***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 4 *****
Ongoing debate about the ongoing riots.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 10 Aug 11 at 00:35
|
Two thoughts about UK policing organisation:
1) Why is it nonsense to appoint a foreigner to a top police job? For decades we exported British-style policing to the rest of the world, with British-trained personnel serving in colonial and empire forces. Why are we so arrogant as to think we have nothing to learn in reverse?
2) I agree that the time for a single unified force has probably come. But perhaps the police should be divided into two kinds:
a) locally organised and recruited old-style bobbies, for routine small-scale matters
b) a national force with para-military training, to be brought in if any situation threatened to get out of hand. A symbolic reading of the Riot Act would give a clear indication that the line was about to be crossed, beyond which a tougher response would be unleashed.
|
Cliff your suggestion is similar to what is in place in other countries like Italy. The military police also server overseas in a military policing role.
I hope the debate in parliament clears up what the police can do in response. Damned if they do and damned if they don't at the moment. As you say, make it clear that if they cross the line that has been defined that a tough response will be coming.
|
|
26 year old man shot in Croydon last night has now died. I hadn't realised someone had been shot... so now they are shooting each other!
|
I was surprised to see a young police woman in riot gear.Maybe I'm getting older but it did shock me.
Off the point I was looking forward to the England Netherland match never mind.
|
If my two kids ever behaved like the animals on TV, then,.... well they wouldn't because they know how disappointed Mrs Z and I would be and that is enough for them to know how far they can go, or not.
We also know where our kids are and who they are with. What are parents like if they don't know where their kids are and what they are doing!
Perhaps it is time for a curfew?
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 13:17
|
|
Are the police not being as proactive as they can because of the cuts to their pensions, pay etc?
|
>> Are the police not being as proactive as they can because of the cuts to
>> their pensions, pay etc?
>>
Zippy! really! The Police are not perfect - no group is - but they are a very professional force and I think they have done well within the constraints of manpower and doctrine that they are under.
If you had a friendly chat with an officer off the record, I'm pretty sure that they would tell you that they would like to be more "energetic".
I don't believe that they are thinking about pensions when faced with these feral nomarks - just raw personal survival.
|
What does surprise me how the police got caught out in London a massive city.
If this is a forerunner of things to come we have to rely on ourself.
|
>> If this is a forerunner of things to come we have to rely on ourself.
>>
You mean like the Turkish community did on Saturday night?
The rioters were working down Wood Green High Road, but got no further than Turnpike Lane. Turkish guys were out in force to protect Turkish owned businesses further on down the High Road.
Technically it's vigilante-style activity, but what are the poor Turks to do - just submit tamely?
|
I would have done the same.I will protect my family if needed.
In situations like this no choice.
|
Do you mind me asking do you live far from the troubles Londoner.?
Hope you all live in London are ok .
|
>> Do you mind me asking do you live far from the troubles Londoner.?
>>
Not far enough, Dutchie. The rioters were round the corner from me yesterday night, at a trading estate. The lure of two electrical stores and a bike shop was too much for them, poor lambs!
Understandably, my opinion towards them has hardened somewhat.
Thanks for your kind wishes.
|
>> Technically it's vigilante-style activity, but what are the poor Turks to do - just submit tamely?
No. They are doing the right thing. It only becomes vigilantism if it becomes proactive or aggressive. Defence, even with baseball bats or anything else to hand, is perfectly reasonable (if risky given plod's sometimes counter-productive impartiality).
Whether through new legislation, poor morale or bad leadership, the Met seems distinctly less good at suppressing or containing riots than it was in the early eighties (when similarly doom-laden headlines were seen across the country). The presence of sightseeing or curious 'innocent bystanders' is a real problem for the police though. Personally I wouldn't be too shocked by the use of tear gas to send them running and allow the dog, so to speak, to see the rabbit. Photograph people, pull them and charge them when appropriate with violent disorder. That is what they used to do, but without the tear gas.
This stupid trashing and ugly graceless thieving depresses the hell out of me, just as it did last time thirty years ago. Of course it's bad in itself, and of course it gives easy ammo to those whose instinct is to diabolize and exclude, in an openly nazi manner, an easily identifiable social group which can be blamed for everything.
