| Non-motoring > Domesday "reloaded" - at last | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Crankcase | Replies: 69 |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 21:04
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Crankcase
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It's taken twenty five years for the 1986 Acorn Domesday project to finally be released - the BBC have created a website with all the material on at long last. You can find it at www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday Astonishing how much has changed in what feels like a very short time. Here is the view of policing in an area familiar to me at the time; I'll wager it's rather different now. When interviewed, our 'friendly policeman' said that the main crimes in Brickhill were burglaries and some vandalism. He thought the Homewatch Scheme, which functions in street groups, is very good because people help each other by reporting any unusual happening. Members of the groups display a sticker in their front windows with an eye on it. The community policeman usually rides around the area on a bicycle so that he can get to know the people living in it. He rarely travels by Panda car. Much of his time is spent in visiting schools and playgroups to talk about safety and in running cycling proficiency courses for the older children. He also talks to adult associations on various subjects. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 21:08
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - R.P.
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| Aye.....the only "kettling" then would have been in relation to a brew (a tea flavoured drink) |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 21:50
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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I heard a documentary on R4 about it. Apparently it was on a video disk that was set to be the next big thing, but which went down the pan in part due to cost. >> Aye.....the only "kettling" then would have been in relation to a brew (a tea flavoured >> drink) Went into a pub a few days ago where they served tea, and asked for tea. I asked what kind of tea they had. Barmaid said "tea" in a tone that said "you are a simpleton, don't ask dumb questions". |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 21:54
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dog
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>>I asked what kind of tea they had. Barmaid said "tea" in a tone that said "you are a simpleton, don't ask dumb questions".<< A blonde most likely ~ from Essex :-D |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:21
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Crankcase
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>> Barmaid said "tea" in a tone >> that said "you are a simpleton, don't ask dumb questions". Exactly the opposite experience on holiday in the Cotswolds recently. Wanted a mid morning cuppa, went into a "tea room" to be confronted by a menu with a million specialty teas on. Japanese waiter asked what we wanted, we said "just tea". He looked very harassed, on the edge of explosion, mingled with disappointment, and said "we do specialty teas, please, you must choose one". Whilst we were deciding, another couple came in. They asked for tea. I could hear his teeth grinding from the the other side of the room. Reckon that's not a good business model for the Cotswolds. Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 22:22
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:27
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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>> went into a "tea room" to be confronted by a menu with a million specialty >> teas on. Japanese waiter asked what we wanted, we said "just tea". The correct answer was "English Breakfast Tea" if you want a PG tips kind of blended tea. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:37
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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>> >> Barmaid said "tea" in a tone >> >> that said "you are a simpleton, don't ask dumb questions". >> >> >> Exactly the opposite experience on holiday in the Cotswolds recently. Wanted a mid morning cuppa, I can understand his exasperation. English tea is a commercialised form of Chinese tea. The British established tea plantations in India and Ceylon (sic) using a variety of tea plant which favoured productivity over taste. It is produced in a powder form using low grade tea. Chinese tea comes in goodness knows how many varieties, main forms being green, red, black, white, oolong and yellow, the differences being how the leaf is oxidised. You buy dried leaves or buds, not powder. Usually you can re-wet the leaves to get two goes, and sometimes you can re-wet them 4 or 5 times. The range of flavours is startling, from lemony to smoky and caramel, asparagus like and so on. And the price is high. £10 for 100g gets you a decent tea. If bought from China. Most Chinese tea sold in the UK is in my very biased opinion, complete crud, though standard Jasmine tea is drinkable. I've been given tea by Chinese colleagues which knocks spots off our crud. And Japanese tea is excellent, Sencha is the standard one, very very tasty, and hard to get good stuff here. I sometimes buy tea from Japan and China, you can buy it here from Jing Tea and others but you pay silly prices. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:40
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - R.P.
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| I toyed with Redbush tea just before the moving house storm broke, really tasty in an old fashioned tea chest sort of way. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:15
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Roger.
