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Ongoing debate about the ongoing riots.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 12:46
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Panic on the streets of London, Panic on the streets of Birmingham and I wonder to myself. Could life ever be sane again? The Leeds side streets that you slip down and I wonder to myself.
As usual Morrissey predicted a true event. Although in his case the riots started because the music the DJ plays is crap.
Back to a serious note, where the hell if Cameron? If he doesn't get back of holiday his careerer will be badly damaged. We need a strong leader in times like this. Not some fool who says "let the police deal with it".
While I respect the rights for people to have a holiday, if you're prime minster one of the risks is that you may have to cut it short.
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>>where the hell if Cameron? If he doesn't get back of holiday his careerer will be badly damaged. We need a strong leader in times like this. Not some fool who says "let the police deal with it".<<
Give over Rattle, Clegg is about and he is no more or less useless than any other minster, what can Cameron do in person that he cant via phone? He isnt going to don riot gear is he?
I think you will find 'letting the police deal with it' is exactly what you do with a riot, its their job funny enough.
Showing leadership my eye, its not leadership from a man in a suit we need, its police on the streets sorting it out.
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1981 all over again, Nast new
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The media have inflamed this by reporting the 1981 riots in Liverpool, Brixton and Moss Side too much. In April and May all I saw in the papers was images of the Moss Side riots.
If I was PM I would fly back, just to send out a message that I care enough. While he is away it gives off the message that he doesn't give a toss, which may or may not be true.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 8 Aug 11 at 20:41
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>>If I was PM I would fly back, just to send out a message that I care enough. While he is away it gives off the message that he doesn't give a toss, which may or may not be true.<<
I can only presume you dont comprehend how command structures work, but as it stands, Clegg is 'acting Prime Minister' at this point which is why he is doing the PR job atm.
One person ive yet to hear from is Ed Milliband. Ive had the news on and off all day and only heard Diane Abbott and some Labour chap ive never heard of from the local council.
For balance, you want to take a chunk out of Ed too? No, thought not. Very cynical chap, very.
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>> For balance, you want to take a chunk out of Ed too? No, thought not.
>> Very cynical chap, very.
When it gets to this level, HMgov and her majesties opposition close ranks and support each other.
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Re - Teenagers and Blackberrys:
47% of UK teenagers have a smartphone, of whom 37% have a Blackberry - more than one in six of all teenagers, and more than twice the percentage of the next most popular handset (iPhone):
bit.ly/oLPJZ1
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 8 Aug 11 at 20:42
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I suspect that the UK operator of the Blackberry Messaging service might shut it down for a few days. It won't stop the rioting but it might make it harder for them, they would have to loot an off licence to get money to top up their phones first.
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I reckon a fair proportion of participants are getting their info from the rolling news coverage rather than social networks.
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No they wont do that, UK gov is capturing it all for evidence, Its a godsend!
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>> I suspect that the UK operator of the Blackberry Messaging service might shut it down
>> for a few days.
If they do, they can kiss goodbye to their future sales.
This really is minor stuff so far, and yet we are talking about water cannons, shutting down mobile networks, etc, etc
Do you think there is a chance that many people could be overreacting?
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No. Just imagine what it must be like to be trapped in a building with a burning car next to it and thugs running through the street. The damaging has already run into several millions.
And if rumours on Twitter are true, these riots will spread to the entire country by the end of the week.
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>> No. Just imagine what it must be like to be trapped in a building with
>> a burning car next to it and thugs running through the street.
Yeah, imagine what it would be like trying to call 999 on your disabled Blackberry.
>> And if rumours on Twitter are true, these riots will spread to the entire country
>> by the end of the week.
I didn't realise that there were people on Twitter who had a crystal ball.
But anyway, shut the news networks down, close down the public transport and blockade the roads too, close down the telecommunications network, bring in a curfew and shoot on sight.
It is the only thing that is going to stop a few shops getting smashed up, and a bunch of insured electronics nicked.
This will burn itself out, as they always do.
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>> And if rumours on Twitter are true, these riots will spread to the entire country by the end of the week.
