My sister is renting a flat and has lived there for a week. It has had a few problems but the landlords have sorted the issues out. When I first visited the premises I noticed an old 4 way Wylex standard unit with a maximum capacity of 60A through the switch. I thought it was dodgy because it has a circuit braker and three fuses. The circuit braker is 40amp, another fuse is 30amps and the two light circuits are 5 amps. So the fuses can handle more current than the main switch on the unit can - surely that is not legal? I suspect age of the fittings it is a late 13th edition install, I would say circa 1978-1983 and the other fittings in the flat (such as kitchen and door handles) date to the same era.
Anyway on day two my sister noticed a light switch was getting hot, this is something I could fix in seconds at home, I suspected it was just a loose wire causing it to arch and the sparky came round today and confirmed there was a loose wire behind the switch.
However he was deeply concerned that the flat still had a fuse box and it had no RCD etc. He went off on one saying it was not to regulations and it needs changing instantly.
Now our house has a similar Wylex unit, but 6 way, again no RCD protection. In a private home it is perfectly legal and deemed safe, so why was the spark so quick to condemn this poor old Wylex unit?
Do traditional Wylex style fuse boxes now mean an automatic electrical safety inspection fail?
He has also demanded that the bathroom light fitting is replaced, because it is just standard lamp holder with no water proof protection, again if this was legal in 13th edition wires does it automatically fail an inspection?
So my question is, if you're renting out a property do the electrics have to meet newer standards than in a private property?
|
There should be a cert for the electrics ( gas aswell ).
I had a flat in a 200 year old hotel where the fuseboard melted when you ran the shower.
It had passed the safety checks. Scary stuff.
|
This does have a shower off the 60 amp fuse box too, with no separate consumer unit for that as far as I can tell. However the cooker is gas, and it is a one bedroom flat there is very little load on the ring main.
She has the gas safety certificate and the electrics where tested in 2009 apparently but she has no certificate showing that.
|
|
no certificate = no testing.
|
|
Which is what I suspect, I am guessing in 2009 something was done, but was probably nothing more than testing sockets/switches rather than any proper safety checks where they put loads into the system.
|
|
I had my meter box catch fire! The powerco 100 amp fuse/holder had gone high resistance and set fire the wooden backing plate.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 24 Aug 11 at 23:28
|
|
It happened a friend that too, although it was the meter itself which was over heating. The surge blew up my mates power supply and killed his hard drive. This would have been circa 1997.
|
There is no requirement for a wiring cert in rented property. It just has to be 'safe'. Some letting agents require them though.
There are plenty of wiring systems that don't pass latest regs but are perfectly ok. If it is wired in the 70s and hasn't been replaced then it is probably due a rewire or at least a thorough check.
|
What is dodgy about having a CB & fuses.?
CBs are obviously better and more convenient than fuses.
60A is quite a common rating for older consumer units but the town is not on fire.
You do not say what the 40A CB is for. Now seen your latest info.
Have you heard of diversity factor?
Sparks looking for business?
I thought that central type bathroom lights must be enclosed had been a requirement for decades.
I have no idea what he is on about "waterproof"
Sparks talking guff?
I recently replaced a three spot bathroom light fitting ( obviously not allowed) with an approved bathroom light unit. Certainly not waterproof or anything like it.
I would get another sparks.
If you are renting out property then the basics of safe connections obviously apply but I would be very surprised that "rented" means the latest standards must apply.
We would all like properties to have RCDs and MCBs etc but a sparks mumbling regulations condem etc is unacceptable.
Last edited by: henry k on Wed 24 Aug 11 at 23:36
|
Well it is the landlord paying not us, but I did suspect when he was wanting to replace the consumer unit he was maybe looking for a job.
The unit did look old etc but I was surprised when he wanted to replace it, although I was not there. There is certainly no evidence of over heating from the outside, and he didn't remove the cover to see if there was.
That said I suppose long term a 30+ year old consumer unit does need replacing, I was just surprised like you when it mentioned it wasn't to regulations, well no not now but in 1978 when it was installed it was and in that sense it is still legal.
|
My daughter rents her flat and I agree an annual gas cert is required but not electrics.
Re electric shower. MCB rating obviously depends on the shower power.
Daughters flat had an electric shower added at some time in the past.
The existing Wylex was supplemented with an external RCD & MCB.
I would not be happy without maximum protection for the shower.
This is what the sparks may have been mumbling about.
In my experience few are good communicators :-)
Re Wylex box. I swopped out the originlal a "fuse wire" fuses for MCBs. this at least improved protection and is obviouly a lot easier to reset than rewire.
One screw per MCB what could be simpler.
|
I suspect the MCB is for the shower, as that would make a lot more sense to have an MCB for that out of all the circuits, plus it is the highest rating.
