No this doesn't belong in motoring - I wish it did.
Making tea this morning my eye was drawn to a movement on the veg bed. A very large brown rat going back and forth between SWMBO's brocoli and somewhere behind the wheelbarrow & compost bin. No evidence of permanent presence but there's a small area of smoothed soil under the fence between us and next door. There are a few clearly visible droppings as well. Some similar flattening around the plants where I saw the blighter. I have a feeling it's running back and possibly hiding up in next door's summer garden furniture/BBQ etc which are under tarpaulins on their side of the fence.
I'll pop round and have aword when Mr next door is home but in meantime can anyone help with how to identify rat runs and the best way to deal with them before the establish a commune!!
As ever, thanks in anticipation.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 13:29
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Put a rat trap, with something nice like undercooked bacon rind tied on as bait, under cover near the fence, at right angles to it.
However, if there's other food about, it might not take the bait easily. Are you feeding birds in an untidy manner, letting seeds/food fall to the ground? Is your neighbour? Just stopping doing such things might make the rat go away.
You could always just ignore it. It'll go away if there's nothing for it to eat.
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>>Put a rat trap
But don't let any nearby cat owners know!
Seriously, you may want to consider what other animals could take the bait, or the dead rat if you use poison.
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>> >>Put a rat trap
>> But don't let any nearby cat owners know!
Attach the trap to a post or something with a length of wire, then it won't be dragged away.
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1. Rat traps don't need baiting. They just need to be put in the right place. It sounds as though you have found the right place. The edges of walls tend to be very good, animals like keeping to the edges.
2. That said, the best bait is chocolate. Melt it and then it will stick to the trap and the animal will have to gnaw it so is more likely to spring the trap than if it is a loose bit of bacon etc.
3. You want a Fen trap. www.killgerm.com/product-group.php?group=509 Mind your fingers when you set it. And mind other species. It should be set up in a pipe/run.
4. Good luck.
5. Plan B, get a cat. I have two (strays that turned up and made the place home), and this is the first time I have lived in London and not been aware of rodents.
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Depending on where you live a Terrier owner might want some sport.
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>> Depending on where you live a Terrier owner might want some sport.
>>
I'm not quite sure why where you live makes a difference!
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Seriously a cat is the answer. In our rural area rats will always be a potential problem and in our first few years at this place we had the council guy out a few times but they kept coming back. Then about 5yrs ago next door folks got two cats and we gained one soon after.... result not seen a rat (alive) in years.
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3) You want a Fen trap.
You don't need a "Fenn" trap, an ordinary rat trap is sufficient. A Fenn MK IV would be the one if you did buy one, I use them when there's a squirrel problem. Rather OTT for a rat, though. Dangerous possibilities.
I'd be inclined to leave it, it probably won't hang around (unless there's a lot of birdseed or other food available, that's the usual attraction).
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 16:39
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How can a squirrel possibly be a problem?
Pat
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>> How can a squirrel possibly be a problem?
>>
>> Pat
>>
I wasn't aware I'd given a link to squirrels.
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FT mentioned squirrels above.
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And I posted directly under his post too!
Pat
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>> And I posted directly under his post too!
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>> Pat
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Don't start on that subject again!
;-)
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>> And I posted directly under his post too!
You didn't, you replied to Snaily's psot containing 3 URLs.
Sqs. can be a big problem if for instance they get into your attic, or shed. Very, very destructive. They are also an environmental menace.
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So are people FT in my experience, but it doesn't mean we have the right to exterminate them.
We stopped the car today way out in the Fen and watched a pair of mad march hairs having a boxing match, it was a moment to treasure and one I feel privileged to see.
Last year hare coursers were arrested in that field, so there is justice.
Squirrels are delightful to watch and for that pleasure alone I can forgive them the damage if I allow my house of shed to be insecure.
Try as I may the posts I make never seem to come below the post I click reply on desite it being below that post when I write it, and before you all rush to explain the reason, I know it's me!
I use the flat view, and think that may be the problem.:)
And I'm too old to change now too.
Pat
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sat 27 Mar 10 at 18:08
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...Try as I may the posts...
Pat,
Mine don't go where I want them to some of the time, either.
Not worth worrying about.
Boxing hares is a sight I'd love to see.
I've seen a hare, er, haring across a field a couple of times and that was impressive.
