This is one for Humph as he chugs down London, but others might have a view.
Heard an interview on 5Live with a woman who has written a book about 'fast fashion', 'micro trends', and recent massive price deflation in clothing.
It was early morning, so didn't get it all, but I think she was called Lucy and one of her concerns was the effect of cheap, disposable fashion on garment workers.
She was saying part of the problem is UK retailers simply ordering massive quantities FOB - tax paid as I understood it - rather than taking some responsibility for how the clothes were made.
Fast fashion is trends which last a very short time, and micro trends are tiny trends which are even shorter lived.
Lucy - who admitted she was a micro trender in the past - is calling on people to buy fewer, more expensive, but longer lasting clothes.
She's also linked up with the wife of, I think, the actor Colin Firth, who has a sustainable fashion shop.
Most of what was said applies women, but there is some fast fashion - and certainly very cheap - clothes for men.
So should we deliberately buy dearer, more ethically produced, clothes in an attempt to look after garment workers?
Or realistically, in these tough times is it everyman - and woman - for them self?
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Nothing new in this, I fear. I have a friend who used to drive trucks for a well-known UK cheapie fashion chain (which, interestingly enough, I knew when it was just one side-street shop 40-odd years ago) and used to pick up batches of new stuff from manufacturers in the UK. He used to tell me what they were paying - 80p per blouse at the sweat-shop door, for example.
Doesn't bear thinking about.
I never thought my sartorial choice might be called 'sustainable'. I call it my 'classic' style...
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Only the terminally naive cannot see a £2 t-shirt will not be ethically produced. Ditto any cheap jeans for under a tenner. The material and decent labour and transport costs will be more than that if they were!
I already do what she suggests. If it isn't falling to bits I'll still be wearing it. If it is dropping to bits I'll probably still wear it!
Many clothing choices are down to pointless consumerism or tribe habits.
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I'm typing here as SWM who knows far more about this than i do talks.
Too little too late, the clothing industry as are many others in this country almost past saving.
The age group of those of us who care about such things already buy fewer but better quality clothes, which sadly are probably mass produced in the same countries by similarly paid people.
The generations that buy tat are mostly in the 16 to 30 age bracket, after which those who can afford will be moving up to better labels, the above sentence applies.
Those who buy sweat shop tat in many cases that is all they can afford, there are few jobs available for those who want to work, people can only spend what they have, we'd all like to have fine clothes.
Over the years of selling high quailty second hand womens clothes, she used to have a reasonable turnover business, that has changed and we now find that people would rather buy cheap throwaway rubbish than excellent pre used that would last for years.
As for wages and conditions in the countries likely involved, where we consider them slave labour, they are possibly glad to be earning a living in keeping with their costs, whereas in this country we are promoting our own demise.
That sounds political, but there are many issues involved other than the purchase of a few dresses, we spend too much time worrying about people and their working conditions in other countries, and not enough time putting our own mess straight.
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Its not that simple.
There is still a market and buisiness for high quality, british made goods. My wardrobe has a mix of cheap sweatshop tat and high quality classics.
I dont see the point in paying 40-50 quid for jeans, when i can get a pair that costs 10 quid. Jeans are only for slopping around in. I have one good pair of jeans the rest are sainsbury tat.
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>> I'm typing here as SWM who knows far more about this than i do talks.
>>
>> Too little too late, the clothing industry as are many others in this country almost
>> past saving.
>>
>> The age group of those of us who care about such things already buy fewer
>> but better quality clothes, which sadly are probably mass produced in the same countries by
>> similarly paid people.
>>
>> The generations that buy tat are mostly in the 16 to 30 age bracket, after
>> which those who can afford will be moving up to better labels, the above sentence
>> applies.
>>
>> Those who buy sweat shop tat in many cases that is all they can afford,
>> there are few jobs available for those who want to work, people can only spend
>> what they have, we'd all like to have fine clothes.
>>
>> Over the years of selling high quailty second hand womens clothes, she used to have
>> a reasonable turnover business, that has changed and we now find that people would rather
>> buy cheap throwaway rubbish than excellent pre used that would last for years.
>>
>> As for wages and conditions in the countries likely involved, where we consider them slave
>> labour, they are possibly glad to be earning a living in keeping with their costs,
>> whereas in this country we are promoting our own demise.