For a pretty decent piece of background analysis, see Mary Riddell on p 20 of today's Terrorflag, having passed rapidly over the somewhat tabloid front-page lead. No one remotely thoughtful will be disappointed. Ms Riddell is good, very good.
|
The Thin Blue Line is thin indeed.
I spoke to a copper in Durham City a year or two ago who told me just how limited the resources are, particularly late at night.
Durham City's North Road is known for its weekend drunken violence, a local councillor once called it Dodge City.
The copper told me that if I ever found myself being filled in, the best approach is to assume you are on your own, and regard any help from the police as a bonus.
|
Oh, and by the way: on the london map literally covered in little explosions to whow when and where there had been riots, I saw to my surprise that something was supposed to have happened in Notting Hill while I was there (passed through Portobello Road, or part of it, twice in the course of the evening and didn't see a sign of anything). Perhaps some yobbos had walked down the street making a noise and chucking bottles, as they often do alas.
Take suggestions that the whole of black London was in civil disorder last night with several grains of salt. Needless to say the press is milking this for all it's worth. Even some of the people here are milking it, and they aren't even the press.
|
>> For a pretty decent piece of background analysis, see Mary Riddell on p 20 of
>> today's Terrorflag, having passed rapidly over the somewhat tabloid front-page lead. No one remotely thoughtful
>> will be disappointed. Ms Riddell is good, very good.
Ms Riddle is a pinko lefty.
|
>> Ms Riddle is a pinko lefty.
Ms Riddell is clearly nothing of the sort Roger, although that wouldn't matter much to a self-declared reactionary. She does have the sense though to understand that boorish and essentially thuggish - or in a word, reactionary - attitudes or objective behaviour on one level at the 'top' are certain to breed boorish and essentially thuggish attitudes or behaviour on another level at the 'bottom'. Never mind though. You'll learn, with luck.
As for poor old madf, seeing Mary Riddell and her ilk as the cause of the problem, he seems to be living up to his handle again. There there madf.
|
Lots of people being sent home from work early and lots of shops have shut early in the city centre. Lots of reports of the city centre being full riot cops but so far no trouble. It is all precaution.
|
All these "commentators" and "writers" are just showing their complete ignorance of the causes.*
There is no cause, poverty, hardship, unjust treatment, none of this crap. They are showing they have no idea of what runs through youth brain.
This is stuff is being done for kicks. Believe it or not, its exciting to be involved in this kind of thing, there is a buzz, a high, an energy in rioting, looting, arson, and running with the crowd turns off your inhibitors - its infectious. Root cause? there isn't one. Opportunity kicked it off and it gets a life of its own,
* Still they will be delighted they can spout off their ill informed crap. They have an audience for a short while.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 16:54
|
>> This is stuff is being done for kicks. ...Opportunity kicked it off and it gets a life of its own,
Heh heh... you are largely right about the dynamic Zero. But wrong I think to dismiss underlying social and economic conditions out of hand as you do.
|
>> As for poor old madf, seeing Mary Riddell and her ilk as the cause of
>> the problem, he seems to be living up to his handle again. There there madf.
>>
>>
>>
She (and others of her ilk) has for years been blaming the system and the government for everything and ignoring personal responsibility of the individual and their parents...
Sorry to hear you don't think personal responsibility means anything and rioters are individually blameless...
|
|
She doesn't say that or anything like it.
|
She said:
"They are the proof that a section of young Britain โ the stabbers, shooters, looters, chancers and their frightened acolytes โ has fallen off the cliff-edge of a crumbling nation.
The failure of the markets goes hand in hand with human blight. Meanwhile, the view is gaining ground that social democracy, with its safety nets, its costly education and health care for all, is unsustainable in the bleak times ahead. The reality is that it is the only solution. After the Great Crash, Britain recalibrated, for a time. Income differentials fell, the welfare state was born and skills and growth increased. "
So it's everyone's fault but the rioters... So we need to spend more money on them...
She also says "One of the most tragic aspects of Londonโs meltdowns is that we need this ruined generation if Britain is ever to feel prosperous and safe again. If there are no jobs for todayโs malcontents and no means to exploit their skills, then the UK is in graver trouble than it thinks. Mr Osborne may congratulate himself on his prudence, but retrenchment also bears a social cost. We are seeing just how steep that price may be. "
Strangley enough I was listening to Radio 4 at 5:30pm dealing with the court cases of those arrested for riot and burgalry... a substantial number were EMPLOYED..
