bands in this neck of the wood. Too discordant in the land of the song...! |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 14:57
Knife crime and so on - bathtub tom
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Notting Hill, shouldn't that be 'steal music', or am I thinking of Liverpool? If I'm going to use the spoon GB gave me, let's make good use of it. ;>) |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 15:04
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> I'll take wailing guitar and soaring voices over upturned dustbins any day. 'Wailing guitar' is exactly what I mean. It wails and wails and what plodding beat there ever was, dunk dunk dunk, disappears and is forgotten while the chap shakes his hair, if he still has any, over his axe and looks soulful and hunched. Then there's a long pause for the standing ovation. Rock and Roll writ large is a horrible artistic blind alley of the late 20th century. There aren't half a dozen bands that can get away with it live. Give these people artistic control and they will cost you money while boring the pants off you for years and years. Of course I don't mean ordinary working bands that play short numbers and swing in all sorts of ways. Just these legendary star turns, naff almost to a man/woman. Still, chacun à son goût comrade innit? |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 15:18
Knife crime and so on - Alanovich
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>> Rock and Roll writ large is a horrible artistic blind alley of the late 20th century. I don't know how you can say that and glorify steel drum music. Never has a blinder alley been blinder than that, surely? It's just the same old sound, over and over again. There's no variety, no interest, no range, nothing. You just nod your head and go "yeah". Rock'n'roll ain't noise pollution, rock'n'roll will never die. >> Of course I don't mean ordinary working bands that play >> short numbers and swing in all sorts of ways. But that's the majority of bands at Reading. There are hundreds, I'd say I'd never heard of 90-95% of them Discovered a few corkers whilst there this year. That's what it's about for the thinking punter at the Festival. >> Just these legendary star turns, naff almost to a man/woman. I actually loathed the main headline acts this year and went home to bed early. Especially Muse. Ker-rist they're annoying. In fact on the Friday, I didn't listen to a single band served up on the Main Stage. It was that poor. Pulp (who didn't headline for some bizarre reason), however, were tremendous, lead by the fabulous Jarvis Cocker (I fantasise that your good self bears a more than passing resemblece to him, to be honest - I picture a mop of suitably roguish and unkempt, distinguished looking, grey locks astride the countenance). >> Still, chacun à son goût comrade innit? Indeedy. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 15:35
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> I actually loathed the main headline acts this year and went home to bed early. Heh heh... all right, and I believe you when you say there were groovy unknowns. But there is, I insist, a very broad strain of annoyingly 'artistic' rock music that has strayed from its original purpose as essentially working-class American dance music. You get these little bands that sound miserable and right up themselves like Kevin the Teenager. But you and others here are being deeply philistine about steel. Nor do you give proper credit to its amazing roots as music made literally from recycled rubbish by people who wanted very much to make music but didn't have the means for ordinary musical instruments. It doesn't need any excuses to be made for it though. When in form a decent steel band, even a smallish one, is wonderful to hear. But it's difficult and takes a lot of regular practice, so is tending to die out. Syrupy PC multiculturalism with local council godfathers won't produce anything worthwhile barring miracles though. Bands have to be led by tyrannical Caribbean musicians steeped in that stuff. Aspiring band members have to be made to go to practice by their parents. And bands that aren't very good yet still have to perform. Naturally some are better than others. Same with any kind of music. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 16:18
Knife crime and so on - Alanovich
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>> Heh heh... all right, and I believe you when you say there were groovy unknowns. Try Anna Calvi for starters. And Foster the People. Aud Dutch Uncles. Cloud Control. Mariachi El Bronx. Daughter. Ham Sandwich. You'd love it there, AC. I have no idea about, nor interest in, the roots of steel. But I do know that, were I to come back to earth in 100 years, and there were steel drum bands, they'd sound exactly like the ones we have today. The same will not apply to rock music. And you call it a dead end. Tchah, to coin a phrase. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 16:43
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> you call it a dead end. Not so actually. What I said was more specific than that. I don't think rock is a dead end at all. It's given me a lot of pleasure and fun over the years and still can. But I do reserve the right to think quite ill of quite a lot of it. However I'm glad it's there. Not only are not all bands really good, but they can change for the worse or for the better with time. For example I heard Hawkwind in a freezing garage in Euston one New Year's eve before they had been really heard of, and I thought they were very good as well as amusing. Years later listened to a record and they were awful. Similarly, heard the Stones live before they were famous, the number three turn in a Hammersmith Odeon gig for Little Richard and Bo Diddley. They were rubbish. But as a star rock band they have survived incredibly well despite the lead singer's thin voice and girly dancing. They can still make you shake it when they get it on. And unless a rock band can do that, it's crap. As for steel, I don't think you can ever have heard it up close from a decent band. You seem to think it's crude and clunking. Nothing could be further from the truth. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 16:42