>>
>> That sounds political, but there are many issues involved other than the purchase of a
>> few dresses, we spend too much time worrying about people and their working conditions in
>> other countries, and not enough time putting our own mess straight.
>>
GB..I so want to mark your post up by 10+, but of course the infernal machine won't allow. Excellent and right on the button.
MD
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Disposability is the enemy of sustainability; but - equally obviously - sustainability is the enemy of big business. The 'growth' that is every politician's and economist's assumption, on which the promise of a better tomorrow is based, relies on us all, as a population, making and buying more stuff, which means we have to be made to either need it or want it.
The emperor Tiberius in the first century CE is reported to have quietly executed a craftsman who demonstrated unbreakable glass. Modern business can't do that, but it finds other ways, like funding wishful thinking on climate change or scaremongering on Obama's healthcare reforms.
It's partly a question of personal economics: durability costs money, and not many can afford to buy well-made clothes and then discard them after a few months. So fashion for the masses has to be cheap, and business has taken that to mean mass-produced in low-wage countries.
My personal choice is easy: 'fashion-forward' (a term Humph might recognize that I've picked up from the ever-reliable Internet) stuff doesn't fit me, so I buy what fits and wear it till it falls apart. This means my personal style hasn't changed much since I started making adult clothing choices in the early 90s. On the other hand, no one really cares what we chaps wear, so long as it's clean and the socks match; it really is Different for Girls.
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...so long as it's clean and the socks match; it really is Different for Girls...
True, although Lucy did mention near-disposable socks and pants for men sold by the supermarkets.
I could literally buy into some of this, but lack the knowledge.
The rag trade is famous for its high margins, so if I bought a £50 pair of jeans, I wouldn't know if they were ethical, or had a true cost of £1, same as the jeans sold for a fiver.
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You can tell the difference, in cut and quality of the denim, between a pair of 50 quid Levis, and a pair of 10 quid Tesci. However, most of the time jeans are for slopping around in, gardening etc, so its not worth lashing out on good jeans, except where they will be "smart jeans"
Hence my mix,
And as for buying expensive socks, yeah I have one or two pairs, but as the dog steals most of them I have no intention of paying for expensive dog chews.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 26 May 11 at 11:36
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I've seen designer label shirts sold for £50 and more which I don't reckon are any different from a £15 Van Heusen.
The cynic in me says the extra £35 goes into the pockets of those in the supply chain, not into buying superior fabric or paying the workers.
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Hump's opinion should be interesting, though biased.;) extravagant lifestyle you know.
Will he tell all, spill the beans, blow the whistle, turn supergrass/informant/collaborator, stoolpigeon?
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...Hump's opinion should be interesting...
I thought it would give him something to do on the way to London, but perhaps hooking up to the train's wireless broadband proved too difficult.
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I don't care about "ethical" or "fair trade" - if it's cheap and not too horrid it's OK by me.
Clothes are to keep one warm and the idea of spending serious money on "fashion" makes me shudder.
FFS, Sam Cam was shown wearing a dress costing over 800 quid, for attending a barbie! That is just plain crackers. (It wasn't even a NICE dress!).
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Good for you, Roger. Working in a sweatshop serves them right for living in a poor country. If they don't like it they should show some initiative and move to a richer one - the UK, perhaps. I'm sure you agree.
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>> Good for you, Roger. Working in a sweatshop serves them right for living in a
>> poor country. If they don't like it they should show some initiative and move to
>> a richer one - the UK, perhaps. I'm sure you agree.
>>
I thought most of them had!
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Well, this probably wouldn't be most females viewpoint, but I absolutely agree with you Roger.
Pat
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What a bunch of sad fashion victims you lot are. If it keeps me warm, cool, or dry as appropriate and is comfortable to wear it is OK for me. I don't need to impress anyone and have only worn a tie twice since retiring, bliss.
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Roger is rights. I am wearing a pair of Aldi Workwear trousers - £7.99 - and my only complaint is I did not buy 3 pairs at the time. Padded knees, nice finish, tough.. what more can anyone want ?
Fashion? They'll be in and out in the next 6 years...and then fall apart..
People who work in sweat shops do so by necessity.. not by choice. The usual alternative is starvation.
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Although I can't stand fashion, not interested in it and will wear my cheap M&S Outlet Jeans till they die, the subject is one close to my heart.