What utter ****cks. I hope at least. So if someone says jump on Twitter someone jumps?
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I am not a twitterer or whatever but I thought the idea of it was that you signed up to get individual people's twitterings?
So who is sending these tweets and how do they know, and why do you follow them?
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You can search, for example "liverpool riots" then it picks up the tags. Official confirmation so far that there is no trouble apart from the cities already confirmed. I am hoping all this will die down tonight and this is the end of the trouble.
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If idiots in other cities think there have to be riots because someone tweeted - god help us (g in god deliberately lower case).
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>> Do you think there is a chance that many people could be overreacting?
It's Corporal Jones syndrome.
Don't Panic!!!!!!!!!!!!
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>> Do you think there is a chance that many people could be overreacting?
>>
Your house not on fire yet?
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I was not suggesting turn off blackberries. I was suggesting they shut the messaging system down, which these thugs are using to communicate. I it should also a be a voluntary thing. I am not suggesting the government should make them do it.
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Rats, the gov has the keys to the BB servers, they are storing all the messages for evidence! They dont want to close down their sources of evidence!
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What we need most of all now is a visit from PC Rain, the best policeman on the planet.
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Probably all on pay as you go SIMs though, so unless they are on contracts it may be hard to pin down. I wish them good luck though, these scum need locking up.
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>> I was not suggesting turn off blackberries. I was suggesting they shut the messaging system
>> down, which these thugs are using to communicate. I it should also a be a
>> voluntary thing. I am not suggesting the government should make them do it.
Pointless, unless you shut down all types of messaging, even if it wasn't a massive overreaction, and very damaging to RIM.
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>> >> Do you think there is a chance that many people could be overreacting?
>> >>
>>
>> Your house not on fire yet?
Er, no. But a few other people's houses are on fire. Shall we call the army in now?
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Would be a good idea rather than sending them to sort other countries problems
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>> Would be a good idea rather than sending them to sort other countries problems
No disagreement from me there :)
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Apparently they are rioting in Corby, but no-one has noticed anything different...
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I just cannot believe the crap on Twitter now, people making stupid comments without giving any details.
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>> I just cannot believe the crap on Twitter now...
Isn't Twitter full of crap anyway? Welcome to the real world.
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I understand that in Cambridge someone has knocked over a Pimms.
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All views expressed in my pub tonight would make Assad a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize.
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>> Apparently they are rioting in Corby, but no-one has noticed anything different...
Disturbances there have caused £5million pounds worth of improvements...
EDIT: I see Cameron's on his way back to chair an emergency meeting in the morning.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 8 Aug 11 at 21:52
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I would like to thing that scousers have too much pride in their city to bother rioting. I think if there is any trouble in Liverpool it will be gang related.
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Nothing left worth nicking.
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.dup post
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 8 Aug 11 at 21:59
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P.M's on the way back - must be following Rattle on here.
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Good old Beeb - managed to mention Corbra tonight, must be real crisis then !
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I guess on the upside, nobody will want to live in these places if it carries on, which is great for property prices in the cities, not so much for home insurance mind.
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Have you seen Brixton since the riots 20 years ago? really improved and a very expensive area.
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>>Have you seen Brixton since the riots 20 years ago? really improved and a very expensive area.
but for how long.......
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George Osborne is still in Disney land he says he feels safe there.
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I've worked for some years with East Anglian farmers who constantly have to put up with the useless police doing nothing about farm thefts - resulting in the action of Tony Martin. Wouldn't it be nice if now, with a bit of looting in the metropolis, the government would wake up and listen to the pleas of honest people.
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A Labour MP is blaming student loans for the riots.
God, it is so obvious, why didn't we cotton on...?
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My daughter's reported rioters have been through Sainsbury's in Lee (south of Blackheath, east of Lewisham).
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Hearing reports of it in Ealing, Woolwich, Wolverhampton.... Sheesh.
Fairly safe here I reckon.
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Best place to hide is in a Job Centre if your area gets hit
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That was one of several jokes doing the rounds yesterday... Ironically Tottenham JCP was on the news, all windows smashed.
