Friends own a holday chalet in a rural area of the UK that thay let out. It has no mobile 'phone reception, although a signal can be picked up within a hundred yards or so.
Is there any kit they can install for the covenience of holidaymakers that will boost the mobile 'phone signal across most networks such that they can use mobiles within the chalet?
Last edited by: Webmaster on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 13:14
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Have to say, no mobile phone reception would actually sell it to me ! Bliss !
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>> Is there any kit they can install for the covenience of holidaymakers that will boost
>> the mobile 'phone signal across most networks such that they can use mobiles within the
>> chalet?
No.
In the US you can buy mini repeaters, but they are not legal over here. There are plenty of so called "passive" devices but none of them work as they need a signal.
I am assuming they have no landline or internet in the chalet.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 20 Aug 11 at 10:48
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I'm looking at this in a slightly different way...
As Humph said, not being disturbed by calls, is heaven when trying to chill.
But, the fact that a signal is only 100 yards away, means that you aren't totally cut off from the outside world.
My answer?
Switch on your messaging service, and occasionally go for a short walk, to confirm all is well with your family, friends etc.
Best of both worlds IMHO.
In fact that's just reminded me of a weekend I spent in the Peaks... No mobile signal, until I was on top of Mam Tor...
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sat 20 Aug 11 at 11:39
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Does Focus on here not make femtocells?
Need a broadband connection in the chalet though.
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>> Need a broadband connection in the chalet though.
Nah, a case of decent wine, a fridge full of steak, a grateful Lithuanian model, no phone and endless games of Strip-Scrabble would be fine.
:-)
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>> and endless games of Strip-Scrabble would be fine.
Sometimes you let your age betray you Humph... you had me until scrabble...!
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>> Does Focus on here not make femtocells?
Yep, admittedly with a bit of help from a few others at Picochip in Bath. We supply the chips, low level software and boxes to Alcatel-Lucent who supply Vodafone who sell them as the Sure Signal. As you say, a broadband connection is required, and I guess it's not much use if your phone isn't on Vodafone.
www.vodafone.co.uk/personal/price-plans/network-and-coverage/sure-signal/
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I thought they were illegal, maybe they are or not but this might work
mobilerepeater.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=17&products_id=50&osCsid=c52d0cee042d5959097f6452a1c7a26d
Now the problem is you have no signal at the chalet so it cant boost it. Now I bet there is a signal, and if it were me I would buy one of these, and put the external aerial on the roof on the top of a two metre pole.
I bet that would get signal.
Not that i would bother, I would sell the lack of signal as a bonus.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 21 Aug 11 at 10:02
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As a general rule anything that transmits needs a licence in the UK.
Obviously not a phone itself, but UK rules on transmitting must be among the tightest in the world. There are bands for low power devices that don't need a licence, ie your WiFi, or wireless doorbell but I really doubt these things are included. Licence is not mentioned in FAQ on website - wonder why!
But, I think your chances of being caught - unless the device goes silly and interferes with air control etc is next to nil.
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>> I thought they were illegal, maybe they are or not but this might work
>>
>> mobilerepeater.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=17&products_id=50&osCsid=c52d0cee042d5959097f6452a1c7a26d
>>
99.9% sure that's illegal for use in the UK, but would probably do the trick used as you suggested, indeed I've recommended similar gear for the same situation in other countries with somewhat laxer laws/enforecement concerning RF transmitters - last one was a hunting lodge in Kenya IIRC.
The 55-60 dB gain quoted will make it a nightmare to set up mind you, if the thing starts oscillating the network operators will notice and you would get a big slap from OFCOM or whoever.
As Focus points out Femtos need broadband and are network operator specific, mine continues to fall over if I start uploading significant amounts of data over my BB, I'm wondering if I can prioritise data packets from the femto somehow.
So no legal fix I can think of.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Sun 21 Aug 11 at 13:10
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>> The 55-60 dB gain quoted will make it a nightmare to set up mind you,
>> if the thing starts oscillating the network operators will notice and you would get a
>> big slap from OFCOM or whoever.
yeah, the gain is too much and the effective broadcast area is too big. I would take off the stubby rubber duck TX aerial, and put in a length of coax with an attenuator. or 5.
Minimum gain and minimum effective area is the goal.
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>> I thought they were illegal, maybe they are or not but this might work
>>
>> mobilerepeater.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=17&products_id=50&osCsid=c52d0cee042d5959097f6452a1c7a26d
>>
Just looked at the FAQ for that, includes the gem:-
"There is no technical expertise required to install your mobile repeater kit"
LOL. even the pros often have problems getting high gain repeaters working reliably.