Charity Shop have relied on donations of second hand clothing from people who are changing their wardrobe, having a clearout or whatever. Nowadays though , there is an acceptance in the industry that the quality of garments has came down so much, that many of them will not last long enough to be donated on to a second owner.
Even "quality" items from M&S which historically were good sellers in our shops, have debatable quality. Many of the retailers now have their own clearance shops and certainly both Next and M&S now have a specific range of clothes that is made for these shops, they do not feature in the main shops.
Attended a conference recently that one of the senior managers from John Lewis spoke at. In this respect he said that they predicted that there would be a rebellion against sweat shop clothing in years to come, but it was still some way away. Until then places like Primark, Tesco etc will continue to buy from these sources.
.*******
Humph, we were also told that the largest seller of shoes in GB is now New Look? Is that accurate, presumably on volume? Think the guy was ex- British Shoe Corporation, remember them?
Last edited by: BobbyG on Thu 26 May 11 at 15:40
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Isn't it annoying when the swear filter kicks in and you can't remember what it was about?
Anyway, I had written that the retailer French Connection UK which is better known by its initials is also tipped to have rocky times ahead.
Garments aren't dear enough to fall into the category of "money no object buyers" but the quality is not seen as being better than some of the cheaper High St retailers .
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There is, of course, another side to this to consider.
Even the hardest up families with small children can afford a basic school uniform from the likes of Primark.
The occasion when the low wage earner just has to wear a suit and finds the one he got married in 12 years ago no longer fits. Asda George comes to the rescue.
No-one need be scruffy anymore with the advent of the £3 pair of Tesco jeans and T shirts.
Sometimes, it's not the quality that matters but the affordability, and these places have certainly put tidy clothes within the reach of the hard up.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Thu 26 May 11 at 16:01
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Just got back. These train thingies are really quite convenient aren't they? Just 2 hours from boarding at Euston to being back at D'Bout Castle. Only just read this tho' so apologies for not chipping in earlier. No problems with the internet n the train but managed to fall asleep for most of both journeys. ( Hope I didn't snore or dribble, that's always a worry when on public transport )
Anyway, no black magic to all this really. The market has demanded cheap so that's what it got. Some of the cheap stuff is actually ok if you don't dwell too long on the conditions endured by those who made it. Even Dickens would have raised an eyebrow !
I think all involved in the industry have to accept that this is the way it'll be now. there is still a residual market for quality, not as has has been postulated above particularly among the more mature in fact but paradoxically perhaps mainly supported by the young.
The "older" customer tends to be more bargain savvy and less style driven. The younger consumer can still be seduced into buying into the "lifestyle" or nominal identity of the brands they relate to.
On balance though, I think the next phase is a general acceptance of eclecticism. It's fine now to put a Primark T-Shirt with a pair of "designer" jeans. ( Oh and New Look sell a pair of shoes every 3 seconds ! )
Quality is such a broad term. It can have so many different meanings. For example take a "quality" garment material example of say, Cashmere. Beautiful but won't be as practical as a synthetic fibre. Leather soled shoes hand crafted in Northampton will not stand as much abuse as a pair of cheap wellies so how do you measure the quality? Of course there are other factors to understand but you see what I mean? It's not necessarily about how long things last or how hard wearing they are but more about fitness for purpose, cut, design etc.
However, it's also about psychology. Buying something you can't quite afford gives it an amount of importance and feelings of pride. Relate that thought to cars and you can see what I mean. " I can't really justify it but I want it and I'm going to have it because it'll make me feel good" or worse still, "...because it'll make my friends / enemies / neighbours / peers jealous"
Bottom line though ( if you'll forgive the pun ) is that fashion is mostly about sex. Fashion signals wealth, taste, membership of a group or whatever message is intended by the wearer. If they get the formula right for their sociological group they'll be more attractive to the opposite sex in that group. It's just as basic as that.
I could drone on. I'll spare you that !
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''I could drone on. I'll spare you that ! ''
Not at all dear fellow, you drone on as much as you like, you wouldn't believe how interesting it is to gain an insight into a world most of us have little knowledge of, and delivered with some humour too.
Many thanks.
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>> People who work in sweat shops do so by necessity.. not by choice. The usual
>> alternative is starvation.