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| "Yorkshire Tea" gets our vote! |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 21:09
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - MD
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| I have just been watching Countryfile and it was mentioned there. I will view it soon hopefully. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:08
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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| I remember the Domesday on the BBC Micro with the laserdisc in the 80s. I suppose it was impressive at the time - but slow. It could be done a lot better over broadband. I have not looked at the website yet. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:14
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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I saw it in action, on a BBC micro, with Laserdisk, last week at the National Museum of Computing. The BBC micro was merely the index, all the data was held, and displayed from, the laser disk. It was, suprisingly (for its day) quite fast. And, for its day, Excelent quality. Certainly useable. They are loosing all the data from the laserdisks tho, due to a manufacturing fault they delaminate slightly and the reflective surface gets tarnished. Last for ever they said. Good job the guys there rescued it for the BBC to use, Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 22:15
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:57
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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>> The BBC micro was merely the index, all the data was held, and displayed from, the laser disk. It used the Tube on the BBC Micro. So the video etc was streamed off laserdisk. The BBC micro was quite clever in my opinion for the time. And the team went on to not just design the RISC follow on but for all us Android and iPhone users... the ARM processor. Clever chap that Steve Furber for one (and I knew him at Manchester Uni and he's also a very nice guy). Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 22:57
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:30
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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rtj70 said: >> I remember the Domesday on the BBC Micro with the laserdisc in the 80s. I >> suppose it was impressive at the time - but slow. It could be done a >> lot better over broadband. I have not looked at the website yet. To be honest it now looks a bit pathetic. They spent a lot of money and achieved little. The information and photos are all rather lame compared to the sort of information sites such as google maps and Wikipedia provide. These days collaborative works with online communications are so superior as ways to create content. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:30
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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And we knew that then? What about all the stuff thats been lost because we didnt bother? Of course they achieved something. As all the contributers will tell you. Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 22:31
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:42
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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Zero said: >> And we knew that then? >> >> What about all the stuff thats been lost because we didnt bother? >> >> Of course they achieved something. As all the contributers will tell you. It's what happens when organisations are flush with cash and do grandiose things. They surely should have realised that video disk would have become redundant, or at least was high risk. I am not sure they achieved something, or at least not much, though the contributors may well have enjoyed themselves, and thought it worthwhile. There are history web sites now, and many collect old photographs. I am sure they are far superior to the BBC data. They should surely have known a) that not much information could be included and b) it would become obsolete in a short time scale. It's all rather sad. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:43
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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| Its not at all sad. Frankly Leif you are talking out of your posterior. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:55
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - R.P.
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In fairness the internet was embryonic, no-one (apart from Arthur C Clarke) realized it was going to develop into what we know and love now..... The last time I saw a video disc was a drunken work outing to a Chinese Restaurant where they had one in a Karaoke machine... |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 23:05
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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>> internet.... embryonic The Internet (capital I) is just a network. That's all it is. It evolved from Arpanet. The idea being it's an interconnected network of networks. e.g. my home network is hung off BT which then connects to... etc. It's the applications that run on it that not many would have envisaged in the 80s - or the bandwidth available. The Internet did although mostly for academics. I was using BBC Micros with dialup modems onto bulletin boards in the mid eighties... and ran up some huge phone bills. So we have web sites because of that Berners-Lee chap (WWW inventor) which is just a protocol and application that uses the Internet for transport. We sadly also have Facebook. I saw some amazing demos of what was possible with high speed networks at the MEDINFO'89 conference in Vancouver which showed what was possible in the field of medicine, e.g. viewing CAT scans remotely. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:56
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - swiss tony
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>> Its not at all sad. Frankly Leif you are talking out of your posterior. >> My goodness... I'm agreeing with Z! Leif, you must remember that you are looking back at the project with the luxury of hindsight. At the time, the Domesday project would have been pretty cutting edge stuff. There was no WWW (as we know it), CD's, DVD's or large disk's. Maybe they could have done better - but at least they did something to try and take a snapshot of the time. Last edited by: swiss tony on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 22:57
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 23:04
