| Non-motoring > Hussain O'Bama | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Roger. | Replies: 52 |
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New Wed 25 May 11 09:53
Hussain O'Bama - Roger.
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No friend of Britain despite his pre-election fawning over the "special relationship". See:- bit.ly/mJTfZV |
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New Wed 25 May 11 21:33
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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Quote: In January this year, President Obama held a joint press conference at the White House with his French counterpart, literally gushing with praise for Washington’s new-found Gallic friends, declaring: “We don’t have a stronger friend and stronger ally than Nicolas Sarkozy, and the French people.” No-one but the naive would expect him to say anything different. And when he is in Israel, he talks about the special relationship with America's bestest friend ever. And so on. The whole special relationship nonsense is just that, nonsense. Regarding Las Malvinas (sic), yeah that stinks. Maybe we should call for talks about the ownership of Alaska and Hawaii. |
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New Wed 25 May 11 22:00
Hussain O'Bama - Iffy
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...The whole special relationship nonsense is just that, nonsense... I agree Obama is bound to big up who he is speaking to at the time. But American soldiers died to help save our country during the Second World War. That does make the relationship special, although what happened back then will slowly slide into history, as it should. But it remains relevant, particularly while the Queen remains on the throne. |
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New Wed 25 May 11 23:43
Hussain O'Bama - rtj70
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>> But American soldiers died to help save our country during the Second World War. American lives were lost in Europe and elsewhere to defeat the Axis forces. It was not just about saving our country but that was part of it. The world should be grateful of their help. They entered the war too late to stop a lot of other terrible events. |
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New Wed 25 May 11 23:54
Hussain O'Bama - -
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He's a politician, therefore by definition every word uttered should be taken with a pinch of salt. It never ceases to amaze me why anyone takes seriously anything they, politicians, glorified salesmen, say. Still all this rubbish keeps armies of media, journalists and the apparatus of propaganda in lucrative employment, beats the hell out of days work. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 07:37
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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Iffy said: >> But American soldiers died to help save our country during the Second World War. >> >> That does make the relationship special, although what happened back then will slowly slide into >> history, as it should. It took them two years before entering the war, during which time Britain was fighting for survival and could have succumbed to the Nazi war machine. Only when Japan launched an attack on the US fleet did they join in and fight. We sold off huge amounts of assets to fund the war, and a substantial proportion of those assets were bought at bargain prices by Americans. American industry did well out of producing armaments for us, and then for the US forces. Yes many Americans did die, but I don't think the people really cared about Britain. I think they followed self interest. That is how America works, and can you blame them. I am sure we are the same. Except when a nincompoop got us involved in Iraq. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 00:04
Hussain O'Bama - John H
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>> Hussain O'Bama Roger, you may think that the subject line is funny or clever, but the joke is on us Brits. Obama couldn't care less about the special relationship that the Brits desperately want to hang on to. The Britain that you remember no longer exists. He pointedly reminded people about his Mau Mau grandfather and about the colonials now sitting in Parliament: "it’s possible for the sons and daughters of former colonies to sit here as members of this great Parliament, and for the grandson of a Kenyan who served as a cook in the British Army to stand before you as President of the United States”. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 00:30
Hussain O'Bama - Stuu
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Atleast he appears moderately intelligent, which is all one can hope from an American president. I expect the special relationship translates to ' we have done very naughty things to protect our joint national interests' and they want to make sure they get their story straight. Ive never been able to get it out of my mind that theres alot about the American government thats rather shady, despite their whiter than white self-image. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 07:39
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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John H said: >> The Britain that you remember no longer exists. He pointedly reminded people about his Mau >> Mau grandfather and about the colonials now sitting in Parliament: >> >> "it’s possible for the sons and daughters of former colonies to sit here as >> members of this great Parliament, and for the grandson of a Kenyan who served as >> a cook in the British Army to stand before you as President of the United >> States”. I don't think that was a dig at us, just a reminder that he came from humble background and rose to the top, and that others can do likewise. A good message surely. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 08:49
Hussain O'Bama - Cliff Pope
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All politicians use their family origins when it suits them: My family came here as poor jews from Lithuania. My father worked down the mines. I was born over a corner shop in Grantham. I came from a dour calvanist background with an ingrained sense of right and wrong. I was a member of the Bullingdon Club. :) Obama has the advantage of having come from everywhere. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 09:12
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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Frankly, we could do without the "special relationship". The only special thing about it is that we have been used when it suits them. Its time it ended. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 09:48
Hussain O'Bama - Mike Hannon
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| The immediate problem is not with the nature of any 'special relationship', it's with the fact that whenever Obama makes a speech he sounds like a 'speak your weight' machine. I don't remember any recent front-line politician who is so unconvincing, let alone uninspiring. Even when he's 'looking for which ass to kick' - how stupid was that? If ever a man gives the impression he is reading from a script written by a computer, it's he. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 10:10
Hussain O'Bama - R.P.
