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As I pay £200 a year to cover the possible total loss of a £7000 car I am not too impressed to be asked to pay £69 to cover the mechanical breakdown of a £400 washer/dryer! I understand that the usual advice is to put the premium in a bank account and wait to see if the thing breaks down. Have I got that about right?
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>> Have I got that about right?
On the button!
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>>Have I got that about right?
Yes, I would say you have. Just look around your house and imagine what you would be forking out for appliance insurance if you covered everything.
Self insure and show a good profit at the end.
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I work the same way with the dog. Insurance renewal for the dog was a staggering £49 a month. More than my car insurance.
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£49 a month would buy one, depending on age, a lot of life insurance or a good pension.
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Historically I'd have agreed Zero's approach. However my impression as that the premiums have got much more competitive over the last decade. Premiums probably static in cash terms. The insurer is getting a much better deal on labour and parts then you get approaching the repairer direct
With washers and dishwashers my experience is that they will breakdown, with a time between failures of prehaps 24 months. Good breakdown insurance includes guaranteed turn out times and replacement if repair is impossible.
I've paid the sort of rates the OP quotes on a dishwasher. Two major repairs and replacement - the latter at £350 retail. Not too bad a return on £500 in premiums.
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Funny, I was thinking about this this morning.
I get two years free waranty with my credit card. So with three years' warranty on a £300-£500 ish white good it has cost £100-150 per year if it dies immediately - which it won't. When it dies, I put it out at the front of the house and it will miraculously disappear - presumably the local machine repairer will fix it up and sell it for £150, good luck to him.
So to pay £70 on top for insurance is nuts. It's not that I think the insurance is expensive; I don't. A call out inevitably means two visits and an expensive component part (rather than ten minutes with a soldering iron and replacing a resistor etc.) It's just that the white goods are so cheap.
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...However my impression as that the premiums have got much more competitive over the last decade...
Agreed.
A good example is Richer Sounds who offer a five-year guarantee on all TVs for 10 per cent of the purchase price:
www.richersounds.com/
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The only extended guarantees that I go along with are the one's that are given free of charge, such as the 5 years given by Panasonic when we bought our TV last year.
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Thus a £400 tv from Richer Sounds costs £40 to insure for 5 years and you get your premium back if you don't claim and my £400 washing machine is still 8 times as much, per annum. Not competitive yet!
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TV's are rather different to white goods though; no moving parts.
Provided it works out of the box and for the first few power on/off cycles it's probably going to last for ever.
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The 'trick' I find, is to buy reliable goods in the first place - that policy hasn't failed me in the last 30 years.
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>>The 'trick' I find, is to buy reliable goods in the first place
Quite right, Dog. You get what you pay for, nothing more.
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>>Quite right, Dog. You get what you pay for, nothing more.<<
We 'took over' a Beko washing machine, a Whirlpool tumble dryer, and a Cannon dual fuel cooker when we moved here,
Not my choice of brands I must admit, but it'll be interesting to see how they fair.
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>>Quite right, Dog. You get what you pay for, nothing more.>>
Which is why I buy Miele, Sebo, VW and similar brands, although some on here tend to scoff about my advice on such things..:-)
For many years Which? has always advised not to buy extended warranties but to regularly put the equivalent of the premiums in a savings account.
If a product goes pear shaped you can meet some or all the cost of repairs or renewal (the first year is usually covered in any case) and if nothing happens, you've gained financially.
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>> The 'trick' I find, is to buy reliable goods in the first place
Like Novatech?
www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/range/iflame.html
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Most of the extended warranties are very expensive for what you get. A mate had an extended warranty on his last washing machine - it packed up and was declared a write off at 4 months old. They gave him vouchers to the value of a new one and declared that his policy had now paid out for full replacement so it had finished.
In short he paid for an extended warranty for which he got no benefit.
Worth checking out John Lewis as they offer longer warranty (2 years on most washing machines, 3 years on their own brand) plus free delivery and will price match most of the other big players.
We bought our last washer in there - it was an ex-display one for 209 quid and had the 3 year warranty on it. I figured if it lasted the 3 years I was happy. Goes on between once and twice every day and is now 4 years old - quiet to
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Got my TV at JLP, with a free 5 year guarantee.
sorted.
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>> Got my TV at JLP, with a free 5 year guarantee.
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>> sorted.
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Glad you got a result. John Lewis are good for lots of things and we buy stuff from them sometimes - but you have to be careful.
"Never knowingly undersold" - HaHaHaHa........(continued for 27 pages)
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I don't buy them because I can afford to carry my own risk. For people living hand to mouth they can be a reassurance (though of course they add cost over time). Some people also fret about who they would they trust to fix things if they broke down...that's why the words "peace of mind" are often used in connection with these services.
Pricing is about what people will pay (as with everything) not just expected claims. So extended warranties are better value on products or brands that break down more - which basically means washers, and especially washer-dryers, and it's not unusual for customers to come out ahead on those, though on average they don't of course.
Like Stuartli I try to buy 'quality' reliable stuff, but intuition as to what is likely to be reliable is not always...reliable. My experience of VWs for example has not been good, and although the experience is a bit out of date, an acquaintance of mine who worked in warranty insurance told me they had never even got close to making money on warranties for another respected German manufacturer.
