Not police corruption. Theft of copper cables. My aunt and uncle have just been affected by thieves ripping cable out of their local substation. One of the consequences was sending big volts down the neutral and this has caused damage in hundreds of houses. Uncle's washing machine had a fried main board, and he has lost a DECT phone. Others have not been so lucky, with sockets being blown out of walls.
The substation owner is disclaiming any responsibility, on the basis that they take reasonable precautions to protect their premises (a couple of modest padlocks). Home insurers will pay out, but it's quite messy - uncle has been advised to get his consumer unit checked and he will probably be told he needs a new one.
What surprised me was that the houses were so vulnerable. Is this because only the "live" pole is protected/fused in the UK?
goo.gl/hkXBj
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...Uncle's washing machine had a fried main board, and he has lost a DECT phone. Others have not been so lucky, with sockets being blown out of walls...
That's a bit worrying.
Could have started a fire, particularly if something combustible had been left near the exploding appliance/socket.
It's easily done, my washing machine is in an alcove near the back door, and I often leave bits and pieces on top of it as I'm on my way out or in.
And many people have a pad of paper next to their phone.
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Neutral is usually within 3 volts of earth. As far as any appliance is concerned, the voltage between the live and the neutral is what matters.
So if for example, neutral had gone to 100 volts, and if live was still 240 volts, you'd get a 'brown' out and motors might die. Electronics should not care. If however, neutral had gone to 700, all sorts of stuff would be dead.
There is no need to fuse neutral, and in fact, a fused neutral can be very dangerous as the item that then stops working could still be live.
I've not researched it, but something is saying "look at the electricity supply regulations". I've got a feeling the supplier is liable, despite what they are saying.
The above explanation is both a simplification and an approximation as the full picture gets complicated and is of little further help.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Sun 26 Jun 11 at 10:29
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I take your point about fusing "neutral". You'd need a protective breaker that operated on both poles and cut both when it tripped? Not my area of knowledge though.
I might have a dig for the regulations, thanks.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 26 Jun 11 at 10:35
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Its possible that neutral could have gone to +415 volts and or out of phase with live.
How do these tealeaf monkeys not fry themselves alive?
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Find whose responsible and chuck them on the live wires. I wouldn't shed a tear, they wouldn't do it again would they, and no drain on the taxpayer to keep them in prison.
This isn't as serious, but still a problem. Fly tippers. It seems to happen in the same places time after time around here. Maybe what's needed is a temporary camera set up well hidden observing the area over a number of days/months - good enough resolution to make a face identification.
Subhuman scum. The copper theft disrupt peoples lives - the trouble is that they could strike anywhere at any time, so it's hard to clamp down on them. How do you guard hundreds of miles of railway line?
Last edited by: corax on Sun 26 Jun 11 at 14:56
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I had thought that "PME" (protective multiple earthing) had become the legislated norm in mains power distribution years ago - neutral bonded to a proper earth at (almost) every opportunity/change of voltage/change of premises.
Perhaps somebody with an up to date "part p" will put me right.
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How do these tealeaf monkeys not fry themselves alive?
Sometimes they do
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4780648.ece
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>> www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4780648.ece
Classic line:
"Thieves routinely rip long sections of copper cable from the side of railway lines or steal lead flashing from church roofs - ignoring health and safety warnings from police"
Who gives a stuff about their health and safety?
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There really does seem tot be a feeling of "the punishment does not fit the crime"
This is more than just the metal, it is the country's infrastructure and as such is almost akin to terrorism.
Penalties should should not only reflect the value of the material stolen but the work and cost of replacing the material and all consequential costs.
So if stripping a roof of lead equates to £1k but replacing the lead and re-roofing is £60k then that should be what they are charged with stealing!
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I agree Zippy. Whatever the copper was worth, there'll be perhaps £300,000 of costs for the 294 houses, even at £1000 per house - and I hear some are £5000+ claims.
If you robbed a bank of £300,000 there'd probably be a significant effort to solve the crime, and a decent jail sentence at the end of it. The substation damage has been classified as 'vandalism' at least by the electricity company. The police are reportedly not hopeful of an arrest.
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I think the owners of such assets should have sufficient security as well.
If they don't then surely it is like having a bank and leaving the doors unlocked!
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 26 Jun 11 at 20:01
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>> If they don't then surely it is like having a bank and leaving the doors
>> unlocked!
>>
Sliding pillar hinted at this. The supply regulations say
"Sufficiency of supplier’s works
17. All supplier’s works shall be sufficient for the purposes for, and the circumstances in, which they are used and so constructed, installed, protected (both electrically and mechanically), used, and maintained as to prevent danger or interruption of supply so far as is reasonably practicable."
I'd say it was reasonably practicable to have more than a couple of small padlocks, particularly as another local substation had already been done over. They aren't even taking sensible precautions to protect their own property.
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"Thieves routinely rip long sections of copper cable from the side of railway lines or steal lead flashing from church roofs - ignoring health and safety warnings from the police and quickly melting down their loot. "
Which probves my contention that the Criminal Justice Sytem is more focussed on eth rights and safty of the criminals than of the victims..
Police should encourage people to grease lead roofs..
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And electrify their gates!
And have half starved dobermans behind them!
:-)
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This thread brings to mind an old court joke.
Judge to barrister: "Has your client ever been to church?"
Barrister to judge: "Only to get the lead off the roof, your honour."
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>> This thread brings to mind an old court joke.
>>
>> Judge to barrister: "Has your client ever been to church?"
>>
>> Barrister to judge: "Only to get the lead off the roof, your honour."
Why was your client on the roof?
he wanted to get closer to god your honour, he removed the lead to get a better foothold.
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I've covered a few lead theft cases over the years, although not many recently.
Sadly, most churches have already been stripped and replaced with something else.
The last one I did was on a pub outhouse.
Theft of railway railings still goes on, some of the stuff they use is top quality, so well worth nicking for reuse as railings, rather than scrap.
I forget the cost, but I think it's several hundred quid a metre.
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Beats me why the fencing round the substation isn't electrified with a cut off in a secret location and only accessible by proper electricity workers. It's high time criminals felt consequences and frying a few stupid ones that try to steal from substations seems like a good start.
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A cood stamp down on the dealers who buy from these tw4ats would help.
Easier said than done. On a par with stealing the bronze plaques from war memorials and cemeteries.
I had a look round The Brookwood Necropolis some years ago. One grave has what is said to be the finest piece of funerary sculpture in Britain. The large plaque commemorating the lives of Sir Edward and Lady Matilda Pelham-Clinton had long gone. I think the statue would have needed a crane.
Scum...a good kicking by the beat man might help !.....Discreetly, of course.
Ted
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France's world-leading high speed trains are continually 'sidelined' these days because of thieves making off with cable. The TGV service is now developing a bad name for reliability although it's not their fault.
Surely the answer is to go one step back and jump on the scrappies who will take the stuff without asking questions?
Can't they be better regulated?
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When I were a lad, I used to go out around the streets of London on an orse n' cart 'totting',
I used to nick lead and copper, but only from old factories etc., I'd never have even dreamed of taking metal from some of the places I hear about these days,
Better class of tea leaf back in the 60's see!
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Copper thefts - Iffy
