Gah!
I've just been into our local B&Q as we've decided to have a new kitchen and bathroom fitted. It was an initial visit, just to get some brochures and for a quick shufti. The chap skulking amongst the kitchen displays (which looked distinctly underwhelming I have to say) greeted me with a slight incline of the head and a 'Can I help you mate?'. A good few of my questions were met with a blank look and a 'Not sure mate, the bloke who deals with that is off today', which was not helpful in the least.
By contrast, I also called in to our local Wickes kitchen and bathroom showroom and was greeted by a smartly dressed, courteous chap who took the time to go through my requirements and answer my (probably very silly) questions patiently and efficiently. And not once did he call me 'mate'.
Now, I'm not a snob and I don't generally expect those working in the service industry to fawn over me in the most obsequious manner possible but I do not expect to be called 'mate' when I'm looking for information that may lead to me spending close to £10,000. I don't think that I'm being unreasonable, am I?
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A little off thread, but we have recently had our kitchen refitted. To start with we went to all of the usual places and got prices and plans. Not far from us is a family run made to measure kitchen workshop which we would pass by assuming they would be far too expensive.
My wife did pop in one day as a matter of interest and had them in to give us their price and plan for the work. It turned out that they were more expensive, but not by a great amount. Units were built to fit, rather than have the standard ones put in with filler bits where they didn't fill the space enough and were made floor to ceiling where required.
Prior to ordering we were shown around the workshop to see their set up. Also during fitting by our builder they were always available to answer any questions and they popped round several times to see that all was well.
Also they were able to get the ovens, fridge, dish washer at better prices than the sheds.
We are very pleased with the outcome, so may be worth a look if you have someone similar nearby.
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We got a quote for a new kitchen from B&Q recently. £20k. Wickes also £20k, John Lewis £22k.
An near identical kitchen from IKEA? £10k.
All quotes include all removal/fitting works and flooring.
Guess which one's getting the order?
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>> We got a quote for a new kitchen from B&Q recently. £20k. Wickes also £20k,
>> John Lewis £22k.
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>> An near identical kitchen from IKEA? £10k.
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>> All quotes include all removal/fitting works and flooring.
>>
>> Guess which one's getting the order?
Kinell!
I did my kitchen, to top spec, all in, for less than 5k. Mind I did ALL the work.
I always go Wickes, never been let down or disappointed by the planning or delivery. Get my vote every time.
Wouldn't touch Ikea with a barge pole.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 16:22
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Wickes do a better kitchen than B&Q anyway, mate.
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I am doing none of it myself. S0d that.
IKEA use outsourced fitters these days, they've replaced MFI I suppose.
I've seen a few of their kitchens at other houses and the quality is fine, if it's fitted well.
I'm not prepared to pay Wickes 100% more.
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>> I'm not prepared to pay Wickes 100% more.
They are 50% cheaper than anyone else for a reason. Something don't add up, and its not the actual kitchen units.
My nose says something is missing.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 16:33
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I can assure you that's not the case. The quotes are like for like.
Wickes and B&Q are 100% dearer for a reason. They're trying to stitch me up.
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>> I can assure you that's not the case. The quotes are like for like.
>>
>> Wickes and B&Q are 100% dearer for a reason. They're trying to stitch me up.
Yeah, Ok, if thats what you think, carry on then.
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I have all the quotes printed out and listed item by item. The IKEA worktops, cabinets and doors are spectacularly cheaper then elsewhere, and judging by the showrooms the quality of the materials is equal. The IKEA appliances are manufactured by Whirlpool in fact, and those supplied by the others (JL excluded) appear to be no-name tat.
There is nothing in the expensive quotes which isn't in the IKEA one. If you think Wickes's cabinets and installation are worth 100% more than IKEA's, then you carry on.
I think your opinion of IKEA is outdated.
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Not at all, just that 50% off the going price means something is missing. Nothing to do with the source.
But hey, its your money. Northing to do with me.
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You've totally lost me. I've done the homework, nothing is missing.
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>> I've done the homework, nothing is missing.
Do they always use their own fitters or do they sub-contract?
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>> My nose says something is missing.
I'm inclined to agree. We had three quotes for our kitchen a couple of years ago and there wasn't much between them.
A horribly expensive job unless you are able do it yourself.
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Vis a Vis "Mate" what is this trend of many people being referred to as "Guys"? The gentleman who has just duffed up Federer is appernently "A guy who is loved by the crowd". No he isn't - he is a player. Murray looks a bit like a guy but doesn't care!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 16:30
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£20k for a kitchen? I am doing the wrong job!