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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What lief does not take into account, was they were saving history to go on his new web sites. The history web sites contain what people have saved in what ever format that had at the time. And thats what these kids did, Saved a snaphot of history for the future. They used what ever technology was availble. It was an enabler. You cant knock it. Its like saying fox talbot should never have invented the camera, and people should never have taken photos or kept the negatives. As it is much film is now lost to us. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 23:06
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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>> As it is much film is now lost to us. To save cost, the BBC used to overwrite video and so we have lost some old classic programmes too. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 13:10
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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Zero said: >> What lief does not take into account, was they were saving history to go on >> his new web sites. The history web sites contain what people have saved in what >> ever format that had at the time. >> >> And thats what these kids did, Saved a snaphot of history for the future. They >> used what ever technology was availble. It was an enabler. You cant knock it. >> >> Its like saying fox talbot should never have invented the camera, and people should never >> have taken photos or kept the negatives. >> >> As it is much film is now lost to us. Firstly the name is Leif, no doubt your typo was intentional. Secondly what the BBC did bears no relation to Fox Talbot's contribution to photography. What he and others did was innovative, and led to modern photography. Fox Talbot solved a tough technical problem, showing the way for others. What the BBC did was merely an interesting project, and not in the least bit innovative. The BBC did not solve any difficult technical problems, they just applied existing technology. And having looked at the content, my view is that it is of low value, and I am sure there are far more valuable sources elsewhere that existed at the time. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 12:32
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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Zero said: >> Its not at all sad. Frankly Leif you are talking out of your posterior. That is offensive. I am entitled to express an opinion, even one you disagree with, without being subjected to personal abuse or insults from you or anyone else. If you cannot deal with someone expressing a contrary opinion, then you have a problem, and I suggest you get some form of counselling. I think it sad that so much effort, time and money went into something which in effect failed. The video machines were too expensive, and they became obsolete. Perhaps Auntie Beed overextended herself after the success of the BBC micro, which I used when I was at school. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 12:34
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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And I am entitled to tell you when you are talking out of your posterior. And you are. It did not fail. Last edited by: Zero on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 12:34
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 12:45
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Iffy
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...And I am entitled to... I feel another online example of a Harry Enfield 'Back Down' sketch coming on.... |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 12:59
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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No it will die there, I don't want to have to say he was talking out of his posterior three times, so I wont repeat it - he just knows that on this subject I think he is talking out of his posterior. On another note, is that an offensive thing to say? Would anyone else be offended? |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 13:03
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Iffy
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...On another note, is that an offensive thing to say?... Wouldn't be my choice. "I disagree", or "I think that's rubbish", would be less likely to offend. Even simpler, don't say anything personal at all, just post your contrary point of view. Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 13:04
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 13:12
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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Iffy said: >> ...On another note, is that an offensive thing to say?... >> >> Wouldn't be my choice. >> >> "I disagree", or "I think that's rubbish", would be less likely to offend. >> >> Even simpler, don't say anything personal at all, just post your contrary point of view. Spot on. It is fine to say "I disagree" or "I think you are wrong because [insert explanation here]". But what Zero said was merely abusive. He disagreed with me earlier and I see nowt wrong with that. In fact it allows discussion. But personal abuse is the refuge of the person who has lost the argument, and has decided to have a little tantrum instead. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 13:32
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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>> earlier and I see nowt wrong with that. In fact it allows discussion. But personal >> abuse is the refuge of the person who has lost the argument, and has decided >> to have a little tantrum instead. Leif Anyone who thinks they are "abused" by being told they are speaking out of their posterior, or thinks its a personal attack must be a little emotionally insecure. And possibly a little paranoid, as indicated by the fact you think typo's are intended affronts! I could think of no other valid description of the statements of yours that showed such ignorance of the facts of the story. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 13:50
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Iffy
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...Anyone who thinks they are "abused" by being told they are speaking out of their posterior... Semantic argument and pointless in this case. The term 'abuse' covers everything from a mild rebuke to stuff which would get me an instant ban from the forum. I would class the posterior remark as the mildest of mild abuse, but it remains abuse. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 15:21