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| He's full of crap basically but talks a good job. He's a major disappointment to everyone who thought his presidency would spark a major change in the US. Evidence that to quote a former US president that "you can fool most of the people most of the time" his "leadership" in bringing UBL to a timely end will allow him a second term. He's a second if not a third rate cappuccino President with little substance but lots of froth. So far he's been lucky that nothing "big" has kicked off during his tenure and backfired on him. Watch this space. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:18
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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>> He's full of crap basically but talks a good job. He's a major disappointment to >> everyone who thought his presidency would spark a major change in the US. Evidence that >> to quote a former US president that "you can fool most of the people most >> of the time" his "leadership" in bringing UBL to a timely end will allow him >> a second term. He's a second if not a third rate cappuccino President with little >> substance but lots of froth. So far he's been lucky that nothing "big" has kicked >> off during his tenure and backfired on him. Watch this space. I note that AC has just posted similar thoughts to me. I think he is a breath of fresh air after Bush who tended to act in haste and fail to repent at leisure. Obama took his time to review the Afghanistan policy. He was ultimately responsible for capturing OBL in an audacious assault with minimal 'collateral damage'. He has improved the image of America throughout the world, with a more combative approach to Israel, albeit somewhat soft by our standards, and ineffectual, but given the support for Israel in America, he has to tread softly. He started out soft, and when they refused to make any concessions, revealing Israel's claims of wanting peace as false, it made it easier for him to take a harder line. He has done some work on medicare, or whatever it is called. I think the Nobel Prize was a joke, and he should have rejected it, but I think from the point of view of non Americans he is a good president. He does seem to have taken too soft a line on the American deficit though. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 15:11
Hussain O'Bama - -
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[[He was ultimately responsible for ''capturing'' OBL in an audacious assault]] Is there something you know that we don't..-) |
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New Thu 26 May 11 10:16
Hussain O'Bama - Londoner
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>> Frankly, we could do without the "special relationship". The only special thing about it is >> that we have been used when it suits them. >> >> Its time it ended. >> Yes - and we can start with the unbalanced extradition treaty that the last Government passed into law. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 10:27
Hussain O'Bama - -
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>> Yes - and we can start with the unbalanced extradition treaty that the last Government >> passed into law. >> Well remembered London, they passed so many that they blurred like the trees as you gaze from a high speed trains window. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:09
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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I didn't intend to post in this thread because its title is stupidly and gratuitously (although vaguely and meaninglessly) offensive. Even the usually egregious John H thinks so it seems. But he reverts to type by dismissing as insignificant the alliance between this country and the US which is based on historical ties of blood, language, culture, ideology and common military enterprise. Just as, it now seems, quite a lot of others do. It seems, too, that people here are parroting what the columnists in their right-wing rags are claiming: that the US president is weak, faffing, vacillating and hypocritical, rather than being the refreshingly high-minded, statesmanlike and rational figure he appears (especially after the recent run of deadbeats, crooks and halfwits). Birther controversy anyone? Or what about medicare leading to 'socialism'? Tchah! Got a damn good mind to go on holiday like Bell Boy. There are times in a pub when the beer seems a bit off. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:19
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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AC, you'll be telling me next that the US entered WW2 because of friendship with the UK, or even that they made us pay for everything for the next 60 years because it was good for us. Only one thing matters to the USA, Its not GB, For a well travelled and well read man, your are surprisingly blind, naive to national interests played out in the global arena. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 26 May 11 at 13:19
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:33
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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>> surprisingly blind, naive to national interests played out in the global arena. Actually Zeddo I probably understand these things as well as you do. Wouldn't want to exaggerate of course. For a shrewd and intelligent man you are surprisingly confident that these matters can be meaningfully discussed in sweeping epigrammatic generalizations. They can't really. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:49
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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They can. If you break it down into goals its very simple. Sure the game and circumstances change but the goals dont. There are no votes to be garnered from UK residents, never has been. The Uk has merely been involved as a "circumstance" or tool towards the US goals. We were a convenient airbase during the cold war. We were a convenient communications hub and monitoring station. No longer required. Europe is where the US wants tools next. Have you forgotten Suez AC? |
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:41
Hussain O'Bama - Cliff Pope
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>>>> >> For a well travelled and well read man, your are surprisingly blind, naive to national >> interests played out in the global arena. >> Like AC I too have a sentimental view that the New World came to the rescue of the Old during WW2, because of a common fellowship as part of the English speaking peoples, as Churchill put it. But deep down I know that was nonsense. America came in because they finally realised their own interests were threatened, and finally Japan made the decision easy for them. The only noble thing the Americans have ever done was Marshall aid, and that was probably from self-interest too really. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 14:13