"Malcontents' skills " she says.. They have jobs...
|
>> >> For a pretty decent piece of background analysis, see Mary Riddell on p 20 of
>> today's Terrorflag, having passed rapidly over the somewhat tabloid front-page lead. No one remotely thoughtful
>> will be disappointed. Ms Riddell is good, very good.
>>
>>
I read that article. I could have written it for her lasy year. Totally predictable and largely wrong. She epitomises the "spend money on people and it will solve the problem .. and if not, spend more" attitude.
Did she ever think personal responsibility and bad parenting might be an issue? She did not mention it.
She and her ilk are part of the cause of the problem.. Blame others, accept no repsonsibility for personal behaviour. Typical polemicist.
|
I am sorry, I did not mean it as a general criticism of the police but of those cutting their pay and pensions, but I see how it came across. Just, with everything else, and the Tomlinson affair, they must be thinking, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't and there must be a case of this, and some officers may be thinking "on top of all this, making my sergeant redundant because he reached x years of service even though we really need his experience now! "
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 14:54
|
Just responding to you AC from previous thread.
"What you don't like, X, is any suggestion that black people might not all be rioting, idle, badly-behaved youths. Your original post, and everything you have posted since, is an Alf Garnett-like rant. About black people."
Alf Garnett wasn't married to a black person. He didn't have mixed race kids. So you are wrong my friend.
My wife is of colour and my kids are both mixed race. And they have respect for authority and others and make me proud.
|
>> My wife is of colour and my kids are both mixed race. And they have respect for authority and others and make me proud.
As do the children of my old black friends Mr X.
However I am very sorry that I misunderstood your position. Perhaps it resembles that of some of my older black friends whose utterances both for and against the rioters are often as intemperate as yours. I apologise for the Alf Garnett jibe.
|
So Parliament is being recalled so that they can all join together and condemn the riots.
Mmm that will really solve the problem. No looting tonight guys, parliament is back!!
Only worth recalling if it is to push through some emergency legislation of some sort.
|
I heard some fool saying they were rioting because 'we hate the rich'.
Yes because mugging people and breaking into a family home is such a statement.
|
Just heard from a friend that there has been a call to a disturbance in Manchester city centre, the police don't know anything much beyond that at this point. It could be anything but I am hoping it is nothing more than a few drunken chavs and nothing to with the riots.
A few cars were set on fire in Salford last night, but it is Salford it happens every night there!
|
Our son lived in Salford for six months very depressing area what whent wrong there?
Talking on skype to our son in New Zealand he mentioned they expect a lot more trouble.
Jan used to live in Fulham used to be a housing officer for the mentally ill (drug problems etc.
He was talking to some of his friends and on the grapevine more riots are planned.
The situation wants to calm down.
|
|
Not all of Salford is bad, but it does have bad parts. Problems of Salford are just the usual problems which affect most innercities. Although Salford is a city in its own right, it is right next to Manchester city centre, so you get a lot of the usual urban problems.
|
|
My facebook has now gone into over drive, reports of people being send home from work from the city centre.
|
>> No probs.
Dunnu, got my doubts.
"My wife is of colour" That's a pretty strange phrase. Take my Sister in Law, married to a black bloke with mixed race kids. If pressed, she says "I am married to a black bloke." Some of his brothers are married to white girls with mixed race kids. Ditto they would say "I am married to a white girl" No one is ashamed enough of their colour (as opposed to race) to not spell it out, in black or white, if asked.
Same with FoR, Understand his sister is married to an Indian bloke. Seems to me when asked she comes right out with it and says " I am married to an Indian fella" Not "I am married to a man of colour"
So as far as Mr X goes That's either a very strange attitude or is not factual. One or t'other. ME I would have said I am married to a Black/mixed race/indian/Asian/etc girl. Been up front with with it, proud. "Of colour" sounds slightly sinister.
As it is I am married to a mixed race girl. Half welsh.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 16:21
|
|
"Of Colour" is the USA usage to prevent one from offending the troublemakers who do not like the use of the word black. A similar affectation has come into sports commentary in Uk where "John Smith is 24 years of age" seems to be used instead of "John Smith is 24 years old"
|
>> "Of colour" sounds slightly sinister.
I used the expression here before Mr X did Zeddo. It wasn't meant to be sinister, just shorthand.
