Non-motoring > Are we the authors of our own fate? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Pat Replies: 189
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 06:47 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Pat

I think at car4play we may be.

I’m concerned about the way things have panned out during the second year of this forum.

Most of us had experienced the oppressive moderation in the backroom, the persistent trolls and frequent spats between members that were bizarrely, allowed to get offensive and boring on many occasions.

Car4play was like changing schools to one where the teachers cared and treated you as equals, the other pupils no longer bullied and called you names, laughed when they tripped you up, and welcomed you with open arms.

The first year was a delight, and I know I’m not the only one who felt I was lucky to have been given the opportunity to be a part of a growing community of online friends, who I trusted and respected.

What has gone wrong?

Why are we going backwards?

We’re alienating long term members of both forums at a fast rate of progress. We’re not really attracting any new ones either, not regular posters who are the backbone of any online community.

It may appear we have new names signing on, only to find it’s a second identity, and some forum members are talking to themselves. Others are changed names which only serve to confuse many of us, while bringing the owners a brief moment of pleasure as they watch.

The continuing animosity with the backroom is tedious and almost always ends in tears, so why do we have to look back, and gloat? Why not enjoy what we have and help it to grow?

Thread drift has been a new experience on here for most of us, and one we’ve enjoyed to the full and I feel, has contributed to the success during car4play’s first year.

Of course, that has to be balanced by the forum spats that in some cases are allowed to go far too far and end up becoming personal. Enjoyable no doubt, by the two people sparring for top spot, but once personal remarks come into it the forum goes remarkably quiet for a few hours while we all walk quietly away from this intense ‘willy waving’ contest.

Someone mentioned yesterday something about a Gentlemen’s Club, and it seems to me that this is what we’ve turned into with an inner clique that doesn’t welcome outsiders, doesn’t like different opinions and has no respect for anyone other than a select few.

Does that sound strangely familiar?

Surely that’s what we all experienced in the backroom and vowed to get away from?

The greatest attribute of any online community is self moderation, and I think it really is time we took a long hard look at ourselves as individuals and examined our behaviour and attitude to others.

Of course it may be that this Gentlemen’s club has already closed its doors to new members and the last one of the remaining stalwarts will switch off the lights on their way out before too much longer.

I do hope not.
Pat


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New Fri 3 Jun 11 08:37 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
I think you are navel gazing just a touch. Sure there are times when it gets a bit personal, but it dies down pretty quickly on its own.

This place is unique, I can think of no other forum anywhere on the web, where give the very light touch moderating this place has, wouldn't quickly plunge into a cesspit of abuse, name calling, radicalism, and hostility.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 08:49 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - helicopter
Oh why don't you just **** off Z ..........

You have no idea what you are talking about.......

Stupid ********

:)
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 08:54 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
I don't see any Radicalism in there?

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 09:01 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - helicopter
Z you fail to see the irony.........

......as radicalism is departing from the usual or customary....... and I do not normally submit offensive posts .......

.........my entire post was an example of radicalism :0)

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 09:02 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Ah!

Top marks then. Good get out.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 3 Jun 11 at 09:03
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      1  
New Fri 3 Jun 11 09:11 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - helicopter
Going back to Pats original very thoughtful and reflective post, yes, I do sometimes find the forum a bit cliquey and sometimes get irritated by views expressed but then that is just like life itself isn't it?

If you have no law and order , ie mods , life descends into anarchy and I suppose the backroom and C4play moderating styles work a bit like comparing the speed camera with no discretion to the copper who gives you a talking to and lets you off with a warning......

I know which one I prefer.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 09:18 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
I see someone is no fan of Irony, looks like you just earned a red growly faced gong! Is that your first? If so congratulations.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 09:40 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - helicopter
It is Z yes......

I feel quite proud...... I shall wear it as a badge of honour.

To some people of course an irony is for pressing your shirty......

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:11 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Could of course be an ironically awarded gong. Tricky thing irony.

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:38 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - helicopter
It could indeed CGN......meaning that whoever awarded it was really praising my posting.....showing a keen understanding of irony.


Irony......

a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what one says or does.......

So who is going to own up to awarding the ironic gong ....?

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 16:47 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
>> So who is going to own up to awarding the ironic gong ....?
ironically, no-one.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 16:54 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>> >> So who is going to own up to awarding the ironic gong ....?
>> ironically, no-one.

Could it have been you, that split second before you realised it was ironic?
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 17:03 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Alas not, It appeared after i was poked to appreciate the irony of it.


Anyway, I am a collector, not a giver.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 21:32 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Leif
retpocileh said:

>> Oh why don't you just **** off Z ..........
>>
>> You have no idea what you are talking about.......
>>
>> Stupid ********
>>
>> :)

Ha ha.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 09:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Pat
>> think you are navel gazing just a touch<<

Good, that means I've struck a chord then!

This isn't a prod at the mods, more a request for self moderation to survive.

Pat
Last edited by: pda on Fri 3 Jun 11 at 09:14
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:03 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Robin O'Reliant
I like it here.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:27 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - FocalPoint
So do I, on the whole. Mind you, Pat has a point and so does Zero.

My take? It's sad if a virtual community which is based on messages which are sometimes misunderstood, sometimes needlessly combative, occasionally overly sensitive and frequently "willy-waving" (thank you, Pat) - it's sad if such thing becomes that important in people's lives.

I've always been cynical about the whole concept of "online communities", where people present a persona and, sheltering behind it, behave in ways they would never do face-to-face. Far better to engage with the real world and treat the forum as a piece of fun - where, nevertheless, certain standards should of course prevail.

If c4p ceased to exist it would be a cause for regret, but not the end of the world. Certainly its fate lies largely in the hands of its members, as Pat says. Perhaps the real problem is that the regulars spend too much time here, with too little to say apart from scoring points. I'm guilty of it myself. We could certainly do with a lot more new members.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - neiltoo
I'm not a regular contributor, but I visit here and HJ most days.
I find HJ a little tedious now, with very little hard fact of use or interest to me.
I normally enjoy the legal threads, but even that gets tedious with newbies asking questions where I find the answers glaringly obvious. Mind you I've been around a few years, and I keep my eyes, ears and mind open.
Here I think we're light on the motoring facts, but I greatly enjoy the non-motoring threads. Yes, some contributors are needlessly rude, but few comments, even from them are completely worthless. The computer thread is sometimes very useful to me.
I don't think that much needs changing. The limited active membership is a worry, but I think that is normal for many forum sites.
I was a member on a site on Italy for many years. That had a major hiatus three years ago, and there was a night of the long Knives, when many members were thrown off, the site became very tedious after that, and much less fun.
One of the major "criminals" took over another site and ran that, with the rest of the dispossessed, and that site was entertaining and useful, until she stopped it for personal reasons. Like this one, however, there was only a fairly small active membership.
Anyway, I know that if I have a sensible question, I can ask it here.
If I'm answered unkindly, I shan't take my ball home!