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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>> I too have a sentimental view that the New World came to the rescue There's nothing 'sentimental' in understanding that sentiment - feeling on a popular level - plays a part in these strategic decisions, although it shouldn't be, and usually isn't, the most important factor. It can make a decisive difference though. If you doubt this, look at the wider implications of the so-called 'Middle East conflict' (centred on the foundation of Israel, its expansion and security policies and the popular feeling aroused by it in the Muslim world, which governments there ignore at their peril). What seems naive to me is the view that States are governed by cold, rational corporate entities that act in a cold, rational, corporate manner. They should be of course in a perfect world. But they aren't because it isn't one. Countries act like what they are: complex, shifting masses of interconnected individuals and interests shot through with conflicts and contradictions of various kinds. They are perfectly capable of acting foolishly or against their own interests. They are perfectly capable of doing one thing one minute and the opposite the next, and quite often do. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 14:27
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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>] >> What seems naive to me is the view that States are governed by cold, rational >> corporate entities that act in a cold, rational, corporate manner. They should be of course >> in a perfect world. But they aren't because it isn't one. No one said that. Policy of the US is governed by votes, money and power. Those with power and money in the US actually despise the UK. Countries act like what >> they are: complex, shifting masses of interconnected individuals and interests shot through with conflicts and >> contradictions of various kinds. There are no masses that matter shifting or otherwise that have any influence or control. The US is actually pretty stable with respect to its power groups and money interests. If you look at everything its done in the last 100 years its been pretty consistent in its goals. Two world wars, relectantly, forced them off path, but they were pretty quickly back on it. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 14:50
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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>> Policy of the US is governed by votes, money and power. That's true enough. The US like other countries is effectively governed in quite large part by forces that owe no allegiance to any state: as it were offshore money, to put it crudely. Your other largely unsupported assertions are dubious at best or just wrong, with the exception of the comment on the consistency with which national interests (not just of the US) are pursued over long periods of time, independently of the ideological slant of successive governments where democracies are concerned. However as you must know, long term or sudden crisis-driven change, economic, demographic, ecological and so on, to the overall world picture force everyone to stay on their toes. It's a desperate, scary business and mistakes are made all the time by everyone. Naturally it is the weakest who tend to pay the heaviest price for any booboos and the strongest who shrug them off most easily. Keeps it interesting for armchair loudmouths though. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 14:57
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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Armchair loudmouth? I see. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 15:02
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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It was a plural Zeddo. I didn't just mean you. I am here too you know. I wasn't looking down on everyone else while speaking quietly from the top of a stepladdder, but sprawling and bawling along with the rest of you. What a sensitive chap you are sometimes. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 13:10
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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>> Yes - and we can start with the unbalanced extradition treaty that the last Government >> passed into law. Typical Blair. He gave concessions to an Indian steel magnate, Lakshmi Mittel, who then backstabbed him by dealing with the Americans. He gave in much of our European rebate, then flew to Poland to bask in praise from Poles. So a one way treaty is typical of Blair. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 20:04
Hussain O'Bama - Roger.
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>> The Britain that you remember no longer exists. More's the pity. |
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New Thu 26 May 11 20:31
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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| was it ever that good? |
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New Thu 26 May 11 22:15
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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>> >> >> The Britain that you remember no longer exists. >> >> >> More's the pity. Britain now is far better than the country of my youth. Less bigoted, less racist, less snobby, less sexist, better educated. |
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New Fri 27 May 11 16:32
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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>> Britain now is far better than the country of my youth. Less bigoted, less racist, less snobby, less sexist, better educated. I think I would agree with that Leif, but in sort of general terms and with many qualifications. The main difference from my own youth is the staggering increase in personal material wealth though, which applies across the board even to the poor. The phenomenon used to be called by sociologists the 'updating of poverty'. You used to feel poor if you could only afford an old bike. Now you feel poor if you can only afford an old jalopy. Because there are still some poor deprived people, even a few who are undernourished although goodness knows how they manage to be, and because there are many others who feel poor because life is a struggle and they see others who are richer, there's a sort of hallucinatory quality to these changes over time. People who have seen real poverty know in their bones there hasn't been any in this country since 1945. But there has been, and there still is. It's hallucinatory. Another modern factor which Zero points out is the increase in the numbers of super-rich and their inevitable, but unhealthy, grip on power in the US and other democracies, or anyway on politicians' goolies where things are pretty crowded. Time for a velvet, or perhaps sandpaper, revolution in the West perhaps. I'm up for it. But not at the cost of some stupid spat that makes everyone poorer. Bit of a poser that one because to quote Oilrag 'They don't like it up them (cough)'. |
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New Fri 27 May 11 16:42
Hussain O'Bama - R.P.