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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>> Leif >> >> Anyone who thinks they are "abused" by being told they are speaking out of their >> posterior, or thinks its a personal attack must be a little emotionally insecure. And possibly >> a little paranoid, as indicated by the fact you think typo's are intended affronts! >> >> I could think of no other valid description of the statements of yours that showed >> such ignorance of the facts of the story. Firstly it is quite common for someone to belittle another poster by mangling their name, and you cannot pretend otherwise. As for paranoia, objecting to abuse is not paranoia. Secondly your statement was no more than abuse with no explanation as to why you disagreed with me. That is how children behave when they have lost an argument i.e. they have a tantrum. Perhaps if you can respond with a rational argument, and avoid empty rhetoric (as in the last sentence quoted above) and insults, then I might be able to respond, or at least understand where you are coming from. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 17:01
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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Very well Leif for your education I will explain. This all in strict chronological order. >To be honest it now looks a bit pathetic. It was a learning exercise. the pupils involved learned about video sources, indexes, computers, reporting, social history, team work. This you call pathetic? You call those involved pathetic? remember they were children of contributors on here. By your measure I think that may count as an insult, don’t you agree? >They spent a lot of money and achieved little. The information and photos are all rather lame compared to the sort of information sites such as google maps and Wikipedia provide. They achieved the lessons indicated above. Lame? Google maps and Wikipedia, Google earth was not even considered practically feasible then, nor was the time-scale predictable, it was after all 25 years ago. >>These days collaborative works with online communications are so superior as ways to create content. Off course it is, but 25 years ago it didn’t exist. Basic corporate email was only 3 years old, text only and at huge expense. You think it was possible to upload content then? Digital cameras? The JPEG standard for digital compression was even invented nor was the hardware readily available to compress it. >>It's what happens when organisations are flush with cash and do grandiose things. Do you know how much it cost? How about the value of the education it gave to the children involved, or is that grandiose. It was entertaining and educational for all those involved, and surely that is the remit and charter of the the BBC is it not? >> They surely should have realised that video disk would have become redundant, or at least was high risk It was considered a low risk and long term storage medium at the time. Moreover it was the ONLY medium at the time that could store large quantities of images, be accessed by a micro computer and therefore be interactive and be cost effective. Now in my mind, and don't forget this was 25 years ago, that makes it a sensible choice. > I am not sure they achieved something, or at least not much, though the contributors may well have enjoyed themselves, and thought it worthwhile. I think we covered this further up in this reply, tho I seem to think you called it pathetic. > There are history web sites now, and many collect old photographs. I am sure they are far ?>superior to the BBC data. They should surely have known a) that not much information could >be included and b) it would become obsolete in a short time scale. It's all rather sad. Yes there are history web sites. And yes they are far superior to the BBC. Now. They were not there then, nor considered possible in the lifetime of those involved. On this point where do you think the content comes from to go on history web sites? From people who note things, save things, put them in context, catalogue them, and then save them for others to see in the future. Wait - sorry you said this was "sad" and "pathetic" Without things like the doomsday project your history web sites would have no content,. Not much data could be included? At the time it was a considerable amount of data to store in one easily interactive retrievable source. Obsolete in a short time-scale?, well it lasted long enough to be put up into the next level of technology. Do you know how long this level of technology will be like this? or what it will be in 25 years? No you don't. Neither did they. At this point I told you you were talking out of your posterior. I was right but maybe I should not have phrased it like that. But by then you had been calling peoples work "sad and pathetic" >>Secondly what the BBC did bears no relation to Fox Talbot's contribution to photography. What he and others did was innovative, and led to modern photography. Fox Talbot solved a tough technical problem, showing the way for others. What the BBC did was merely an interesting project, and not in the least bit innovative. The BBC did not solve any difficult technical problems, they just applied existing technology. You are completely wrong here. Its a direct comparison to the work of fox Talbot and others. Its nothing to do with innovation, its to do with using the available media at the time to store, and distribute things. Photography, after all, is capturing a visual snap shot in time and putting it on a medium for others to see. As it happens most of fox Talbot film did not survive but according to you that’s his fault because he should have realised it would be redundant and high risk. >And having looked at the content, my view is that it is of low value, and I am sure there are far more valuable sources elsewhere that existed at the time. I have looked at the content. It has great local and social interest., Personal to many. I am sure many here have done the same and agree. But I allow that opinions may vary on this. I am not sure what other valuable sources you are talking about that were not already captured by other means. All the above is factual. Now some personal interpretation. Your comments poo poo work done by our children, belittled their efforts and those who went out of their way to help them, and casually dismissed, without thought, the work done. Many of those involved probably went on to work building modern web sites that you praise today. The ideas of web pages and object linking spread from projects just like those you denigrate. The link is real, tenable, both in technology, content and social website directions. You can either see all this or you cant. It may be my failure to explain it, tho I would have though explanation was not required. Now one final word, when you rubbish and denigrate other peoples work you must expect a robust response. On the face of it - sad and pathetic probably justifies a mild returning insult. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 22:41