Mr X referred recently to a much-respected Indian connection.
|
very well, I retract my assertion.
Still a stupid phrase tho.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 16:35
|
Just had a call from my 85 year old mother in law who was shopping in the town centre supermarket (we live in a small south Kent coast town).
At 4:00 PM the police arrived en-mass and closed the place down telling all the shoppers to head straight home as they are expecting trouble.
She gave the "I survived being bombed" speech to a young police woman who pointed her to a waiting taxi. (She did, btw, the house crumbled behind her as she stepped in to the garden.)
I suspect the truth is that most of the local bobbies are heading off to the Smoke and want the local town centre as quiet as possible for the skeleton team left behind.
|
>> most of the local bobbies are heading off to the Smoke
Yes, it's appalling. They call each other on their Blackberries to arrange the next outrage. I blame technology.
:o}
|
I must admit seeing one of the Twitter things copied elsewhere and wondered if the poster could be done for incitement, but the language was so dreadful that it would probably be thrown out of court for being unintelligible!
|
|
Same is happening in Manchester, lots of people being sent home, but so far no trouble.
|
|
I'm treating the nippers to a day at Cadbury World tomorrow. No looting in Bourneville, although I might have to approach it circuitously if the main access routes into Brum are closed.
|
|
I thinks that is far enough out of the City centre to be chav free Dave
|
>>I'm treating the nippers to a day at Cadbury World tomorrow. No looting in Bourneville, although I might have to approach it circuitously if the main access routes into Brum are closed.
Great place. Especially the make your own bit in the shop at the end.
Mine still talk about it and it must be six years ago that we went!
|
>> I'm treating the nippers to a day at Cadbury World tomorrow. No looting in Bourneville,
Get my wife in a chocolate factory and she will show you what looting and rioting is all about.,
>> although I might have to approach it circuitously if the main access routes into Brum
>> are closed.
Come in at the bottom, from the M42, that's the fastest route anyway.,
|
>> Come in at the bottom, from the M42, that's the fastest route anyway.
I probably will, although I've done lots of multi drop around Brum in the past so I know enough alternatives if the '42 has any inverted caravans on it in the morning.
|
Some old-fashioned policing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y
Constable Savage.
|
The BBC News ticker has this:
1729: The Independent Police Complaints commission says ballistic test results so far show no evidence that a handgun found at the scene of the fatal police shooting of Mark Duggan had been fired. It says the Forensic Science Service is carrying out further tests to confirm this.
1732: The IPCC says the Forensic Science Service has also confirmed that the bullet lodged in a police radio was police issue and consistent with being fired from a police gun.
I think the deployment of 16,000-odd police in London tonight was made with this knowledge in mind :(
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 17:40
|
|
Dunno if anyone saw Newsnight last night but there was an interview with a guy called Darcus Howe, seems to have a strong enough CV on Wiki including some er....parenting issues"..?
|
|
Darcus Howe has many axes to grind, Darcus Howe wouldnt be happy till Darcus Howe was in charge. The man see's racist behaviour as soon as he finds out that newspapers are printed with black ink on white paper.
|
As I understand it, the insurance companies are livid that the police did not stop the riot and apparently just stood by. They now intend to claim back their costs from the Govt (us).
|
Nick Starling, the Director of general insurance at the Association of British Insurers has urged all individuals and businesses affected by the rioting to contact their insurance companies as soon as possible.
But many residents and businesses are unsure of where they stand in terms of cover for the damage to property and theft or destruction of goods and personal property. So, where do you stand if you are a business, homeowner or an individual affected by the riots?
The Association of British Insurers has said today that most households and business owners whose property has been damaged or destroyed by rioters should be covered by their insurance policies. The body says that home insurance policies should cover damage and loss caused by fire and looting and that the cost of alternative accommodation is likely to be covered.
|
>>Darcus Howe has many axes to grind, Darcus Howe wouldnt be happy till Darcus Howe was in charge. The man see's racist behaviour as soon as he finds out that newspapers are printed with black ink on white paper. <<
+1
|
"They now intend to claim back their costs from the Govt (us)."
It has always been the case, well since 1886 anyway, that the police authority are liable for damages caused by riot. The cost of the lot will certainly fall on the taxpayer
Riot Damages Act 1886.