Personally though if I was getting a kitchen I would do all the project management my self and save £1000s.
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No-one is charging me for "Project Management". My quotes are for cabinets, worktops, appliances and fitting. No line items for a PM, there is nothing to be saved there. Planning and measuring is free.
If you mean you'd do the physical fitting yourself, yes that'd save 1000s. I don't have the time nor the energy, nor the skill, nor the tools. It will be 1000s well spent.
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£20,000 for a kitchen! - you can buy a whole owse for that on the Falls Road.
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It's a big kitchen. In a much more commutable location than the Falls Road!
I seem to remember a thread on here suggesting that 20k could buy near on a whole terrace of houses in Hartlepool. Still, I need a kitchen in Reading, not a manor in Hartlepool.
And I won't be spending 20k, particularly not at B&Q. They are simply offering the same quality product as IKEA at a higher price. No thanks.
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Just looked at the Ikea cabinet caracasses.
You checked out how they assemble?
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Reading...why didn't you say. Got lots of acquaintances around there. Wealthy ones too. Perceived up market area when it is in fact as rubbish as most places. Prices to suit too.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 00:45
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Most Kitchens fitted in no more than a week. Work the labour costs out for yerself..............and be generous. It's just a crap game haunted by 'P' takers and Plumbers. If you are buying stock units (not having it 'made' and hand painted) then it is just a number of boxes etc. Plumbing is an overrated pastime for lazy B's. It is plumbing....not central heating.
Get a grip.
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>> Get a grip.
>>
Is that addressed to me? What am I supposed to be getting a grip on?
Your comments about Reading are wide of the mark and outdated. Some of it is pretty horrible, as with all big towns. Most of it is pretty pleasant. Especially the bit I've chosen to live in.
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Some eye watering prices being quoted here, for kitchens you could try to find an ex display in one of the high end kitchen showrooms...they can replan it into your existing kitchen, massive savings and real wood not chipboard, SWM's previous kitchen was the business and cost less than an MFI jobbie, by doing exactly this.
I have a on old friend (plumber but very handy at all works) currently refurbing both our bathrooms, en suite being turned into a wet room plus storage at the far end, plus main bathroom.
Losing the bidet in the main room to provide airing cupboard, thermostatic bum guns in both rooms instead.
Extensive works involved, some shopping around by us is seeing both refitted in quality fitments, new rads, lights etc and full pukka tiling for around £6k all in.
We used Walls and Floors for our tile requirements...a competent young man at their local showroom put up with us and SWM's changing of the mind without batting an eyelid, arranged lots of samples...nothing was too much trouble...consequently we didn't look elsewhere, and he got us free delivery.
SWM will be sending a note to the gaffer of the company in praise of this commendable fellow, who didn't call me mate either.
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Just realised why those prices are so high.
Built in appliances, the cost of them is ridiculous.
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>> Built in appliances, the cost of them is ridiculous.
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Aye, you're not wrong. Mrs A insists on them. I object. The result is inevitable.
Still, she owns twice what I do - if she wants them, she can have them.
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>> Built in appliances, the cost of them is ridiculous.
Try talking my wife out of that...
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>> Just realised why those prices are so high.
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>> Built in appliances, the cost of them is ridiculous.
Not really. Got fridge, freezer, double oven, hob, dishwasher - all branded, all at same price as standalone units.
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I don't think I know what a "fitted" unit is as opposed to a "standalone" one, and I'm quite sure Mrs C doesn't.
But in the unlikely event we ever save anything like enough to even think about doing anything with the kitchen it sounds like I'd best steer her away from them!
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It gets worse, you can have fitted, integrated, semi integrated, or stand alone, or free standing.
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The only one of those that appeals is the free one.
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>> Some eye watering prices being quoted here, for kitchens you could try to find an
>> ex display in one of the high end kitchen showrooms...
My kitchen is quite large and of quite an odd shape, with several nooks and crannies. It would take an huge amount of luck and footwork to locate an ex-display kitchen which would give us all the units we need in the right shapes.
I'm sure that approach would work for some, but it won't do for us.
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Own fitters or sub-contract, Alanovic?
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>> Own fitters or sub-contract, Alanovic?
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They don't have their own fitters. They are all local un-bovvered subbies. Trust me.
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>> Own fitters or sub-contract...