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Most the reports on twitter are malicious crap. According to Twitter Manchester is burning and the scousers have finally found employment, all crap.
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I'm weeding out the less credible Twitter sources, only paying attention to official accounts from news, politics and police sources. I mean, who'd believe that about the scousers? ;)
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Fantastic how some people are trying to blame the looting and riots on cuts.
How utterly moronic to stand up in public and spout such nonsense. A normal civilised person doesnt loot shops, criminals loot and carry petrol bombs, ruin neighbourhoods.
These idiots who are trying to make excuses for these criminals are just the same as the vile human beings they are defending, lock them up for inciting violence, there is NO excuse.
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>> criminals loot and carry petrol bombs, ruin neighbourhoods.
My daughter was asking me earlier - what good do they think it's going to do, smashing up stuff where they live?
My answer was, I don't think they *think*...
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>> >> criminals loot and carry petrol bombs, ruin neighbourhoods.
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>> My daughter was asking me earlier - what good do they think it's going to
>> do, smashing up stuff where they live?
>>
>> My answer was, I don't think they *think*...
They think, but they certainly don't think "what good can I do?"
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>> Fantastic how some people are trying to blame the looting and riots on cuts.
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>> How utterly moronic to stand up in public and spout such nonsense.
A lot of playing politics. Ken Livingstone was banging on about it tonight. He was asked on the BBC what would be the first thing he would advise, if Boris called him in tomorrow to help sort the mess out, without missing a beat he said...."reduce fares"
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Sheer anarchy. Does anyone still think the police are using appropriate tactics. I don't. Watch SKY news and see the reoprts. Two guys in Clapham said the looting went on for an hour and a half before enough police turned up. All those that have witnessed the looting say they are young gangs of kids who don't give a hoot. Maybe they need a reality check.
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>> Two guys in Clapham said the looting went on
>> for an hour and a half before enough police turned up.
It does sound like there have been lots of arrests (at least a couple of hundred), but I wonder. How many cops do you need to safely start arresting people in a group of, say, 50 looters, perhaps with 100 other people hanging around, and possibly more a short distance away?
As always with these things, making sure that people are not hurt or killed is alway going to be a priority, far more so than smashed windows and stolen jumpers, so any arrests have to be made safely.
I once saw about 20 officers (no exaggeration) turn up to speak with a couple of lads smoking cannabis, and looking surly on a housing estate. No doubt a large fear was that others from the estate could get involved.
So, how many do you need to safely manage the arrest of 50 looters in the middle of serious unrest?
Perhaps the police actually understand what are the right tactics here.
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Terrible and hopefully the punishments will be suitable to those caught and convicted. Unfortunately not all will and some will therefore get away with it and boast about what they did to the next generation who will likely do the same!
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Just heard from friends in Rugby and Coventry where there is trouble starting.
Getting closer to home...
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>> Getting closer to home
I'd heard Cov too, but unconfirmed so didn't say on here.
Oh and Rattle, London mobile networks are apparently to be restricted to 999 use only until 0600.
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We have friends in both towns on the scene.
I have a friend in London who has a riot going on in the street below, they are sitting on their sofas with baseball bats.
Just heard from someone else that somethings happened in Liverpool too.
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The "Supporting Met Police" facebook page looks to be rapidly turning into a rioter's gazetteer. Video of a few louts slinging traffic cones at Liverpool riot plod.
I'd hate to be in the police at this second, anywhere in the country.
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>> Just heard from someone else that somethings happened in Liverpool too.
Yes, but the police are appealing for the middle aged men in shell suits to just "calm down calm down".
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>> Oh and Rattle, London mobile networks are apparently to be restricted to 999 use only
>> until 0600.
What's your source for that Dave? I would suggest that it is incredibly unlikely for that to happen and, if it was, it would certainly be prominently mentioned by the news networks.
Not on Twitter, are you?
EDIT: Ah, I see you are getting your news from Twitter :)
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 00:31
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What's your source for that Dave?
inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/and-this-is-just-london-what-about-the-other-cities/#comments
Comment at 12:03am. Others have since pointed out the BBC are carrying out interviews by phone, so clearly not true.