By the way, I'm a pedant, so
It's could have, not could of.

and many others.........
Last edited by: neiltoo on Fri 3 Jun 11 at 10:13
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:16 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
"It's could have, not could of."

You are of course correct. Sloppy on my my part.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:19 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - neiltoo
>>>"It's could have, not could of."

You are of course correct. Sloppy on my my part.


Noooo! not you.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Just re-read that. Brain addled this mornng
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 11:35 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Dog
>>Brain addled this mornng<<

Eaten any saladings lately??
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 21:36 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Leif
>> Sloppy on my my part.

Do we really need such personal details?
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 10:15 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - VxFan
>> This isn't a prod at the mods

I didn't see it as that way at all. I saw it as a very reasoned and balanced post.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 11:50 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...I saw it as a very reasoned and balanced post...

I can't disagree with it, and you know me, if I could, I would.

One thing I like about c4p is very few members bear a grudge.

I might have a spat with a member in a thread one day, but that same member will reply to a post of mine in another thread the next day as if nothing had happened.

The spats are themselves - in some cases - regrettable, but they do provide interest.

It's a bit like driving past a road accident.

No one would wish a crash on anybody, but we all like to have a good look.



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New Fri 3 Jun 11 16:18 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - rtj70
Pat,

Good original post above... I like the fact thread drift is allowed. It's a bit like chatting in a pub and conversations do drift.

More than self moderation, new members are needed but as this is still only a forum there is little to attract new members. What's happening about developing the site. There was talk of big ideas a year ago and nothing has happened since.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:06 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - VxFan
>> What's happening about developing the site. There was talk of big ideas a year ago and nothing has happened since.

From what I understand things got a bit delayed, but it's now progressing again.

Watch this space.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 12:03 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Stuu
>>What has gone wrong? Why are we going backwards?<<

I dont think things in general have gone wrong nor are we going backwards. Its the end of the honeymoon period and the forum has established its identity, now we have to strive for the next break free moment which needs to focus around active membership.
I would rather welcome more sparing partners, ive almost run out of gags about Zeros Mitsubishi taxi.

What I know from many other car specific motoring forums is that the way we interact on here is actually rather polite and dont get me started on Mumsnet. Anyone who doesnt think this is overall rather civilised clearly needs to get out more online. It really is pretty good which is why we have regulars in the first place.

>>We’re alienating long term members of both forums at a fast rate of progress<<

A few yes but in all honesty, I think its more a reflection on how they deal with conflict than the conflicts themselves. The backroom was never cuddle-central, but the mods tended to snip away at anything mildly contentious ( less so now I see ) so of course the dislike tended to be directed towards 'the system' running the forum rather than members themselves. Thats the problem with freedom, it rather weeds out the weak whereas if you have a very strict structure of conduct, its easy to protect those with sensitive feelings, so we exchanged a safety structure for freedom, but at times we arent too clever at self-policing. Thats all our fault no doubt and we must improve that aspect of things.

>>Someone mentioned yesterday something about a Gentlemen’s Club, and it seems to me that this is what we’ve turned into with an inner clique that doesn’t welcome outsiders, doesn’t like different opinions and has no respect for anyone other than a select few.<<

Absolutely disagree with this. The very reason we have such heated debate on here is because we have so many differing views. There may be times when your in a minority, others when your in a majority. Thats true of life anyway, but who on earth wants a consensus on everything anyway, how dull and communist would that be?
I think there is rather more respect here than is demonstrated through the written word.

I think we rather need a range of smilies to give better demonstration of the tone with which certain comments are intended. I know some people dont like them, but part of communication with other human beings is through facial expression, something you cant do in the written word, but smilies do allow you to go some way to qualifying your context/tone. Ive seen many instances when people get their knickers in a knot over misunderstood off the cuff comments.

Finally, have we got a Facebook page - if not why on earth not, trick missed surely.

I think there are a lot of people who would, if they knew we existed, love to come here and take part, let rip on the world and generally enjoy the type of discourse we have here.
Its not really a motoring forum as such anymore because I think we can tackle pretty much any subject with a fair degree of success, even just in the small membership we have such a wealth of knowledge and opinion from all directions, the only thing that reallys holds the place back is people havent heard of us.

I think many would rather like it here and while we do have issues, atleast we care enough to want to sort them.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 12:22 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - BobbyG
My tuppence worth

1. Do not let people change their usernames - in a virtual world with virtual friends you need to build up a a picture of who you are dealing with. You get this in dribs and drabs from the information they post, sometimes maybe more personal insights on some posts.
For someone to disappear and reappear as someone else is confusing to simpletons like me.

2. Facebook - not quite sure how Facebook groups work but there is plenty of information that I do not want to share with virtual friends on here. I am very wary of Facebook as it is and I don't really like mixing work colleagues and friends/family. I wouldn't want to bore you lot with my daily life either!

3. I like the beauty of this place being anonymous - not for any secretive reasons (and it wouldn't take too long to find my identity, some already have it anyway) but by being virtual and not real, then I don't take things personal and I can dip in and out when I want.

4. I think it has been discussed before about opening up the information on profiles - on sites like Pistonheads you can click on profile for more info - again not wanting to make this info too personal but it would allow, for example, pictures of your car. Also being able to add photos to threads can be informative.

5. New memebers definitely needed - I have always looked on this as "your local", where you can drop in or out, share chat with friends, maybe have a bit of banter or argument, maybe learn something new, get advice etc but drink up at the end of the night and leave as friends. But how do you sell that to new members and how do you attract them in?
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 12:36 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Stuu
Re Facebook, we dont have to join the group, its just a vehicle for getting the web addy of this place out there in a place with huge traffic. Ignore it at our peril I say.

Im not sure if Twitter could be used other than a 'quote of the hour' type thing, which may give people a feel for the place.