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We buy good quality in the first place, rarely if ever do they go wrong, we don't buy white goods insurance as such though better often comes with long term warranty as standard.
A friend buys the cheapest he can find but has some sort of full home cover from British Gas (couldn't tell you what it's called), they are always having something repaired or replaced for free.
Probably not a lot of difference in costs over time.
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The only warranties I tend to bother with is Richersounds. On a £150 TV it costs £15 (10%) so makes a lot of sense.
That is for five years too, bought a Samsung 22" 1080p for £165 including the five year warranty, it works out at an amazing bargain, my parents are guaranteed a TV for five years. I worked out that at DSGi stores, the exact same TV with the same warranty was closer to £300.
As for John Lewis, you will often find the same product at Richersounds with the same but optional warranty is cheaper, but not always.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Fri 15 Jul 11 at 20:23
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>> We buy good quality in the first place, rarely if ever do they go wrong,
>> we don't buy white goods insurance as such though better often comes with long term
>> warranty as standard.
>>
Trouble is, working out what is 'good quality' and what isn't can be tricky.
I believe Miele went through a phase of supplying Bosch dishwashers with Miele badges on; seems they've stopped doing that due to reliability issues. For sure our Hotpoint dishwasher (10 years old, no faults) was also sold with a very slightly different front panel as a Bosch, lord knows who actually designed or manufactured them.
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>> Trouble is, working out what is 'good quality' and what isn't can be tricky.
>>
That's true, some of these pages are well worth reading.
www.washerhelp.co.uk/
ukwhitegoods.co.uk/
Last year part of my work involved the recycling side of white goods, truckloads daily, that was an eye opener.
My previous admiration for one particular manufacturer was dashed, however i didn't see one Miele in 6 months.
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My insurance on white goods is to do some basic research - Which free at Library - and Internet reviews..
So don't buy Hotpoint for example..
Bought Miele tumble dryer .. Bosch washing machine and AEG fridge/freezer.
Simple sums about life: Will an item costing twice as much last twice as long?
Of course , some white goods are worth keeping and never throwing away as long as you buy reliability and back up. A 40 year old Hayterette rotary mower is still serviceable and runs virtually as new due to proper maintenance.
Some goods are not worth buying new and expensive if fashion changes and depreciation is 100% in 5 years ... eg phones...and computers..
As for insurance, I expect a 3 year warranty. If it lasts that long, it usually last two or three times longer.. I pay no insurance on white goods...better off buying another (except - as above - Richer Sounds on TV)..
Last edited by: madf on Fri 15 Jul 11 at 20:25
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We ended up buying a Samsung Washing machine for £200 in an Arogs sale, because my parents got sick of paying £300+ for decent ones only for them to last two years.
The Samsung is still going, I've put a new belt on it, and we had a new pump fitted but other than touch wood it works perfectly. The engineer which fixed it said it has a very good quality motor fitted to it.
No doubt when the bushes go we will get the motor overhauled rather than buy as new washing machine.
I've noticed the quality of modern PCs have dropped lately too, and I am using this as a basis to sell more repairs. Yes my repair will cost you £200, but you will end up with a PC far better quality than the off the shelf crap.
Laptops are another thing, they don't have proper cooling in them and it is common for them to fail after 18 months due to prolonged overheating.
From my experience things which are worth getting a warranty on or not:-
Desktop PCs, not worth it as most repairs will cost a lot less than £100.
Laptops - Maybe if the warranty is cheap but otherwise the laptop will not be worth much after 12 months anyway, cheaper to save the warranty money towards a replacement.
Washing Machines - again depends on the price, but with washing machines it seems research is the order of the day.
Toasters - are you having a laugh?
Microwaves - We have never had one fail ever, the only reason we have replaced them is because they have started to look very old and tatty. We typically keep them beyond 10 years.
TVs - This can go wrong with these, power supplies and back lights/inverters are common issues, so if its cheap enough it might be worth taking out a warranty.
HIFI - My experience suggests this might be worth while, depending on the price, I have been very unlucky with amplifiers for example, and always wished I had taken out a warranty. Although currently using a 13 year old Yamaha as a stop gap.
Netbooks - These seem a lot more reliable than laptops, because they don't have the same heat issues. They are also cheap to replace. Don't bother with a warranty.
Speakers - Any damage is likely to be your own fault, so don't bother.
Personal Video Recorders - Early ones were prone to leaking capacitors and power issues, but the modern ones seem more reliable, however if less than 20% of purchase cost I would take it out, they also seem to hold their value well, so if you buy a £150 PVR now, it is still likely cost £150 in two years time.
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I have home breakdown cover as an extra on my Saga home/contents insurance. IIRC around £60 for the year.
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Insurers used to make a profit (three years ago) at a 115% loss ratio. I don't see any change now.
Bung the dough in a BIG Whisky bottle and feel the difference.
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We are 1/3 the way through a 3 LITRE bottle of Bacardi (bought tax free in a BFPO area). When it's empty it will be just the job for £1 coins.
Whether we will live long enough to fill it is another matter!
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White Goods Breakdown Insurance - Zero