>> They don't have their own fitters. They are all local un-bovvered subbies. Trust me.
Ok, I'll put it another way. Will they be using a fitting team that works for them five days a week, whether salaried or self employed, or will they be using teams that they only employ when they have more work on their hands than their regular fitters can cope with?
I always insist on the former, even if that means waiting a couple of months as it did with the excellent kitchen we had installed a while ago.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 10:38
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Much like ours Alanovic. The woman at B & Q even told my wife she couldn't have the ceramic sink she wanted, not a butler's sink type but set in, because it wouldn't look right. That didn't go down well. We now have the sink she wanted and it looks wonderful.
The odd shapes etc of the kitchen gave the shed kitchen planners a lot of grief, trying to fit their fixed sized units in.
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>> The odd shapes etc of the kitchen gave the shed kitchen planners a lot of
>> grief, trying to fit their fixed sized units in.
>>
Ikea uses fixed sized units. Most of the off the shelf kitchen suppliers do.
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Much like ours Alanovic. The woman at B & Q even told my wife she couldn't have the ceramic sink she wanted, not a butler's sink type but set in, because it wouldn't look right. That didn't go down well. We now have the sink she wanted and it looks wonderful.
The odd shapes etc of the kitchen gave the shed kitchen planners a lot of grief, trying to fit their fixed sized units in.
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I had our kitchen and utility room units built to a design by an indie specialist in '98 - the whole shooting match cost 5.5k - Good quality carcasses and wooden doors/drawer fronts - I reckon that I'd have needed 5k and more for the work tops now. The indie firm has gone bust now sadly.
And they wore well, the buyers have inherited a slightly old fashioned but serviceable in every respect kitchen, the doors and drawer action stand head and shoulders over the ones in our new house.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 17:39
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>> the whole shooting match cost 5.5k The indie firm has gone bust now sadly.
Maybe they were selling themselves short. A lot of businesses are especially now.
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>> £20k for a kitchen? I am doing the wrong job!
>>
>> Personally though if I was getting a kitchen I would do all the project management
>> my self and save £1000s.
>>
Project manage a Kitchen Rats!! Get a life.
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I never cease to be amazed at the cost people pay for Kitchens. 20K!!!!!!!! Is someone having a laugh?
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Maybe you should get into that business Martin. Have a designer haircut, wear tight jeans and flounce a bit when your called in for a quote. Got to be worth a try...
:-)
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If you're spending £10k then I'd expect decent treatment. Go to Wickes and write to the manager of the B&Q store and tell them why you are spending your money elsewhere.
B & Q are a joke. Their reserve and collect system lets you reserve items which are not in stock and have never been in stock for ages! Had one wasted trip as item was shown in stock and there was only the display model which I couldn't buy and none were on order. Then ordered it online as it was showing in stock at another store only to have them contact me to say it wasn't. Considering I'd reserved it between store close on Saturday and store open on Sunday their stock system should be accurate!
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I had a kitchen supplied by B&Q and fitted by their contractors quite a few years ago. Unfortunately I was working at Heathrow when the fitting was going on, and arrived home just as they were packing up and trying to talk the then Mrs Ash into signing the work off. I took one look, refused to sign off for the first fitting team, and raised hell the next day at the local store with the guy who'd sold it.
Several weeks later we had a "rectification" team in; I refused to sign their work off too. An area manager followed, there was a rather heated discussion during which he tried to convince me having worktops on one side the kitchen 2" lower than on the other side was normal practice.
Another fitter was sent in - supposedly working for B&Q not their contractor, and supposedly their finest. I refused to sign his work off too.
A week of increasingly irate calls resulted in my bringing a carpenter who was recommended by a neighbour in to look at the kitchen - units were pulled out and photos were taken. The standard of the work, especially the electrics varied between appalling and lethal.
I had a recorded delivery letter in the post to the MD next day with prints of the photos. Less than a week later B&Q made an offer of refunding the cost of fitting, paying my carpenter to do the work, and providing all replacement materials free of charge.
One week later my carpenter and a competent electrician had completed the kitchen; it looked far better, although they did make comments about making a silk purse, etc. They've fitted kitchens for several friends since on my recommendation, and everyone who's used them has been impressed with their standard of work.
Suffice to say, when I replace this kitchen I will get a competent craftsman to fit it, and will not buy cheap cupboards.
I've kept some of the photos the carpenter took - s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc439/Ash_Tr/ - for anyone who wants to see what a cheap fitting service results in below the surface.