(1)Where a house, shop, or building has been injured or destroyed, or the property therein has been injured, stolen, or destroyed, by any persons riotously and tumultuously assembled together, such compensation as hereinafter mentioned shall be paid out of the police fund of the area to any person who has sustained loss by such injury, stealing, or destruction; but in fixing the amount of such compensation regard shall be had to the conduct of the said person, whether as respects the precautions taken by him or as respects his being a party or accessory to such riotous or tumultuous assembly, or as regards any provocation offered to the persons assembled or otherwise.
(2)Where any person having sustained such loss as aforesaid has received, by way of insurance or otherwise, any sum to recoup him, in whole or in part, for such loss, the compensation otherwise payable to him under this Act shall, if exceeding such sum, be reduced by the amount thereof, and in any other case shall not be paid to him, and the payer of such sum shall be entitled to compensation under this Act in respect of the sum so paid in like manner as if he had sustained the said loss, and any policy of insurance given by such payer shall continue in force as if he had made no such payment, and where such person was recouped as aforesaid otherwise than by payment of a sum, this enactment shall apply as if the value of such recoupment were a sum paid.
|
>> The man see's racist behaviour as soon as he finds out that newspapers are printed with black ink on white paper.
You're exaggerating a bit Zero. But he is a tabloid journalist, TV quite often, who like others doesn't allow strict accuracy or kind-heartedness to spoil a good shock-horror story... I've had a couple of mild arguments with him over the years actually. One was when he had a TV series examining issues of the moment. He gave the Rastafarians a very unkind, bullying TV-man's drubbing in one of those programmes, using as his main Rasta spokesman a character who was pretty inarticulate and struck dumb with terror by the cold, glaring eyes of the cameras and crew (as many are). Being in the same room as him not long afterwards I took him to task for it. He had the grace to look very slightly shamefaced and make the lame excuse that that guy was the only one he could get.
He has been campaigning for better prostate cancer screening for black men, more susceptible to the disease than the population at large it seems. He is himself a sufferer.
|
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452
This is the first article I have seen that, in my opinion and experience, just about gets into the reasons for the arson, the looting and the rioting.
I noted that a significant proportion of those arrested are in work, college and careers.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 19:40
|
...I noted that a significant proportion of those arrested are in work, college and careers...
Reminds me of West Ham's Inter-City Firm in the good old days of footie hooliganism. :)
On a positive note, twitter has at last been used for something worthwhile:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857
|
Scores of small independent labels may have lost their complete stock which was held in, and distributed from, Sony's Enfield warehouse.
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c2299f28-c289-11e0-9ede-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1UYjvnEFa
|
Now in shock, many people are being evacuated from work, my dad included and had to give a few of his colleagues lifts because buses have stopped running.
I have several friends who live close to the riot zone in Salford, and Manchester city centre it also in chaos, when it is so close to home it becomes a lot more real.
Just drive the 2.5 miles from Chorlton to Didsbury an hour ago, it took me 35 minutes, never seen the traffic so bad before.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 19:58
|
|
Oh dear Rattle. Salford is so close the Manchester it could easily move/spill over too!
|
I go hide the Panda or it might be a little charred in the morning.
Ah city life, everyday is bbq day.
|
|
Thankfully I live in a calm part of the city, I would be very surprised if it kicked off here apart from houses and a few shops there is nothing to really damage. My Panda is probably in one of the safest places of the city right now.
|
It has been kicking of in Manchester since 4:00. It is worse in Salford, but there is fires and major damage in the city centre too.
No public transport going into the city centre, not sure about trains buses are affected and all trams have been cancelled. I've been following this all afternoon and have got the impression that the police have been playing it all done in order not to entice any trouble.
Just got an update from one of my Salford mates, he is trapped and can't leave the house.
|
Another night of fun and games.
I have it on good authority that an attack is suspected in Northampton bus station at the weekend, they are on alert for it apparently and laughably, Wellingborough.
|
|
Lidl is on fire in Salford according to a mates sister, she can see it out the window, she said alot of youths about.
|
|
Not before they'd nicked the Crabbie's (which is on offer)
|
|
Classy the northern mobs, the London ones loot Debenhams, and the lot from Manchester loot Lidl!
|
From what I can gather a the damage in Manchester is nothing of the scale of the London ones, but Salford is pretty bad at the moment.