EDIT: It's hard to know what to believe from any of the dozen or so sources I'm following tbh. I do know not to take Twitter at face value though.
:)
EDIT EDIT: Twitter mobile not working for me, only PC site.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 00:36
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>> It's hard to know what to believe from any of the dozen or so sources I'm following tbh
Like official sources instead of a third party website known to have been hacked?
When I want the latest news I normally ask.... the BBC or heaven forbid Sky. Or the Telegraph. Or the Grauniad.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 00:59
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Hourly (or so) updates on the Inspector Gadget blog - he's been called in (from a rest day) and will continue to post updates.
Bricks being thrown at cars in Chalk Farm/Camden (near the Roundhouse), Charlton ASDA on fire (near Blackwall Tunnel / O2).
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Just hear a couple of people suggesting the Ricoh arena shopping centre is on fire, not sure if its true.
Last edited by: FoR on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 00:27
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Ricoh arena is a sports ground / concert venue on the outskirts, highly doubtful anyone can be bothered to go there to kick off (no pun intended). A Twitter search for Cov only comes up with half a dozen recent messages, all officially (Police, ITV) confirming nothing doing.
I'm off to bed while the country goes to hell in a handcart.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 00:30
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>> My daughter's reported rioters have been through Sainsbury's
Some went through Carpet Right at the weekend. It was mentioned they were probably rug dealers.
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Looting? - They`re only Christmas Shopping!!
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It is all a bit late now anyway, I doubt anything new will kick off other than the original trouble.
I am just hoping all this will phase out by tomorrow. I am worried about it spreading to Manchester, but I think towns such as Oldham are much more likely to be at risk.
Also the claims technology is to blame are pathetic, there was no facebook back in 1981 yet they still happened. Although those riots were more spontaneous. Lots of groups on Facebook have formed inviting people to a riot. I expect the creator of those will be getting a visit from PC Plod soon.
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>> I expect the creator of those will be getting a visit from PC Plod soon.
Incitement, conspiracy, both can carry long sentences.
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i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01967/jump_1967358d.jpg
The above photo is quite chilling and shows how these fire starting maniacs care nothing about people, let alone property.
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Nipped up to London for the evening, a welcome break from horrible work. Herself was going to some modern cut-down mediaeval mystery plays at the Globe. I dropped her at the Hammersmith tube and spent the evening in North Kensington in Caribbean circles.
The costumes for Carnival are coming on, the camp was like a vivid clothes sweatshop with rows of glittering headpeices and boleros on hangers. Most of the old guys had left though. Exchanged civilities there and went off for an evening stroll and a couple of drinks in the posh William IV in Harrow Road with the costume boss, my old buddy from the fifties, a couple of old real Gate faces.
Views on the Tottenham events - there were supposed to be some sputtering me-too efforts going on in Harlesden just up the road, but we couldn't hear a thing, a few racing phalanxes of fuzz vans but that's fairly normal round there - varied sharply. Old ladies thought the rioters should all be arrested and flung in jail, or at least whomped across the head and told to clear up the mess. My old buddy though took an anarchist line and said he found it all quite amusing and entirely understandable. He was in favour of proper schooling (one can only agree), apprenticeships and jobs, as there had been when he was young. He said those boys actually think they have no future. And of course he's right in a way.
More amusingly, he said he would like to see red-faced colonial policemen in shorts, not these sour Met geezers. He said the colonial police he knew in Trinidad as a boy had some understanding of multiculturalism,unlike these people. Like all black people I have ever met he is suspicious of the police for what seem, when described, to be quite good reasons. He is not a criminal or hooligan but a stylish, cultured man of 80.
I said I had heard a senior Met officer saying he wanted to make carnival 'safe', and that that sounded sinister and idiotic to me. He said it was worse than that, there had been talk of banning carnival because of these riots in Tottenham.
Heh heh... I almost wish they would try it. If they did, you would see some trouble. As it is they have been faffing around arresting a few known dope dealers. All that will achieve is to annoy a few people. It certainly won't make carnival, which isn't at all dangerous, any 'safer'.
