Stagecoach have just put up their prices, so if I want to go to down and back it is now £3.70 (dayrider) which is beyond a joke considering its only 3.5 miles away and it takes over half an hour.
On the tram (which is 15 minutes walk to the nearest stop or a short drive) it is £2.40 return. I always get the tram unless I need to get the night bus home.
Now £3.70 for a day rider is not bad value as Stagecoach Manchester covers a wide are even verging into Derbyshire but the fact most people only buy it to make a single return journey.
How are people supposed to get out their cars while such transport companies are making several millions?
If you don't have a car and use the bus all the time it is quite cheap but for people with cars such as myself bus travel is just getting more and more expensive.
I just can't wait for the Metrolink to fix the software bugs and open the line near me which has now become a white elephant.
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I get the impression that most of us here have got bus passes. ;>)
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>> How are people supposed to get out their cars while such transport companies are making
>> several millions?
They are supposed to make several millions, its called a business. If they didnt there would be no bus.
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3.5 miles in half an hour Rattle......
Try this new bus instead.....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13012083
Last edited by: retpocileh on Fri 8 Apr 11 at 14:40
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That is the big joke, when the Metrolink comes it will take ten minutes and it will be the final laugh to Stagecoach. Of course Stagecoach will operate the Metrolink BUT the important thing is they don't own the fares, that belongs to Transport for Manchester which in term is owned by the government.
There is nothing wrong with the buses, they are all new the problem is they stop at every stop and you pay the driver.
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That is not how it works in places like London. I think all fairs should be regulated like they used to be pre 1986. Some councils such as Warrington also operate their own bus companies which result in much cheaper fairs for passengers.
The big problem with the bus sector is a lack of competition, the bigger companies just bully the smaller guys off the road. I remember what Stagecoach did in 2004 when another bus company started to operate my route. The result was a bus every few seconds.
The monopolies commission know there is a problem but unless the law changes it is all perfectly legal.
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>> That is not how it works in places like London.
Yes it is.
www.metroline.co.uk/about-us.html
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>> Yes it is.
>>
>>
>> www.metroline.co.uk/about-us.html
But Metroline operate under contract to TfL who specify the routes/frequencies and set the fares. Everywhere else it's deregualted with rival operators offering slashed fares where volumes permit but pushing them through the roof on thinner routes where there's a monopoly.
The diversity of ownership of London bus franchise holders is amazing though. Stagecoach. Arriva, NedRail/Abelio and todays' new to me - RATP (ie Paris Transport)
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 8 Apr 11 at 15:02
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The point being however, they are still private companies making a profit on bus services.
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. I think all fairs should be regulated like they used to be...... www.nfa.dept.shef.ac.uk/history/charter/history.html
The majority of fairs held in this country trace their ancestry back to charters and privileges granted in the Medieval period. In the thirteenth century, the creation of fairs by royal charter was widespread, with the Crown making every attempt to create new fairs and to bring existing ones under their jurisdiction. By the twelfth and thirteenth centuries the majority of English fairs had been granted charters and were reorganised to fall in line with their European counterparts. The granting of charters however did not necessarily herald the right to hold a fair: it was in effect the control of revenues for the Crown in return for the control and organisation to stay with a particular town, abbey or village. Between 1199 and 1350 over fifteen hundred charters were issued granting the rights to hold markets or fairs.
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Or is it .....thats not fare?
Last edited by: retpocileh on Fri 8 Apr 11 at 14:48
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Zero in London it is regulated. Transport for London pays the bus companies money for operating the buses, it works in a similar way to TOCS.
Outside of London anybody can buy any bus and run it provided you have the required licences from VOSA and all you need to is inform the traffic commissioner that you plan to run x route.
In London you are not allowed to this, all the fares and time tables are set out by Transport for London not the bus operating companies.
In Cities like Manchester as a result of no regulation you have parts of the city with hardly any bus service at all and other parts where it is flooded. Thatcher once said if you're still travelling on buses at 30 you're a failure.
That just showed just how much she completely miss understood the point of public transport.
Loads of people who own cars also use buses on busy city centre routes.
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>> Zero in London it is regulated. Transport for London pays the bus companies money for
>> operating the buses, it works in a similar way to TOCS.
They are still private companies making a profit on running bus services. If they didnt make money they wouldnt be doing it.