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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>> Very well Leif for your education I will explain. This all in strict chronological order. >> >> I will reiterate again that I find it offensive to be told that I speak out of my backside. That is offensive, childish and downright rude. And several people here have stated that they agree that it is offensive. I won't reply point by point mainly because most of what you say is a statement of the obvious, mixed in with some untruths. You have misinterpreted what I wrote. I did not say that what the children and others did was pathetic. As I said, they might have gained from it, though whether or not that was worth the financial outlay is debatable. I said that "To be honest it now looks a bit pathetic. " And I stand by that. It is a quite reasonable statement. The original Apple computer now looks rather pathetic. I have no doubt that the people involved in creating the data on the disks enjoyed themselves. For them it might have been worthwhile. But looking at the result, it was for the most part a failure. At the time the disks were very expensive, so much so that very few people could afford them, never mind schools. Choosing a particular technology that is not mainstream is inherently high risk unless there is a very good reason to believe that it will become mainstream. I have worked in several companies that bet the house on a particular technology becoming mainstream, and when it did not, they lost money or went bust. I suspect that the people who chose to use video disks had a rather naive view of technology, and that they believed what they were told by the manufacturers, or so-called experts. And when I referred to other sources of information, I was thinking of museums, news organisations, photo archives and other institutions that collect information. And of course not forgetting local history societies. They did exist, and they would have collected far more information than the BBC project. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 22:57
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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Technological Alternatives Lief? All you can do is criticise the technological choices. Given the requirement, at the time what were the alternatives? I know I was in the game then, Do you? you haven't provide an alternative so I assume you don't know. Yet you choose to be an "expert" on it. The fact the data has survived to be migrated to the next level of technology means it was a good choice. As for content, its provided a lively discussion here, and in other areas of the media so clearly its of interest to people and hence far from a failure. As Crankcase so eloquently summarised below, the minutiae and social context gathered, is of relevance to future generations. All of this is far from a failure. So far you have merely reinforced the lucidity of my pithy remark. It was well earned, congratulations. Last edited by: Zero on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 22:58
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:20
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Leif
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>> Technological Alternatives Lief? >> All you can do is criticise the technological choices. Given the requirement, at the time >> what were the alternatives? I know I was in the game then, Do you? you >> haven't provide an alternative so I assume you don't know. Yet you choose to be >> an "expert" on it. The fact the data has survived to be migrated to the >> next level of technology means it was a good choice. >> >> As for content, its provided a lively discussion here, and in other areas of the >> media so clearly its of interest to people and hence far from a failure. As >> Crankcase so eloquently summarised below, the minutiae and social context gathered, is of relevance to >> future generations. >> >> All of this is far from a failure. >> >> >> So far you have merely reinforced the lucidity of my pithy remark. It was well >> earned, congratulations. Is it really too much to ask that you spell my name correctly? I think you have a problem. And I have a problem with the level of aggression in your posts. "The fact the data has survived to be migrated to the next level of technology means it was a good choice." Actually almost no-one can read video disks, in part because they degraded far more rapidly than originally thought, and in part because almost no-one has equipment that can read them. According to the R4 programme I listened too, migrating the data was a challenge, so much for it being a 'good choice'. It wasn't. In fact they did not take the data from disks, but from master tapes, possibly because they could not read the disks, though I do not know for sure. In other words, the disks were an almost total, if not complete, failure at least in terms of longevity. I made no claim to be an expert. You made that claim in order to mock me, as part of an aggressive attack. I have worked with software and storage mediums in academia and industry for over 30 years, so I might have a modicum of perspective and knowledge. To be honest I have had enough of this forum, and your insults and nonsense, and I am leaving. Enjoy your ego trip. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:37
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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>> According to the R4 programme I listened too, migrating the data was a challenge, so >> much for it being a 'good choice'. It wasn't. In fact they did not take >> the data from disks, but from master tapes, possibly because they could not read the >> disks, though I do not know for sure. In other words, the disks were an >> almost total, if not complete, failure at least in terms of longevity. As it happens Leif, I was talking to the team, in person, that did it. Only last week. And I used a BBC with this data on one of the actual laser disks. It was working. And if you check, further up I was the first to indicate the longevity problems of this media, I have worked with software and storage >> mediums in academia and industry for over 30 years, so I might have a modicum >> of perspective and knowledge. Then you should have known better. It didnt show. >> To be honest I have had enough of this forum, and your insults and nonsense, >> and I am leaving. Enjoy your ego trip. Now who is being childish and petulant. This is all stems from a your over inflated outrage over a fairly innocuous remark. Oh and as for the misspelt name, you will see from most of my posts I have a form of keyboard dyslexia that appears in all of that which I write. Sorry if a typo caused you offence. Still you are not here so you wont read this. But then I suppose you will be able to see it, in the future, because someone chose to capture it. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:44
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> And I used a BBC with this data on one of the actual laser disks. It was working. As have several journalists on the news this week. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 23:45