Knife crime and so on - Dog
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>>That wasn't the Jordan I was referring to perro<< I was only joking friend, as you know :) I've only been to a couple of Carnivals in my time - both in Tenerife, the Santa Cruz Carnival is quite something! The South American Carnivals must be absolutely tremendous and not for the feint hearted, We have the Padstow Hobby Oss and Helston Furry Dance down here, pre Christian (Pagan) Festivals. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 17:42
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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Even >> so it will have been a wonderful experience for hundreds of thousands of people. I >> miss it. >> I have been forced to go about three times in nearing 30 years....and on every other occasion have done my utmost to miss it, booking my holidays or something. I found it a truly awful experience, despite the copious amounts of overtime available younger in my career. I cannot for the life of me work out why it isn't held in Hyde Park, then the residents that live there that don't like it (which are quite a few) wouldn't have to leave their homes over that weekend....and the ones that do like it, could easily get to Hyde Park, it's walking distance. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 18:01
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> I found it a truly awful experience, despite the copious amounts of overtime available younger in my career. It wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea of course. And being out all day, at work, surrounded by boisterous idiots having a good time, might take the edge off it, overtime or no. I would find it gruelling at my age without somewhere to go. And actually people used to camp for the day on our front steps, and all the others in our block, politely asking to use the bog from time to time. The same people would arrive early to bag their places year after year. There were even some bad boys from Brixton selling drink and a bit of hash which they kindly offered samples of. They were good because they scared off the other bad people who often need to be expelled from ill-secured houses at carnival. The sticky mess on the steps afterwards was well worth all the rest of it to me. Anyone from that area before 1970 would be likely to enjoy carnival. Some but not all of the rich yuppie Johnnie-come-lately types don't like it. Well, no one is going to miss them if they slink off to the country to nurse their black racist anti-democratic little souls in peace (I don't mean you Westpig). Let them come back on Monday night and sod off to work early on Tuesday, bad cess to the carphounds. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 19:02
Knife crime and so on - R.P.
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| Worth reading the Daily Mail's report on the stabbing (c/w with the armchair warriors' ignorant rants) yesterday, today they had a follow up with a profile of the Russian that AC mentioned. Typically Mailish they made sure their readers knew he was a legal immigrant and how he loved the Royal Family etc etc.. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 19:11
Knife crime and so on - Dave_
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>> Worth reading the Daily Mail's report on the stabbing. Worth reading Inspector Gadget's blog posts on the Daily Mail's report on the stabbing. The statistics he quotes for Carnival are quite staggering: £4m policing cost, 5000 uniformed officers on duty, 40 pre-emptive arrests and 53 arrests over the weekend. At an event the press described as "peaceful". Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Thu 1 Sep 11 at 19:12
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 19:38
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> £4m policing cost That sounds cheap to me. Must be more than that. Those plod get damn fat wages for damn easy work at carnival. No wonder some of them smile, even the ones from the Met which believes in looking sour as a matter of policy. Like butchers laughing and whistling on the way to the bank. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 21:11
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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Well, no one is going >> to miss them if they slink off to the country to nurse their black racist >> anti-democratic little souls in peace (I don't mean you Westpig). Let them come back on >> Monday night and sod off to work early on Tuesday, bad cess to the carphounds. >> Just as a matter of interest. Would a city working professional, who lives in Notting Hill and doesn't go much on the carnival, preferring to disappear somewhere else that weekend...automatically be a racist for not liking it?...or could there be other reasons, such as: the increased lawlessness and the helplessness of the Old Bill to contain crime, the truly excessive noise, the mass congestion, vehicle removals and dramatically less parking, smells of God know what cooking in the street and people using alleys and basements as toilets, etc, etc. There was one in the not so distant past where it was claimed a success because there were 'only two shootings'? It's not a place i'd fancy strolling through with a full wallet and a decent watch. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 21:46
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> It's not a place i'd fancy strolling through with a full wallet and a decent watch. Oh dear. I wonder if I did mean you after all Westpig. In fact if I saw anyone who looked as if they were worried about their decent watch and fat wallet I'd be strongly tempted to mug them myself. There's nothing like an air of embattled respectability to attract toerags from all horizons. It's asking for it somehow. And it's a bit of a fault of the English character. I think you all need to watch out in the years to come. Keep your eyes open and don't read the papers, because you don't know how to. Really. I'm disappointed, although not shocked. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 21:54