Down to Chelsea to pick up herself, zapped back here on empty roads. It's another world. But I do miss the Gate, all the hurly burly and action. I won't even get a taste of Carnival this year. My sister will be here and I have to be polite, herself says. Bummer. It falls on my birthday too.
I agree with zippy. Arson is disgusting. Not for nothing do they give heavy custodial sentences for it.
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>> zapped back here on empty roads.
Something I've just remembered though: four of the usual all-night petrol stations were closed, from the one in Castelnau just past Hammersmith Bridge onwards, all closed with their forecourts coned off.
Had Brixtonian would-bes made pools of petrol on the forecourts trying vainly to stuff 97 octane nozzles down Coke bottle necks? I think we should be told.
Be that as it may, there wasn't an open garage until the A3 Kingston bypass. And what with having to communicate through cash drawers with a succession of wordless Asians, it took several more garages before we managed to get two very cold and not at all nice sandwiches in unopenable-without-a-savage-effort packaging. Nearly in Dorking by then.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 03:18
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I've just got up and started watching BBC coverage @ 6am. Widespread and vicious rioting and looting countrywide. It is very disturbing to think that there is such an untapped reservoir of violence and criminality whose dam seems to have burst. It has got to the state that an Oxfam shop looted and wrecked in Ealing! I do not think, having seen the pictures, that the position was overstated when the Beeb said they were the worst fires seen in London since the Blitz. Businesses wrecked, hundreds homeless and thousands living in fear for their lives and property. It is hard to see either the cause or the cure.
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Slightly amazed to hear the Home Secretary on BBC saying that this situation will be beaten by the "Use of Intelligence" Did any Intelligence predict this chaos? She say this will be beaten with the assistance of the communities - It seems to me that the communities are too divided to be helpful and that this is a major aspect of the problem.
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Trading estate round the corner was raided by these low-life last night. They trashed the McDonalds and looted Halfords and the electrical shops. Police sirens were wailing into the night. Getting a bit close to home . . . :-(
I've always been moderately left of centre and I understand all the arguments about hopelessness and despair in certain communities (though some of the fault does lie with the communities themselvesl). However I can't see how mindless anarchy and destruction helps the situation. As Diane Abbott tearfully said last night, who will want to invest in Hackney now and provide employment?
A BBC report this morning said that every shop in Clapham High Street had been looted, except one, since the rioters were not interested in its contents. The shop - Waterstones Bookshop. Quite telling, really.
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Well I hope they havent burned out Sainsbury in Staines. The manager is due a very very unpleasant visit from me this morning.
Yesterday I bought a loaf of bread, opened last night to find a: its mouldy and b: it has a sell by date of the 5th Aug.
Mouldy bread huh! should be interesting, bring out Madam Guillotine
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>> Well I hope they havent burned out Sainsbury in Staines. The manager is due a
>> very very unpleasant visit from me this morning.
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>> Yesterday I bought a loaf of bread, opened last night to find a: its mouldy
>> and b: it has a sell by date of the 5th Aug.
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>> Mouldy bread huh! should be interesting, bring out Madam Guillotine
Kicked up a fuss, "stock rotation is your fundamental business blah blah,, should have got in touch with environmental health blah blah,, local paper would love this blah blah"
Ended up with new bread, 20squids gift voucher, and a free lemon drizzle cake!!! lol there is a man who understands what the peasants need, bread and cake. Eat your heart out Marie A!
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Zero, you obviously got a dept manager or trainee. A store manager wouldn't have gone to that level.
We know the average punter (even if he is a layabout retiree) won't be bothered with the hassle of going to trading standards and if they do, we can show them our practices, due diligence etc.
Anyway, the drizzle cake was probably a warehouse allocation that they needed rid of :)
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"20squids gift voucher, and a free lemon drizzle cake!!!"
Don't get me started on 'the compensation culture' - that's something else that's ruining the country. Everybody wants something for nothing - still, it's a bit more civilised than looting.
