I'm now the proud owner of a Bose iPod dock.
Mine is the most basic £195 one, mains only, with no aux socket.
The thread title is a reference to the usual anti-Bose comment - no treble or bass, just mid-range.
They even mention it in a leaflet in the box, apparently the shrill treble and boom bass sound is initially attractive, but you soon tire of it.
Better to have Bose - they say - which is more natural and listenable for longer.
I agree the dock has a good sound for its size, and I reckon it has plenty of bass, although some listeners might think it lacks range.
There's not much in the way of a stereo soundstage, thanks to the one-box design.
Plenty of volume should you want it, decent detail and very little distortion.
I'm quite impressed.
Any other Bose users out there?
Or what's your experience of other makes of dock?
tinyurl.com/5wv3ahw
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Always like Bose stuff, cant stomach their prices tho.
This one
www.johnlewis.com/231039535/Product.aspx?source=63258
The JBL on stage micro 2 is very impressive. Shufty down to comet and plug your ipod into one, and drown out the store with some ELO - Last train to London is a good un. YOu wouldnt think such a small thing could make such a good noise.
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...Always like Bose stuff, cant stomach their prices tho...
I was thinking it's a good partner for my iPod - both brands are good, but over-hyped and over-priced.
A friend has a JBL On Stage - dog's bowl he calls it.
I agree it has a surprisingly good sound for its size.
It would have been interesting to compare it to a Bose.
From memory of listening to his JBL, I think the Bose has a bit more grunt in all areas, as you might expect from a machine which is much bigger and more than twice the money.
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I just never got on with Bose in pure HIFI terms because to me the sound was always a bit forced.
For an IPOD dock you're never going to get much in the way of a soundstage anyway so it doesn't really matter. For £200 I am sure it is more than good enough for casual room listening.
I would never spend £3k on a typical Bose setup though but one of my audiophile mates is a really big fan as he reckons tweeters and crossovers just distort the sound.
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I know what you mean by too much bass. I had a Sennheiser PX100 heapdphone which had good mid range and highs, and decent understated bass. Nothing stunning, but pleasing. When mine broke, I replaced it with the PX100 II which has strong mushy bass. Awful. I may be wrong, but I don't think cheap headphones do bass well.
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Guy at richer sounds told me Bose mandate that any of their products demo'd in a store must not be adjacent to any other brand. I.e. On a isle end etc. He left it open ended as to why that is but with a knowing look on his face.
Never bothered to check curry's or John Lewis to find out if it's true.
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Hmmm.
Some years ago in John Lewis I saw some dinky Bose speakers which sounded absolutely fantastic and a steal at £45 each.
"I'll take two!" I proclaimed loudly to the salesman.
"Which ones, Sir?" he asked.
"The £45 ones, please" I replied.
His response of, "Sir, the wall brackets are £45 each. The speakers are somewhat more" has never had me back in John Lewis out of sheer embarrassment.
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BOSE sound system in the Mazda. Same stereo as the others but additional amp and sub woofer. The later inside the spare wheel. It sounds good especially when on high. Rarely do that though.
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I have had a Bose Acoustimass speaker system for years. Two speakers the size of coffee mugs, and a subwoofer. It can shake the windows in the house and it is only attached to a Denon CD/radio.
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I use PX100 for my MP3 Players and for TV listening they are brilliant for what they are. Not a patch on the Grados though.
A Bose system in the car would be fine due and very good quality compared to most stuff.
I have nothing against Bose, it is just not my cup for tea for pure HIFI.
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>>Or what's your experience of other makes of dock?>>
I have a Pure i20:
www.pure.com/products/product.asp?Product=VL-61429&Category=
It has a built in DAC and ths gives CD quality sound through my hifi from 320 Kbps AAC files, it really gets the best out of the iPod.