These media are important for gaining huge exposure.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 12:45 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
I dislike too many rules, but another vote from me for some restriction on name changes.

Much of the attraction of c4p is knowing a little of who you are speaking to.

I did change my name a while back, but there's a link to the old one in my profile and I've no intention of changing it again.

Changing your name occasionally for a reason - change of car, for example - is OK.

But not every few days or weeks.


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New Fri 3 Jun 11 13:02 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
I'm not normally one for repeating myself, I say, I'm not normally one for repeating myself....but it would be helpful if name changers would end their post with 'was Joe Soap' for a while, as many used to on the other forum.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 13:09 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Alanovich
The modern convention for this suggestion, Clk, is "TAFKA" - The Artist Formerly Known As.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 13:13 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
And I suppose the second letter could be changed to suit. Thanks, Alanovic.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 13:25 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Focusless
So are we saying is really a question of etiquette, with perhaps the mods keeping an eye out for anyone attempting to do something naughty (as I'm sure they do anyway)?

Personally name changing doesn't bother me, although I agree it's nice for people to let us know who they were, assuming they're not attempting to hide for a valid reason.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 13:45 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Webmaster
>> Personally name changing doesn't bother me

Or me because I get auto notification of name changes, which then get forwarded on to the mods. We know who's who, and in general it doesn't take you lot very long to work it out either.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 17:23 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...name changing...it doesn't take you lot very long to work it out either...

The danger with that approach is we get tired of working it out, become frustrated, lose interest and go.

Visiting here is meant to be a pleasure not a challenge.

As a parallel, newspapers are written for someone with a reading age of 12.

That is not an insult to the readers, but it has been found that when the university professor picks up his paper, he wants an easy, simple read.

As do the rest of us.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 17:29 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
>> As a parallel, newspapers are written for someone with a reading age of 12.

THE SUN: 8.5 Years
THE TELEGRAPH: 14 Years
THE GUARDIAN: 16 Years

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 17:33 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
What's the Mail or the Express?

Is that about 12?

Worth pointing out the Sun still sells in millions, the Telegraph was well under a million last time I looked, and The Guardian is read by one man and his dog.

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 18:17 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Bromptonaut
>> Worth pointing out the Sun still sells in millions, the Telegraph was well under a
>> million last time I looked, and The Guardian is read by one man and his
>> dog bike.

Fixed that for you!!
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 18:29 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...Fixed that for you!!...

You may not believe this, but I nearly added: "...or in Bromptonaut's case, one man and his bike".

But then I thought you might have posted before about having a dog, and you know how highly we journalists value accuracy.

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New Sat 4 Jun 11 01:45 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
THE SUN: 8.5 Years
THE TELEGRAPH: 14 Years
THE GUARDIAN: 16 Years


What about the thunderer?

When I were a student the small ads were still on the front page and there were no typos. Then Lord Thomson modernized it with typos and a front page. Now it's the Digger's with typos, a front page and an anti-British, anti-human agenda. So its reading age has moved from 6th form swot, say 17, through young fogey up to 40 and now it's evil offshore Methuselah, 900 plus.

I think Zeddo underrates the Terrorflag and overrates the Grauniad personally. But they are all capable of great awfulness and the occasional, even consistent for a while, episode of not being quite so bad in some limited and specific way.

Le Monde isn't what it was. The IHT is good for the adult US viewpoint.

Apparently the Daily Star headline on the UBL wet job was OSAMA BIN LADEN ASSASSINATED. Former CIA agent shot.

Sharp huh?
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 13:33 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Alanovich
>> And I suppose the second letter could be changed to suit.

Ha ha! Yes indeed. Although "A" can be quite adaptable in itself.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 15:51 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Slidingpillar
I read more than I post by quite a long way.

Joined this site for the talk on cars as such matters interest me. Still visit HJ's site but more for the legal side than anything else.

As for personal attacks etc, I tend to switch off and go else where. Shame if the OP has raised an interesting point, but the web is like that.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 16:01 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - devonite
Quark summed it up perfectly in the final episode of Deep Space Nine when he said:

"The more things change, the more they stay the same!"
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 16:53 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Are we the authors of our own fate?

Bit like the Climate Change thing really which always raises the same old questions.

Is it really happening?
Is it as bad a problem as they say?
What can we do?
Do we really care?
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 3 Jun 11 at 16:53
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 17:07 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - rtj70
Climate change is big money though and has happened before without our help.

Not sure what we can really do though as the developing world will make up for any cuts.

So lets all enjoy life in the now.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 17:55 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
A thought on forum traffic.

I think Pat once posted on here that the forum on her lorry drivers' site is quieter in the summer.

So the good weather and annual holidays for members could have an impact.

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New Fri 3 Jun 11 18:10 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Mapmaker
Alienating? I think people do drift away from fora; and come back sometimes. You can get bored with posting the same things in the same place.

There may be a problem here in that we don't attract new punters so you notice when people are on (a posting) holiday.

But then I once read that having a .com site reduces the chances of a google hit when googling .
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 19:41 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Manatee
Referring the the opening post, and I'm writing this without looking at all the replies, so I don't know which way the wind is blowing:

Well said Pat. A bit of banter is fine. Sometimes in the heat of the moment, a strong response too. Even the odd falling out, without grudge bearing.

Calculated insults, sneering, belittling, and point-scoring are different. Now, some might say it's only a forum, we are all grown up, shouldn't be so sensitive, blah blah...but for me that's not an argument unless you think the whole exercise has no value.

When I go to the pub, I don't choose to hobnob with people who sneer at me or each other. It's not uplifting, fun, or worthwhile. However thick skinned we can be when we run into boors and louts, few of us choose to spend time with them - and there is your answer to departing membership.

When people know each other well - even in a virtual way - they can say offensive things without giving offence. There are one or two here who can do that sparingly and amusingly. It can be overdone, tediously; or misjudged, hurtfully; or misjudged and overdone, which just creates an unpleasant atmosphere.

I don't need everybody to agree with me all the time - in the pub, I prefer setting the world to rights with those who treat each other as equals, and make an effort to be agreeable even when they don't agree. It's much the same here.

Anybody want a pint? It's Friday night, after all.

Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 3 Jun 11 at 19:44
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 20:03 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Bromptonaut
Good points well made by Mapmaker.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 20:26 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Manatee
having reminded myself it's Friday, I'm off to the fleshpots (of Princes Risborough).