>>
Exactly.
Which is why I refuse to feel guilty buying 'sweatshop' produced goods.
If I and many others didn't buy them, then the factory workers wouldn't even earn the pittance they do.
Oh... and I often leave my McDonalds wrappings on the table - keeps the staff employed don't you know! ;-)
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And don't use self serve checkouts or pay at the pump fuel stations!
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>> And don't use self serve checkouts or pay at the pump fuel stations!
>>
I don't use the self serve checkouts....but have been known to use the pay at pump....
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Some of the quality of the decent brands is shockingly bad. M & S shoes with poor stitching. Expensive designer shoes with the same poor stitching observed that are twice the price. Levis isn't what it used to be either. They used to make decent denim. Their jeans and jackets are nowhere near the quality of my older versions of them. May as well buy cheap tat for somethings if the designer alternative is totally lacking in differentiation quality wise.
I'm continually dismayed at the poor quality of a lot of modern goods even when it has a higher price tag than the tat.
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I will happily buy into quality but not brands. There is a programme on Channel 4.com made called made in England. It is a clothing factory in Salford which makes items for people like Top Shop. One of their coats cost £12 to make in Salford, yet retailed for nearly £200 by the time a good brand is stitched on them.
I would not pay £180 for that coat with a fancy brand, but would happily pay £60 for it if it was just sold as a high quality locally made coat.
As for ethically produced stuff it is a tough area. If people where not working for 25p an hour in an Indian sweat shop the alternative is probably a lot worse.
What I get sick of it is cheap quality electrical goods which just end up being thrown in the bin.
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>> I've seen designer label shirts sold for £50 and more which I don't reckon are
>> any different from a £15 Van Heusen.
>>
>> The cynic in me says the extra £35 goes into the pockets of those in
I Buy 90% of my shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt. Current offers include 4 shirts for £100.00. Before anyone mocks have a look at their website and their guarantee. I can assure you all that their guarantee works.
M&S is a no brainer. Now THAT is expensive tat when taking in all of the facts.
MD
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>> I Buy 90% of my shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt. Current offers include 4 shirts for
>> £100.00. Before anyone mocks have a look at their website and their guarantee. I can
>> assure you all that their guarantee works.
That's nice to know Martin, i've had CT on my 'favourites' for some time but wanted to hear from someone who's tried them, i like decent quality country shirts and you have to usually pay around 45 to 50 pounds to get something that feels and looks right.
Next time i shirt shop i'll give them a try, thanks.
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i really like turnbull and asser but getting more expensive but do fit well and when i last bought some they were excellent qaulity
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>> i really like turnbull and asser
Feeling quite faint now, just clicked on their check shirts range and, well, enough said.
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4 for £100.00 is a winner. View their site to see what fits. I sadly have to have a large neck (19") but a shortened arm which is an additional cost. I also have a breast pocket added which increases the cost, but obviously at my choice. The bonus I find is that being of a slightly larger persuasion the tails are plenty long enough to stay where intended.
As with shoes I only ever buy Handmade Northampton stock. Reason. They don't make my feet stink, they are smart and the big bonus is they will last far far longer than the crap that is the norm. Oh and by the way.........................I don't do trainers.
Best regards GB
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...4 for £100.00 is a winner...
Certainly is for proper Dickie Dirts.
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Martin you sound about as much a fashion icon as i am, i can't stand seeing a man with his shirt tails out, you see the eejits going out like that, they think it looks cool, and as for sports footwear unless playing sport, the good Lord help us no.
Unfortunately for our few surviving Northamptonshore quality footwear makers, my present stock of their excellent timeless products may well see me out, they can stikk that foreign plastic tat where the sun doesn't shine.
I only wish you could still buy safety footwear made here, unfortunately i haven't found any for years now, but DeWalt's Challenger Gortex boots i heartly recommend, light, extremely tough, durable and very comfortable.
Good man yourself MD.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 27 May 11 at 21:30
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>> that, they think it looks cool, and as for sports footwear unless playing sport, the
>> good Lord help us no.
Entirely depends on your "sports shoe" I have a pair of supremely comfortable, very smart Nike Lunarfly. Excelent pieces of footwear.
I was in TK Max today and they had a pair of - wait for it - light blue with leopard spots, brushed suede, side laced chisel toes shoes. Real pimp wear.