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I was in John Lewis the other day, and they had a Bowers & Wilkins "Zeppelin" iPod dock blasting away. Named, I presume, for the styling which resembles the famous German airship, rather than the band ;-)
Very, very impressive. Filled what was a pretty large room very effortlessly. But then it is 500 notes.
We are going to invest in a decent iPod dock soon, but the budget sadly won't stretch that far. The JBL 'Radial' dock caught my eye, and at about £140 for the larger model, is much more sensibly priced, but we will be auditioning carefully.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 4 Apr 11 at 20:56
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Like ON, we have a Bose Acoustimass system connected into our amp, and then wifi the Iphone to that. Sounds pretty ok to me, given the limitations of digital files of course. We use the same system for the TV, CD, turntable and radio.
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In terms of HIFI though it is nothing. My dad paid £500 for a Sony midi system in 1987 although it did include a CD player.
I must have spent well over £1k over the years but it is a hobby.
Not heard the B&W but if it is anything like their book shelf speakers I am sure it will be amazing.
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The limitation in respect of hifi from an iPod is its built in DAC, to get real hifi from a dock it must have its own DAC, i.e. it must take the digital source from the iPod and convert it to analogue rather than simply amplify the iPod's analogue output.
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The Ipod is quite unique in that it has a digital output circuit on the connector isn't it? I thought nearly all good quality Ipod docks have their own DAC.
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pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 4 Apr 11 at 22:59
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So there is no actual digital output? I wonder if these docking bays with DACs use the USB data outputs e.g they they process the compressed files as well as just converting them to analogue.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 4 Apr 11 at 23:14
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They stream the digital audio through the USB pins. Its just the same as if it was a digital audio file on a hard disk.
Edit, dont know what serial data is through 12 & 13 - might use those.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 4 Apr 11 at 23:22
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>> They stream the digital audio through the USB pins. Its just the same as if it was a digital audio file on a hard disk.
This I assume is also how most car stereos play music off an iPod, i.e. they use it like a hard drive. Which is why I won't get the MDI option on the Passat... easier to use an SD Card. In fact I will probably have a few so I can have less music to scroll through when driving with music that goes together on each.
And there's always Bluetooth audio streaming from my phone too.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 4 Apr 11 at 23:28
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Yep and most modern TVs can do it too. I've seen a Skoda Suburb which didn't even have a CD player, just USB and SD ports.
Really wish my car had a USB port, CDs are are so antique.
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The Skoda will have had at least a CD slot - probably a multi-changer. I did consider one of these because of how cheap a Superb Elegance would be.... I'd save a lot. Ugly things though and a stupid name.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 4 Apr 11 at 23:45
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My customer said it didn't and it was causing him problems (he was old) but I suspect it was probably under the seat or in the boot or something :).
I think they are just a bit too big for city driving really, my uncles is always getting scratched in car parks but he bought it because it was cheap (compared to other large cars) and reliable and he's had it for years and years seems happy with it.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 5 Apr 11 at 00:02
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I have a Teac CX 200 system in the bedroom...it works well as a mini hifi with radio, CD & ipod docking unit. The two supplied speakers are more than adequate and it is a nice piece of kit.
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Zepellin in the kitchen. I'm inclined to agree that excess bass/treble would be wearing and initially mistaken by many as good sound. Bit unfair to compare a Zep at £400 to a £200 dock though. The lounge is where it's all happening - Roksan Xerxes/RB300/Linn Adikt, Naim Nait XS, neat Motive 3's. Bliss. Who needs a DAC when it's all analogue in the first place?
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...The lounge is where it's all happening - Roksan Xerxes/RB300/Linn Adikt, Naim Nait XS, neat Motive 3's. Bliss...
I've never had the chance to listen to a high-end system for a decent length of time in a relaxed environment.
You don't fancy making friends do you?
I'll bring the nibbles, and you can have a play on the MacBook if you like.
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None of the "grooming" on this site if you please, Iffy.
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I'm only 12 you know...