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Some good friends of ours had an IKEA kitchen fitted by the friend's brother-in-law (general handyman) last year. The kitchen was 40-50% cheaper than all other supply only quotes, but none of us, including the guy who fitted it, can work out where they saved the money. The quality is up there with the Wickes and B&Q kitchens they were also looking at, everything went together and in painlessly, and a year of hard use later, it still looks like it was installed yesterday.
We are currently saving for a new kitchen, and IKEA will be the first place we look.
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IKEA is a big outfit probly the savings are on the volume they sell.
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The money is not in the carcasses, they should be dirt cheap in the sale and at sale prices I can get them at the same price in Wickes as the ones in Ikea. The money is in the Doors and door furntiture. . My Wickes ones are solid wood, the ikea ones are not.
You buy the worktops from a local supplier, cheaper than wickes or ikea, good quality ones in much longer runs too, and they will mitre the corner joins for you for not much money.
Appliances, you get off the net, far cheaper than any of the sheds wickes or ikea unless you choose the sale to get the "freebies" (got a free dishwasher which we then sold and bought a bosch). Lighting, off the web. Tiles - off the web or a batch lot of discontinued tiles from your local tile warehouse.
Martin laughed at the idea of a project manager, but kitchens require some good planning, but its not rocket science. If you are not doing it yourself, you need to get the trades in at the right times to do all the work.
The real money pit is the fitting, plumbing and sparks. Any money saved here from one of the sheds is crap workmanship.
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>> I've kept some of the photos the carpenter took - s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc439/Ash_Tr/ -
Wow, I love the crimps on the mains wire. classic.
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>> I've kept some of the photos the carpenter took - s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc439/Ash_Tr/ - for anyone who
>> wants to see what a cheap fitting service results in below the surface.
>>
I would have had these monkeys for breakfast. Sadly though it is reasonably safe to say that this standard of work is in the majority. Some of the stuff I see leaves me speechless (yes I know you find that hard to believe)!! As an aside, I currently have one 'Surveyor' deciding if he will risk court or do the honourable thing.
If they call you Mate, shrug, sniff, are playing music or are distracted from YOU...then walk away. There are other options, although few and far between.
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You are so RIGHT Badwolf (Mate) o:-)
Wickes is owned by Travis Perkins by the way.
I would tell off the person that said Mate to me in that environment. The problem today though is who to complain to.
M.
still trying to evade the swear filter then Martin
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 00:47
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I covered an industrial tribunal involving a B&Q fitted kitchen saleswoman.
For the purpose of this thread, it told me the commission on B&Q kitchen sales is huge, we are talking thousands in some cases.
I suspect both Ikea and B&Q generally do a good job and the quality of the kitchens is similar, but Ikea are prepared to work for lower profit margins.
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It's what they're willing to work in for you as well. I bought a house last year and had the opportunity to put in a brand new kitchen with exactly what I wanted in it. Wickes won, because they were willing to plan it properly, and sell me one of those giant hob/ovens, which B&Q said wouldn't fit. All appliances, 'hidden' fridge, dishwasher. Black gloss finish. Lovely. They supplied me extra worktops too as I wanted a breakfast bar building in a non-standard shape. Local lads to fit it. Whole lot under £6k, for a large kitchen.
The fella didn't call me mate.
On the other hand, the woman in Magnet took one look at us and obviously judged that the two studenty types asking about kitchens weren't worth her getting off her backside for a chat.
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Recently bought some Ikea kitchen cupboards.
The carcass sides are 18mm not 15mm. Due to time constraints I got a good guy to do the tricky installation and I am well pleased my design worked out.
The white doors were very inexpensive but oviously a plastic skin on some sort of particle board.
A few years ago due to pressure from SWMBO re time to install etc we finished up with a Magnet. kitchen
Always available in their sale but all the other bits are not.
Biggest draw back is that all base units have a 10cm gap at the back for plumbing so you use a lot of volume on all base units.
I had strong words with the contractor and told him to RTFM cos even if he was a Corgi he was not cutting holes in my worksurface for boiler ventilation as my boiler was exempt.
No wiring and little plumbing done so avoided those problems.
I guess " normal" work sufaces have improved since then but on ours the skin did not extend very far on the underside of the front edge so water got in and we got the wheetabix effect.
On advice and experience from friends, next time we will be having most if not all base units with deep drawers not doors.
I have also been to worktop suppliers and had a good experience with cut to size / mitre etc.