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>>Ended up with new bread, 20squids gift voucher, and a free lemon drizzle cake!!! lol there is a man who understands what the peasants need, bread and cake. Eat your heart out Marie A! <<
Love it.
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>> b: it has a sell by date of the 5th Aug.
I always check the date and take the one with the longest sell by date left on it.
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Dave, thats too sensible, remember you have retirees out there with nothing else to do than try and pick a fight!!
Coming soon to the streets of London...... Zero in a hoodie :)
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Zero actualy has a several hoodies in is wardrobe. They are a very practical item of apparell.
I dont do the "gangsta rappa strides down shreddies visible" look tho.
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I have not read all the posts above yet, but I have just seen on TV a recently retired police commander with public order experience saying we have created a police force that is more concerned about ending up in court if they crack a few heads than anything else. This was demonstrated by police standing around in riot gear while shops were being looted and torched. I tend to agree.
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Out of mild concern for my family I looked just now at the Somerset County Gazette website.
The headines were:
'Rioting hits Bristol as violence spreads'.
'Dulverton cricket club members raise £4,000'.
England, our England...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 08:41
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>> . . . a recently retired police commander with public order experience saying we have created a
>> police force that is more concerned about ending up in court if they crack a
>> few heads than anything else.
But we don't have a police "force" anymore. It's not politically correct. We have a "service".
We now have the PC PC.
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Remember the Met is leaderless at present with all the temps unwilling to take risks with their future...
Invest in London? No.. don't think so...
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The irony is that all these businesses and local shops will probably employ many local people up until now, but they will be paid off until the shop is rebuilt and reopens.
As we all know, high st retail has taken a hammering in recent months so I would imagine there will be many retailers in these areas that will take the opportunity to close down for good.
What we need to see is quick action in the courts, the ones already caught from Tottenham should be tried and given long sentences to show an example. And lets make sure its not breach of the peace - anyone caught setting fire to a building should be tried for attempted murder.
And when they are someone else's biatch in jail, scared to pick up the soap in the showers, I hope they think back to how "misunderstood they were by society"
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Might be what you want, but I think they may have already bulk booked Disney World for this lot, to show them how much this country cares about them. Blah blah blah.
Farm them off to a chinese jail, now that is a sentance.
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I think that many of the youths involved in this disorder probably left whatever education they had with Null Points and are thus unemployable, even if there were any jobs to apply for.
I also wonder where their parents think they are and what do they think/do when a teenager comes home smelling of burning shops and carrying 32 inch flat screen TV?
Fat Zero is my guess. (Not you Zero, you sylph!)
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>>I also wonder where their parents think they are and what do they think/do when a teenager comes home smelling of burning shops and carrying 32 inch flat screen TV?<<
Prob pat them on the back.
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>>>>I also wonder where their parents think they are and what do they think/do when a teenager comes home smelling of burning shops and carrying 32 inch flat screen TV?<<
Prob pat them on the back.
I reckon it is more likely they would chastise them for not getting the 3D TV because they will already have the 600 inch bog standard plasma!
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Should be good for tourism with the much hyped Olympics, Lord Coe will be delighted.
Rich Yanks and Chinese as we speak trying desperately to book ringside seats for the brick and petrol bomb throwing events.
If this country wasn't a complete laughing stock before, it certainly will be now.
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I just noticed on the front page of Ebay UK was an advert for cut-price hoodies.
Presumably Ebay will be ultra-active for the next few weeks.
'Here we have my.........brand new but I've lost the paperwork'.
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It's time to deploy troops to back up the police who are outnumbered and have clearly lost control. Water cannon and baton rounds should be used on the mobs, the time of worrying about the odd person who might get killed or badly hurt are now gone, the priority has to be to put a stop to it.
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Of course the country is a laughing stock, and we have been importing trouble for years. My wife works at the local prison - ask her about the ethnic make-up of the inmates.
Unfortunately, many of us have lost all faith in the politicians and the police. The law was extremely effective in catching up with me when I forgot to re-tax/sorn my motorcycle as it languished in the garage over the winter but, when there are rioters looting and setting London ablaze, the police just stand and watch. Whatever happened to rubber bullets?