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I don't think all of the London companies have been making money. Stagecoach have only got back into the London market because they bought the company they sold in 2005 for a bargain price.
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I think it was only yesterday that you posted how the bus route near you ran every 5 minutes, with buses full during rush hour . If you were running that route, would you cut the price? I think if you'd invested £100s of million in vehicles, you'd be looking for a return in the £10s of millions surely?
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The point is when they have been faced with competition the big guys act like drug dealers trying to protect their turf. From memory I think they did get a big fine or at least got into trouble but the fine was nothing compared to the profit they make.
My point is £3.70 for a short return journey which is a very slow service is poor. Yes the buses are very regular here but only because the route runs through some of the most densely populated parts of Manchester and happens to terminate in the suburb where I live.
Thankfully thanks to Transport for Manchester (formally GMPTE) we will get competition. I can guarantee as soon as the Metrolink arrives here they will put cost of a return journey right down.
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But that's how markets work. I can guarantee that without the profits you wouldn't be riding round in a fleet of shiny new buses...and presumably the slow service is one of the downsides of bus travel.
BTW, doesn't the £3.70 let you use the bus all day? And how much cheaper is a weekly ticket when looked at as a cost/day?
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>>My point is £3.70 for a short return journey which is a very slow service is poor>>
Think yourself lucky Rattle. If I didn't have a bus pass, the just under a mile trip to go for my half-a-pint of Guinness would cost just under £4....
So my bus pass "pays" for one-and-a-half pints of the black and tan...:-)
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£3.70 is unlimited but most people use them just to make a return journey and the bus companies know that. The weekly is £11.50 which is not bad value but I don't make enough journeys to make that worth while. I get the tram most the times now because its a lot quicker and cheaper even if you include the mile walk.
I really wish they would abolish the pay the driver system but the bus companies think they have no competition so they have no incentive when in reality the car and rail is their competition.
Those prices are just for Stagecoach and it is a lot more expensive if you need go to an area out of where Stagecoach operates. If I wanted to got Salford for example by bus it would cost me £20 a week now and it would take me over an hour, it is just four miles away!.
I would just walk it.
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my local bus fares are higher than yours rattle for a lot less distance
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i like my sardines in a can thank you ;-)
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Which means for most people who make 5 return journeys a week to and from work they pay just £2.30 per day, with the option of unlimited travel outside of that for free (which probabaly includes teh other 2 days in the week). That seems like great value to me.
The problem is your useage pattern doesn't fit the norm, and the pricing models that are filling the buses don't work for you. Howver you can't possible expect a bus company to offer its most competitive price to less frequent users can you?
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>> £3.70 is unlimited
Which makes it good value doesn't? Travel anywhere in Manchester on buses for £3.70. But only on Arriva buses. For use of most buses at any time it rises to £4.90 for a SystemOne Day Saver Peak but the services and area are wider. You can also buy single or return tickets on the bus.
I thought the tram from Didsbury to Manchester was via Chorlton and Trafford. So from Chorlton won't it be more than 10 minutes?
I also thought buses only stopped at the stops where people wanted to get on or get off. it could be all stops on a busy/popular route. If they didn't then there'd be angry customers.
Doesn't GMPTE regulate buses in Manchester BTW?
Link to the Arriva site for buying tickets on your mobile:
www.arrivabus.co.uk/landing.aspx?id=6018
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 8 Apr 11 at 16:36
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Gmpte is now called transport for greater.manchester. It has very limited.regulation powers. It has.no say in fares other than system one. It will be 12 mins from chorlton to the city. Will reply properly later typing on phone now.
T
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Gmpte is now called transport for greater.manchester. It has very limited.regulation powers. It has.no say in fares other than system one. It will be 12 mins from chorlton to the city. Will reply properly later typing on phone now.
T
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>> Gmpte is now called transport for greater.manchester
But isn't that just a name change?
"Transport for Greater Manchester is the new name for Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (GMPTE)."
Bus services were better in Manchester back when we had GM Bus. Or whatever the company behind the orange buses was. Even had the Piccadilly line with old style London double decker buses.
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>> Stagecoach have just put up their prices, so if I want to go to down
>> and back it is now £3.70 (dayrider) which is beyond a joke ...........
..................
>> Now £3.70 for a day rider is not bad value .........