TTFN.
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 20:38 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - swiss tony
>> having reminded myself it's Friday, I'm off to the fleshpots (of Princes Risborough).

Didn't realise you were that local to me... (High Wycombe)
Maybe we could meet up for a pint one night?
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 00:59 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Manatee
>> Maybe we could meet up for a pint one night?

There's an idea. I don't live in PR - it's about halfway to Wycombe from here, Tring way, so equidistant.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 17:59 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - swiss tony
>> >> Maybe we could meet up for a pint one night?
>>
>> There's an idea. I don't live in PR - it's about halfway to Wycombe from
>> here, Tring way, so equidistant.
>>
OK, lets try and make some arrangements...
... Ill start another thread, and see if anyone else local is interested!
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 20:30 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Focusless
>> Good points well made by Mapmaker.

...but you replied to Manatee - is that who you meant?
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New Fri 3 Jun 11 21:35 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Bromptonaut
>> ...but you replied to Manatee - is that who you meant?

Yep, my mistake!!
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 01:31 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> Calculated insults, sneering, belittling, and point-scoring are different

A gong from me for that Sea-cow... and the rest of your post.

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New Sat 4 Jun 11 03:43 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Pat
I'm pleased at the reactions to this post, particularly Stu and Manatee.

Stu made some very good points and put a lot of thought into his reply. Some of the points completely disagreed with mine, but forced me to realise I may not be right about everything (that's unusual for a female!)

Manatee managed to say what I tried to say far more eloquently than I could have done.

Whatever the outcome, it has made us all look at ourselves a little closer, and hopefully realise just how lucky we are to have car4play.

I read every post on here but only reply to a few, and you do build a picture of the posters in your mind.

I love the banter, even the somewhat heated discussions, but what I don't like to see is anyone hurt or upset by others remarks.

Some of us have broad shoulders, others haven't.
Even those that have, can have other things going on in their lives that make things appear out of proportion at times.

I'm off to do a bit of driving on the right today and may or may not have a dongle connection until late on Sunday, so be good:)

Pat
Last edited by: pda on Sat 4 Jun 11 at 03:46
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 07:44 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>> Post Fri 3 Jun 11 19:41

Good post, Manatee. Worth a gong and bar.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 13:50 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Robin O'Reliant
>> Good post, Manatee. Worth a gong and bar.
>>

GONG!

You're barred.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 14:00 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Manatee
Well, I do go on a bit. Serves me right.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 14:00 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Meldrew
I have only arrived here recently and try to read a lot and post a little + keep it relevant

Years ago I was told that there were 3 stages of a "discussion" and I see quite a lot of it here.

1. Bald statement of fact
2. Blunt contradiction
3 Verbal abuse

There seems to a hostile and confrontational approach to a lot of posts and I don't think that many people who see it will be encouraged to join unless that is what they are looking for!
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 14:21 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>>> There seems to a hostile and confrontational approach to a lot of posts and I don't think that many people who see it will be encouraged to join unless that is what they are looking for!


Ah shaddap Miseryguts...

:o}


On a more serious note, Meldrew, although hostility and a wish for confrontation are sometimes present, they are just as often imagined by someone who hasn't quite 'got' the irony, self-satire or simple rough friendliness of some post or other.

To me the written word is a live, squirming thing, but to many others it seems a cold, difficult, over-cerebral means of communication. Without a tone of voice or facial expression to go with it, it is open to misinterpretation by individuals who haven't really understood the writer's style.

Another problem arises with people who won't admit it when they are wrong or have misunderstood something. They get terribly upset instead of biting the bullet and admitting something. To me this seems infantile behaviour, but it seems quite widespread.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 16:17 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Meldrew
Thank you AC. Your reply to me, even in jest, and the statements you make in the last paragraph summarize some things that seem slightly unpleasant about this place, to a newcomer at least!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sat 4 Jun 11 at 16:20
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      1  
New Sat 4 Jun 11 16:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - nyx2k
i really dont want a forum that is just qeustions and answers, stick to the facts like hj.
i like the banter inbetween getting your query answered. it doesnt matter what is fact or opinion, you need to work that out yourself.
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      1  
New Sat 4 Jun 11 16:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
Are you saying that I seem slightly unpleasant Meldrew? Because I certainly don't mean to be.

Don't you see excessively thin-skinned readings as something of a problem? Are we not supposedly adult here?
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 16:36 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - nyx2k
i took it to mean we were all slightly unpleasant and a newbie wouldnt like it.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 16:41 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> i took it to mean we were all slightly unpleasant and a newbie wouldnt like it.

I am almost tempted to say that we would obviously be better off without a bunch of damn rabbits scampering pointlessly about and squealing when someone treads on their paw.

But that would sound slightly unpleasant, so I won't say it.
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      1  
New Sat 4 Jun 11 17:32 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Dog
>>But that would sound slightly unpleasant, so I won't say it.<<

You make me roll up Sire (and I'm not talking Ganja)

:-D
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 16:59 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Meldrew
No, I was not suggesting any one individual was unpleasant nor that all posters are. There are situations where somebody says Black is Black, someone ripostes that no Black is White, grey is not mentioned and the discussion goes round in circles until somebody says "End Of!"
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 17:11 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - nyx2k
yes but that's the same of all forums in every country on every subject in the world.
all forums are accused of not being easy for new people but all anyone needs to do is join in with the chat or ask and answer questions and you are no longer anewbie, it only takes a few posts to break the ice
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 20:46 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Cliff Pope
Good wake-up call from Pat, and lots of good points made in subsequent posts.

I just have one new thought re cliquiness (sp?). I think it is a sensible convention that within a thread someone's name can be abbreviated. Thus if Fotherington-Thomas posts, others replying can refer to FT. But to use initials outside a thread smacks of exclusivity. A new member has no idea who AC, CP, FT, Rats, etc are, and it just gives an impression of a lot of in-jokes that new-comers aren't meant to understand.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:47 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> cliquiness (sp?).

May not be the only spelling CP, but it's certainly the one I would use.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:26 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Leif
>> There seems to a hostile and confrontational approach to a lot of posts and I
>> don't think that many people who see it will be encouraged to join unless that
>> is what they are looking for!

You daft tosspot, I see no abuse here, the place is really friendly. (Irony alert.) Seriously though, I find it very hard to find abuse on this forum. There is banter, some such as Zero are decidedly argumentative, but not abusive. Maybe some people interpret argument as abuse? Or maybe I miss something that exists?