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Patty,
SWMBO had a little tip about keeping the old Squillos out of your tubs and pinching your bulbs. A liberal sprinkling of grated Wrights Coal Tar soap !
It worked and we've got some really healthy Tulips sprouting through now.
Ted
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That's a handy tip Ted, I'll remember that.
Ginger, according to his previous owner, catches squirrels!
Our bird feeders are all in a very mature Laburbum Tree at the bottom of the garden so they are well away from the house and the squirrel manages to get them on the floor and then sits on top of the arbour looking smug:)
Pat
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>> FT mentioned squirrels above.
>>
In that case, I'll provide a link to some information. tinyurl.com/y97cu4s
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 18:24
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I had a rat or two at the bird feeders at my caravan in leafy North Yorkshire.
They are very clever creatures, excellent swimmers, climbers and tidy eaters, making less mess than some of the birds.
Not allowing them access to food is the best way to discourage them, but as others have said, they also like piles of junk, garden furniture and other stuff some untidy people like to leave lying around.
A cautionary tale to finish with.
A woman died after trying to release a rat which had become entangled in her bird feeder.
It thanked her for her kindness by biting her hand, and a not uncommon allergic reaction did the rest.
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Saw one at home years ago (well the garden) there were pigs ( three) being kept in an outbuilding rented by an inherited tenant - since they left not seen any evidence of them....this one was as big as a cat - horrible thing.
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It thanked her for her kindness by biting her hand
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>>>>>>>>>>> wasnt it the snake by al wilson
thought rattles would have got that one being a northern type of soul
maybe hes on N0.5 scrumpy pint?
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Our local council pest control officer uses Neosorexa Bait Blocks. tinyurl.com/ycj3g53
Put them under something like a ridge tile. Put them on nails through a piece of wood to prevent them being carried away and stored.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 27 Mar 10 at 07:15
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Thanks to all for your help so far. Not seen the blighter again but deifinitely some signs of a run. Will certainly be more careful about birdfeedings being on the table (though the starlings throw everything about.
Next door have two cats but I suspect neithe could be arxed with a rat, secure in the knowledge that a large tin of Kitty Kat will turn up soon!
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...secure in the knowledge that a large tin of Kitty Kat will turn up soon!...
Anyone who thinks a domestic cat would deter a rat is dreaming.
A feral cat might, but as PU said, what you really need is a terrier - they will kill rats for fun.
I've seen one in action, it picks the rat up by the neck in its mouth and shakes it vigorously, which I imagine the dog knows will break the rat's neck.
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>> mouth and shakes it vigorously which I imagine the dog knows will break the rat's
>> neck.
It does, its not called the "death shake" for nothing. Watch a hunting dog do it. Its a variation of the way you crack a whip.
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>> Will certainly be more careful about birdfeedings being on the
>> table (though the starlings throw everything about.
>>
That won't make any difference because rats are good climbers. Also rats are lazy animals and don't travel more than 50 to 100 metres from their nest to find food. Consequently they build a nest close to where they find a source of food, and then multiply like billyoh. We stopped feeding birds after I saw a rat running up the bird table post.
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I'm sure Ratty can climb the post and I'd considered that. But how does it belay the table's overhang to get at the nosh?
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I wrote a post and dumped it by mistake. Ifithelps covers the same ground: rats are too big and fierce for idle house moggies. That's what Jack Russells are for.
Our nice little cat catches voles, field mice and shrews and brings them in the house to play with them and leave them on display. But it won't tackle rabbits, squirrels or rats. A .22 or good air rifle will deal with them though if you can get a permit. .
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...But how does it belay the table's overhang to get at the nosh...
The rat can easily support it's own weight upside down if it can grip, so the overhang of a wooden birdtable is no bother.
I now have a small cylinder feeder with a catching plate underneath.
It is hung, with a good overhang, from a post made of thin metal rod - I've seen thicker knitting needles.
I reckon the rat will struggle to climb the rod, as it is too narrow and too hard to grip, but I wouldn't bet on it.
The rat could easily climb the previous pole which was a metal one from a television aerial.
I've not seen rats since this latest installation, so it looks like it's working so far.
If there's any more problems, my next move will be to grease the pole.
I've seen some greasy pole climbers at work, but none in the animal kingdom. :)
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Dogs will "rat" that's what terriers were bred for - I wouldn't want my dog to mess with them though - My old cocker used to risk asses any potential fight - I swear to this day that she tip toed past a fox on an early morning walk a few years ago
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>>Anyone who thinks a domestic cat would deter a rat is dreaming.
