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Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 00:29
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Zero,
Even if GB was doing stuff for CF charities before the Sun's 'scoop' I'm not clear why that meant everyone new. Or that everyone was entitled to know.
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...Or that everyone was entitled to know...
The Sun story was a matter of editorial judgment, not a matter of hacking or illegal methods of information gathering.
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He wasn't doing this stuff before his nipper was diagnosed, he was also talking to other CF parents revealing to them his child had CF, he was talking to the CF trust about his childs diagnosis and he was also talking ot his press team about it. His press team were talking to other parents about the best way to present his child's "symptoms" and how to make the best political capital out of it.
The sun did nothing wrong the data was in the public domain, they just ruined his "sympathy debut"
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"best way to present his child's "symptoms" and how to make the best political capital out of it. "
That's a bit cynical, either of you, or him, depending whether you're right.
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I'm no Brown apologist or supporter by a long chalk, but I believe him on this.
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Well I knew about the CF diagnosis before the Sun published it.
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They would say this, wouldn't they?
But The Sun has taken a signed statement from a private individual to explain how they got the story:
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3691260/The-Sun-denies-Brown-son-claims.html
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Very interesting....my sympathy waning somewhat.
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>> sympathy waning somewhat.
No need for that Rob.
The fact that everything, even your child's serious illness, becomes on some important level just grist to your spinners' busy little mills, and that you go along with it because after all that's what you employ them for, doesn't mean that the nipper isn't ill or that you and yours aren't cut up about it.
Being a senior minister in any country including ours would be for any normal human being perpetual exquisite torture combined with grinding, endless 18-hours-a-day drudgery. Even they don't really know what it's going to be like in detail, and I'm surprised more of their wives or husbands don't top themselves in short order or take to the bottle.
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>That's a bit cynical, either of you, or him, depending whether you're right.
I'm on Zero's side here.
Gordon Brown was "in tears" when Rebekah Brooks called him to say that The Sun was running the story about his son?!
It's funny that NI was New Labour's, and particularly Gordon's, mouthpiece at the time. Even The Gruinaud played second fiddle.
Odd that he didn't complain (or use Damian McBride) at the time.
Odd that he went on GMTV a week later to tell his story.
Odd that he was subsequently a guest at Brooks' wedding (so were the Camerons).
Very odd that Brooks was invited to Chequers by the Browns until The Sun switched sides.
Is it a coincidence that he's hardly set foot in the House since he was kicked out of No. 10 but as soon as there's an opportunity to settle old scores he crawls out from under his rock?
The biggest threat from this scandal is that it gives our politicians an excuse to muzzle the press. That would be bad for all of us.
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The Browns did not give the story to the sun.A member of the public did so still a invasion of their privacy.They are still parents who where worried about their son.
That member of the public had no right to that,he was not given permission.Once the story got out what could the Browns do?
The sun still published Hugh Grants medical records what has that got to do with the public?
This Murdoch news corporation is a mesh.
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The Browns did not give the story to the sun.A member of the public did so still a invasion of their privacy
Either the member of the public acquired the news from their job - eg nurse in hospital or was informed by the Browns.
"That member of the public had no right to that,he was not given permission"
Hmm.. How do we know? Were they asked? A categorical statement. Proof please...
(and for the record, GB claimed he would never use his family and children for political ends. And then did. So the reality is I suspect not clear cut.. And Mr Brown is a proven liar - like most politicians)
Last edited by: madf on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 10:04
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...And Mr Brown is a proven liar - like most politicians)...
He is also witless.
The Murdoch papers couldn't be an easier target at the moment, but Brown can't manage a direct hit.
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Now the Americans can smell Murdoch's blood I think he will be in deep doo doo. I think they will be far more effective at dealing with his outfits than the UK will ever be.
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>> ...And Mr Brown is a proven liar - like most politicians)...
>>
>> He is also witless.
>>
>> The Murdoch papers couldn't be an easier target at the moment, but Brown can't manage
>> a direct hit.
>>
Well as it's the only hacking claim immediately denied and there is reasonable proof that the information was already in the public domain and he swore revenge on NI for ditching Labour and he's known to harbour grudges and his emotions cloud his judgement..
then you are right. But no great surprise. A failed politician with little credibility is not likely to be listened to.
