|
Can I have the benefit of the wealth of knowledge here on the good and bad aspects of these windows? None of my houses have had them so I have no experience of them myself.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 10:29
|
|
My last property had them fitted - Everest they were. Excellent stuff, coloured browny woodgrain, they never needed painting (advantage) - they remained a tight fit in all weathers - no noticeable expansion/contraction, they don't rot. Hardwood windows here, interesting to see how they compare. No doubt the other side will be out of the woodwork to say how window frames need to breathe and that they enjoy painting them every couple of years.
|
I have a mix of plastic coated aluminium windows and full UVPC windows and some doors.
UVPC Pros
Very draft proof and thermally efficient, no maintenance, secure locking/latching systems, cheap and easy to specify and fit, Lots of styles and choice.
UVPC cons
The joined seams discolour, doors sag if left open in the heat, and they never (in my opinion) look right. Cant be used if your property is listed in some cases. There are some shocking suppliers and fitters out there, buyer beware.
IF I had a property of character or a particular "style" I would fit windows in keeping with that house. Mine is a non-descript late 30s of no particular aesthetic qualities, so UVPC makes sense.
|
30s of no particular aesthetic qualities
Apart from the brickwork of course.
|
>>
>> 30s of no particular aesthetic qualities
>>
>>
>> Apart from the brickwork of course.
And he we go, for a full set of points.
Bricks, Render, UVPC windows,
And a bonus point for slate chippings.
Game, set and Match I think.
i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/know_wun/bricks/DSCF0176.jpg
|
>>>Game, set and Match I think
Can't argue with that when you even have skirting boards on the outside... oh how folks live down south.
|
Can't argue with that when you even have skirting boards on the outside.
There's posh for you.
|
...i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/know_wun/bricks/DSCF0176.jpg...
The lavender could do with a drink.
|
|
Yeah, its dry and arid down here in the south.
|
We went all UPVC windows about 3yrs ago. A little like Zero I had no worries re looks as our place is mid 20s and, despite some nice internal period features, is a bit of a renderd box. The windows we replaced were some 1970s very thin double glazing in softwood... the original sash windows were long gone.
The new UPVC ones were cheap, quick to fit and have the most amazing heat/sound/draught insulation.... and of course an end to the frequent hassle of getting the white gloss out.
When it comes to doors I can't do the standard white UPVC with those black rubber gaskets and panels so easily knocked in by the police *entry enforcer*. We splashed out and paid closr to £1000 a door for a self coloured wood texture GRP/timber/steel composite construction. Looks like wood and is very strong.
The current house we're considering has all the windows and conservatory in fake oak UPVC... don't like it but wouldn't stop me buying the place.... at least it won't yellow like some white UPVC I've seen.
|
We've had our PVC now for seven years,Had the Facia board done and new guttering two years ago.Still looks nice and white I keep it regular clean also clean the guttering before winter starts.
Our house is about 26 years old.We paid just under four thousand for the work the lads came on recommadation and did a good job.Our door is UPVC and looks nice.
|
>> Had the Facia board done
Yeah, thats the next stage, I intend to replace all the Fascia, Soffit, and guttering next year.
Being a detached extended bungalow, it should be a breeze, lot of it tho - about 50 Metres!
|
I'll endorse the majority view. Our old house was in one of eight pairs of Victorian semis. Ours still had wooden sash windows, which rattled but looked right so we kept them. Some of our neighbours went for uPVC replacements, which looked awful but probably kept them warmer.
The newer block at the back of the house had wooden casement windows, a couple of which were threatening to fall out, so we had uPVC replacements installed by a reputable local independent; all very satisfactory.
Our new house is an early-70s cuboid and has Everest uPVC installed in 2007 by the previous owner. Seems very good and solid, and doesn't fight with what style the house has. (The windows are big, so the glass-to-frame ratio looks OK.) Except, that is, for the horrible, half-glazed front door, complete with lip at the bottom that felled one unsuspecting visitor, and complicated locking mechanism that can be hard to engage in some weather. There must be better options than that.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 11:35
|
>>and complicated locking mechanism
All these replacement doors seem to have clever multi point locking systems
BUT I find it a real pain, having closed the door, then have to lift the handle to operate the locking thingy and then tun the key to secure the door.