I instantly thought of BBD.
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>> Nike Lunarfly. Excelent pieces of footwear.
>>
Pimping?
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>> I only wish you could still buy safety footwear made here
www.altberg.co.uk/Web/military_P3Orig.jsp
Altberg have two factories one in Richmond and one in Italy so these might be made here.
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>> www.altberg.co.uk/Web/military_P3Orig.jsp
>>
Noted for replacement time, many thanks TN.
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Interesting website.
"DON’T wear the same pair of shoes for two days running" mmm, I wear my Clark's 5 days a week. Every week. Till the tread on its rubber sole resembles that of a Formula 1 slick tyre!
I hate leather soled shoes. Accident waiting to happen. Give me rubber soles every time!
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...DON’T wear the same pair of shoes for two days running" mmm...
Humph's told us that a few times - something to do with perspiration and giving the shoe a chance to dry properly.
I've taken his advice, but don't tell him, don't want him to get big 'eaded. :)
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Think I'm with you on that . The most comfortable footwear is a pair of decent walking boots with Vibram soles.
Vibram was actually invented because of the number of climbers falling to their deaths in leather soled climbing boots
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>> I hate leather soled shoes. Accident waiting to happen. Give me rubber soles every time!
>>
They're best not walked on Bobby, though with good rubber stick a soles replaced before they wear through the quality made shoe will retain it's integrity almost indefinately.
My best shoes and boots are years old, kept polished they are as good as new.
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I've written two replies to this thread and deleted tham because I knew the Mods would delete them anyway!
Those of you who know me will guess what I want to say though.
The offending words included 'male bonding' 'Fashion poofs' and 'take a look at yourselves' but I fear my lorry driver sense of humour would have been misunderstood:)
Pat
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>> However, most of the
>> time jeans are for slopping around in, gardening etc, so its not worth lashing out
>> on good jeans, except where they will be "smart jeans"
Jeans for gardening? Far too posh, I wear a pair of Adidas tracksuit bottoms, very comfortable and proper chav style.
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I can't disagree with much that has been said. 200 years ago my relatives were moving from agricultural jobs and into the cities to work in dark satanic mills, and coal mines. The industrialisation we 'enjoyed' is now taking place in foreign lands, and they want the work. It's not just fashion. Who do you think makes your iPod (and in a factory with many suspicious deaths), or your garden tools, or your headphones and so on.
I want to buy some furniture, and saw some nice stuff on a well known shop that sells wooden furniture, mainly from oak. But, where does the wood come from? I cannot find out, and fear that it is being stripped from a poor country, possibly illegally, but probably not sustainably. Clearly they sell a lot, and once when in John Lewis I asked about the origin of rubber wood in a table, the assistant referred to my having an 'agenda'. Do people not care about such things? Or is a bargain all that matters.
Oh and price is not a good guide. I often see the same item at a range of prices from £5 to £25 say, just rebadged with fancy sales bumph in the latter case.
Yes capitalism is dependent on consumption, and items wearing out. Is there an alternative? Maybe if transport costs and/or raw materials were high worldwide, then we would be prepared to pay for longevity.
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I admit to hypocrisy in these matters. My job at one time was to seek out and select overseas source factories for goods to be imported into the UK market. The company I worked for had strict ethical guidelines in these matters but nonetheless I did get to see some "factories" which would make any reasonable person's blood run cold.
We chose not to work with the worst of them and insisted upon certain standards being met in terms of working and worker's conditions but you sort of knew that as soon as you got on the plane to come home....
As for the argument that we in the West are doing the workers some kind of favour by providing a market for the goods they produce I'm afraid that just sounds a bit too similar to how child labour, slavery and human exploitation was justified in our own society until it was dealt with.
No-one with a western head could possibly feel at peace with supporting these sources if they saw for themselves the conditions imposed upon the workers. I am not seeking to sensationalise or shock but think of primary school age children as young as 5 suffering 16 hour working days 7 days a week and being physically punished, beaten, starved and abused for "slacking". Trust me. It happens. The "pretty" ones of both sexes of course are often "opted out" for more lucrative duties.
Still want those cheap goods?
Of course you do. Everyone loves a bargain don't they and what we can't see doesnt exist does it?
