I'm currently having a pump installed in my house to solve a low water pressure problem. the pump is a Stuart Turner Monsoon twin impeller, which I am planning to have attached to both cold and hot water, to all of my bathooms.
One thing which may be a fly in the ointment though - I can't isolate the toilet supplies.
Is it a good idea to have pumped cold water filling toilet cisterns, or will it likely wear out the inlet valves?
Any ideas, DIY squad?
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"...all of my bathooms."
That'll be more than two, then. Posh, or what?
:-)
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OK. Both bathrooms and the downstairs cloakroom.
Happy now?
;-)
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Pumped cold water into a cistern doesn't like a good idea to me.
You can get in-line pressure restrictor valves which could be set to choke the water back to mains pressure.
Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 21 Jun 11 at 13:51
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>> Is it a good idea to have pumped cold water filling toilet cisterns, or will it likely wear out the inlet valves?
I can't see a problem with it. You're only having the pump installed to bring the water pressure up to a sufficient level for normal use. The cistern valves (indeed the entire house plumbing system) will be designed, tested and proven to handle a lot more pressure than you'll be putting through them.
>> I can't isolate the toilet supplies
You should install service valves just before the toilets while the water's off for fitting the pump.
www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-straight-service-valve-15mm/19933
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 21 Jun 11 at 13:49
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Not perfect, but Alanovic could carefully set the Pegler valve to partially closed to restrict the flow.
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>> Not perfect, but Alanovic could carefully set the Pegler valve to partially closed to restrict the flow.
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From my recent experience with service valves.
I would not buy cheap valves from the sheds. One of mine failed when I tried to close it. The screw slot part sheared from the valve.
If a high flow rate is important then cheap 15mm versions have about 10mm flow so whatever you buy have a look at the true bore.
A quality chrome version with a full 15mm bore from an old fashioned plumbers shop was half the price the sheds charged.
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>> You should install service valves just before the toilets while the water's off for fitting
>> the pump.
>> www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-straight-service-valve-15mm/19933
>>
This would involve the removal of the recently fitted toilets, and in once ase the cistern is built in behind a stud wall. We are trying to solve a problem which was unforseen at the time of installation, and it would be quite a major upheaval to remove the toilets now. They're the fancy flush fitting ones my missus insisted upon and access to the piping is no longer possible without removal. :-(
But I'll run it past the plumber and see what he says. Cheers.
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>> You should install service valves just before the toilets while the water's off for fitting
>> the pump.
Just spoken to the plumber. There are already service valves on the inlets, but he's concerned that adjusting them to regulate the pressure might cause problems back up to the pump. But he will speak to the pump manufacturer to check.
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...here are already service valves on the inlets, but he's concerned that adjusting them to regulate the pressure might cause problems back up to the pump...
The moral there is listen to people like the plumber and DaveTDCi who know what they are talking about, rather than, er, those of us who take educated guesses.
But I thought it was quite a good guess, as guesses go. :)
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>>The moral there is listen to people like the plumber
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Yeh! Yeh!
The last time I called a plumber in to my home, several years ago, it was " £2K for boiler and cylinder blah blah blah"
I fixed the problem for less tyhan 50p and it is still going strong.
I have recently spent time stripping out relatively new pumbing, re organising it and generally improving things. The original work was done by a "plumber"
I have still more work to do to finish sorting things out.
I had words with Thames Water re a newly fitted water meter fitted. I told them to send a different guy to strip it out and do a decent job.
The guy who was sent did IMO a perfect job. I was really pleased and called his boss to express my thanks.
So I like to study the requirement, DIY if possible, else ensure the plumber is up to date and does what is required.
I will listen to them but they had better not be talking BS just to make money or do a "quick" job. I am more than happy to pay the right price for a good job.
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Henry K.
Spot on. I got a plumber in (who came highly recommended) to quote for a new bathroom in the understairs. £15k he wanted (which was cheaper than the previous quote). Took me a week of long days and £1k for bits and plastering. Didn't half look smart, too.
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Plumbing has just jumped to the top of my DIY list.
The connection to the cistern in my toilet, undetected by me, started to drip after behaving itself for years.
The outcome is the base of the toilet pan , is not leaking but has two significant cracks in it.
Howcome ?? As far as I can work it out with the floorboards being wet, the one under the pan has bowed upwards and caused the base to split.
So new pan but I cannot risk fitting it until the boards are dry plus very careful checking that it will mate with the cast iron soil pipe that was installed too low.
The existing one only just fitted with an offset thus avoiding reducing the floor height.
Of course the supply pipe has to be on the other side but at least no overflow required.
SWBO wont risk squating on the cracked base so the pressure is on guess who :-(((
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>>
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>> Is it a good idea to have pumped cold water filling toilet cisterns, or will
>> it likely wear out the inlet valves?
>>
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There are two nozzle sizes for modern toilet cisterns, for high or low water presure. Yours is presumably on low at present - just swap the plastic insert for the high version.