The main aim of the Manchester seems to just be organised shop lifting rather than trying to torch the place.
|
|
You can hardly talk, your southern mob have been looting primark!!
|
|
And they will still be better dressed than your northern lot.
|
Quite upset now, just seen pictures of some family owned business in the city centre all ramsacked and smashed up. These guys are finding life tough as it is, they don't need this.
|
|
I wonder if the BBC people are looking forward to moving to Salford now?
|
Like London hasn't been affected by the riots.....
|
|
Same in Croydon. A business run by 5 generations of the same family for 100 years has been burned to the ground. Refreshing to see the public spirited people who have got together to do a tidy up and to show the scum the way decent people want to live.
|
I don't think we need curfews...it inconveniences the vast majority of law abiding people. Neither do I think we should be restricting Blackberry messaging or Press coverage. We live in a free country, why should some thieving/violent low life reduce the freedoms of everyone else.
I do however think we should free ourselves of the manacles of political correctness and the serial hand wringing that this country has had for years..and 'say it as it is'. That isn't to say that we should blame totally one section of society, that would be wholly incorrect and plain wrong..but we should blame the sub-section of society responsible and encourage all to be ashamed of them and their serially low values.
Then more importantly, we need decent sentencing policies for this country, so that the lawless actually go away for long enough for it to be a deterrent to others and whilst in there, they cannot commit crime. At the moment there isn't a sufficient deterrent and those that commit crime get non custodial sentences, so they can keep on going
...and that's why crime is rising.
If some think that lack of education fuels this sort of thing...the despite my cynicism (being poor or disadvantaged doesn't make you a violent thief), then why not have a bit of discipline in schools as well, so that they have to learn things...who knows they might even become employable.
|
protest peacefully and you get kettled
cause a riot and you get plazma tv
i,l get me coat
|
>> i,l get me coat
Plenty going cheap on ebay right now, watch out for broken glass in the pockets tho.
|
zookeeper, with your poor spelling will you be rioting? Isn't it all about 'education'? :-)
If you get a Plasma make sure it's 3d capable and you get extra glasses. Sorry poor taste I know.
Looking at images of one store a lot of empty TV stands... so I'd be looking out for people buying TV stands to match their faces to images on film.
|
Lack of education and jobs hasn't caused this in recent years - so why now? They've used London as an excuse.
The morals of some of these is called into question - something has been wrong with our society for a long time now IMO.
With all that's going on in Manchester - I hope the two restaurants Tevez knows about are safe. Poor soul for coming back to all this. At least it gives him something to talk about on Argentinian TV again.
|
If some think that lack of education fuels this sort of thing...the despite my cynicism (being poor or disadvantaged doesn't make you a violent thief), then why not have a bit of discipline in schools as well, so that they have to learn things...who knows they might even become employable.
An excellent post Sir. (Only part shown here).
|
>>despite my cynicism (being poor or disadvantaged doesn't make you a violent thief), <<
Actually I think your on point there, its not cynical, its knowing whats right an wrong. Everyone has a choice about how they behave, this is a core point that cannot be underlined enough.
Bad people do bad things and you can grow old trying to make excuses for them, there are none, reasons perhaps, but no excuse in a civilised society.
|
Power.
There was a good quote on the BBC tonight, something along the lines of:
"going from feeling powerless, to suddenly feeling powerful, is very intoxicating"
I've no doubt that this is key to why so many get involved. The looting is not being done mainly for financial gain, it is to feel powerful, to feel that you are in charge for a bit.
Arson is an extreme case of this, shown in countless cases of forest fires, where some nobody who feels powerless and ignored, can suddenly bring the resources of a state to their knees, and get splashed over the global news, all for the price of a can of petrol and a box of matches.
There is little that can be done to change this dynamic. It is a cause of much day to day anti-social behaviour and rebellion (e.g. feeling like a somebody when in a gang intimidating people, or even just blasting out a car stereo to inconvenience others), and given the right platform (the momentum of these riots), can become much more.
Still, it is a very small number of people. Any kind of scheme (including educational), will miss a fraction of a percent of kids, and it is those very ones that get involved anyway.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 22:51
|
Trouble has hit Surrey now. Its all kicking off Reports care of the Surrey Comet.
Police in Kingston call arrested youth's parents
9:19pm Tuesday 9th August 2011
One youth has been arrested in Kingston on suspicion of carrying a balaclava, and his parents have been informed.