>>door, complete with lip at the bottom
This seems to be the norm but I am unsure how this squares with the new requirments for ease of access.
|
Had white uPVC windows for just under 10 years in my Victorian semi-detached property, fitted by an independent joiner and double-glazing specialist.
They were designed to maintain the Victorian aspect of the property, including leaded opening top section windows, and are virtually as white today as when first installed. although the uPVC is (very) occasionally cleaned where reachable with Jif/Cif as recommended by the fitter.
No maintenance required although one single pane sash window was retained - it rattles noisily whenever there's even a slight breeze, so a bit of kitchen roll is used to stem the movement between the frame and window surround...:-)
One of the offspring moved into a Victorian property some 10 years ago or more, which was already fitted with hardwood double-glazed windows and doors. Again their condition is excellent.
|
>> Can I have the benefit of the wealth of knowledge here on the good and
>> bad aspects of these windows?
>>
In general I do not like them. Many have very thick frames. One example in my road has finished up with almost 50/50 glass v frame.
I eventually decided to have our windows replaced and we wanted the end result to look similar to our existing frames. We previously had Crittal frames set in wood.
We now have had aluminium ( powder coated ?) white frames fitted by Anglian.
I think they are fantastic and cannot image a better set of frames.
The frames are so very narrow, The joints are unlike PVCu - butt joints, again so neat.
The handles could not be neater.
The overall cost was not cheap and I probably paid over the odds but I got exactly waht I wanted and the price was secondary.
In a price sensitive sector , my type of frames seem to be a hidden secret.
Somethings to consider:-
Top hinged windows have friction hinges so NO stays.
This means you have to reach out through the open window to grab the handle and haul it in. So a larger top opening window means the handle is lower and easier to reach.
Consider the whole window to be top hinged if it is over a kitchen work surface.
My bedroom side hinged windows have extra catches in the siders so that when they are triggered the pivot point can be moved. The allows the window to be moved to its fully open position but as if it is hinged in the middle of its apparture.
I hope that makes sense. What it means is that you can easily and safely clean the outside of the window from inside the room.
|
|
My views are the same as above, I opted for Everest - expensive ? Maybe but they fitted my requirments to the degree. There was one warranty claim in the ten year period, broken locking mechanism, fixed with no quibble 9 years and 9 months into the life. The only thing I'd add is make sure you get K glass glazing, we have it here, hugely efficient, and make sure you get a FENSA certificate from the installers. Avoids messyness should you try to sell.
|
>> make sure you get a FENSA certificate from the installers.
There should also be a record with the council planning department regarding FENSA.
|
|
Yes, but only if the installers remember to issue them. Everest and a gas installer (Gas-safe) "forgot" in my property and a gas installer in my wife's house also "forgot" (ie. neglected).
|
I'd question the 'maintenance free' aspect of double glazing, when we moved into Spamcan Towers 10 years ago I was unimpressed with the uPVC glazing, seemed a bit flimsy. Over the last few years I've spent 600 quid on replacing blown panes and broken hinges, and there's more happening all the time :-/.
I wish I'd had it ripped out and replaced with better quality units years ago.
|
|
Like everything in life, there are crap ones, mediocre ones and good ones. The depth of pocket to length of arms ratio is the deciding factor.
|
>> Like everything in life, there are crap ones, mediocre ones and good ones. The depth
>> of pocket to length of arms ratio is the deciding factor.
>>
Yeah, it was obvious that the house hadn't had much spent on it for a few years before we bought it, but it was the right size/price/location combination.
Cheap crappy double glazing, but OTOH a TV distribution system very neatly and professionally installed to each bedroom. Strange sense of priorities!
|
>>I'd question the 'maintenance free' aspect of double glazing>>
My double-glazing, as I stated, was fitted by an independent one man (master joiner) and his son firm. He'd done a neighbour's property a year or so earlier and the neighbour recommended him highly - she was spot on.
Nothing has gone wrong, needed repairing, replacing or whatever in just under 10 years and two other neighbours have used the firm on my recommendation since. In each case they had to wait at least six months before they could be accommodated as he was booked up so far ahead.