I know some forums where the only posts allowed are along the lines of "Oh gee that's really great" and "I love that new car".
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:29 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero

>> banter, some such as Zero are decidedly argumentative,

Utter rubbish, completely untrue.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:42 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
"Utter rubbish, completely untrue."

That's not an argument it's just contradiction.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:44 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> That's not an argument it's just contradiction.

No it isn't, it's an argument.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:47 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
No it's not
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 4 Jun 11 at 22:47
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:47 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
Now you're just contradicting.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:51 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
No I'm not - sorry your' time is up.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:52 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
No it isn't.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:57 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
I've had enough of this.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:02 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
I bet you wished you had been a lumberjack...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZa26_esLBE
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:07 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Funnily enough this very evening I have booked a flight to British Columbia!
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
With your best Girlie by your side?
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:19 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Absolutely - off to see my daughter and grandchildren. Don't suppose I'll do a lot of hanging around in bars at Canadian prices. Vancouver and BC is a great place for a holiday actually.

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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:58 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - rtj70
>> Vancouver and BC is a great place for a holiday actually.

Visited Vancouver for a conference whilst at Uni. Nice place. I found the Guinness building and the bridge they also built interesting too. The building was built from the top down apparently! (off the lift shafts). The main entrance was not on ground level if you've seen the building.

Prices back in 1994 (or was it 1995) will have been cheaper. But realised how uni type lecturers and researchers get some good trips. Went in my first (and only) visit to IMAX there.

Oh dear thread drift from me again.

www.emporis.com/application/?nav=image&id=459391
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 00:01
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:25 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> British Columbia!

Major source of good quality cannabis for the US West Coast market I think. Pretty well legal there too.

Of course cannabis is deadly so you had better watch out.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Huge drug problem in Vancouver. A drive down Main crossing Hastings Street is a real eye opener with drug dealers every few yards and heroin addicts shooting up quite openly and unconscious addicts lying in shop doorways. Strange thing is the area is only a few hundred yards from China Town, one of the major tourist areas. Distinctly unnerving first time you see it.

Marijuana trade mainly controlled by the Koreans who specialise in converting large suburban houses (called Grow Ops) for its production. My daughter recently bought a house and one of the thing she had have to check for in potential properties was any sign that a house has been used for that purpose, as they typically have faulty wiring, problems with mould and dangerous modifications to the construction especially the roofspace.

More worryingly the drug gangs often break into houses know for Gro OPs to steal the product.

Marijuana use isn't necessarily a problem but the criminality associated with it surely is


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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:22 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - rtj70
>> Huge drug problem in Vancouver.

It was back then too to be honest. I saw needle exchanges. But that was 1994 I think. I'd hoped it had improved. But if you didn't venture that way. I did for vegan restaurants (I eat meat though!).
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:14 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Leif
>> I bet you wished you had been a lumberjack...
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZa26_esLBE

The German version is better:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1q0UDZD2U&NR=1

They did a show in German for German TV. None of them spoke German.
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 23:20 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Not exactly Der Panzerlied is it.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Ted

....and if CG misses the flight to Vancouver, there are always flying lessonn to be had....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1oMhMwUbgc

Ted
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New Sat 4 Jun 11 22:53 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Ted

Yes, it is.

Ted
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:08 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - VxFan
>> I have only arrived here recently

Really? I thought you had another account that you used up until recently.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:15 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Well if we are authors of our own fate, where are my royalty payments?
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 09:34 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Leif
>> Well if we are authors of our own fate, where are my royalty payments?

So you think you are royalty now do you. Prince Zero, King Zero ...
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:52 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero

>> So you think you are royalty now do you. Prince Zero, King Zero ...

Emperor.

So that means you can address me as, Your Imperial Majesty, Lord Zero
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Aha, So who is Meldrew's alter ego?
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 00:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - rtj70
Dave you are going back to the old days challenging someone with multiple accounts. Unless things have improved I could have dozens of accounts and you'd not know.... not challenging the mods.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 06:29 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
Bobby G. said: But how do you sell that to new members and how do you attract them in?

My view is that the way the world appears, very contentious in everyday life, basic standards slipping etc., that we will struggle to attract new members who firstly, wish to work the way we do and secondly have enough basic intelligence to hold a conversation. Some may see these remarks as unfair, but having been an employer for 34 years I can assure you I am comfortable in those remarks. In addition the name may attract several folk who may think that there is more to this than there is and then they become disappointed! Can the system tell if people are just looking?

Iffy said: Changing your name occasionally for a reason - change of car, for example - is OK., but not every few days or weeks.

Concur.

On Fri 3 Jun 11 at 19:41 Manatee said: A lot.

Excellent.

Pat’s post: Again excellent.

As regards moderation. If it was equal for all it would be OK.

Very best regards to you all,

Martin.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 09:23 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
In what way is it not equal for all? Sorry mate I am going to ask you to justify that one!
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 09:48 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...In what way is it not equal for all?...

Hard to answer that question without upsetting folk or re-opening old wounds.

But Martin is right.

Some posters have made remarks which, if made by another poster, would be jumped on.

Doesn't happen a lot, and I think the mods don't have time to read every thread, so if no one complains, nothing is done.



Last edited by: Iffy on Sun 5 Jun 11 at 09:49
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:10 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Martin is suggesting there is a deliberate policy of moderation discrimination, not "stuff that slips through"
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:14 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...Martin is suggesting there is a deliberate policy of moderation discrimination, not "stuff that slips through"...

I was trying to be tactful, which is most unlike me.

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New Sun 5 Jun 11 09:52 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
"My view is that the way the world appears, very contentious in everyday life, basic standards slipping etc., that we will struggle to attract new members who firstly, wish to work the way we do and secondly have enough basic intelligence to hold a conversation. '


"Quite frankly that view of life is enough to put off any young intelligent person"
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:03 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
Martin said:...have enough basic intelligence to hold a conversation...

I've had some experience of dealing with young people at work and, in a different way, at court.

Once again, I have to agree with the Devonian builder.

A more tactful way to put it is the ability range of today's 16 to 21-year-olds is very wide.

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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:53 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
"A more tactful way to put it is the ability range of today's 16 to 21-year-olds is very wide."

Always was. There are plenty of intelligent and educated young people out there but they have their own places to hang out and are not really likely to spend long here.