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 06:27
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - swiss tony
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>> To be honest I have had enough of this forum, and your insults and nonsense, >> and I am leaving. Enjoy your ego trip. >> Insults? hardly - depends how thin skinned one is nonsense? not much Z said that wasn't fairly accurate leaving? why? ego trip? seems to me there was 2 people playing the ego trip, and one couldn't handle it |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 22:57
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> I suspect that the people who chose to use video disks had a rather naive view of technology, and >> that they believed what they were told by the manufacturers, or so-called experts. From a 1980s point of view, the advantages of CD over audio tape were clear - reproduction quality and lack of degradation over time. The videodisc seemed to offer the same advantages over video tape - DVDs weren't invented and patented for another 7 years and there was no other realistic mass data storage medium available: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 22:59
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:02
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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>> >> I suspect that the people who chose to use video disks had a rather >> naive view of technology, and >> >> that they believed what they were told by the manufacturers, or so-called experts. >> >> From a 1980s point of view, the advantages of CD over audio tape were clear >> - reproduction quality and lack of degradation over time. The videodisc seemed to offer the >> same advantages over video tape - DVDs weren't invented and patented for another 7 years >> and there was no other realistic mass data storage medium available: >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD >> Yeah, video tape had no index or table of content, very slow access time for a particular block of data. Difficult to handle, and load, and easily broken. At the time, video disk was the only valid choice, and it did the job admirably., |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:09
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> At the time, video disk was the only valid choice, and it did the job admirably., Also, remember that at the time computers in schools were nowhere near as widespread. In my junior school (250 pupils) in Spring 1984 we had one (1) BBC Micro. Its main use was for playing "Gunsmoke", although I had a ZX Spectrum at home and could program the BBC in BASIC, much to the teachers' dismay. At secondary school (700 pupils) there was also a single BBC Micro, and the Maths dept. had two RML 380Zs en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Machines_380Z The head of Maths was selected to be in charge of the computers because, well, someone had to be. By 1987 we had a Computer Room with a couple of dozen RM Nimbus PCs, running MS-DOS and later Windows 3.1 with no security to speak of. They were effectively all slave machines hooked up to the teacher's terminal with the Hard Drive. Most of the pupils knew their way around it better than the teacher did. Compare this to my college course last year, where there were 10 clusters of 40+ PCs, and half a dozen PCs in each technical workshop as well. All online, and with a couple of hundred spare machines and a full IT department to provide backup. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 23:13
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:57
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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Looks like the school I was at was pretty priviledged then. Up until about 1987 it was mostly BBC Micros and some 380Zs. There was at least two computer rooms with BBC Micros in with at least 20 per room Individual departments had their own too. Around 1987 the school and others in the county got a load of IBM PS/2s and an IBM AS/400. All linked up across the school buildings and across the county too. But I was more impressed by the Sun workstations and supercomputers that Manchester had when I went there in 1989. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:08
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> Looks like the school I was at was pretty priviledged then >> Around 1987 the school and others in the county got a load of IBM PS/2s That would have been after I left school - I never saw more than one BBC Micro on one site. There was one room full of Nimbii when I was there, and only two rooms full when I revisited the school site for a guided tour just before it closed in 2003. I recall trying an early version of Windows and thinking it was just a load of bloated code, over-simplifying operations for numpties - surely everyone could type a command into DOS? Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 00:10
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:12
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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| Maybe, but it got you into the mindset to accept a graphical rich and interactive environment, which is what you are using now. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:17
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> BBC Micros One of my peers at school had an Acorn Electron (same architecture as a BBC but cost £400) but most of us had Spectrums or Vic20s at £180 each. Great for understanding the basic principles of computing, I still think my children should try something similar. Rather like comparing all our first cars to the current EOBD II-equipped electronic-injection DPF DMF vehicles of today, it's comforting to know how it's all done behind the scenes. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:19
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> Maybe, but it got you into the mindset I still lament the bloated way of programming, now that storage space is so cheap. There was something in the streamlined, efficient coding which was necessitated by only having 48k to play with. JetSet Willy, 60 rooms and 300+ sprites, all inside 36k of code. Couldn't be done today. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:28
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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Dave me old fruit. You should have been in the mind set when if it didn't fit on an 80 column punch card it was bloated. Yeah ok its wasteful, but it encourages more radical and alternative thinking in software direction and interfaces. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:38