The incident happened near Fairfield Park moments ago, and one officer was heard to shout "you are not coming into Kingston with a balaclava".
Police at the scene phoned the youth's parents, who were not aware he was out and said to be very angry.
and
LIVE: Searches and arrests in Kingston town centre
9:59pm Tuesday 9th August 2011
By Louise Robertson ยป
22.20:
Police stop four motor scooters in Old London Road. Three allowed to leave but one questioned more extensively by police. No unrest in town, but police are searching any young people in the area.
22.00:
Police vans chase three motor scooters over Kingston Bridge.
21.50:
Police have pulled a baseball bat from a car stopped in Kingston town centre.
The maroon Volkswagen Golf, containing a number of youths, was stopped outside Bacchus nightclub in Union Street.
One man was in handcuffs as police inquired as to the owner of the bat.
|
I was in Piccadilly, Manchester at about 3.30pm and all seemed normal, although I took to the back streets to avoid the crowds.
I had to pick up a car not far behind Piccadilly and take it to Altrincham.
I caught the tram back, intending to change for my home line at Corbbrook but the 6 minute service had become over 30 mins and the passing trams for other destinations away from the city were absolutely packed...this would be around 5pm. Staff to cram folk in through the doors would have been useful.
My own tram, when it arrived , was standing room only. I guess it may have been the last but one before service was suspended, another following us into the terminus at home.
I have to go in again tomorrow, this time near Piccadilly Station, to collect another...and then back later to return them both
Miss Selfridge's was torched today and the jewellers and other shops in the 'posh' quarter, my old beat, looted.
Ted
|
|
Apparently we have Lancs police in Lancs police vans here in Surrey, and most of the Surrey force have been shipped into the Met.
|
|
Before I lock this thread for a new volume, I've heard that Spurs have just bought a new striker, From Italy, he's called Grabatelli.....I'll get my key
|
I wonder if we're being told everything.
I heard about this Wetherspoon's pub in Woolwich that went up last night, but haven't seen anything about it on the media. Can anyone confirm it was part of the riots?
I wonder what else we haven't been told?
tinyurl.com/3rvdm58
|
>> I was in Piccadilly, Manchester at about 3.30pm
Nottingham old market square for me, picking my son up from his mum about 3.00. "Nottingham By The Sea" event on. Walked past two groups of 8 police officers in the space of 200yds.
She told me later the fair closed down just after I left, and that the shops were closing up too as she waited for a bus home. A police station 500yds up the hill has been firebombed this evening, 8 arrests apparently.
|
As many of GMP's riot squad are in London, the Welsh police have been drafted in to help with operations in Manchester according to the MEN feed.
Some localised incidents in different areas but they are just minor. So far the main places affected seem to be London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Nottingham.
Seems to have only affected England so far.
|
|
North Wales and South Wakes PSUs are in the Met tonight.
|
With even small villages getting in on the act, it's only a matter of time before these disorders spread to Northern Ireland.
Heaven knows how the police will cope there, with nothing but clubs, pistols, tear gas, sub-machine guns, robber billets and water cannon to protect them. I fear for them.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 23:50
|
The news crews in Manchester were getting very bored with nothing much to report. Nothing much happening at all, and the poor hacks having to stand there and rabbit about it.
If they hadn't gone round sending people home from work at lunch time the local yobbos wouldn't have done anything at all. And as it was they didn't do much. Bunch of pansies if you ask me.
I blame the beer.
|
|
Heard a valid comment from a police officer that although they want to get tore in like the majority of society want them to, at the back of their mind they always have the fact that one of their colleagues is facing charges for the death of Ian Tomlinson.
|
Not for the first time I am glad to live in the boondocks. All quiet here in Trumpton. The WI meeting has finished, and the pub has sent its 6 customers home.
I feel for the many decent people affected. Livelihoods damaged or lost, fear for life and limb.
The behaviour of people sickens me. The police must surely want to get stuck in but will be desperate to avoid any accusations of brutality. Unfortunately there is really no option in the short term, or the long term for that matter, than to enforce the rule of law and the sooner that happens the better.
Tiptoeing around in a caring manner won't improve the conduct of the mob or the attitude of its apologists, so they might as well get on with it. Issue fair warning and haul in anybody in a hood when it's not raining.
|
The summer rioting season debate Volume 3 - Cliff Pope