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I sealed the back of my worktops before they went in, and under the front post formed has a waterproof membrane with built in drip channel. You have to have a gap at the back of all units to enable services and fixing to uneven walls. If they all fit all the way back you have to have very straight walls indeed.
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Just making sure you're awake Sir.
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My cousin's company does sub contract installation work for some of the major kitchen and bathroom outfits.
A couple of years ago they were asked to do installation work in Cheshire for B&Q. The first job was a complete nightmare so he refused to do any more work for them.
For good quality affordable kitchen units he recommends Howdens. They have a good range of designs and the units are delivered assembled so it makes the fitting job much easier and quicker.
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>>For good quality affordable kitchen units he recommends Howdens.
>> They have a good range of designs and the units are delivered assembled so it makes the fitting job much easier and quicker.
>>
Howdens is trade only. It was owned by MFI but not sure where it is today.
What have MFI and the goverment got in common?
One screw in the wrong place and the whole cabinet collapses.
Hat......
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>> Howdens is trade only. It was owned by MFI but not sure where it is
>> today.
It is but its still easy to buy in person. Howdens were the carpentry arm of MFI but were sold off before the MFI collapse. SOmne of their stuff is not brilliant, I have seen stapled together units, with nasy 13mm or 15mm boards.
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My own experiences with our largest B&Q have been outstanding.
First name terms with the planner and the lady in the shop. Good solid advice and any snags sorted at once. I spent a tad over £4500 with them in early 2009 and did all the fitting, electric, plumbing, demolition of chimney breast and fitting of new windows and door myself.
Any problems with delivered stuff have been sorted out pleasantly and promptly...No ' You must have broken that, mate ' No quibble at all.
A refreshing experience for us. We've been back many times for other stuff and always seek out ' our ' lady for a chat.
Diff'rent stores..diff'rent attitudes and people, I suppose.
Ted
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We've done all our kitchen ourself too, but its not exactly fitted, just cheap MFI and B&Q value units. Oh and the floor is from a pound shop near Picciddily!
My uncle did replace the sink unit about ten years ago though, and I replaced the 1950's light fitting with a modern one.
I've seen Ted's kitchen, it is probably a far better job than he would have got if he had got B&Q to fit it.
When you get a kitchen, it might say free planning and project management, but it is not free, it is just included in the price.
It costs money to organise tradesmen. Although we rarely get tradesmen in, only for roof issues/windows and gas stuff. Anything else I do myself.
Of course there is a friendly kitchen dealer called Vance Miller who will happily supply you with a discounted kitchen :).
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 00:12
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>> Anything else I do myself.
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>>
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Do you use a Workmate?
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Alanović - we're currently nearing the end of our kitchen extension/refit, thank goodness (camping stove in the lounge, washing up on a pasting table on the patio, dust everywhere etc. etc.). Anyway Mrs F went for a Wickes kitchen mainly because they had the one she liked, but also we got a big discount off the RRP (>50% IIRC but I can check). Not by haggling, just what they were doing at the time.
If you're happy with Ikea then great, but if the Wickes price you got wasn't discounted then I wouldn't class it as a fair comparison. I think Wickes rrp prices are like Ford's - no one pays them (apart from my parents).
However like yourself I'm not doing any of the work, so it ain't cheap :)
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Thanks Focus, but I'm afraid the Wickes price was obtained int ehir January 50% sale. I still can't believe it.
The IKEA planner is at the house with the trouble and strife today.
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...The IKEA planner is at the house with the trouble and strife today...
No worries.
IKEA single-handedly turned furniture/household goods retailing upside down in this country.
They know what they are about.
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When our house was being built, we had three bathrooms and a kitchen to do and we had to furnish every room from scratch. Consequently, there's a lot of Ikea in our house including the kitchen. Dunno what we paid, but it was cheap. It's worn very well over the five years, we opted for quality butcher's block wooden worktops that gave a touch of class. I don't have any regrets, but I wouldn't go with their hobs again. I think it's Miele and it's crap - switches itself on and off, the buttons are too close to the pans and affect all the touch-sensitive controls.
We saved money in other ways too. We drove right to the factories with a van for the ceramic floor and wall tiles and did deals. We bought end of range, we bought seconds - couldn't tell unless you were a ceramic expert. We bargained and bartered everywhere we possibly could, nearly everyone was ready to do a deal. I bet they are these days.
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'Can I help you mate?' - Duncan