This forum sometimes is like a pub full of grumpy old men with very predictable views. You know the sort of thing, the whole world is going to pot, things were better when they were young, all politicians, are crooks, the young of today don't know they're born etc, etc. and these posters are only really looking for their world view to be reinforced by those with a similar outlook.







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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:56 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>> Sorry mate I am going to ask you to justify that one!

My crystal ball tells me that MD's comment was not aimed at Z.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:00 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...My crystal ball tells me that MD's comment was not aimed at Z...

Cough, splutter.

Sorry, a slurp of coffee went down the wrong way.

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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:01 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
I didnt for one moment think it was. Ok lets not be a diplomatic iffy and cut to the core.

Sounds like Martin thinks he is victimised, and I think that's woodblocks.

If I have that wrong I apologise.
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 06:10 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
I don't need to justify it. Just keep those peepers open. Sledge hammer to crack a nut from the 'Luton' Boy at times.......................but not for all. Give 'em a uniform and look out!
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Meldrew
That is correct. I, Meldrew, have only arrived here recently.
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      1  
New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:36 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...I, Meldrew, have only arrived here recently...

Melders,

One good thing about this place is it's an open book.

Each poster has his or her character, but no one seeks to hide it.

So you can be sure it's not going to get any better than what you've seen already, but neither is it going to get any worse. :)

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New Sun 5 Jun 11 10:56 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Cliff Pope
>> I, Meldrew, have only arrived here recently.
>>


I love the style - "I, Meldrew" but I think the rest could be tidied up a bit :)

The sentence sounds like a school latin exercise;

Translate the following:

"I, Meldrew, but recently arrived at the Forum"
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:02 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...The sentence sounds like a school latin exercise...

And another thing Melders, one or two on here are classically educated, others are just educated, and some are not educated at all.

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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:09 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>> and some are not educated at all.

You can't talk to me like that, I've got two 'O' levels and a parrot...
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:09 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - swiss tony
>> >> and some are not educated at all.
>>
>> You can't talk to me like that, I've got two 'O' levels and a parrot...
>>
A Parrot?
is it alive?
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:10 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
Got stuffed.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - swiss tony
>> Got stuffed.
>>
Like this one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Norwegian Blue then.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 11:15 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Meldrew
What I intended to convey was that Meldrew was new, as opposed to ??????? who is not and has retired. Meanwhile, for the classically educated:-

Ego Meldrew , tamen nuper supervenio procul Forum "
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 14:51 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - FocalPoint
">> I have only arrived here recently

Really? I thought you had another account that you used up until recently."

Well, VxFan should know.

So, another forum member with more than one account. I have a feeling this is more common than the mods care to admit.

Anyway, how would they know? More than one member might be using an individual computer, or different computers might be using one internet connection.

Might try it myself...

(signed) FocalPoint, formerly ChrisPeugeot, aka...
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 14:52
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 16:03 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
"So, another forum member with more than one account. "

Known on Americans forums I believe as sock-puppets. Used to endorse and promote the member's point of view. Definitely a few sock-puppets here!
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 16:15 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>>Definitely a few sock-puppets here!

Definitely, CGN. I couldn't agree more, in fact I find it hard to disagree with anything you post on this forum.

Top man in my opinion.
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      1  
New Tue 7 Jun 11 18:15 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - CGNorwich
Its all too much Clk Sec. First AC and now you.
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 18:18 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Skoda
>> Its all too much Clk Sec

You jest but i'm forever mixing you two up! You even have similar breaks in posting... I call foul! :-)
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 19:08 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - VxFan
>> So, another forum member with more than one account.

He did mention above that the previous alias has retired, so he hasn't more than one account anymore.
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 19:19 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>> He did mention above that the previous alias has retired, so he hasn't more than
>> one account anymore.

I think we know who it is, or was. Quite a nice chap, actually.
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 19:58 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - FocalPoint
Comments like:

"I have only arrived here recently."

"I, Meldrew, have only arrived here recently."

"What I intended to convey was that Meldrew was new, as opposed to ??????? who is not and has retired."

show that Meldrew set out to deceive us and then gradually shifted his position - thankfully.

Having been responsible myself for a name-change recently, and having at the time enjoyed the confusion thus caused, I'm now leaning more and more to Pat's view, that name-changing should be stopped, or at least should be acknowledged.

If there is any such thing as a virtual community then a constantly shifting set of identities will surely weaken it.

FocalPoint, formerly ChrisPeugeot
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 20:00
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 20:05 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>>FocalPoint, formerly ChrisPeugeot

That's the way to do it. Old habits die hard, though. I'm still calling VXfan DD.
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 21:35 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - VxFan
>> Quite a nice chap, actually.

I can't recall saying he wasn't. IIRC, we had no trouble from him either here or in the BR.
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New Sun 5 Jun 11 13:14 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> Someone mentioned yesterday something about a Gentlemen’s Club, and it seems to me that this is what we’ve turned into with an inner clique that doesn’t welcome outsiders, doesn’t like different opinions and has no respect for anyone other than a select few.

Yes, it is clubby, a bit like a local pub.

But despite her nine well-deserved gongs, I think Pat's tender heart makes her overstate the case when she suggests that the 'inner clique' - is there one? - doesn't welcome outsiders, doesn't like different opinions and has no respect for anyone other than a select few.

Dutchie, a recent arrival, was received perfectly politely and kindly by me among others. I hope he hasn't given up on us by the way. And while people here may react strongly to some opinions, surely this isn't because they are 'different' but because they seem contentious in some way? The exchange of opinions and the arguments that result are the staff of life in a place like this. And as for having no respect for anyone other than a select few... codswallop really. Disagreeing with someone, not being interested in their posts or even teasing them a bit, don't amount to disrespect do they? If we've all got to pretend everything is equally interesting and everyone equally amusing and informative it's all going to become a bit modern and dispiriting, I can't help feeling.

The point about clubs is that they are for like-minded people. Not identical or uniform, just like-minded. It's obvious that people who can't handle the mode of discourse or just think it's a bore won't stick around. A club for everyone and his brother and his wife and his dog and his in-laws and the neighbours isn't really a club. It's just a random cross-section of the population and won't have a character.