We have an old cast iron overhead system in the outdoor servants mens loo, and it seems to cope with any pressure. :)
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Outdoor servants mens loo?You are posh cliff.My (opoe)Grandma used to have a outside toilet and newspaper for the botty.Collection was once a week by horse and cart.(memories)
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>>Grandma used to have a outside toilet and newspaper
Ee, tha were posh. Did it have a door on it too?
When I were a lad, we took a shovel to the woods and hoped the dandelions had decent sized leaves.
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...used to have a outside toilet...
When a pal of mine moved to the North East about 20 years ago his first house had an outside toilet, called locally a 'netty'.
His netty was posh - it had a roof.
Still fiercely cold in the winter, but the main problem was the water in the bowl freezing.
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Joke, following up OP's careless reference to "all my bathrooms".
I have fitted a Stuart Turner booster pump to supply a bathroom at the far end of a system which was suffering from low pressure. In my case it was a gravity feed from the supply tank (from a well) so the loo was taking ages to refill and the shower was barely useable.
The booster pump does what it says, and restores the pressure to a more normal level.
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Thanks again, Cliff. That's what I'm hoping for.
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>> There are two nozzle sizes for modern toilet cisterns, for high or low water presure.
>> Yours is presumably on low at present - just swap the plastic insert for the
>> high version.
Thanks Cliff, have suggested this to the plumber and he'll look in to that.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 21 Jun 11 at 15:21
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I have all my WC's plumbed, as from new, in to the main cold water supply. I also have a mains pressure which has exceeded 6 bar (complained to the Water Co. following inability to keep garden hoses on the tap and they checked it). I have fitted a pressure reducing valve which brings the 6 bar down to exactly 3 bar for the whole house. So, regarding having high pressure at your WC's, the answer is yes you can have (reasonably) high pressure and inlet valves, when you buy one, have a choice of reducers to allow for high or low pressure. I also fitted individual BS (Always BS.....British Standard) 'ballofix' valves (the ones you're familiar with with the screwdriver slot) to each WC as well as every other tap and fitting in the house for isolation purposes. I've also recently changed the syphon washers in the WC's as they do deteriorate and 'let-by' ie. dribble water in to the bowl after the flush has finished. (Enough dribbling going on as you get older without having your loo dribbling too!)
Stuart Turner Monsoon is, as you probably know, a well respected, albeit not cheap, item. I have, in the past, had to fit one way valves on the supply *after* the pump to prevent the pump annoyingly, momentarily, operating on and off....sort of oscillating, if that's the word.
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... I have fitted a pressure reducing valve which brings the 6 bar down to exactly 3 bar for the whole house...
Any recommendations or links, kb?
The pressure at the caravan is variable, and the manufacturers recommend a pressure reducing valve.
Might be a good idea, given the lightweight nature of the plumbing in the 'van.
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Will do but have to go out right now and will post later.
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The one I used was as follows.....
cgi.ebay.co.uk/Caleffi-533841-15mm-Pressure-Reducing-Valve-/380344889000?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Bathroom_Shower_Units_PP&hash=item588e526ea8
A Caleffi 533841 (with 15mm compression fittings.) Other fitting sizes available. As always, a quick Google helps out and they're often on Ebay, as seen above.
They seem to vary between £25 for the one above, on Ebay, to about £50 from most retail outlets. Hasn't caused me any trouble in 6 years and was recommended at the time. I like to think it has reduced the stress and strain of having over 6 bar up my pipes. Three bar is much more manageable and my hose pipe doesn't keep popping off and soaking my trousers.
Just nipping a stop valve down may reduce flow but it doesn't reduce pressure to the appliance/tap/whatever it's feeding. By turning a valve down a bit, the pressure is, naturally enough, able to creep round the, admittedly restricted but not pressure reduced, part of the valve/stop-tap/whatever and gets back to it's original pressure. True, turning the valve completely off does tend to reduce flow AND pressure.... :-). Bit like a balloon....get hold of it in the middle and squeeze and it'll have a restriction between the two compartments, but there'll still be the same pressure in each of them.
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I'm not sure a double ender is the right thing to do here.... Both ends run together, so if you're only running cold or hot then the other will be dead headed, which is not good for a centrif pump - also this will unbalance the load on the shaft and may not promote long pump life! If you're running a gravity HW system, then separate pumps may be called for - if you've got direct HW eg combi or mains pressure tank, then a single end pump on the incoming main will do. I wonder too if the suction pressure might be a problem - if you pull more down the pipe then suction P will drop - is there a chance this will go below the min suction pressure the pump requires (NPSH - but this is probably about 6 or 7m negative head of water, so maybe you will be OK). Do you live on the top of a hill? I'd be asking the water co if they can improve the pressure - IIRC they're supposed to deliver 1.5bar at the property, or is there some other restriction (like a rusted out steel supply pipe)?
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...The one I used was as follows...
Thanks, kb.
I now know what to look out for, and to set it to three bar or under.
Last edited by: Iffy on Wed 22 Jun 11 at 11:00
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OK. Thanks for acknowledgement.
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Plumbing a cold water pump - FocalPoint