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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True. It still blows me away that I can download more data to my phone in half a second, up a mountain, than my Spectrum could load from tape in 5 minutes. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 00:39
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 13:05
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Focusless
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>> On another note, is that an offensive thing to say? Would anyone else be offended? I think it would be less likely to offend if you said 'I think you're talking ...' rather than 'You are talking ...' ie. expressed it as a matter of opinion rather than fact. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 20:28
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - mikeyb
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>> >> On another note, is that an offensive thing to say? Would anyone else be offended? >> I think I would be offended if it was directed at me............but as it wan't it was quite funny |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 22:11
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - teabelly
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Had to do something for this at school. Think you could only have 3 images per block due to space restrictions. Only a handful of submitted work ended up online. A friend's piece ended up on there. Remember it being on tomorrow's world. |
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 23:03
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - CGNorwich
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The original Domesday has survived a bit longer and is available on line too. The suburb where I live, a village then of course, had 37 goats in 1068. Pretty impressive eh www.domesdaybook.co.uk/index.html Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 23:04
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 20:36
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - mikeyb
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I contributed while at primary school. We had fun doing it, and I think its a valuable snapshot plus my bit was published along with a picture of my school! www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-368000-183000/picture/2 |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 20:49
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Crankcase
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>> plus my bit was published along with a picture of my school! What, this bit? By this time it is about 8.30am.Then I get my bike out of our shed,put my bag in my basket,and go up to Charlotte's. Then I wait for Charlotte for about five minutes. Then we do her rabbit, get her bike out and come to school. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 21:09
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - mikeyb
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>> What, this bit? >> Charlotte was my pre op name |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 21:17
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Iffy
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...By this time it is about 8.30am.Then I get my bike out of our shed,put my bag in my basket,and go up to Charlotte's. Then I wait for Charlotte for about five minutes. Then we do her rabbit, get her bike out and come to school... What on earth is the point of preserving this? It's of very modest interest to mikey and his/her family, and absolutely no interest to anyone else at the time, yet alone years later. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 21:28
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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Is that the case tho? It demonstrates a kids routine, a lifestyle. I wonder what that would read now? For example, my local school starts at 8:30 now. How many kids cycle to school? My local school does not even have bike sheds any more. Bags? rucksacks are the name of the game now. Rabbit? how many kids have pets they clean out before school now? |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 21:43
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Dave_
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>> Basic corporate email was only 3 years old, text only and at huge expense Our town had four secondary schools and a college, all linked in 1988(ish) by a primitive email and instant messaging system named after the town's founder. The only reference to it I can find online now is a facebook group: www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2350694922 It was certainly very much ahead of its time and we were made acutely aware of how privileged we were to be living in an area chosen to be part of the trial. The terminals (one per school) were hugely expensive with a tiny orange-on-black monochrome screen. When the Domesday project was undertaken I was in the equivalent of Year 9 - sadly our school's gathered information was not used due to lack of space, a common reason. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 6 Jun 11 at 21:48
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 22:33
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Crankcase
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Z has it right - information like that seems incredibly trivial when you are this close to it, but gains in interest as time passes. Indeed, I've been talking today to a professor who has written an entire book about the evolution and study of the French "tu" into "thou" across three hundred years; something that wouldn't have crossed the minds of the original authors. You can't predict what value it might have. When did the name "Charlotte" fall out of fashion? Is it true people used to keep animals as "pets"? Look, amazing, in the 20th century, it says here, they hadn't even moved to metric time yet. Obscure but it all adds to the sum of human knowledge. Luckily for me I find it interesting. However, any discussions about the value or otherwise of such minutiae would need a thread of its own. |
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New Mon 6 Jun 11 23:58
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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There is a very real lesson to be learned from all this talk of media. There is throughout history, the lesson of how to preserve the life of man on media. From disintegrated dead sea scrolls, through lost and dead languages, faded photographs, nitrate film that's crumbled to dusk or self combusted. You would think that in the modern world this problem would be cracked. We have in fact made it worse over the last 30 years with a plethora of short lived optical and magnetic storage types and methods, none of interchangeable or compatible. And we are now currently generating more and more data, so you have the problem of what to conserve or preserve because you cant keep it all. Who is qualified to make that choice? |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:00