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      1  
New Tue 7 Jun 11 06:45 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Pat
Dutchie is away on holiday to Tunisia I think AC, and I don't think we'll easily offend him:)

Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 7 Jun 11 at 06:45
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:25 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Roger.
Lots of navel gazing here!
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:26 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
I am too far inland.
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      1  
New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:29 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Pat
Am I missing something, I can't see my navel?

Pat
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 08:34 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Clk Sec
>>I am too far inland.

That was quite funny. Tar very much.
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 20:00 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
It would be grand to have enough time to fulfill one account let alone multiple jobby's. Alas no alias here....................or was it there?
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New Tue 7 Jun 11 20:54 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> people who can't handle the mode of discourse or just think it's a bore won't stick around.

I have been musing on this. I don't mean for example that many people aren't 'up to' the discourse. Nearly everyone is, here anyway, if they want to be.

What I meant was something more like this. Sorry but it's a minicab story.

I wasn't a typical minicab driver, to the extent that there is or was one, and it showed. My colleagues were inclined to scoff but soon realised that I could do it as well as them or better. Most were friendly - I was allowed to be one of them, subject to the esprit de corps that used to exist - and they called me Biggles.

One day two drivers were visiting from another firm. While they were talking to their friends there I made some orotund remark of a sort not often heard in minicab offices, and the two visitors stared at me in open-mouthed disapproval. But one of my young south London colleagues grinned at them and said with unmistakable, huge pride: 'Inneee a caaahn'?'

Anyone not then a South London minicab driver might have thought this an unpleasant remark, but I took it for the compliment it was. You have to know the language.

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      2  
New Tue 7 Jun 11 22:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Dog
Priceless Lud + + + + +
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 10:33 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - bathtub tom
>>I made some orotund remark

I had to look that up, it's described as magniloquent??????
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 10:57 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Dog
I thought orotund was what grandad tubby was, but then I orften get my R's about face :)
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 11:10 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - FocalPoint
Do you in fact know your R's from your elbow?
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 11:18 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - neiltoo
Trickey..... dogs have four elbows.

8o)
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 11:23 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - neiltoo
This message has been hidden as many of our users have rated it as offensive.
You may view it by clicking here
A dated political joke - feel free to substitute politicians....

BLAIR AND PRESCOTT

Tony Blair called John Prescott into his office one day and said, 'John I have a great idea! We are going to go all out to win back Middle England'.

'Great idea Tony how will we go about it?' said Prescott.

'Well' said Blair, 'we'll get ourselves one of those long Barbour coats, some proper wellies, a stick and a flat cap, oh and a Labrador . Then we'll really look the part. We'll go to a nice old country pub, in Much Something or other or one of those villages and we'll show we really enjoy the Countryside.'

'Right Oh' said Prescott.

So a few days later, all kitted out and with the requisite Labrador at heel, they set off from London in a westerly direction. Eventually they arrived at just the place they were looking for (Much Piddling-in-the-Brook) and found a lovely country pub (The Surly Yokel) and, with the dog, went in and up to the bar.

'Good evening Landlord, may we have two pints of your best ale, from the Wood?' said Blair.

'Good evening Prime Minister' said the landlord,' two pints of best it is, coming up'.

Blair and Prescott stood leaning on the bar drinking their beer and chatting, nodding now and again to those who came into the bar for a drink. The dog lay quietly at their feet. All of a sudden, the door from the adjacent bar opened and in came a grizzled old shepherd, complete with crook. He walked up to the Labrador, lifted its tail and looked underneath, shrugged his shoulders and walked back to the other bar. A few moments later, in came another old shepherd with his crook. He walked up to the dog, lifted its tail, looked underneath, scratched his head and went back to the other bar.
Over the course of the next hour or so several other locals came in, lifted the dog's tail and went away looking puzzled.

Eventually Blair and Prescott could stand it no longer and called the Barman over.

'Tell me,' said Blair, ' why did all those old shepherds come in and look under the dog's tail like that? Is it an old custom?'

'Good Lord no,' said the barman. 'It's just that someone went and told them that there was a Labrador in this bar with two a***holes!?'
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      18  
New Wed 8 Jun 11 18:58 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
Who in heavens name would mark that down?
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 19:10 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> Who in heavens name would mark that down?

Someone who thought it was a tired old tabloid right-wing joke no good in the first place and two to four years out of date perhaps.

I hasten to add that it certainly wasn't me. I don't bother to read posts like that through as a rule.

I only award positive gongs. And only those when I'm in the mood.
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      1  
New Wed 8 Jun 11 19:43 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Stuu
>>Someone who thought it was a tired old tabloid right-wing joke no good in the first place and two to four years out of date perhaps.<<

The joke works with many names in it. You could also modify the situation to make it a left-wing joke ( make it a working mens club and they wear overalls or something and give them a Pitbull on a chain ).

The joke isnt tired at all, just names used, its structure is sound.

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New Wed 8 Jun 11 19:50 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
It's only going to work on someone who's never heard it Stu. And nearly everyone has.

And I take little scowling red faces as an accolade. I like the really intense, struggling-with-constipation ones best.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 8 Jun 11 at 19:53
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 20:29 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> I take little scowling red faces as an accolade. I like the really intense, struggling-with-constipation ones best.

I see that neiltoo has now got one of those, lucky chap. More than compensation for my disobliging comments on his joke.
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 20:17 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Manatee
>> Who in heavens name would mark that down?
>>

Have you not sussed John Prescott's alias yet?
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 20:22 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Its getting more red faces! It will get the really puce one soon.
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 20:30 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...Its getting more red faces! It will get the really puce one soon...

If it gets enough, doesn't the software automatically zap it?

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New Wed 8 Jun 11 20:42 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Dave_
>> If it gets enough, doesn't the software automatically zap it?

From the House Rules:
"If enough members flag a post as offensive it will first be partially hidden (users can click to see the post, but it will not be displayed automatically)"
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:12 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Bromptonaut
It's looking more constipated by the second.
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:13 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - BiggerBadderDave
"It will get the really puce one soon."

I've just made it go puce. I wanted to see what would happen.
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:16 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Manatee
It's still there. Do all the green thumbs keep it afloat do you think?
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:17 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Dont know, is there a thumb/face algorithm?
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:20 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Hey I have managed to give it a thumb and a face.

All you need to do is clear your cookie for the site, and you can give it multiple ticks.
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:45 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - BiggerBadderDave
Just had two Oreo Cookies for supper.
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 21:48 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Can you suck your tea up through the middle of the oreo?
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 22:04 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - rtj70
>> Dont know, is there a thumb/face algorithm?