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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>> Oh dear. I wonder if I did mean you after all Westpig. See, i'm really rather gald you've bitten....because....I feel quite strongly about it. I've just posted on PU's 9/11 thread and it's reminded me of a truly amazing night in a jazz club in New Orleans. Now that in my eyes is black culture, it was a wonderful night out. Nipping down to Notting Hill to smell some half cooked one side and burnt the other jerk chicken sold by an oik pretending to be a street trader...whilst inhaling a huge lungful of cannabis...and listening to some truly deafening music...whislt wondering if i'll be mugged by some of South London's finest out for the weekend to get away with what they can......nope, it doesn't do it for me. |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 15:44
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> See, i'm really rather gald you've bitten....because....I feel quite strongly about it. You must know that that wasn't a real 'bite' at all Westpig. Hardly even a light wrist-slap, and more in sorrow than in anger because I would have expected better of you. All right: your bona fides are established - not that they needed to be so far as I am concerned - with an enjoyable visit to a jazz venue in New Orleans. But you say: '... that to my eyes is black culture', as if you thought it somehow blacker or more cultured than all the other myriad forms of 'black culture'. Then you complain about weed smoke, bad street food and muggers at the Notting Hill Carnival. I've never even been to New Orleans but I would bet a thousand quid that were you to go there for Mardi Gras you could find many examples of all those things (nothing very black about any of them incidentally) on the New Orleans streets. Why is it that you and others have to whinge about carnival? No one says you have to like it. But posts from you and others here are 'too hip' as we used to say. You want us to know that you have been to carnival and weren't impressed. Well hard luck, but you are in a minority there. And your subtext is one of wimpish terror in the face of all this alien strangeness and clamour. I in my turn have a right to be singularly unimpressed, and that is what I am. You can't have it both ways. |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 15:52
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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Oh yes: these hard-working city thieves who have done so much for property prices in North Kensington: why did the idiots move there if they were scared or disgusted by carnival for two days a year? They are like people who move to the country and then sue their neighbours for letting their cocks crow at four in the morning. Absolute prats. |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 15:55
Knife crime and so on - Alanovich
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A similar species lives in the streets around Fulham football ground. They scream blue murder about football crowds, yet the stadium's been there well over 100 years...... Usually Porsche Cayenne owners, from the looks of it. |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 17:00
Knife crime and so on - Dog
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>>They are like people who move to the country and then sue their neighbours for letting their cocks crow at four in the morning<< Or, Church bells ringing on the hour and half hour all through the night. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfksup7Fd2o |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 19:47
Knife crime and so on - MD
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>> Oh yes: these hard-working city thieves who have done so much for property prices in >> North Kensington: why did the idiots move there if they were scared or disgusted by >> carnival for two days a year? >> >> They are like people who move to the country and then sue their neighbours for >> letting their cocks crow at four in the morning. Absolute prats. >> Mine has never crowed that early!! |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 23:10
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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>> Mine has never crowed that early!! >> you can get these little blue pills...;-) |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 16:43
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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>> I in my turn have a right to be singularly unimpressed, and that is what >> I am. You can't have it both ways. >> See that's the bit I don't understand. There's pluses and minuses in most things...and just because one person doesn't like something (me) doesn't mean it's wrong/bad and likewise the other way around. However if there are negatives.....and they are glaringly obvious negatives, why do people have to keep quiet about them...or risk being called 'ist' for whatever the subject matter is. At times, our freedom of speech is tempered...because some people use the threat of being called racist/homophobic/sexist etc as an inappropriate tool to temper others arguements, safe in the knowledge that the opponent wiil have to put their head down and not reply. That's wrong. If I think the carnival is awful...why shouldn't I say so? Most of this isn't aimed at you by the way..just the way our politically correct society has gone. Last edited by: Westpig on Fri 2 Sep 11 at 16:44
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 18:53