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...Vodafone sure-signal...
Orange has a different approach to piggybacking a broadband signal - no box required.
help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/446533
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>> ...Vodafone sure-signal...
>>
>> Orange has a different approach to piggybacking a broadband signal - no box required.
>>
>> help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/446533
Nothing different about that, its just VOIP, plus you would still need broadband at the chalet.
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>> plus you would still need broadband at the chalet.
And of course a phone that has Wifi hardware, and supports UMA (my previous Nokia/Orange work phone had the former but not the latter).
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Not many UMA phones around still, even 5 years after the first ones were released. In some ways better than the femto approach (no extra consumer hardware for starters), maybe it'll go somewhere now WiFi smartphones are common.
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>> In some ways better than the femto approach
The femto cell approach will support a number of handsets and these could even include old 2G style ones. And if you want to swap phone you don't have to worry about it supporting UMA.
I guess if you're on Orange and don't mind the phones on offer then UWA is okay. Likewise for Vodafone with the Sure Signal and it supporting any phone on the Vodafone network (as long as its registered with the Sure Signal).
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 21 Aug 11 at 21:33
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>>
>> I guess if you're on Orange and don't mind the phones on offer then UWA
>> is okay. Likewise for Vodafone with the Sure Signal and it supporting any phone on
>> the Vodafone network (as long as its registered with the Sure Signal).
>>
Any 3G Vodafone phone, SWMBO's basic Nokia is 2G only, although she doesn't seem to have noticed that unlike me and Spamette Minor she doesn't get 5 bars everywhere in the house. 2G femtos were developed but i'm not sure how many have actually been released in big numbers.
Not sure what the reliability of UMA is like, OK it's just VoIP, but needs to handover to and from 2G/3G, which sounds like a protocol stack nightmare.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Sun 21 Aug 11 at 22:12
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>> Any 3G Vodafone phone
good point :)
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Sometimes when I can't get a signal I find that moving upstairs, or a few yards away, or uphill, and there is a good signal.
This suggests that in some cases at least height alone would solve the problem. Why can't phones just have a a socket for an extension aerial?
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they used to have. 5100's had an aerial socket for use in the car kit. The old nokia interface standard plug used to have one as well.
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I feel an invention coming on:
You carry a small box in your pocket which on activation will inflate and release a tiny Helium balloon. It is attached to a fine wire, several hundred yards long, the other end of which you plug into the mobile phone aerial socket.
So you could get reception anywhere if it was really important.
Always obey the countryside code. Real- in phone aerial extensions after use, do not release.
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>>Always obey the countryside code. Real- in phone aerial extensions after use, do not release. <<
Supplied with health warning stickers for
Do NOT use during electrical storms.
Do not use on the flight path to the local aerodrome.
-otherwise rural peace maybe much disturbed:)
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The Nokia 6310i also has an aerial socket on the back. So did the 6310, 6210, 5110 and the 2110.
Of these, apart from the 2110, they all fitted in the same car kits.
Then phones were updated and released all the time. And came in all sort of shapes and sizes. So it was not practical to have a connector on the back. And most people didn't use a car kit.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 10:38
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>> The Nokia 6310i also has an aerial socket on the back. So did the 6310,
>> 6210, 5110 and the 2110.
>>
>> Of these, apart from the 2110, they all fitted in the same car kits.
>>
CARK91.... Sold loads in my day....
europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/car-solutions/car-kits/nokia-car-kit-cark-91
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I have a THB Bury Universal 8 car kit. It came with a cradle that was for the 6310 etc. I then replaced it for the 6230 cradle. Then N70 and now e51. Same car kit. Well actually the car kit was replaced when I got the current car but the other worked fine.
This one is going to be left in the Mazda6 as it costs to take out and I won't need it.
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>> I have a THB Bury Universal 8 car kit. It came with a cradle that
>> was for the 6310 etc. I then replaced it for the 6230 cradle. Then N70
>> and now e51. Same car kit.
That's the same as triggers broom.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbha4XclSMU
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:-)
Apart from a new car kit being fitted to the Mazda6 in 2007 by the engineer who brought one (I had a working one), the cradles were all that needed swapping. If I had an iPhone there's a cradle for that too. And Bluetooth cradles etc.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 22:55
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>> Sometimes when I can't get a signal I find that moving upstairs, or a few
>> yards away, or uphill, and there is a good signal.