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You can't really say that, it depends on the ethnic make up of the local area that the prison serves. Also the a lot of them will be born here.
From what I can see at least half the rioters are white, this is not a black riot despite the impression the media originally gave.
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>>From what I can see at least half the rioters are white,
that was not what I saw from the pictures on BBC last night
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It could be selective reporting, I am not sure, the bits I have seen there have been plenty of white people. There where black people as well, but it is dangerous to consider these riots as all one race.
I think one lesson the government can learn from all this is that the police need to be given more powers.
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Reports of a riot in Sainsbury's. sparked off by man arguing about out dated bread. Police say the organiser was seen driving off in a Mitsubishi with the words "I knew I should have bought a Kia" written on it.
That said I would would have kicked off a stink too, although I always check the dates and report any out of date stuff to staff. I am hated in my local Morrisson's as I am always complaining, usually because the often the offer prices don't come up.
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At one time I was so well known in a local ASDA that all I had to do was drop the out dated fish on the customer services counter. No need to give name address etc, the voucher would appear in the post 2 days later! I think they never bothered to sort the fish - they just relied on me.
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You keep returning to a shop which consistently supplies you with dangerous seafood?
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Riots that began in London on the night of Sunday 7 August are spreading across the British capital... "There is real agitation in London's outskirts where ethnic youth groups from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan live...
The Olympics will be hosted next year; the security situation in London, which has always been a first-choice site for terrorist attacks, will be even grimmer. British police now face two main problems. First, as the government cuts police funding in order to reduce the deficit, British police will carry out massive layoffs. With insufficient manpower and financial resources, they will inevitably be overwhelmed with problems in maintaining social order. Second, after the News of the World phone-hacking scandal, the credibility of the British police has declined and there is still a very long way to go in rebuilding the credibility of the police and restoring public support
Comments from Russia and China...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14456635
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I'm glad some of you here thinks its okay to make light of this situation. When police and firefighters are getting injured, commercial property is being looted and being set alight and the public are scared to death in these areas. Not funny.
As for you AC, you're tails of the old school of Notting Hill paints a rosy picture which is the root of this behaviour. Take those blinkers off man. Maybe if these older Caribbeans showed the same displeasure and disgust with their offspring as we feel, then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess. So where are the nurturing parents of the knife weilding gangs across London that have now taken to looting and rioting. No-one else has said it yet. It's the elephant in the room. But many of the people being interviewed last night, including reporters, held back from stating the obvious. The gangs of looters are MAINLY black. And you don't like it. You just stick your head in the sand.
Where are these good people now, you purport to mix with. They should be accounting for this behaviour. It is them that have sowed the seeds that have now harvested. And now I'll suppose this post will be removed because you, and a few other liberals on here don't like the truth.
As to tactics. Many ex police commanders have said since last night, they need to go in hard. Much what I said two days ago. Water cannon and tear gas have been RULED OUT. So the odd cracked head or bruised leg wont go amiss if it arises tonight. Supplementary to this, I think containment should be used. i.e. Kettling. So far the police have dispersed crowds to gather in other areas. Also the rolling 24 news should have a blackout on the subject. Gives the rioters kudos. Then ban footage of anything connected with these incidents on U Tube. Finally, many of these kids get around London free on public transport. Only allow this during term time. Lets hope this has come to a conclusion and we get back to normal.
Last edited by: Mr. Ecs on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 11:46
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"Also the rolling 24 news should have a blackout on the subject. Gives the rioters kudos. Then ban footage of anything connected with these incidents on U Tube. Finally, many of these kids get around London free on public transport. Only allow this during term time. Lets hope this has come to a conclusion and we get back to normal."
Hmm so impose a police state in terms that Iran and Syria would do... I doubt it somehow...
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you do know, of course, we dont have any water cannons in the UK? Where are they coming from then?
You also must have a funny coloured TV Mr X, the gangs I have seen have been white, black, and asian.
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Zero, Read the post. I've said water cannon has been ruled out. Though water cannon tenders are produced in this country and exported. IF we were to deploy, I don't think it would be too hard to get one. Please look before you leap. Oh, and MAINLY black.