You get what you pay for as with anything else and I, for one, would never touch the nationally known firms who run massive TV advertising campaigns; just Google for often horrific tales of their work from many disgruntled customers.
|
>>
>> You get what you pay for as with anything else and I, for one, would
>> never touch the nationally known firms who run massive TV advertising campaigns; just Google for
>> often horrific tales of their work from many disgruntled customers.
>>
The trouble is; if you're paying 'top dollar' for anything, how do you tell that you're paying for top class materials and workmanship, rather than just a huge profit margin?
I agree about the nationwide chains, most of them use sub-contract installers, so it's a total lottery whether you end up with the A-team or the Z-team installing your windows.
|
>> I agree about the nationwide chains, most of them use sub-contract installers, so it's a
>> total lottery whether you end up with the A-team or the Z-team installing your windows.
Best way (I find) to avoid sub-contractors generally:
1) Avoid June - August.
2) Insist that the work is carried out only by permanently employed operators, and have that noted on your contract.
Trouble is, it doesn't always guarantee a first class job.
|
>>The trouble is; if you're paying 'top dollar' for anything, how do you tell that you're paying for top class materials and workmanship, rather than just a huge profit margin? >>
In my case the materials were top class, along with the workmanship. The price was approximately the same as local double-glazing firms, but the real key was the "very satisfied" recommendation from a neighbour of many years.
|
Another consideration about replacement windows.
It seems the norm to use plastic strips on the room side to cover the gap between the frames and the wall / window cill so you finish up with a narrower useable cill.
I do not like this extra frame around the window.
I told them to omit these bits and I will make good so the windows look the same as if it is a new build.
The down side is that, provided you are DIY handy there is some tidying up to do.
Damaged wall paper edges but often hidden behind curtains. If the original window cills are retained then the gap to the frame needs filling. I was able and prepared to do these tasks but I suspect 99% would not. Some companies replace window cills.
|
|
Wooden sills for me - plastic is 'orrible
|
>> Wooden sills for me - plastic is 'orrible>>
As per my post just above, the master joiner built proper interior wooden sills and frame inserts to our requirements..:-)
|
The interior finish was crucial to me too.
As I said our UPVC replaced 70s softwood... but that had been fitted inside the old sash frames that we had to take out this time. The way offered by all the DG companies to finish the inside was broad angle sections of UPVC to cover the plaster damage inside. I wasn't keen.
I just had them fit the windows to be weatherproof from the outside and leave all the inside mess. Then over a couple of months with timber mouldings I had made to replicate the 1920s originals I constructed window cills, opening linings and return mouldings so they give the same feel to the room as the old sash ones.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 13:36
|
>> Wooden sills for me - plastic is 'orrible
>>
I am not aware of internal plastic sills being fitted but external ones are normally plastic.
My external sills are aluminium.
Replacement internal sills are usually wood or MDF
The ones that were replaced in my house were a dark hardwood ( on 4" walls) so I then needed to build up the paint levels.
|
>> >> Wooden sills for me - plastic is 'orrible
>> >>
>> I am not aware of internal plastic sills being fitted but external ones are normally
>> plastic.
>>
I assume this is the sort of thing:-
www.fascias.com/contents/en-uk/d203_Window_Internal_Cills_White.html
|
>>Wooden sills for me - plastic is 'orrible
>> I assume this is the sort of thing:-
>>
>> www.fascias.com/contents/en-uk/d203_Window_Internal_Cills_White.html
>>
Thanks for those orrible examples. I have never seen them- ugh!
|
>> >>Wooden sills for me - plastic is 'orrible
>> >> I assume this is the sort of thing:-
>> >>
>> >> www.fascias.com/contents/en-uk/d203_Window_Internal_Cills_White.html
>> >>
>> Thanks for those orrible examples. I have never seen them- ugh!
>>
Needless to say, we have those throughout at Spamcan Towers; they look OK ish in a late 70s house although I wouldn't have them by choice. Their best 'feature' is that they are plastic, hence highly insulating, so when rubbed with a duster they gain a nice big static charge, which encourages dust. So a nice little vicious circle develops there.
|
>> I am not aware of internal plastic sills being fitted but external ones are normally plastic.