The Macbook is supposed to be really good when coupled to a DAC and then into an amplifier. The limiting factor is the compression rate on the music files, but that's easily overcome with an offboard hard drive. Lots of people listening to their music on their main systems in this way alone. No CD's. Quite highly regarded is the Mac.
Any decent mid/high end hi fi dealer will happily give you 30 mins in their demo room with a half decent system to give you a taster. Their are some truly excellent CD players now. A system with CD at about £800, amp at the same and speakers from £500-£800 would astound many people. Whether it's expensive or not is a matter of opinion. Bear in mind that I just sold my 1989 Naim amplifier for £340. I think it cost about that then, maybe a little more, but that's hardly expensive ownership. My turntable cost £700 back in 1988 and whilst it's been somewhat upgraded, would happily sell for £500 today.
Whereabouts are you Iffy?
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Remember Woodster he'll be bringing an ELO 3CD box set :-)
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...Whereabouts are you Iffy?...
North East or North Yorkshire, depending if I'm at Iffy Towers or at the caravan.
I take your point about a demo, but it's still not the same.
I'm not blaming the dealer, they cannot realistically do a lot more, short of lending you the complete set of kit for a week.
As regards the Mac, I have it plugged directly into a £250 Onkyo midi DAB receiver.
I've only played music from iPlayer or Jango, but it sounds as good as the other sources.
Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 5 Apr 11 at 11:27
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The problem with high end systems is they can take a while to get used to, even my system which is low end has that problem. Compared to some of the cheaper forced systems it sounds a little lacking in bass but you're rewarded with a soundstage and a singing treble which is never too bright or tiring.
I would say what my system lacks compared to higher end systems is bass depth and the timing but not sounding tiring.
My Grados have that balance.
Most the stuff I listen to is rock so I need the guitars to sound very clear but not over powering.
I use my M Audio (24/96 audiophile) sound card as my main source now as I am lazy, but I do have a Project Debut II and a Marantz CD 6000 OSE LE (thats the japs for you!) and a DAB as other sources. I use a late 80's mid range Rotel pre amp for my headphones and phono stage.
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I agree with you Iffy about bringing stuff home. Always different in your own environment but having said that, the best dealers will demo in a dedicated lounge without other unnecessary equipment present. Indeed, some manufacturers require such demo facilities before allowing their stuff to be sold.
Rattle, so much bunkum is spoken about hi-fi. Again, I agree with you. If it's offensive to the ear then it's no good and you won't want to listen. That applies however much it costs. But regardless of the kit used it's music that I like. Doesn't matter whether it's on the radio or in my lounge, just love to hear the stuff I like.
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>> But regardless of the kit used it's music that I
>> like. Doesn't matter whether it's on the radio or in my lounge, just love to
>> hear the stuff I like.
+1
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My Panda system is crap, but the head unit is at least a Blaunkept (sp?) which produces about 25w RMS per channel into the four speaker system. No tweeters (I needed to buy a higher model for that) but it sounds ok for a car system. If I am driving I tend to listen to the radio (XFM or Rock Radio) or my Simon and Garfunkel and Ramones CDs are they are both quite simple and don't sound too bad on the car radio.
I don't know how people can listen to music on mobile speakers or the cheap £1 ear buds you get free with them, to me they just sound offensive.
I just hope thsi Yamaha I pick up tonight sounds good enough, I am not expecting anything like audiophile but as longs as it is not offensive it will be fine.
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Bose is like Marmite. Either you get it or you don't.
I don't and my attitude goes back 40 years.
Of course, Marmite has never (to my knowledge) made an absurd price a 'must have' feature.
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My mate got some bose speakers for his pc, they sound better than the labtec ones i got for mine, think they about £80
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>> I thought nearly all good quality Ipod docks have their own DAC.
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No, many don't have a DAC and simply amplify the iPod's analogue output, this is just like connecting an iPod to a hifi via a 3.5mm to RCA cable, the Pure DAC dock is infinitely better than this.