Last edited by: madf on Wed 13 Jul 11 at 11:33
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So in the light of what's in the papers today....
The Browns, knowing their son had CF, put some time into engaging with the CF 'community'. It inevitably became known within that community why Gordon and sarah were involved. The Browns were clear they didn't want the information in the public domain. Somebody else with a CF child thought the public should know, becuse it would boost the cause and tipped off the Sun.
The Sun then said we're running it but offered Brown a deal if he was prpeapred to give an interview/exclusive.
IMHO running it was a breach of section 3 of the editors code - respect for family and private life and the corresponding section of the HRA. What's their public interest defence.
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...IMHO running it was a breach of section 3 of the editors code...
That will be part of the reason for getting the Browns onside.
Editorially, it's not the type of story anyone would want to do unless the parents were involved.
People who know nothing of journalism will assume The Sun would have used it anyway, but I doubt they would.
Apart from anything else, it's almost impossible to do without the extra information that only the parents can provide.
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>> So in the light of what's in the papers today....
You missed a vital point? Browns press team engaging with the CF community as well.
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>> You missed a vital point? Browns press team engaging with the CF community as well.
In what way did they engage? If the PM or Chancellor (or other senior minister) are attending anything other than a closed meeting it's 'news' and involves the press office.
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His press agent spoke to the CF trust and parents, brown was not present.
It was a personal tragedy that he was preparing to use for personal political ends,.
Clearly you are not prepared to believe that Brown was preparing to do this, and I am not going to convince you so I shall leave it at that point.
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Come on Zero that is cynical,
I don't like politicians but what gain did Brown get out of this.?
Never mind we all entitled to our opinion.
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Brown swore revenge on NI for ditching Labour pre election and you always kick an opponent when they are down.
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Was about to post same thing Iffy. Don't think they've given up altogether though. Just recognise that now is not the time.
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...Don't think they've given up altogether though. Just recognise that now is not the time...
Almost certainly, although they are officially out of the picture for six months, which is a possible opportunity for someone else.
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>> a possible opportunity for someone else.
If your bid is successful, Iffy, allow me to offer my services as a columnist.
Does a tenner a word sound all right?
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Difficult for someone else to take over Sky when News Corp already owns 40% of it though.
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>> >> a possible opportunity for someone else.
>>
>> If your bid is successful, Iffy, allow me to offer my services as a columnist.
>>
>>
>> Does a tenner a word sound all right?
>>
Cheap . Mr Hari plagiarises and charges more than that, Quote from War and Peace and become rich in a month :-)
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If your bid is successful, Iffy, allow me to offer my cash as a customer. Couldn't bear to give it to Murdoch but I'll give it to just about anyone else to have live cricket again.
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If Brown was truly distressed at the news of his son's illness being ruthlessly exploited by a tabloid newspaper, to the extent a grown man cried..then why would he attend that newspaper editor's wedding.. with his wife... who would no doubt be equally upset, or even more so...and then invite the same editor to Chequers?
Doesn't add up.
My missus would be spitting fire eternally on the subject...and no amount of cajoling from me about how 'good it was for business' would change her mind.
Something wrong with that yarn.
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Well NI's legal head has resigned..
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8634640/News-International-legal-manager-leaves-in-hacking-scandal.html
Hmm.. I am sure it is just a co-incidence that the Met are talking of deliberate concealment of corruption evidence... which is of course a criminal act...
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What an unedifying bun fight this has now become.
One thing that has surprised me, is how amateurish the Commons select committee is coming across. Surely they could have put across a more professional image.
Some political commentators have been saying that MP's now have the chance to 'fight back' from the expenses scandals...and have a go at the two areas that gave them grief i.e. the Old Bill and the Press...and having watched some of the countries top cops being grilled......that's exactly what it looked like.....bungling, school boy type rudeness, instead of sharp, pertinent, polite questioning to establish some facts.