I've had both but find that the internal plastic sills tend to scratch too easily. Best to leave the old wooden ones in place in my opinion.
|
All the teams fitting windows seem to just use accrow props within the room while the frames are removed / replaced.
Beware - if you have overhanging gables then insist the gable is accrow supported externally. i.e. from the ground right up to gutter level.
This will avoid any sagging due to the roof etc settling.
I learned the hard way.
This can be especially important if the windows have already been replace once before.
Undoubtably the fitters will probably not agree but stand your ground and insist the do it as you want.
|
|
Yep and if they need acrow props to hold the opening up make sure the UPVC window is the reinforced version or some sagging will come your way.
|
|
Yup. my front bay as a cantilevered roof, I was reassured when the esitmator mentioned it and added extra for the reinforcement bars in the frames.
|
Yup my windows have reinforcing tubes.
The fitters may need to remove a small amount of wood from the wall plates above the old frames and that too can help things settle when the internal accrows are removed.
|
|
In any event it pays to keep your eyes wide open during the installation, as the first priority of many fitters is how quickly they can get the current job out of the way and get stuck into the next one. Corners were cut during an installation of mine a few years ago because I was busy elsewhere; I just gave them the keys and told them to get on with it, and as a result their rectification team had to spent twice as long putting the job right as the original team spent installing it in the first place.
|
|
Once upon a time all the plastic frames were extruded and made in the UK - lots now made in China - even Pilkinton make their glazed panels in China these days.
|
We've had about 70% of our bungalow windows and 2 of the outside doors replaced with dark wood effect UPVC.
The rest of the gaff and the previous windows are/were softwood with double glazed units and didn't seal well at all.
We replace as needed and when we have enough loot.
We use a local double glazing firm who make their own windows and the considerable number of older long term residents in the neighbourhood all use this company, with good reason, quality products and employed on the books fitters/builders, no subbies, priced fairly.
Tremendous difference in heat and sound insulation, good security.
Some of the cheaper white UPVC frames are not steel lined, making them a bit easy for forcing, wood effect should be steel framed al round to prevent heat warping in the sun, extra price for those, but make sure the frames are up to speck if white is your choice.
Just a thought in case it might suit you, instead of a standard front door we had French doors installed, so slightly narrower than usual when one is opened for passing through, the second separately locked door can obviously be opened when you need to get something larger through, this arrangement cost a little extra but makes the world of difference for access with large objects, and looks very pretty imo.
Also at the time of installation we dispensed with a letter box, far more secure without, we instead have a letter/parcel box outside, one of these, it's secure and lockable by parcel delivery chaps if needed. www.regalmailbox.com/main/entrance.html
|
|
If I was having double glazing installed I'd specify units with equal sight lines, I think that the visually they look considerably better than 'normal' units where the fixed lights have more glass area than the opening ones.
|
>> If I was having double glazing installed I'd specify units with equal sight lines,
>> I think that the visually they look considerably better than 'normal' units where the fixed lights have more glass area than the opening ones.
>>
I specified this. I totally agree withyou.
They referred to them as false vents. In fact they were top hinged normal units but screwed shut prior to glazing.
|
|
Ditto here... well at the front anyway for looks. I thought they may just pose a slight added security risk round the back where someone could work on them out of sight.
|
>> They referred to them as false vents. In fact they were top hinged normal units
>> but screwed shut prior to glazing.
I've seen some truly horrible looking false vents. An economy to be avoided.
|
Plague. They have a life of maybe 25 years if you're lucky. "You only fit double glazing once so fit the best" Everest have been known to talk about replacing their own units.
Wooden windows will last for ever if properly painted/maintained.
uPVC discolours so you will end up painting it anyway.
On the plus side they're warm.... but beware condensation as they're airtight.
|
>> Wooden windows will last for ever if properly painted/maintained.
Modern ones wont, not with the crap fast grown, not properly kiln dried, sodden papermache they call wood these days. The paint just keeps the innards of the timber nice and moist.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 19:50
|
>>Modern ones wont, not with the crap fast grown, not properly kiln dried, sodden papermache they call wood these days<<
S'right effendi ... our 1930's jobbies in Truro were still 100% OK, but I've seen (and had) modern stuuf rot in under 5 years!