Yes apparently. Enough negative votes and it will be hidden.

What will happen to the poster that's been reported so many times - eventually that is? Maybe they won't be able to post for a bit - I seem to recall that may have been a plan at one stage.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Jun 11 at 22:06
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 10:01 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - neiltoo
Golly!!

Apologies to all who need one.

And thanks to the others.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 10:06 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...Golly!!...

Shouldn't worry, it was nothing personal.

Your post became a forum experiment for members.

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New Thu 9 Jun 11 10:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - VxFan
>> Your post became a forum experiment for members.

I thought we did all that when the rating system was first introduced.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 10:33 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...I thought we did all that when the rating system was first introduced...

Might have done.

I didn't take part in this one.

My scowly face and green thumb awards are something I take too seriously to use in a flippant manner.

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New Thu 9 Jun 11 14:44 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Old Navy
>> My scowly face and green thumb awards are something I take too seriously to use
>> in a flippant manner.
>>
>>
Cobblers iffy, if it is that serous a problem or offence, email the magic wand team to sort it.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 14:47 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Focusless
>> Cobblers iffy, if it is that serous a problem or offence, email the magic wand
>> team to sort it.

...or use the 'Report message' link.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 16:45 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...Cobblers iffy...

Calm down, my remark about not being flippant was a flippant remark.

Although I rarely use the report button, I prefer other members to see what the offending poster is really like.



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New Thu 9 Jun 11 10:33 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
>> >> Your post became a forum experiment for members.
>>
>> I thought we did all that when the rating system was first introduced.

Given the average age of most members, Its not surprising they forgot. It was also a slow news day.
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      1  
New Thu 9 Jun 11 14:34 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> Golly!!


To put it mildly neiltoo. Never have I seen the yellow scowling face. I am green with envy.


:o}
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 16:52 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero

>> To put it mildly neiltoo. Never have I seen the yellow scowling face. I am
>> green with envy.
>>
>>
>> :o}

Read it and weep AC, I got one once.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 16:58 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...I got one once...

You've had several real scowling faces from me.

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New Thu 9 Jun 11 17:00 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
That doesn't count, I see it as my mission in life to upset you.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 9 Jun 11 at 17:01
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 17:05 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Iffy
...I see it as my mission in life to upset you...

If only it was just you.

Like to think I'm able to return the favour sometimes.

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New Thu 9 Jun 11 19:31 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
>> That doesn't count, I see it as my mission in life to upset you.
>>
In the Blue corner.............................
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New Wed 8 Jun 11 11:24 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
yeah they have 4 wrists too.
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      2  
New Thu 9 Jun 11 14:54 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - neiltoo
On a serious note, the note on my joke(?) says several members have complained.
I don't want to know who they are, but how many complaints does it take to trigger the action?


I collect good jokes (in my opinion anyway) and release them into the wild when they follow context.
Some are very old, this one a couple of years, and I did say you could substitute the politicians of your choice. I had considered updating it to Cameron and Clegg, but decided to leave it. May that have reduced the number of complaints? were they complaints about the characters, the politics, the age of the joke, or the quality? --- It made me laugh when I first heard it.

Anyway, I'm going for a lie down now.
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      1  
New Thu 9 Jun 11 15:17 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
>> On a serious note, the note on my joke(?) says several members have complained.
>> I don't want to know who they are, but how many complaints does it take
>> to trigger the action?

We didn't know, so that's why we experimented on you. Don't take it personally, you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.


>>
>> I collect good jokes (in my opinion anyway) and release them into the wild when
>> they follow context.

More like released into the wild when they have matured!


>> May that have reduced the number of complaints? were
>> they complaints about the characters, the politics, the age of the joke, or the quality?

No-one complained - well one person did, and that prompted all the bru ha ha, and we all got silly!
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 18:40 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
>> No-one complained - well one person did, and that prompted all the bru ha ha, and we all got silly!

If you mean me Zero, and I don't see who else you could mean, my post wasn't really a complaint. Martin Devon seemed to think there could be no reason to give neiltoo's joke a scowling face, and I was just suggesting a few of the reasons someone might have had. I would not have said those things spontaneously, even though I stand by them. It was only a joke after all and I like to encourage those. And neither right-wing nor tabloid holds any terrors for me although I like to keep them in their place.

Even Iffy's got a better scowling face than mine I notice. But with an unspecified high number of scowls and nineteen legions d'honneur last time I looked, neiltoo can be well satisfied with the day's work. He is the One-Shot Gongmeister and that's a fact.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 18:44 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
>> >> No-one complained - well one person did, and that prompted all the bru ha
>> ha, and we all got silly!
>>
>> If you mean me Zero, and I don't see who else you could mean, my
>> post wasn't really a complaint.

No didnt mean you AC, I meant the person who first awarded his post a slightly scowly face.

Unless of course that was you, and I doubt it was.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 19:01 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Armel Coussine
Of course not. I said so.
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New Thu 9 Jun 11 19:13 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Zero
Now now calm down, you are such a sensitive lad at times AC ;)
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New Fri 10 Jun 11 19:38 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Dutchie
Good read this post,i am still here and back in the UK after a nice holiday.

I feel comfortable on this forum but its like anything in live some people get on with each other and some dont.I noticed this whilst on holiday that people tend to form small groups.

The food was excellent in the hotel that was my opinion anyway but there where some people continious moaning or some treated the locals like lesser humans which I didn't like.

We met a nice couple from Birmingham typical brummies I like their accent.Another from Holland retired consultant clever man and easy going we talked about good memories of Rotterdam where i grew up.People are diverse that is the way we are.We cant see each other on a forum its the written word which sometimes can hurt some people.

The saying the pen is mightyier than the sword.:)
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New Fri 10 Jun 11 20:31 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - MD
Sometimes.
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New Fri 10 Jun 11 20:59 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Old Navy
>> The food was excellent in the hotel that was my opinion anyway but there
>> where some people continious moaning or some treated the locals like lesser humans which I
>> didn't like.
>>

I tend to treat the serial complainers as entertainment, I feel they are often a bit hard of thinking.
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New Fri 10 Jun 11 21:02 
 Are we the authors of our own fate? - Bromptonaut
>> I tend to treat the serial complainers as entertainment.

I have the same attitude. Problem is some members of my own family are serial complainers and I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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