>> This suggests that in some cases at least height alone would solve the problem. Why
>> can't phones just have a a socket for an extension aerial?
>>
The behaviour of radio signals is very difficult to predict with metre level accuracy, but as a general rule of thumb height will often help.
As Mr. Z. says the 5100/6100/7100 Nokias had an external access point for the aerial, for use with car kits, but they've pretty much totally died out now, indeed accessing an aerial connection at PCB level inside the phone is often tricky these days. Presumably there wasn't enough demand to keep an external connection.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 10:38
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I have a car kit and it has a tax disc aerial fitted. I have the cradle for a few phones including the 6310 which supports an aerial. But most phones don't have aerial connections so what's the point of the aerial on the car kit :-)
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Did a quick google and my car kit supports an inductive aerial which apparently helps... if this is the case, couldn't something similar be used to improve reception of a mobile in a poor reception area?
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>> Did a quick google and my car kit supports an inductive aerial which apparently helps...
>> if this is the case, couldn't something similar be used to improve reception of a
>> mobile in a poor reception area?
>>
That would pretty much be a passive repeater, which is at least legal I think. Basically you have two aerials (an inductive loop is effectively an aerial); one to pick up the low level signal from the network and one connected pretty much directly to it to re-transmit the signal to the mobile.
This can be made to work sometimes, by using a relatively high gain, directional aerial pointed at the cell site, and a moderate gain aerial inside the house to give at least some coverage. You need to screen the two aerials from each other (ideally use the high gain one outside, then a short cable through a wall to the other aerial).
The aerial inside the phone has to receive and transmit signals in all directions, so its ability to pick up weak signals is compromised; the passive repeater method I've described tries to overcome this limitation by focussing the signals to/from a cell site in one direction.
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Thank you webmaster for imptoving the initial title of this thread.
My excuse was it was typed on a keyboard so filthy I couldn't see the characters.
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My home office is in the cellar where these is no mobile phone reception and I needed to be able to receive and make calls on my business mobile number.
I solved this problem by buying an old in car GSM phone setup from eBay which lives on my desk and is connected to a GSM car aerial fitted half way up the drain pipe on the outside of the building. It's powered from an old laptop power supply and the arrangement works astonishingly well.
I have the Multi-SIM service from T-Mobile so I just leave one of the SIMs permanently plugged in for when I work from home.
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This is where my mind was going - using a car kit at home. But it doesn't work for the OP because they want to improve mobile phone reception at their holiday accommodation. So there is no knowing what phone or even mobile network a guest would be using.
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But you could provide a set up (a la Bagpuss) where they transfer their SIM if they felt so inclined.
Last edited by: pmh on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 15:53
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Maybe use a more modern car phone kit with blue tooth?
Big advantage of this setup for me was the cost. I think altogether the bits cost around 40 Euros. The phone itself was originally factory fitted to a late 90s Volvo V70 according to the seller.
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The idea of a chalet rented out to the public is to make it universal for the renters. Lashups don't cut it.
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Agree with others, no mobile is a feature. Be upfront about it and explain where signal can be had should the guests want it. We've stayed several times at a place on Lewis where the owner does exactly that. There's a landline for incoming calls, guests can use it on basis he'll bill them for calls over £1.
If the kids wanted to text their mates they had to walk up the road and climb a small mound from where Stornoway was in line of site. Most of the holidays it was a pleasant evening walk.
When we went in December for my 50th and it snowed they didn't bother!!
Odd thing there was that upstairs, facing the mainland, Orange phones showed 5 bars of signal but still no calls. Suspect they could see a base station somewhere round Ullapool or Lochinver but phones output too weedy to establish two way contact.
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>> Odd thing there was that upstairs, facing the mainland, Orange phones showed 5 bars of
>> signal but still no calls
Not odd at all. The phone picked up a signal from a mast on another network. It could be used for emergency calls only.
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>> Maybe use a more modern car phone kit with blue tooth?
Unless your car kit and the mobile supports the Bluetooth SIM profile then this would make no difference. If you have a Bluetooth car kit it is simply providing a connection for mic and speakers using either the handsfree or headset profiles. The phone itself is still handling the call.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 17:15
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Just spotted that the Samsung Galaxy S has an MCX connector on the back of the phone for an external aerial :-) You'd have to take the back cover off to use it or drill a hole though.
I bet no other maker of smartphones has a connector for an external aerial.
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imptoving mobile 'phone reception - Runfer D'Hills