Like I say, I'm just as guilty. I tend not to buy clothes and shoes which have clearly been sourced so cheaply as to be obviously from such sources as I can make those judgements due to some inside knowledge, but when it comes to goods of other types I'll still choose the apparent bargain without a second thought because I don't relate to that supply chain.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 28 May 11 at 09:04
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Don't the regulatory bodies in the country concerned bear the main responsibility?
The owners of the sweatshop factories should be compelled to treat their workers reasonably.
Costs would increase, but that's also their problem, not ours.
Apart from reducing human suffering in far away lands, another benefit would be to make manufacturing in this country more competitive.
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>> Don't the regulatory bodies in the country concerned bear the main responsibility?
>>
>> The owners of the sweatshop factories should be compelled to treat their workers reasonably.
>>
>> Costs would increase, but that's also their problem, not ours.
>>
>> Apart from reducing human suffering in far away lands, another benefit would be to make
>> manufacturing in this country more competitive.
And increase the cost to the great British Public.
Don't forget the sweat shops only exist for one reason, because the public wont pay for the alternatives.
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...Don't forget the sweat shops only exist for one reason, because the public wont pay for the alternatives...
They exist partly because they are allowed to exist.
The public can only buy what's put in front of them.
My last sweatshop purchase was probably a pair of suede shoes for, I think, £6.
If every pair in the shop was £15, I still wouldn't walk around in bare feet.
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Like many here, my fashion sensewent years ag. I don't need to impress anyone. I got me black tie out for a funeral a couple of weeks ago and I'd actually forgotton how to tie it...SWM had to do it. My clip on had come apart.
My tailor delivers promptly once I've ordered from the catalogue. Bought 2 pairs of slip on shoes at a tenner each last time.....they're comfy and will last a year...maybe more.
I did deviate a little last week by buying 2 pairs of jeans from George...£7 a pair..
I've lost so much weight that I went down 4 inches on waist size.
What about a pair of these for formal occasions ?
www.funnyordie.com/videos/eb7b6a847b/jj-casuals?rel=player
Nice.
Ted
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Humph, I see that Jane Norman is the latest High St Retailer to go belly up.
Who is next in your humble opinion?
I noticed that the recent Scottish Retail results showed the worst May for many a year and there is no signs of it improving - I must admit at the bottom end of the market even our charity shops are noticing downward sales.
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...I see that Jane Norman is the latest High St Retailer to go belly up...
I blame all these damn charity shops.
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The best will be tested never mind the worst. It's much much worse than anyone could have forecast. There will be many casualties to come. I could speculate but frankly everyone is suffering. The High Street will change unrecognisably. Maybe it had to but there will be a lot of economic and social pain.
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Pull up the ladder, Jack: my care is not for thee!
On a limited income price is the factor, for me: mind you, I HATE buying clothes and am happy to be called unfashionable.
Clothes are to keep one warm. Shoes are to stop one's feet freezing, or stepping in dog-doo.
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I'm with Roger on that one. Mrs C despairs, because almost everything I buy is done on the basis of "replace exactly what I have when it's worn out."
I made all the decisions about which type and colour of shoes or trousers or glasses or whatever years ago - now I don't have to make all those tedious decisions again unless they stop making the same things, or something pretty well identical.
I have to admit I'd not heard of Jane Norman either.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 27 Jun 11 at 21:05
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Crankcase, you have summed up my interest in fashion perfectly!
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>> Crankcase, you have summed up my interest in fashion perfectly!
>>
Me too, never bothered with fashion as such, not in the least interested in what some bod tells me i should be wearing or not.
I wear what i want, but don't mind paying well for good quality as and when needed.
My previous overcoat came from the Sally Army shop for £7 about 15 years ago, outrageous prices.
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I suppose playing the tambourine every sunday is a small price to pay.
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If Rohan go t*ts up my wardrobe'll change for the for the first time in 25yrs!!
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If TK max goes west I shall be in despair.
If Primark goes west we will all be in despair, all those muffin tops single mums will all be naked.
< shudder >
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 27 Jun 11 at 21:27
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Fair enough but do consider that retail is now one of our major employment sectors. It's difficulties are not to be celebrated. The people who work in that sector will not now be spending on other goods and services. In turn those markets will suffer. At some point it will impact upon even the most vehemently disinterested.