Err no... just reporting the *fact* that our cat and the two next door have eradicated the rat problem in our multi-outbuilding rural properties.
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Depends on the cat, but any cross bred moggy with half an eye on its wild heritage will have a go at a rat.
Nothing wrong with good natural hare coursing BTW Pat. man has been using animals to hunt animals since the day he joined forces with the wolf.
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Don't mention hunting:(
Mr pda and I have agreed to never discuss it again!
Nature should be left alone without any involvement from mankind.
Pat
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>> Nature should be left alone without any involvement from mankind.
Exactly - Dogs hunt and kill Hares. perfectly natural.
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Not when there are a gang of men in the field with money changing hands!
Pat
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Might one ask in the nicest way, Pat, what it is that makes the difference: the 'gang of men' or the money? By the way, I think it's a bit ideological of you to call them a 'gang'!
I know you are in the sentimentalist camp on this one as on fox hunting. No blame. You aren't the only one. But I don't think all the same that the anti-blood sports people have really thought things through. The last government may have banned fox hunting to suck up to a segment of the voters but my guess is that the practice will outlive the ban. It isn't anti-social except on the most local level, nor does it threaten that resilient beast the fox - quite the contrary in fact.
So-called blood sports may appall some people - they always have, anyway in recent centuries - but they have been around a long time and to most normal people most of them don't seem that wicked, while to their devotees - all the tack and the joy of the chase, not sadistic sweating faces leering over the kill - they are meat and drink. Unshaven men betting on lurcher performances in a field may not appeal to you, but they must love it or they wouldn't be there. And I would remind you Pat that gangs of unshaven men with wads of grubby banknotes in one hand have human rights like everyone else.
Save Mr Fox by all means if you get the chance, let him in for a chat and a stiff drink till the snuffling hounds have left your back door, but don't mess with people's legal or semi-legal pursuits. That's disproportionate.
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Hare coursing is big business in the Fen, AC and due to the remoteness of the locations, is an organised 'sport' carried out by 'gangs' of unsavoury charachters, some of who are now being caught and prosecuted.
It is also illegal, but some choose to forget the law when it comes to something they agree with.
Fox hunting is an entirely different matter though, and I can assure you I do not come from the sentimentalist camp.
I have more experience of the down side of hunting and the affect it has on a community than any city dweller who supports it, can ever have. ( nothing personal intended there!)
My views on hunting were formed at an early age in my late teens and early twenties and are entirely based on living in between the Quorn, Cottesmore and Fernie hunting area. Until that time it was part of the countryside and a spectacle as a child I had always enjoyed, going to Oakham on Boxing Day was a tradition, and not to be missed.
Then I went to work on a small farm at Withcote, there was the farmer and myself to do everything. We had 180 sheep and lambing time was very hard work for the two of us.
One afternoon, the Hunt ran straight through the field in pursuit of a fox, despite the fact it contained 180 sheep and almost the same number of 1/2 day old lambs and some, still pregnant ewes.
It was carnage and there were lambs who could only walk on 3 legs, others separated from their mothers and various other injuries. Late into the night we were still trying to pair these lambs ( who would die) with their mothers and save then.
Save them from pain and suffering, but also save them to enable a small farmer to remain in business too.
He could have banned the Hunt from all of his land, but to have done so would have meant that it would have been impossible for him to sell anything at his local cattle market in Oakham ever again, due to peer pressure.
A couple of years later, some 4 weeks after my son was born despite being told I couldn't return to work for another couple of weeks by the doctor, finances meant I had no choice.
Work was picking potatoes into a basket, that was 'walked' along the row between your legs and emptied into a sack. It was a short season and not to be missed, as it was piecework.
I ran out of petrol on the way home one day because I had no money to buy any, and had left the car ( a Hillman minx!) and was walking when 3 riders from that days Hunt passed me, in full regalia, on their way home.
'You want to get a job and a wash ' she said, as she rode past me laughing with her friends. I have never forgotten this and never will, I was 19 yrs old and didn't have the fight in me that I have now. I was acutely embarrassed, I was dirty but that was due to sheer hard work, I had a 4 week old baby at home, looked after by my Mother who wasn't well and also my responsibility, but I had been judged by appearances, by those same people who didn't give a damn about the lambs or a small farmers livelihood.