Let's face it, some top police officers have serious egg on their faces, because they didn't delve at all or deeply enough in to some evidence...and/or News International failed to properly hand over evidence when required....yet some of the questioning from the MP's was seemingly without the knowledge that minor celebrity phone hacking wouldn't have been a police priority in the middle of a terrorism crisis (or at any other time in all likelihood)..and...you don't just stroll down to a newspaper with a local Magistrates warrant to seize all their computers, there are other legal protocols involved, that require them to co-operate (whicn NI ignored)...otherwise the confidentiality of journalism would be put at risk, by having some cops size 9's treading all over their day to day, confidential work, for perhaps reasons that didn't justify the Old Bill looking.
Some cheap points scoring by select committee MP's detracts from the bigger picture. Surely they'd know the above...wouldn't they? Surely asking a senior police officer 'are you not surprised someone being investigated might hide evidence and not provide it when asked' only highlights their own ignorance...played out in front of the country on a t.v. camera. Is this the best we can do?
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MPs are nothing more than social climbers, some of them after a bit of power. They have no training, there is no entrance exam, no minimum standards for entry, or any ongoing performance evaluation.
>> Is this the best we can do?
Alas, yes.
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Blame the Chairman of that slect committe: he should control it.
Most MPs are just overpaid incompetents...and largely represent the capabilities of the voters that elected them..
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Rebekah will be appearing before the commons commitee. Rupert will not and James is unavailable.
Should be compulsive viewing.
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...Rupert will not and James is unavailable...
There's now stories of the pair of them being issued with a House of Commons summons to appear.
Brings to mind visions of a man in a wig, tights and breeches tapping on their door with pikestaff.
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They've both now agreed to attend....as had Brookes
FBI are now investigating NI for hacking voice mails of 9/11 victims' relatives....not good for them. The storm clouds are gathering...
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 14 Jul 11 at 21:13
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>> They've both now agreed to attend....as had Brookes
>>
>> FBI are now investigating NI for hacking voice mails of 9/11 victims' relatives....not good for
>> them. The storm clouds are gathering...
The yanks didn't want to be left out, or come to terms with the idea they were not important enough to hack, and it makes great publicity for some senator or other, jumping on the 9-11 sympathy bandwagon..
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 14 Jul 11 at 21:39
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Fox has a pretty poor reputation in the US - Am I right in thinking that ?
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Oh yes, it is. Universally derided as being low brow trash television, even by US standards. That includes Fox news.
Even the Simpson, which is a fox produced programe, insults the fox network output.
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>> >> They've both now agreed to attend....as had Brookes
>> >>
>> >> FBI are now investigating NI for hacking voice mails of 9/11 victims' relatives....not good
>> for
>> >> them. The storm clouds are gathering...
>>
>> The yanks didn't want to be left out, or come to terms with the idea
>> they were not important enough to hack, and it makes great publicity for some senator
>> or other, jumping on the 9-11 sympathy bandwagon..
The FBI are now dropping this, after it was revealed the information came from a single second hand source who can now not be found and was supplied by the Daily Mirror.
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I haven't read all the threads but what strikes me about this whole thing is how they are protecting Brookes.
What does she know that forces NI to sacrifice NOTW and put some executive up as a sacrifice ? To my mind this is what is driving the story.
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Yeah, Murdoch is a shrewd tough operator, I have been wondering all this time why he hasnt thrown her to the wolves.
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I've come across this behaviour in the corporate world (on a much smaller scale) - she knows where the bodies are buried, that makes, her almost fireproof.
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 14 Jul 11 at 21:50
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Had they thrown her to the wolves they could have snuffed this story down.
Clearly the Politicos (blair, brown, cameron) have purged their skeletons to start the hue and cry, but it took them a few days to sort it out!
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Cameron went quiet for a few days didn't he...
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Labour were singing from the party hymnsheet, going down the hair-shirt route - "we should have done something about it, but didn't" from various talking heads. I think that the end of the Murdoch Empire is nigh - shame, I used to enjoy hating them.
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>> I think that the end of the Murdoch Empire is nigh - shame, I used to enjoy hating >> them.
There's a massive power vacuum opened in the last 96 hours. Will be very interesting to see how it's filled.
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Why the impartial BBC of course.
It would be nice to have a true independent but that will never happen as long as I draw breath or have a hole in my bum.
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It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I wouldn't wager anything on News Corp failing in any way and the Murdoch family not owning most of it. Brooks will probably be sacrificed when appropriate... the skeletons will be found regardless.