Last edited by: Mr. Ecs on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 11:56
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>> Zero, Read the post. I've said water cannon has been ruled out. Though water cannon
>> tenders are produced in this country and exported. IF we were to deploy, I don't
>> think it would be too hard to get one. Please look before you leap.
I did read the post, you clearly wish that water cannon were used otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it. Its not a matter of ruled out its a matter of THERE ARE NONE.
Please make your rantings clear.
Oh,
>> and MAINLY black.
You are mainly wrong of course.
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A police state? I don't get free travel I pay for it. Okay let them go to and from school for free. But at weekends and evenings... no. It's a privilege not a right. Temporarily freeze the news coverage and uTube footage. There is a thing called a D notice. That is used by government on numerous occasions. So you already live in a police state if you think like that.
Last edited by: Mr. Ecs on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 11:55
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D notices may exist but they are not enforceable,
"Any D-Notices are advisory requests so are not legally enforceable and hence news editors can, in theory, choose not to abide by them." Info from Governernment Website
Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 9 Aug 11 at 12:01
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Unless we are all colour blind and the television is showing the wong pictures.The majority of people I have seen rioting in London are non white.
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>> I'm glad some of you here thinks its okay to make light of this situation.
Seeing as the country is and has been a joke for a good number of years are you really surprised that some of us express ourselves in sarcasm?
Complaining bitterly about the situation will not cure it, we the nation are to blame for this, we keep electing the same bunch of incompetents each time, just wearing a different tie, they in turn do their level best to feather their own nests for a few years and hand over to the next bunch who promise the earth for free.
We've got a police service trying to cope with it's hands tied behind it's back, what the hell are they supposed to do, sort it proper they'll be wrong.
IMO it's got beyond the situation that the modern police service is allowed to cope with and it needs stopping now, time for the army methinks.
As an aside, apparently mindless took their children, some in pushchairs, out to watch the carnage in Birmingham, words fail me.
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Too late for the edit, course we'll have to fetch the army back from various ventures round the globe putting the rest of the world to rights first.
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Its time to completely rethink the way we police the country. Its been due for years, riots or no riots.
The days of the country force are an anachronism. Too small to be affective, too disparate in this modern world, too many chiefs and all that costly support and baggage that goes with them and not enough indians, too little liaison and intel sharing.
Out with the GMP, The Met, the CoL, Surrey, Kent et al.
A national force is required, with one chief and divisional commanders. The national force can be semi military styled with semi military equipment back up. PCSO's should be extended, to do the local community Lisbon and low level crime. A separate traffic division should be created and equipped.
Dumping all these costly chief constables and their circus tents should provide us with a lot more boots on the street.
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>> you're tails of the old school of Notting Hill paints a rosy picture which is the root of this behaviour.
No picture and nothing rosy. What you don't like, X, is any suggestion that black people might not all be rioting, idle, badly-behaved youths. Your original post, and everything you have posted since, is an Alf Garnett-like rant. About black people.
Older 'Caribbeans', as I said in my post, do show displeasure and disgust with the behaviour of rioters and looters. What they probably don't show is 'the same displeasure... as we feel'. 'We', in this context, meaning you and the other Alf Garnetts of this world.
It's a different displeasure, based on the rioters' behaviour, not on their very existence, or the colour of their skin.
What an unpleasant fellow you sound.
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>> As to tactics. Many ex police commanders have said since last night, they need to go in hard. Much what I said two days ago. Water cannon and tear gas have been RULED OUT. So the odd cracked head or bruised leg wont go amiss if it arises tonight. Supplementary to this, I think containment should be used. i.e. Kettling. So far the police have dispersed crowds to gather in other areas. Also the rolling 24 news should have a blackout on the subject. Gives the rioters kudos. Then ban footage of anything connected with these incidents on U Tube. Finally, many of these kids get around London free on public transport. Only allow this during term time. Lets hope this has come to a conclusion and we get back to normal.
God what an idiot.
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The summer rioting season debate Volume 2 - RattleandSmoke