Some years later when my Son was 10 yrs old he came and told me he'd got a job one Saturday morning and had earned 50p. He was so proud of that until I found out that he, and a group of his mates, had been 'employed' by the Hunt to 'stop up' all the fox holes in the surrounding area to stop the fox going to ground.
This is common practice and done before every hunt to ensure there will be a 'kill'
If this is nature, why do they have to stop the fox reaching sanctuary by unfair means?
So AC, gangs of men and women, whether hare coursing or fox hunting are acting illegally and though they may well have human rights, they have to be human to claim those rights.
Those I have experience of, most certainly were not.
>>but don't mess with people's legal or semi-legal pursuits. That's disproportionate<<
I assume it's OK for someone to mess with other peoles lives in pursuit of their so called 'sport' though, is that proportionate?
Pat
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Hear hear Pat!
great to see someone write about fox hunting as it really is/was.
Yes foxes will break into chicken runs, and kill the chickens, but there is, as Pat said, another side to it.
foxes like all other animals will find their own level of population, i.e. the level that space and food supply can cope with, the only species I know of that doesn't is man.......
And lets not forget, that the huntsmen used to put food out for the foxes, to make sure there was enough fit foxes with which to hunt.
BTW, I am from a long line of farmers, so by no stretch of the imagination am I a townie!
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I was brought up on a farm and a lot of what Pat says rings true.
The hunt once damaged one of our fences/hedges and we banned them.
My cousin owned the farm, which was a fair size, and other relations had farms in the area, so he had the 'poke' to stand up to the hunt.
None of us were hunting types - didn't like them much.
There are ignorant people in all walks of life, but the hunt seems to attract more than its fair share.
The other thing I noticed was those with the most to say often had the least.
I'd hear tales of society nights out in London, grouse shooting in Scotland and so on, from tenant farmers who barely owned the clothes they stood up in.
Whereas 'my' lot - no financial connection I just lived there until I left school - owned everything they had and still do.
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>>3 riders from that days Hunt passed me, in full regalia, on their way home. 'You want to get a job and a wash ' she said, as she rode past me laughing with her friends. I have never forgotten this and never will>>
I have great respect with pretty well everything you post Pat but sadly this sort of anecdote is easily associated with hunting when in reality it is unrelated.
Also on a wider point many folks above seem to see a line separating humans and nature... we are a massive part of nature and have been since humans were first on this world. So if we chose to hunt then that becomes part of nature.
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>>3 riders from that days Hunt passed me, in full regalia, on their way home. 'You want to get a job and a wash ' she said, as she rode past me laughing with her friends. I have never forgotten this and never will>>
It could just as easily have been a BMW driver. Would you therefore hate all BMW drivers evermore?
It makes no sense in this day and age to say that nature should be left to get on with itself without interference from man. e.g.
Grey squirrels introduced from the States have driven our native red squirrels out of the UK, save for small pockets in the distant corners of the country.
Brown hares introduced by the Romans have driven our native mountain or "blue" hares out of England and Wales (save for a small pocket in the Pennines which were reintroduced by the Victorians).
Foxes used to be controlled by wolves, man has hunted wolves to extinction and so there is no longer anything to control foxes, save for men.
If we got rid of slug pellets used by farmers, we would all starve.
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I agree with some of what Pat says, especially about the "Unspeakable in pursuit of the Uneatable brigade" BUT
there are hunts who dont stop up the foxholes, and who respect the countryside as many of the hunt are farmers with just the same problems.
There is however something noble about hunting with animals. It has been my pleasure to hunt naturally. I have had the chance to handle hunting birds and dogs. To enter the countryside with a bird of prey and a terrier, for the terrier to put the rabbit up and the bird to swoop and catch the game is mans link to nature in the raw, and his ancestors.
Hare coursing is much the same, a couple of fast agile dogs after a canny and agile hare is an exciting sight, usually with no pre ordained or contrived ending often with the hare loosing the dogs is natural.
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Yes, Pat's defence of her position is admirable and no one could call her a mere sentimentalist after reading it. I shouldn't have.
I must say though that the appalling arrogance and discourtesy she mentions from people hunting is probably not universal. And I agree broadly with what Zero says above. I've shot a few things to eat but I don't myself take part in chase sports. However I have some understanding and sympathy with some of those who do.
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Rat Runs - FotheringtonTomas