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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>> Who is qualified to make that choice? Steve Jobs aka Iffy. :-) Not heard about iCloud yet? Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 00:00
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:01
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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| Just been reading it. And IOS 5 |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 00:06
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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Looks like iPhones will be getting Android style notifications this autumn. I am surprised it didn't already. A lesson for Microsoft on upgrades though. Apple will be selling the MacOS X Lion upgrade for £20.99 ($29.99) and this covers all machines in the house sharing the logon to the app store. If Microsoft charged about £20 for upgrades then far more would upgrade. I got Snow Leopard for the cost of postage mind. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 07:54
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Iffy
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...Steve Jobs aka Iffy. :-) Not heard about iCloud yet?... iCloud? Lion upgrade? Think I must have had my head in the clouds - going to have to get with the programme here. Do I want it? What is it? Where is it? What's going on? |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:00
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Focusless
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| Some iCloud info: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13675220 |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:06
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Iffy
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Aw, thanks Focus, I was about to have a root around. |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 21:21
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - PhilW
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Interesting thread. I class myself as a "technotit" even though I have been intrigued by computers and their capabilities since the early '80s and my first messing about with a Commodore Pet and a few attempts to write simple statistical programs to analyse data collected on fieldcourses. I was lucky, as a teacher, that my school encouraged this and I went on several courses about using BBC Micros, Rm 380zs (?) etc. We also managed to obtain some of the first (in schools) satellite tracking stuff and had the hardware to get weather satellite images (Meteosat, Noaa 10, 11, 12(?) etc which intrigued the pupils. I even spent a lot of time with a local university professor who was using the beginnings of the internet to communicate with his colleagues in the USA and download pictures from various scace exploration programs. So (what, you are saying!!) we engaged with the "Domesday" project with great enthusiasm. I, and three other colleagues organised a year group (about 90 pupils) to gather information. Mini-buses buzzed all over our area, numerous interviews, photographs etc were done and taken. Vast amounts of time were taken processing, refining and writing up the results. We were all very excited about the prospects of the new "Domesday Book" that we would be part of - we (Geog Dept) involved the History Dept (they did a load of stuff on the original Domeday Book), Biology Dept (for all the stuff about agricultural land use) etc. All the data, interviews etc were sent off. And then? Nothing. From my vague memories of what happened next I seem to recall that in order to view the results, we had to buy the video disc and a player. I think it would have cost about £2000 which was rather a lot of money for a Geog Dept budget to demand ( I think I got about £300 a year at the time). School bursar said "no chance". I tried local libraries, other schools and two local universities and nowhere could I find a way to show our pupils the results of their work. Yes, it was a good exercise in all those things that Zero extolls but no better than the usual fieldwork exercises that we organised and those were much more relevant to the syllabus we followed and the statistical techniques required by O and A level (or was it already GCSE?). The follow up to these was also available to the pupils involved and they could take pride in what they had produced and see how it affected (improved, usually) their exam results. Pupils were still asking me, months and even years later "What happened to that Domesday stuff, Sir" (Yes!!And even now I still see now Middle aged pupils and they still call me Sir when I see them in the street!!) I have searched and searched the data base in the last few days - I cannot remember the exact area we researched and, despite seaching the whole county, nor can I find anything that we might have contributed. Many years ago I consulted many teachers at schools within a 20 mile radius of us as to whether they had taken part and whether they had found any results on computer or laserdisc. The answers were Yes, no and "who can afford a laserdisc player". Sorry for long post. Technotit Phil |
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 21:54
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - rtj70
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My school only bought one of these systems. Still pricey though weren't they. And was Leif and others have said, compared to what we are used to now, looks limited (aka naff). But this was 25 years ago! Compare for example the latest game on PC/XBOX/PS3, such as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3: www.callofduty.com/mw3/videos/reveal And Chucky Egg on the BBC Micro: www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5IEyJgawbg Okay Chuckie Egg was out in 1983. So also what about this on the Atari ST - Dungeon Master (1987): www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3UdUWU4j1Y Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 21:55
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 22:27
Domesday "reloaded" - at last - Zero
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>> My school only bought one of these systems. Still pricey though weren't they. And was >> Leif and others have said, compared to what we are used to now, looks limited >> (aka naff). But this was 25 years ago! >> >> Compare for example the latest game on PC/XBOX/PS3, such as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare >> 3: This is the latest and greatest game www.rockstargames.com/lanoire/ Said to push the gaming genre on by a huge leap. Cost as much to make as a feature film, as it should they employed and scanned in real actors. |
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