Thought about replacing hours with MCBs, but for the cost it is probably just better spent having an electrical safety check done (PID?).
|
The sum of the individual fuses will always exceed that of the master fuse.
You might have a 60 amp main fuse and then 50 13-amp sockets around the house.
The assumption is you won't be trying to draw 13 amps from them all at the same time.
|
>>no certificate = no testing.
Our man Zero is right again, although it puzzles me that the electrics in a rental property do not require the same certification as its gas appliances.
I would suggest that anyone looking to rent should ask about the age and condition of the electrics and whether or not MCB and RCD are installed.
And... ask to see a copy of the latest gas certificate!
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Thu 25 Aug 11 at 09:24
|
There is no requirement for inspection/testing of electrics in a property in E&W. (Unless it is an HMO, and I don't know if the rules are different in Scotland.)
Rattle:
1. Spark looking for work
2. Diversity (google it) means you won't be running all the sub-circuits at maximum power.
3. If landlord is happy to pay for the upgrades, why stop him? It is, indubitably, safer for your sister.
|
You can upgrade Wylex Fuse box to Circuit Breaker - about £10.00 per CB unit and they come in at least 3x ratings.
Each CB unit replaces the fuse - takes about 30 mins to do as each fuse holder in the fuse box has to be replaced and then the CB installed.
|
I have a Wylex box fitted was in the house 15 yrs back and still fine all but one have fuses the cooker is on a cb as fitted by myself, it's not over loaded and will continue till something fails.
New houses get cb's fitted and if anything like my mates new house it trips when the washer and sepperate drier are on together, poor quality.
|
I recently changed to MCBs purchased at Screwfix for a similar price.
Once power is off, in turn pull, fuse, undo one screw to remove fuse holder, One screw to attach MCB holder and plug in MCB, job done
Repeat as required. 30 mins includes tea break :-)
|
T|he trouble is replacing fuses with MCBs does not actually make it any safer. (OK maybe it is safer if you are in the habit of replacing fusewire with nails :) ) However it allows people who do not understand to just keep resetting without understanding that there is a dangerous underlying serious problem.
The inclusion of RCD(s) actually saves lives in a compliant installation.
PS both improvements requires Part P certification.
Too many people do not understand the basics!
Last edited by: pmh on Thu 25 Aug 11 at 14:03
|
>>OK maybe it is safer if you are in the habit of replacing fusewire with nails :)
That is where the interim solution, cartridge fuses in the consumer unit, scored and with the added benefit of speedy replacement.
>>there is a dangerous underlying serious problem.
...Unless it is a bulb popping which is not an unknown situation in my household.
>>
>>Too many people do not understand the basics!
I agree.
|
Talking of the basics what exactly is electricity? It is often described as a flow of electrons but how does it flow? It can't be like water with an electron entering the wire at the power station and popping out of the TV plug at the the other.
Can someone explain in simple terms what it is?
|
>>Too many people do not understand the basics!
Slight drift, but about three years ago an electrician told me that he was on the receiving end of a severe belt while mowing his wet lawn, despite using an RCD socket.
|
>> >>Too many people do not understand the basics!
>>
>> Slight drift, but about three years ago an electrician told me that he was on
>> the receiving end of a severe belt while mowing his wet lawn, despite using an
>> RCD socket.
>>
But the key thing was he lived to tell you the tale.
IIRC RCDs prevent you getting a lethal shock.
|
The only times our fuse has blown was ]
1) When my dad cut through a wire
2) When a faulty dimmer blew the lighting circuit. Was an easy diagnoses as my sister heared a pop from the dimmer before it blew.
However as soon as a fuse blows for no apparent reason that is when I will get the sparks in to check it all.
|
>>But the key thing was he lived to tell you the tale.<<
Agreed!
>>IIRC RCDs prevent you getting a lethal shock.<<
Minimise the risk of a fatal shock to a healthy and fit normal person - is probably a better statement.
Remember it also assumes that that the RCD trips within specified time. The simple 'Test button' can only check operating current not speed of tripping.
If he was surprised by it, I am sure that I would not use his services as an electrician!
Last edited by: pmh on Thu 25 Aug 11 at 14:55
|
>> RCDs......Minimise the risk of a fatal shock to a healthy and fit normal person - is probably a better statement.
I agree .Thanks for that improved statement.
|
>> Slight drift, but about three years ago an electrician told me that he was on
>> the receiving end of a severe belt while mowing his wet lawn, despite using an
>> RCD socket.
Pink fluffer. They don't prevent you from getting a shock, merely from the shock killing you.
That's why RCDs are dangerous. He'd never have tried doing that if he'd not been using one.
|
Wiring regulations in rented property - Stuu