I have a feeling the tabloid media (all of it), the police and politicians are very inter-linked and maybe it's best leaving some of this covered up for now. Our economy is near bankrupt as it is.
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Like so many Prime ministers before him this could a turning point for David Cameron.
He appears so above board and not guilty.He employed Andy Coulson as director of communication knowing very well about his background at News of the World.
Cameron became close friends with Rebekha Brooks who should have gone by now.
Cameron moved in a social circle the Chipping Norton Club a collection of rich powercrazy Londeners in his voting area of Oxfordshire.Rebekha Brooks and her husband have a house less than a mile from Cameron.They see each other regulary and even did so after the Telephone hacking scandal.
Spindoctor Matthew Feud who is married to Elisa Beth Murdoch the daughter of R Murdoch is another member of this Chipping Norton Club.Good friends of the Camerons.
The Editor of the Newspaper the Guardion warned one of Cameron closest advisers about Andy Coulson just before the electon.Alan Rusbridger had information about Coulson.
Nick Clegg and David Cameron are not without blame.
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You're reading too much into this Dutchie.
Move along, nothing to see here, will be the message from the impartial mejia
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic
Yeah, Nothing to see here, please disperse.
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You do like to exaggerate Z !
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Calls for the Met Police commissioner to go now. Maybe he should?
How stupid are some of the people in the most senior positions in this country? Between us we could do a better job! Maybe I should try to be an MP in future. And commute to Tuscany and claim expenses.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 14 Jul 11 at 23:22
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Maybe an idea for a weekend thread Rob. A car4play dream team for running the country.
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It's always the weekend on here isn't it? Rattle would have trams, trains and buses for starters. He'd enjoy that. I'll think what Z can do.
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You could probably get away with commuting as far as the Eurothingummybob goes, Brussels, Lille, Amsterdam, Paris.
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Thanks Zero nice little film.:) Godverdomme.
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You shirley can't be serious?
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>> Yeah, he did,
Wasn't there a bit of globetrotting, you know, baby-kissing in foreign languages, shaking hands with murderers, all that statesmanship stuff? Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else. Skinny woman who looks ghastly in a white cowboy hat, followed by a nondescript geezer in jeans... Posh and Becks, someone like that. But I think it was the prime minister.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 15 Jul 11 at 04:52
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>Clearly the Politicos (blair, brown, cameron) have purged their skeletons to start the hue and cry,
This hue and cry is all to protect the public from evil media barons of course. They aren't using the Dowlers, Holly and Jessicas parents or squadies families to further their own personal agendas. They wouldn't do that would they?
The main Politicos who've kept this simmering since the Met kicked the original case into the long grass are John Prescott, Chris Bryant MP and Tom Watson MP.
Surely Lord Chipolata of Hull has no axe to grind with News International does he?
Chris Bryant wouldn't be upset if the picture he took of himself in his shreddies and posted to a gay dating site was given broader circulation?
And Tom Watson is a pretty honourable guy isn't he?
Oh wait..!
Is this the same Tom Watson who was claiming £100 a week in un-receipted expenses for groceries? The same Tom Watson who wasn't briefing against Blair but chased up to Scotland to talk to Gollum Brown about his son on the eve of the attempted coup against TB? The same Tom Watson mentioned in emails between Damian McBride and Derek Draper discussing the disgusting smear campaign against opposition MPs but knew nothing about it?
Nah, there must be two Tom Watson MPs.
One thing that I find quite amusing is that none of them have mentioned forcing network providers to disable voicemail on all accounts until the PIN has been changed from the default.
Last edited by: Kevin on Fri 15 Jul 11 at 00:26
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On Vodafone, you can only access voicemail from another phone if you've changed the PIN from the default. At least that used to be the case Although at one point you got two mobile numbers (one for phone and other for voicemail) and now the voicemail access has changed.
There is a lot we probably don't want to come out of this for the sake of the country though. Move along nothing to see.
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>There is a lot we probably don't want to come out of this for the sake of the
>country though. Move along nothing to see.
On the contrary, for the sake of the country everything needs to come out.
What will a cover-up achieve?