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I would disagree (but only very slightly) - No undernourishment these days, more like mal-nourishment. My parents weren't that rich, they knew where to make the cuts though and that's the difference...! |
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New Fri 27 May 11 16:54
Hussain O'Bama - nyx2k
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| looks like pu has hit the nail on the head. if your income plunges you need to know where to make the cuts. |
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New Fri 27 May 11 16:55
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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>> My parents weren't that rich, they knew where to make the cuts though and that's >> the difference...! They had less available choices to cut tho... |
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New Fri 27 May 11 17:04
Hussain O'Bama - R.P.
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| You're right Zero - but the essentials remain the same. |
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New Fri 27 May 11 16:54
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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>> Another modern factor which Zero points out is the increase in the numbers of super-rich >> and their inevitable, but unhealthy, grip on power in the US and other democracies, or >> anyway on politicians' goolies where things are pretty crowded. Its not a modern factor, it has ever been thus. Sometimes the names, faces or Logos change, but they usually represent the same interests. |
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New Fri 27 May 11 17:58
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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>> Its not a modern factor, it has ever been thus. There have always been some. Emperors, commodity exploiters, the odd big industrialist. There are more and more now, new categories: Arabs, Chinese, Russians, bankers... And offshore is the new Mayfair or the new Monaco. Those are both significant changes. |
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New Fri 27 May 11 18:41
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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Perhaps it is true too that the super-rich, defined as those with hundreds of millions in genuine, liquid form, are not as much richer than the general run of the middle classes as their forebears used to be - a side effect of inflation, that other hallucinatory element in living history. But frankly it doesn't make much difference given the gross gap between comfortable in any western country - say a third to a half of the population in one way or another - and actually rich. What matters, what makes a real and potential difference, is the increasing number of these fat cats and their wildly skittering demographic profile, along with the move offshore for everything from banking to industrial production: the 'globalized' economy so called, still precariously ramrodded by the US but... Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 27 May 11 at 18:41
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New Fri 27 May 11 22:16
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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>> Perhaps it is true too that the super-rich, defined as those with hundreds of millions >> in genuine, liquid form, are not as much richer than the general run of the >> middle classes as their forebears used to be - a side effect of inflation, that >> other hallucinatory element in living history. Certainly not when you think back to 1900 and earlier. But a comfortable middle class has developed, and that includes tradesmen such as plumbers who do very well thank you. >> But frankly it doesn't make much difference given the gross gap between comfortable in any >> western country - say a third to a half of the population in one way >> or another - and actually rich. What matters, what makes a real and potential difference, >> is the increasing number of these fat cats and their wildly skittering demographic profile, along >> with the move offshore for everything from banking to industrial production: the 'globalized' economy so >> called, still precariously ramrodded by the US but... Do you really think that in the UK they have more power than 40 years ago? Perhaps today we are more aware of them because we are less deferential. In the past we would tend to doff out caps to someone who sounded posh. Or more seriously, we would be less questioning if someone sounded authoritative and clever. Today we tend to judge them more directly. Certainly in America there is a class of people who have great wealth from technology, less so here, and usually centred round Oxford and Cambridge science parks and Silicon Ditch (Thames Valley). I guess there was an expansion in rich people in banking associated with the liberalisation of banks by Thatcher in the 80's. And they do fit your description of fat cats. But there are not that many of those. (Many of my contemporaries at university went into the merchant banks and are now very wealthy. Sigh.) |
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New Fri 27 May 11 20:05
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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>> There have always been some. Emperors, commodity exploiters, the odd big industrialist. The "odd" big industrialist? Who do you think has been exploitiong the world minerals, oils, people, food and global wealth, for near on three hundred years? bankers, industrialists, traders have decided foriegn policy for centuries, Shell? BP, the East india Company? for many of the old world. >> There are more and more now, new categories: Arabs, Chinese, Russians, bankers... And offshore is the new Mayfair or the new Monaco. Those are both significant changes. Its just more "me" trying to shoulder the old "me" out. Except global resources have become a whole lot scarcer for a whole lot more "me's" Offshore? Hong kong, the Bahamas, Panama, Macau has been our "offshore" for hundreds of years as well. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 27 May 11 at 20:08
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New Sat 28 May 11 08:22
Hussain O'Bama - Roger.