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Seems a bit pointless amplifying a bad signal though. However for speaker and amp quality most docking stations have the ipods DAC is more than good enough.
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The point is that an iPod is a very good way of carrying a high quality digital audio file and ergonimically is is a very good way of controlling that file as well. However the internal DAC is not great, not really to hifi standards hence the best docks have their own DAC.
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>> The point is that an iPod is a very good way of carrying a high quality digital audio file and
>> ergonimically is is a very good way of controlling that file as well
But if you have a car stereo that has the option to use an iPod connection (e.g. VAG MDI) or USB (e.g. VAG MDI) or SD card (e.g. VW RNS510 or RNS 315) then if the same MP3 file then all three connection methods the same quality?
I could have fitted and iPod lead to the back of the Mazda6 stereo (and it has BOSE amplifier and subwoofer).... easier to have the files on a CD in the 6 disk auto-changer in the dash. I swap the content on the CDRW's every now and then.
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>>But if you have a car stereo that has the option to use an iPod connection >>
Some may have a built in DAC (for use with an iPod, the CD player has a DAC of course) though I am sure most dont so better to put the digital files on CD as MP3 files and play them through the CD slot.
The latest VW's offer an iPod compatible cable and full iPod control though that does not mean that the head unit incorpoarates a DAC for the iPod digital signal.
Of course in many cars the difference between the iPod DAC and an external DAC would be lost due to the general audio performance / speakers not being top notch. It is home hifi where the difference is very apparent.
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>> The latest VW's offer an iPod compatible cable and full iPod control
I suspect they just read the files... although the real test would be files purchased via iTunes that are AAC's with DRM. Anyone confirm this.
I think I'll get a few SD Cards and go that route.... different cards for different driving moods. I could put a massive one in and then have to many files to scan through.
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If they read SD cards then they have two DACs or the DAC is procssing CD audio as well as the SD files - hence they might also handle digital files of an iPod.
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The stereo/sat navs like the RNS 310/315/510 have the option for an MDI input (cables for USB or iPod) and have SD Card slots as standard. I suspect the latter is all you need but you need to be slightly techie I guess.
Whereas I could have an iPod/iPhone with the music I want it sync'd and controlled via iTunes, I could also drag and drop MP3s onto an SD Card costing a few quid.
My car is a company car so I'd pay for the MDI connection effectively... surely better and cheaper for all in my position to use SD cards?
Now the only options for me for now were:
- cable connection for an iPod to the BOSE stereo's rear (about £120 and potentially the entire centre dash to remove! I think I could feel the way via the back/side of the glovebox),
- CDs written from MP3s (my option) or
- the TomTom playing MP3s over the FM transmitter... have an iPod cable for the TomTom and used it about twice!
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If I was that fussy it wouldn't be on an Ipod, regardless of what bit rate you use.
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I am not too sure, I am being lazy and I use Spotify premium as my main source now (it is just too easy) which is 320kbs but I do have an M audio low latency sound card which as a decent DAC on it.
The sound quality between that and the inbuilt sound card is night and day, however I am using an amp and decent speakers/headphones.
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Rattle, I find your use of MP3s (a lossy compression format) and obsession with amplifiers interesting ;-)
I'd have thought all your main audio was on a non-lossy format.
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If I am doing serious lessing then I use my Marantz CD player (equalvent new model is £350) or my turntable.
However a lot of the time 320kbps is just fine. I do have quite a few albums which are lossless but the songs can be 50mb+.
I admit Spotify is an audiophile source but I do have a very good sound card designed for audiophile use.
I suppose it the same argument between TIFF, RAW and JPEG. You would struggle to tell the difference between a RAW and a lightly compressed JPEG.
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320Kbps AAC files are great on an iPod, the problem is that iTunes downloads are 250Kbps max hence you have to rip from CD.
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No highs, no lows - it must be Bose - Zero