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Something needs to come out but this should have come out 4 years ago.
A lot could get worse for us... glad I don't have any debt!
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Ms Brooks has quit.
I suspect self-preservation is the motive, she is now free to look after her own interests, rather than those of her former employers.
tinyurl.com/5wuddeu
Last edited by: Iffy on Fri 15 Jul 11 at 10:55
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That Brooks person is one ugly bint!
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>> Going down like nine-pins now.
>>
Do you reckon the whole damned lot will go?
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The shredders must be working hard, some MP's could probably recommend a decent one.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 16 Jul 11 at 12:36
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>> >> Going down like nine-pins now.
>> >>
>> Do you reckon the whole damned lot will go?
>>
It's going to spread to other newspapers, the Met Commissioner looks hopelessly compromised, the legal firm that examined the NOW emails has lost its managing partner (it would appear the emails contained evidence of criminal acts: he passed them as OK), and James Murdoch looks hopelessly exposed..
I need to buy more popcorn..
Mr Murdoch is discovering who his true friends are: no-one...
Last edited by: madf on Sat 16 Jul 11 at 20:22
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Can't help thinking that this is just the start of it. Senior Officers in the Met will be shaking in their boots in the teeth of this upcoming enquiry.
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Investment opportunity, ICI still doing whitewash?
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From a few days ago I did wonder if the original police investigation went nowhere because of what would come out. And whilst Cameron was foolish I would not be surprised if there were things in labour's closet that come out.
So not only did a NOW executive do PR work for the commissioner at the met, there's now something about accommodation at a spa type place being paid for and the commissioner dined with News International executive numerous times.
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....and the ex cop boss who now works for News International....
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Nothing is going to come from appearing before the parliamentary committee, they will be too interested in spouting off sound bites and trying to look clever, but not having the brains to ask the right questions in the right order.
The interesting thing will be the judicial enquiry.
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That's the one I had in mind. Heads will roll I reckon.
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The parliamentary enquiry is merely entertaining - what powers do they even have? But I do wonder if something they say/do will impact a proper inquiry and any subsequent trials which may no longer be fair.
The policy chief last week that I mentioned was a bit of a twit didn't appear to smart. He'd get ripped to pieces by a barrister under oath.
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The more I read of the Met,the clearer it is that they may not be corrupt in terms of taking money but from a legal perspective they are hopelessly compromised in terms of favours received.
No way can the Commissioner nor any of the existing reportees to him be considered untouched and impartial..
Al Capone would be proud of News International...
Parliamentary Committee? Waste of space in my view.
Last edited by: madf on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 08:06
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tgr.ph/n6pFgJ
(Daily Telegraph)
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Brooks has now been arrested.
This could get interesting.
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Some of a suspicious mind might say the timing of the arrest was rather convenient for the police and Ms Brooks as she will now be able to claim that she is unable to answer the questions due to be posed to her on Tuesday by the Select Committee on the grounds that it might prejudice her defence.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 19:11
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>> Ms Brooks as she will now be able to claim that
>> she is unable to answer the questions due to be posed to her on Tuesday
>> by the Select Committee on the grounds that it might prejudice her defence.
>>
Or, on the other hand, she could blurt out a lot of things and then later claim that she can't get/didn't get a fair trial.
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Wait till the news of NI links to Blair/Brown come out - which they will..
Someone is going to kick and tell
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What are they going to tell? That we are ruled by a devious bunch of sheisters.Past and present.
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I don't know what to make of the recent shenanigans come to light with the most senior cops in London.
If you were to be charitable, you'd say there's been a fair degree of naivety. If you weren't, well that's not a pleasant thought.
I'd be sad to see Paul Stephenson go. Compared to the previous buffoon, he is a breath of fresh air. My impression is, that he'd fall on his sword if he thought he'd truly done wrong. Proof will be in the pudding...and I suspect we won't have to wait long before that pudding is served.
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In all honesty Westpig, I cannot believe that naivety comes into this - at his level(or levels past) he's dealt with troops on fizzers who've been caught doing stuff....
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It could be worse, (Ex) Commander Jamshid Ali Dizaei could have climbed the slippery pole to the top.
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>> I don't know what to make of the recent shenanigans come to light with the
>> most senior cops in London.