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> If I think the carnival is awful...why shouldn't I say so? >>> Most of this isn't aimed at you by the way..just the way our politically correct society has gone. Anyone is free to say they can't stand carnival. Some like RR just hate syncopated types of music, others are claustrophobes, and yet others, Wp, have had to get hot, sweaty, bored and irritated earning that overtime which probably seems hard-earned at the end of the day. No blame to you or them. And I agree with much of what you say about PC and the way people feel they can't say what they think and feel for fear of being accused of bigotry of one sort or another. We British are a bit mimsy and prattish like that. I know a lot of people who really ought to know better who come into that category. I like to think that I am not like that myself. However I also note that some of those who are scornful of PC then go on to display veiled bigotry of some sort using the PC business as a pretext. It's an obvious and therefore widespread phenomenon. Seems to me that this phobia about carnival boils down to fear of large crowds, which always - absolutely always - attract and include opportunist criminals of various sorts. But carnival isn't just a large crowd of people getting drunk and stoned and milling about making a mess upsetting the oh-so-respectable m**************s who have moved to Notting Hill because they think it's smart. It is a massive artistic effort by very large numbers of largely working-class West Indians. The techniques and the practice are passed down through families. Not gangs, not feckless youths: respectable working good-natured sprauncy black British families. What in other contexts people soppily call the 'community'. To find pickpocketing and half-raw jerk chicken distasteful is quite normal. To ignore, as most of the carnival disapprovers here do, this huge and genial artistic effort by real decent human beings strikes me as grossly philistine at the very least. |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 19:02
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> the oh-so-respectable m**************s who have moved to Notting Hill because they think it's smart. My apologies to the swear filter. I should have said 'frantic and incessant onanists'. |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 00:50
Knife crime and so on - Mr. Ecs
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"It is a massive artistic effort by very large numbers of largely working-class West Indians." And the stabbings,muggings, attacks, steaming can be attributed also to numbers of working class West Indians. It's got nothing to do with bigotry or racism, it's a fact. You just don't want to admit it. It goes against the grain of those West Indians and others who put on the carnival. So if this section of the community are so passionate about the spectacle, why can't they use the same passion to rid their community of these individuals that spoil it for them. Last night there was local TV news of a meeting of a majority audience of Black people with the MPS Commander and her deputy for Tottenham. Trying to get to the bottom of the riots. One Black woman stood up and said, her kids were too afraid to leave their house in fear of being stopped and searched by the police. I would suggest her kids like many in such areas are afraid to leave their houses for fear of being attacked by other black kids or stabbed. It's time the Black community laid the ghost of the "Sus" laws, the 70s and early 80s and allow the police to rid their communities of black on black crimes and killings. And the only way this will be done is when they take issue for the actions the ones pepertrating these acts and support the police in clamping down and erradicating this nonsense gang culture. It has to come from within their own community. Not just blame the police all the time. |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 03:53
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> And the stabbings,muggings, attacks, steaming can be attributed also to numbers of working class West Indians. It's got nothing to do with bigotry or racism, it's a fact. You just don't want to admit it. >> It's time the Black community laid the ghost of the "Sus" laws, the 70s and early 80s and allow the police to rid their communities of black on black crimes and killings. >> It has to come from within their own community. Not just blame the police all the time. This thread, not about crime or riots but something quite different, was badly headlined by me in a careless, frivolous moment. It caused trouble even among quite reasonable people. So I suppose I must blame myself when the egregious X decides on a bit of the usual ugly tabloid yawping, a good example actually of many things. No doubt he will have half a dozen gongs from the closet community before I finish writing this. Most unfortunate and utterly disgusting... My fault though. |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 09:19
Knife crime and so on - Zero
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>> My fault though. Indeed. You started a fresh bonfire, offering cans pf petrol to the bystanders, and then feigned mock suprise and horror when the flames exploded. Really Lud, we expect better of you. |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 12:24
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> feigned mock suprise and horror when the flames exploded. Not really. The surprise and horror were genuine. Blinkered, obsessive and ill-natured attitudes are not what I expect when I raise a subject. I thought all this knee-jerk, secondhand, malevolent rubbish, black people=crime etc., had been done to death in the riots thread. Always surprises me when people turn out as boring, nasty and limited as they look. Silly of me I know. Still, some no doubt will have been enlightened by X's masterly sociological grasp and comprehensive knowledge. And the total failure of some who have been to carnival to see anything positive in it at all, even when wheedled, is enlightening to me in a depressing way. |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 15:08