I've had plenty of Upvc windows over the years - can't stand the blimming things especially the doors,
Best windows I had fitted (mucho wonga) were powder coated Argon filled Aluminium jobbies in Gorran Haven,
We were only there for a year :-)
Last edited by: Dog on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 21:01
|
About 20 years ago I got suckered in by a salesman at the door selling d/glazing, although at the time i didn`t realise it at first, he was doing a "consumer survey" something about baked beans if i remember correctly! Next thing his colleague arrived and after two hours i somehow signed an agreement!
cut long story short, they started installing on 23rd December, ran into problems, disappeared until 27th December leaving two upstairs windows out. The front of house team fitted the Flemish top-light panes "horseshoe up" the back team "horseshoe down". The first windy day i tried the Ted Moult test, still haven`t found the feather!
This was a national firm that advertised on telly at the time, could we get them to put it right? Nah! gave up trying , two of my mates put it right, and did a great job!
|
I have a couple of double glazing con, I mean Salesmen in my extended family,
One lives in Florida now, but don't tell No. 11 or the numerous finance houses that are after him,
The other one (my bro) lives in down-town Biddulph in a 2 bed semi bung,
Some of the stories I could tell thee would make thy eyes water!
The word crook comes to mind.
|
I am still waiting for SoontonotbeEverest Pete to give us his words of wisdom from the inside.
His previous contributions were good.
|
When our windows were being fitted I helped the guy out collecting some parts from his trade suppliers. Interesting just how little the windows cost at source compared with the big name top line prices. Regarding quality all the local firms are getting their windows from the same place whatever their blurb says.... OK windows but more Mondeo than Jaguar.
There is a big window factory in our town but I guess the extrusions might be bought in from China. They seem to make their own glazing units as a new one can be ordered in a matter of hours.
|
Ok I'll bite. If you have a pretty standard house with no particular historic or period details then I would say PVCU is the best choice for quality/cost/choice of design etc. If you can find a company using a eurocell profile it will be very similar to that fitted by Everest but at a fraction of the cost. I would not dissuade from using a local firm provided you can verify their financial state and fitting expertise from recommendations etc.
If you want to spend more then modern aluminium can be found that matches pvcu in terms of energy efficiency/security etc and will look slimmer and neater.
Front doors - a composite grp woodgrain door every time. DONT buy cheap - the grp skins can crack badly, and look for one with a pvcu/steel/high density foam core rather than a timber one which will warp and expand/contract, again stressing the grp and potentially cracking it. Also insure the grp is colourised and not sprayed/coated. If possible try to find one which is 68/70mm thick, the difference in thermal efficiency is noticable as is the strength and solidity.
And apologies for not being on the forum lately - new job has been taking up more time than I imagined!
|
I never, ever, have any dealings with those who ring my front door bell, no matter what the product or religion...:-)
Sometimes I end up having to become quite nasty to get rid of them. One of my favourite retorts, prior to that stage, is to ask them if English is their native language. Normally they say Yes, so I point out they don't seem to understand the word No.
As for national known double-glazing firms the words wouldn't, touch and bargepole come to mind...
|
>> I never, ever, have any dealings with those who ring my front door bell, no
>> matter what the product or religion...
>>
Such a shame you refused that recorded delivery letter notifying you of your jackpot win.
|
>>Such a shame you refused that recorded delivery letter notifying you of your jackpot win. >>
Difficult. I don't do the lotteries..:-)
In any case I get e-mails regularly informing me of the huge sums I have won and how to collect them....
PS
You knew what I meant originally..:-)
|
>> And apologies for not being on the forum lately - new job has been taking
>> up more time than I imagined!
>>
Double Glazing Engineer? ;-)
|
>>If you want to spend more then modern aluminium can be found that matches pvcu in terms of energy efficiency/security etc and will look slimmer and neater.
>>
I spent more and am very happy with my slim aluminium framed windows.
>>Ok I'll bite.
>...And apologies for not being on the forum lately - new job has been taking up more time than I imagined!
>>
Happy to have your inside info and thanks.
The new job comes first
Last edited by: henry k on Mon 18 Jul 11 at 12:47
|
UPVC, good, or avoid like the plague? - R.P.