>>
>> If you were to be charitable, you'd say there's been a fair degree of naivety.
>> If you weren't, well that's not a pleasant thought.
>>
>> >>
Hmm so someone earning £275,000 a year is naive and easily misled?
Pull the other one.
To me reading between the lines a potential interpretation - which of course is scandalous and incorrect but possible but who would believe it if written a year ago? - to anyone who reads what has gone on and who has resigned that a likely interpretation of events could be construed as follows:
2007:
NI Directors (note Brooks was Editor of NOW at time ) realise they have a major scandal on their hands with Royal hacking being only the tip of a very big hacking iceberg the size of Greenland.
They construct a fake legal review of 300 plus emails by a legal firm: and NI's legal guy makes sure the legal firm's MD makes sure it's a whitewash (both parties have now resigned in the past 12 months). This says it was the Royal Reporter what dun it.. He of course went to jail.the police investigated and found nowt. The officer in charge of the police investigation, Andy Hayman, subsequently left the Metropolitan Police to work for News International as a columnist
This is what they tell police and Parliament.
Police of course are effectively paid off by NOW getting free meals, free accommodation and PR assistance which reports back as a third column to NI... Met don't want to lose perks and besides the Government are firmly in bed with NI and need their support for next election...
They tell Rupert Murdoch it's all storm in teacup. Some celebs can prove they are hacked thus disproving the above, but they are paid off huge sums and confidentiality agreements to keep schtum..
Rupert is not told all this and still believes Rebekka is pure as driven snow so when the brown stuff hits fun, she investigates herself with Rupert's full blessing (Rupert is 80 now and tends to nod off at times allegedly).
Finally it becomes clear that what NI London says conflicts with reality...of what is reported.
Rupert gets a Main Board director - a lawyer to review evidence. He takes fresh legal advice on 300 emails and finds evidence of criminality.. NI London Legal guy resigns. Elizabeth Murdoch rants - in public abut Rebekkah so giving PR cover for Rebekka to "resign"...
It appears to be the Met are effectively corrupt at the very top or at best in NI's pocket seeing no evil and not wanting to..
NI in UK were run by James Murdoch who saw no evil because he was not a paper person and Rebekka dazzled him with her paper know how... He instead was BSy B - a success - and ignored the NOW and the scandals. and wanted them washed away.. so Rebekka was personal grata as she did..
Phone hacking is of course allegedly not confined to NI. Papers mentioned - with no proof - include teh Mirror, The Daily Mail and the Telgraph. I am sure they are all innocent and would never do such things..
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Well the Commissioner's quit. Nine pins !
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Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has announced his resignation following the phone hacking scandal.
Britain's most senior police officer said he had no knowledge of the extent of the practice and said his integrity was "completely intact".
So why quit?
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Any suggestion of perverting the course of justice is entirely incorrect..
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Well it is possible that as top man he is taking responsibility for the failings of those he employed and who report to him. Old fashioned idea I know.
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The Twitter account @ExNOTWjourno2 has been half a day ahead of the news all week... including this.
twitter.com/#!/ExNOTWjourno2
Interesting reading.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 19:59
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I think it's more basic like that his alleged 5 week, 12k trip to Tring at the paper's expense may have more to do with it. Old fashioned idea corruption.
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Inspector Knacker falls on his truncheon!
Oooooooooooooer!
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So for many, the beauty of our country is our democratically elected government, the independent and non corrupt police force, and the freedom to speak press.
Something tells me this country is kaput!
Surely no way Cameron can avoid the gunfire with this scandal, he still does not seem to realise that Coulson must have been blatantly lying to him. That is, assuming of course, that Cameron did at some point ask Coulson the question?
Up here in Scotland where Alex Salmond is always quick to give his opinion on anything, he has suddenly became very quiet. The Scottish Sun supported his party at the last election.
In a way, this could actually be the best thing to happen to our country but it also puts into consideration the whole idea of business networking.
So in any line of business, where you meet clients or suppliers or have corporate hospitality or whatever, at some point in the future, it could come back to bite you hard if it turns out one of them has not been playing ball.
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News of the World Hacking scandal. Vol 3 - Bromptonaut