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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>> Blinkered, obsessive and ill-natured attitudes are not >> what I expect when I raise a subject. I thought all this knee-jerk, secondhand, malevolent >> rubbish, black people=crime etc., had been done to death in the riots thread. >> How about if you think that the vast majority by far, of black people that go to the carnival do not commit crime..but..that there's a significant minority that do..and it's their excuse for the weekned to get away with it...and how sad it is that the law abiding in society do not sing from the rooftops and decry it..whether black, white or otherwise... and also how sad it is that there's a form of censorship in our society, designed to prevent people from saying as much. >> Always surprises me when people turn out as boring, nasty and limited as they look. >> Silly of me I know. Still, some no doubt will have been enlightened by X's >> masterly sociological grasp and comprehensive knowledge. He has valid points in this context. And the total failure of some who have been >> to carnival to see anything positive in it at all, even when wheedled, is enlightening >> to me in a depressing way. I like cricket and motor racing. Most people I know or mix with, think both of them are like watching paint dry, esp the cricket. If someone doesn't like them..so what? It just shows how we are all different and have different tastes. Just because someone doesn't like the Notting Hill Carnival, it doesn't automatically make them people that are negative to black people or their culture....just that bit of it or the rowdy elements that try to take over that bit of it and the majority that keep quiet about it. >> |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 15:33
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> the rowdy elements that try to take over that bit of it and the majority that keep quiet about it. I haven't noticed anyone keeping quiet about toeraggery by anyone. If you take the trouble to listen to what people say, instead of making assumptions, you will find that black people are very down on thieving and hooliganism, and every bit as hangem and floggem as the tabloids, more so in a way because PC cuts little ice in established black British circles and even the tabloids pay hypocritical lip service to it. Let's take another example Westpig. Your friends who find cricket and motor racing boring would probably in most cases admit that these sports involve high levels of skill and dedication. Those who say they are bored by carnival appear blind to that side of it, absolutely blind as if that didn't exist. But they do bang on, and on, and on, about this petty crime which everyone knows can be found in and around any very large popular gathering. I've done my best here but it seems people are blind. I am tempted to say that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, a duck is what it is. And if you think that sounds a bit disrespectful, hard luck. |
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 17:39
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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>> I've done my best here but it seems people are blind. I am tempted to >> say that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, a duck >> is what it is. And if you think that sounds a bit disrespectful, hard luck. >> AC, I think it is you who are being equally presumptive. I don't go to football matches. I don't like the crowds, the potential violence, the poor quality facilities/food...and just don't like football. Same principle with the carnival only swap football with excessively loud thumping music not at all to my taste. Over a number of years admittedly, there's been murders, a marked increase in street robberies, knife crime etc.. at the carnival, because some, a distinct minority, see it as a free for all. That isn't my idea of a good day out. I appreciate a young kid making a costume for months and planning a float etc is good entertainment for them and their families. What i'm saying is A, it's 'horses for courses' as to whether anyone would enjoy it..and.. B, I'd like to see those communties that enjoy it the most, more vociferously distance themselves and condenm the criminality that frequently occurs at it. I know you're correct when you say West Indian communities don't like that aspect, i've heard that directly myself..but my sources from within those communities agree with me i.e. not enough is done from within those communities to convey that. Same principle as the vast majority of the peaceful followers of Islam versus the extremists. Last edited by: Westpig on Sat 3 Sep 11 at 17:43
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New Sat 3 Sep 11 23:52
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> I don't go to football matches. I don't like the crowds, the potential violence, the poor quality facilities/food I thought you might be a bit claustrophobic Wp. My mother was too, couldn't bear going in the tube. >> That isn't my idea of a good day out. Naturally it isn't anyone's. Bur 'over a number of years admittedly'... how often, really, have you seen or experienced anything bad or violent at carnival? It's rare, and also inevitable when there is a very big gathering. >> I appreciate a young kid making a costume for months and planning a float etc is good entertainment for them and their families. Not just kids. Adults. Kids don't have the muscle or techniques to make delicate looking costumes from wire and the like, or to design them. Not is it just 'costumes'. It's themes, often subversive, and in fact 'art' albeit of a popular kind. But you're cool Westpig, thank goodness, albeit a bit reluctantly... I wish I could say the same for everyone here. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 19:17
Knife crime and so on - Zero
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>> Others may have seen the two photos from Notting Hill Carnival of a youth escaping ...... >> miss it. What a strange post, No-one on here mentioned or attacked the event or any crimes that came out of it, yet we have general rant at us about our prejudices! Of course it can be stopped # at any time # if severe public disorder was threatened. Spurs opening match of the football season was cancelled, I don't recall any threats about having spit in eyes over that! I am pleased it went ahead without any trouble, but at the end of the day, its an event that's not inviolable |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 19:30