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| The gorgeous Sarah Palin for President - please! |
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New Sat 28 May 11 10:02
Hussain O'Bama - Zero
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>> The gorgeous Sarah Palin for President - please! You are mad, I think we should ship you back to Spain before you can cause any more harm Last edited by: Zero on Sat 28 May 11 at 10:02
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New Sat 28 May 11 12:53
Hussain O'Bama - Roger.
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I'd rather look at her than the present muppet and his minger of a wife! Apart from anything else, Sarah may not be intellectual, but many of her instincts are sound (religious nuttery aside). Ronald Reagan was similarly derided as a lightweight, but he did a grand job. A proper right wing government in the States might just bolster up blue Labour's "call me Dave" Cameron to stiffen his wobbly spine. Last edited by: Roger on Sat 28 May 11 at 12:54
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New Sat 28 May 11 14:04
Hussain O'Bama - Cliff Pope
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I read an article somewhere, can't recall where, comparing today's super-rich with the American super-barons of the 19th century. It made the point that today's rich are only really rich on paper, and that because of globalisation and the fragile interdependancy of the world economy, someone owning billions does not actually have the real liquid purchasing power one might think. This was contrasted with Rockefeller, it might have been, who could actually literally buy an entire small country. Not just own big chunks of its industries or resources, or be able to bribe its politicians, but own the entire real estate as his private property. No one since Leopold II sold the Belgian Congo has anyone been that rich. Vyner Brooke selling Sarawak was small beer in comparison. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 14:15
Hussain O'Bama - Iffy
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...A proper right wing government in the States might just bolster up blue Labour's "call me Dave" Cameron to stiffen his wobbly spine... Agreed, and it would be popular with the public - the silent majority. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 15:13
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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It has been suggested that, the US being in practice the centre of a 'world democratic empire', US presidential elections should extend the vote to Europe as well as Canada, and perhaps to some other democratic countries. Seemed quite a good idea in a way for a while there. But now it doesn't, if Roger and others here are anything to go by. Obama's a muppet and Cameron's blue Labour, eh? Yes Roger, and the rest of you, by all means vote for Sarah Palin, the halfwit's halfwit. A bit clever for some of you perhaps, but leaders are supposed to be clever aren't they? |
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New Sat 28 May 11 15:36
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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| Another thing about the ghastly Palin: despite symmetrical features and a jerkily jovial manner, she is about as far from attractive as it's possible to be. Frankly I'd rather sleep with an alligator. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 15:35
Hussain O'Bama - CGNorwich
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| We currently have in President Oblama one of the most intelligent, honest, cultured and outward looking presidents that the US has had for a very long while. I can't conceive that anybody could think a Western world led by Sarah Palin would be an improvement. The lunatics would surely then taken over the asylum. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 15:58
Hussain O'Bama - Roger.
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>> We currently have in President Oblama one of the most intelligent, honest, cultured and outward >> looking presidents that the US has had for a very long while. I can't conceive >> that anybody could think a Western world led by Sarah Palin would be an improvement. >> The lunatics would surely then taken over the asylum. >> Surely you ARE joking? Obama = the Manchurian Candidate. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 16:04
Hussain O'Bama - Armel Coussine
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Obama = the Manchurian Candidate. Nah mate. That was Frank Sinatra or that British bloke. Or Oddjob or summin. Get your history right. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 21:42
Hussain O'Bama - Leif
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>> Surely you ARE joking? >> Obama = the Manchurian Candidate. Obama is an intelligent cautious man, not perfect, but better than the alternatives. He is quite good at strategy, rather than tactics i.e. long term thinking and planning, and has a habit of tricking his opponents into thinking they have won when the contest is only just starting. Palin is quite simply a moron. She is ignorant, to a degree that is shocking, and she is thick as two short planks. And she is incredibly dangerous due to her ignorance. I reckon were she to get in, she'd be a puppet for various powerful interest groups, without realising it. But the idea that America could elect such as total cretin and halfwit is too frightening to contemplate. It would be America trying to out nut job Iran and President I'm A Dinner Jacket. I will add that she is cute looking, but that is not enough to quality her for the top job. |
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New Sat 28 May 11 21:46
Hussain O'Bama - R.P.
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But the idea that America could elect such as total cretin and halfwit is too frightening to contemplate They've managed before... |
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