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Don't think sweatshops are anything new, they've just moved - my Granny told me she started work in a hosiery factory in Leicester about turn of 19th/20th C - I think she said she worked 6 12 hour shifts a week and was paid 7/6d a week about 37p in todays coinage if not value.From what I hear, there are still quite a few places like that still operating in Leicester! - only way they can compete with imports?
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7/6 a week in 1900 was roughly £160 a week in 2009 money, according to the measuring worth calculator.
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Actually, my memory was that she said 2/6 a week but as I was writing I thought that couldn't be true.
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If you were very very poor, then the subsistence level was about 3/ a week for food. So 7/6 seems the likelier figure.
We complain a lot, of course, but nearly everyone in the UK is vastly better off than just a hundred years ago.
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I see Thorntons and, surprisingly, TJ Hughes, look like being the next casualties.
The High Streets are going to be deserted pretty soon with Tumbleweed blowing through.
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Not surprised by TJ Hughes, they never reached critical national coverage or big buying power, and they are right in the middle of internet shopping market place.
To survive going forward you need to be integrated with the net (order and collect for example), fashion (people still tend not to want to buy clothes over the net its a touchy feely impulse buy market) or have a USP. Small value items too, where P&P makes it expensive to buy over the net.
Unless you have a USP it going to be a waste of time selling books or records or computer games, the net is killing the shop in this market. Shopping on the net is not social or impulsive, to survive the high street needs to turn it into a social & leisure activity and capture the impulse buy.
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>> To survive going forward you need to be integrated with the net (order and collect
DON'T say that.
It is, "To survive". NOT, to survive going forward. You can hardly survive going back can you.
Modern speak..........Pah!!
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>> It is, "To survive". NOT, to survive going forward. You can hardly survive going back
>> can you.
>>
>> Modern speak..........Pah!!
1
Pah! when was the last time you went shopping!
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One doesn't shop. One chooses and has it sent to the home.
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>> One doesn't shop. One chooses and has it sent to the home.
Its YOUR fault!
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>>(people still tend not to want to buy clothes over the net its a touchy feely impulse buy market)
A perfectly reasonable assumption but, perhaps sadly, quite wrong. The single most successful retailers in the fashion clothing and footwear market ( by several country miles in fact ) are the erstwhile catalogue based but now mainly internet driven businesses.
A number of reasons are being postulated for this really quite sudden ( huge growth in the past 5 years alone ) occurence.
They include -
1/ Credit terms being offered to "sub-prime" customers who otherwise wouldn't have access to it.
2/ Cash rich but time poor consumers having to work longer hours and therefore not having enough time for conventional shopping.
3/ Town / City centres being seen as "difficult / expensive" to use. Parking etc.
4/ Realisation that greater choice is available online.
All of this has conspired against the success and even survival of the bricks and mortar high st retailers and has caused or at least led to a paradoxical success of the online retailers.
It has its own problems though. The vast buying power of these mega-businesses leads to them squeezing the very life out of their suppliers with predictable results.
In other words it's quite tough chaps.
:-)
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>> In other words it's quite tough chaps.
>>
>> :-)
>>
I don't see it getting any easier for the high street, Amazon are building a colossal distribution warehouse near here.
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My Missus and her mates must be bucking the trend then. Does not shop at the likes of ASOS, but favour next which has bridged on line home delivery and physical shop together.
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Honestly no disrespect to Mrs Z but that does make some sense. The "older" and by that I mean "not young" consumer still likes "proper shops" the real money though is being spent by the employed under 35s who now strongly favour online shopping.
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>> Honestly no disrespect to Mrs Z but that does make some sense. The "older" and
>> by that I mean "not young" consumer still likes "proper shops" the real money though
>> is being spent by the employed under 35s who now strongly favour online shopping.
And I suspect that that market segment is going to disapear. The under 35's with disposable income are going to go south, Still not my feild so I am sure you have the best gen on this. What the online retailers do have in spades, is lack of overheads. Landlords have been used to an era of increasing rents. Its come shuddering to a halt.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 22:26
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As I said up thread my preferred brand for trousers and outdoorwear is Rohan.
Might visit the shop once in two years to touch and feel new items but bags are bags and souk items can be returned if not what I expected.
A Rohan franchise is not on my list of things to invest in for my retirement.
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Fast fashion and micro trends - Mike Hannon