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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>> yet we have general rant at us about our prejudices! I wondered when you were going to run past in your balaclava and stick a bit of sharpened misubishi spring in my liver. Perhaps your own liver is at fault here Zeddo because you missed mine by a foot. Where the whatsitsname is there a single rant from me about 'our prejudices'? Have we another Hobby in our midst, an annoying twozzer who can't read? Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 1 Sep 11 at 20:01
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 19:58
Knife crime and so on - Dutchie
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Wife and daughter went once to watch the carnival.They enjoyed it and why not. Knife crime sick of hearing about it,got once attacked with a knife was lucky to get away with it. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 20:01
Knife crime and so on - Zero
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>> Where the whatsitsname is there a single rant from me about 'our prejudices'? Have we >> another Hobby in our midst, an annoying twozzer who can't read? No - this Hobby Twozzer can read, like this "Some no doubt will be thinking, yuck, glad I wasn't there, carnival ought to be stopped because that's the sort of thing that happens at it." And that my good fellow, before we even had the chance to put that thought in print on this page. I hope that liver of yours is severely lacerated now, waste of time tho I hasten to add, as I suspect there is not much it left. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 20:12
Knife crime and so on - Mapmaker
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| Ghastly event, should be stopped. Whilst it may have been the residents of Notting Hill decades ago, it isn't these days. Cannot see the appeal (I went to have a look at it once, and my only thought was I wished I had a vehicle in the procession as I'd be collecting scrap aluminium cans and would make a fortune.) |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 21:03
Knife crime and so on - Mr. Ecs
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"I found it a truly awful experience" Found myself "working" at Ladbroke Grove for the carnival 3 times also. What a nice man Andy Trotter was. A coppers copper in my view. BTPs' gain and MPSs' loss. I too found it a complete chore, didn't enjoy any of it. It's not exactly Rio, is it. Let it take place in Hyde Park and be done with it. Only appeals to the die hards like AC, and a younger element that uses it for their own ends. It's a money making venture for the locals (food and drink) a pickpockets paradise, and a muggers delight. And the clean up afterwards. How much does that cost? |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 21:56
Knife crime and so on - Cliff Pope
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| Regardless of any possible musical or cultural value, it's a good thing it went ahead and with so little trouble. A kind of mass atonement for the other recent troubles, a demonstration that Londoners still can do large cheerful peaceful events. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 21:59
Knife crime and so on - Westpig
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>> a demonstration that Londoners still can do large cheerful peaceful events. >> At a truly enormous taxpayers cost. There were something like 6,000 Old Bill there. If you put it in the park you could knock a nought off that figure. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 22:07
Knife crime and so on - Cliff Pope
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>> > >> At a truly enormous taxpayers cost. There were something like 6,000 Old Bill there. > you put it in the park you could knock a nought off that figure. >> Cheap at the price. I hope they enjoyed it. |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 22:01
Knife crime and so on - Armel Coussine
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last edited by R.P. Well that's it. If I can't call my friends evil little men, and am barked at by tabloid-reading claustrophobes in a blue funk about getting shot, stabbed and robbed, what chance is there for a think piece on the fabulous annual free present to London from its Caribbean residents that the carnival actually is? I give up until tomorrow anyway. By the way: no one really wants the park. It's a crap idea for a dozen different reasons. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 1 Sep 11 at 22:03
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 22:03
Knife crime and so on - Zero
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...last edited... I have to say I wasn't offended! Last edited by: Zero on Thu 1 Sep 11 at 22:04
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 22:20
Knife crime and so on - R.P.
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Oh fair enough.... |
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New Thu 1 Sep 11 22:05
Knife crime and so on - Robin O'Reliant
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| It's only fabulous if it's your sort of thing, it ain't mine and I'm glad I don't live there. Steel bands sound worse than jazz, and I hate jazz. |
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New Fri 2 Sep 11 19:55
Knife crime and so on - MD
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>> It's only fabulous if it's your sort of thing, it ain't mine and I'm glad >> I don't live there. Steel bands sound worse than jazz, and I hate jazz. >> Stripey Blazers, loud shirts, trombones and all that in the Christopher in Eton. Lovely Sundays they were. Previous heaven. |
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