Make your mind up! Beyond a joke or not bad value?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 8 Apr 11 at 18:17
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£3.70 is not bad for value for a day saver. The problem is there is no return ticket and a single to the city centre is £2.40 so if you just want to make two short journeys it is £3.70 which is beyond a joke considering how slow the journey is.
TFGM do have more powers than GMPTE did, they will be responsible for stuff like traffic light timings within Greater Manchester.
GM Buses was owned by GMPTE but they sold it to manangers in the early 90's. They split it off as two companies, GM North and GM South. North was then sold to Firstbus and GM Buses south was sold to Stagecoach.
Arriva bought out Walls and a few other companies such as Bluebus.
£3.70 for a dayrider is fine, £3.70 just to go town and back is not, when places with a train service are much less. It is much cheaper to get from Stockport to the city centre by train than it is by bus if you just do the odd journey.
The clipercard system was a lot fairer. You got discounts if you bought a pre paid card and you clipped it each journey you made.
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You clearly cant grasp the economics of running a bus company. They are not charities, they are private companies that have to jump through a mass of ( expensive ) legislation just so you can get somewhere for a few quid.
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Equivalent fare in Norwich is £3.90 for a mile and half trip into the city and back. I guess you are lucky
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Travel on the Cote d'Azur bus service costs a flat fare of one euro. For that you get a frequent service, comfortable coach-type seat, air conditioning and - depending on the mood of the driver - quite nice music on the radio.
You can travel from the Italian border as far as Nice (via legendary Casino Square in Monte Carlo) for one euro, or from the Italian border to Cannes for two euros, or from the Med coast on a hair raising ride up into the Alps to the Italian border at Tende for an euro. It appears that only the (mostly Monaco-based) drivers of 'supercars' sit in the traffic, everyone else seems to use the bus and they are always almost full so the economics must make sense.
It doesn't seem to be rocket science.
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>>Travel on the Cote d'Azur bus service..>>
Yes, but the taxpayer is picking up the tab.....
Same for most continental public transport. British Railways cost the taxpayer billions over the years and was a guaranteed loss maker at the time.
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>> >>Travel on the Cote d'Azur bus service..>>
>>
>> Yes, but the taxpayer is picking up the tab.....
>>
>> Same for most continental public transport. British Railways cost the taxpayer billions over the years
>> and was a guaranteed loss maker at the time.
BR was quite efficient on the whole. Subsidies have spiralled upwards since privatisation.
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>> BR was quite efficient on the whole. Subsidies have spiralled upwards since privatisation.
After Beeching yes. Pre Beeching it threatened to bankrupt the country.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 9 Apr 11 at 08:52
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>> £3.70 for a dayrider is fine, £3.70 just to go town and back is not,
>> when places with a train service are much less. It is much cheaper to get
>> from Stockport to the city centre by train than it is by bus if you
>> just do the odd journey.
It seems to me that the train is too cheap in that case!! Certainly can't get to many places round here by train for less than £3.70 :-) As said before, they offer cheap prices to regular users through weekly tickets. Infrequent users pay more; that's simple economics I'm afraid...
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We have a lot to learn, the last time I was in Milan, I drove into a multi storey car park at a bus / rail / underground / park and ride (one of several). One Euro to park all day, one Euro on the underground to the centre of Milan.
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At the weekend and off-peak I can get the train to Manchester and back for about £1.90 return and it takes around 10 minutes. Maybe that will mean lots of the BBC Media City people will move here and push up our house prices :-) Not that I am selling mine for a bit having bought it last May.
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I went to work on the bus last month when I was between cars... £2.90 single fare to go 13 miles. Probably a bit more than 13 miles actually as it detoured through two or three villages on the way. No complaints, although it was a bit unnerving being a passenger in a vehicle for the first time in donkeys' years.
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And you live at least 2/3 as far as I do to the city centre if not more although if we are talking Picciddily there is not much in it. I am four miles to Pic station by bus but if I am going there I get off at Oxford and walk via Granby Row as it is lot quicker (no traffic).
£1.90 return is very good, if you got on a Stagecoach 192 from Stockport Road it would take 35-40 minutes and cost you £3.75, which is exactly the point of this thread.
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It seems to me that the train is too cheap in that case!!
I agree best whack up the fares we want a pay rise this year.............:-)
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The cost of bus travel - bathtub tom
