The property we have just bought is billed for water based on rateable value. The charge for the next 12 months is £277.
Based on member's experiences, at what level is it worth opting to go on a metered supply?
I know that usage varies from family to family, but I would say that in a 2 bed. semi, occupied by two people, we are classed as "average" users.
In Spain we used around 30 cubic meters every three months, so around 100 to 120 is likely here, given we only have a shower and one bathroom.
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If the cost is really £277 then you're not going to save with a water meter.
With United Utilities there is some fixed charges that total about £110 I think. Then the cost of water plus waste water per cubic metre is about £2.46. So 120 units over the year would be another £295 on top.
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You need to check the local water company's prices but my gut reaction would be that £277 is a good deal.
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Wish our bill was that low. Sounds good to me.
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Well only 2 of us plus a sort of dog, but we do have a Mira shower that uses lots of water plus the usual water using domestic appliances, and i wash both cars weekly, properly.
We're on meter and our monthly payment is £19, Anglian Water.
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It's based on a rateable value (circa 1984) of £130, and is made up of £136.68 for water and £134.00 for sewerage & surface water!
It seemed a lot to me, as we were only paying between 50 to 60 € per quarter in Spain - and that only recently, as 35€ for three months used to be the norm until a year or so ago.
The house only cost £2500 new, in 1984 - even then that was very, very cheap. I could hardly believe it when I saw it on the original deeds.
Interestingly the previous owners were on the Economy7 tariff for leccie, despite their using gas central heating, with nary a storage heater in sight - that'll change PDQ!
Last edited by: Roger on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 20:57
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Hey, this country has the second highest rainfall in Europe, you don't expect water to be cheaper than Arid, dry, rainfall less Spain do you?
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Rome gets more rain than London & East Anglia regions - so lots of rain in Fort William does not count in the SE of England although it boosts the UK average rainfall.
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>> Rome gets more rain than London & East Anglia regions - so lots of rain
>> in Fort William does not count in the SE of England although it boosts the
>> UK average rainfall.
2000 years ago The Romans managed to shift water up and down Italy using aqueducts, yet we can shift water down the country some 2000 years later.
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>> Hey, this country has the second highest rainfall in Europe, you don't expect water to be cheaper than Arid, dry, rainfall less Spain do you?>>
The sheer volume of upgrading and maintenance undertaken by United Utilities over a huge area of the North West, including big cities such as Liverpool and Manchester, along with my own town, make my water rate seem very worthwhile at just over £400.
As for water meters my best mate and his other half, who live in a one-bedroomed bungalow with the same rateable value as my three-bedroomed Victorian semi, has discovered he's paying far more for water with a meter than the original fixed annual sum.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 22:04
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We have a meter and pay a lot less than we would if it was based on rateable value. If we didn't have a meter I think we'd be paying at least £55 per month. But I can't be sure because the house had a meter already.
Previous house we had nearby was nearer £70pm.
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May be worth doing some arithmetic around your leccy. Economy 7 might just make sense if you use washer/tumble dryer and dishwasher on timers to run in small hours or even if, with a welll insulated cistern you could use electric water heating in summer.
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Combi boiler, so no tank!
No dishwasher, (no room in the kitchen), dryer probably in the shed with a chest freezer, (same reason) unless we can afford a conservatory to use as a sort of utility room cum sun-room!
Had an initial estimate this pm for a lean-to conservatory (modest size IMO) of around £6K. Why so expensive, I ask myself?
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When we eventually get away I'll miss the Fen... our current water bill is £95/yr!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 23:19
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According to Martins money saving expert: if you have more bedrooms than people you would *probably* be better off on a meter, but if you go to U.U website they have a "calculator" which helps you decide, We found that even if we only showered once a week (whether we needed it or not) and only ran the bath when it was full of pots, we would pay nearly twice as much by opting for a meter!
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I'm amazed at how little some of you pay and I'm now even more determined to check ours.
Three bedrooms, two people, one bathroom, shower used daily with Anglia Water and we pay £35 per month.
I have tried to query it with them in the past and also tried to read the meter ourselves.
For ages we couldn't remove the lid, but finally got that off and then found the meter to be under about 4'' of water and impossible to read despite bailing as much water as possible out.
AW assure us they get the lid off and read it every time, but I have my doubts as it never seems to be 'disturbed at all.
Pat
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>> Private supply - free.
>>
Aren't you supposed to pay for an annual inspection to verify the quality of your water, Cliff? Folks in West Wales where my Mum lives have to do so, and this year the bill has increased from £45 to £500 in one fell swoop. Not only that, anyone with more than one dwelling on their land (e.g. holiday cottages etc) have to pay for each individual dwelling.
Yee ouchie. Many unhappy farmers.
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>> >
>>
>> Aren't you supposed to pay for an annual inspection to verify the quality of your
>> water, Cliff? .
>>
No. Only if it supplies other properties, or is used commercially, eg B&B or campsite.
A private owner is still free to drink polluted water if he wishes.
Actually, after drinking it for 25 years and raising a family on it, we did get the water tested out of interest. It cost £75. Basically it passed, but the report said the quantity of colliforms was undetectably small, but under the rules they were obliged to report it as if it contained the minimum detectable level.
When I rang them up they admitted it was nonsense, but those are the rules. So we continue to drink it. It is delicious water, and makes all other mains water taste like a swimming pool.
Bottled water is boringly bland by comparison.
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We're lucky here - we're amongst around 400 properties that source water from an upland lake (above Llanberis' Hydro Electric scheme), as clear as gin with no residue and as soft as summer's breeze (if slightly radio active) - the tap water quality is pretty good - Anglesey is another matter apparently.
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>> We're lucky here - we're amongst around 400 properties that source water from an upland
>> lake (above Llanberis' Hydro Electric scheme), as clear as gin with no residue and as
>> soft as summer's breeze (if slightly radio active).....
If you turn the light off while standing at the toilet, are you tempted to do "light sabre" impressions?
May the force be with you :)
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>>as clear as gin with no residue and as soft as summer's breeze<<
No good m8 - furs the arteries up, better orf with London hard!
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It is unlikely that the OP will achieve any cost saving by having a water meter installed. I doubt that many of his immediate neighbours have one.
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>>According to Martins money saving expert:<<
Expert in what I wonder?
I switched my phone line rental to Primus on his recommendation and they are a complete bunch of crooks IMO!!
Mind you - I woz warned by an esteemed forum member to avoid them like the plague.
Morning C/S :)
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water meter a no no at the £277 charge as once fitted you are at the mercy of the meter readings in future
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>>...as once fitted you are at the mercy of the meter readings in future
>>
IIRC, in my area you can have a water meter fitted and if within a year you are not satisfied there are savings then you can revert back to normal charging.
The next owner of my property will have no option but to have the water metered.
There have certainly been quite a lot of water meters fitted in my street.
I am exploring having a new water main fitted plus a water meter.
The pipe run from pavement to the house is very short, fairly non disruptive and simple to put in place. As I am about to have all ground floor carpet replaced it seemed sense to run the pipe under the suspended floors to the kitchen then job done.
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Pat,
You need to make sure you haven't got a leak between your house and the meter. Is the meter outside or in the house ? The only way you can reliably check this is by watching the ickle spinning disc on the meter when all taps etc are off.
There are cases of over-reading meters you can ask "them" to check/replace it.
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The best thing to do is to ensure that the meter is situated in side the house. All service pipe leaks (consumption) at their expense.
But it does need some creative thinking to give them a reason to put it inside!
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They don't like it inside these days - access issues and the such like :-)
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they dont like it uppem either
but jones y got away with it
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>>> then found the meter to be under about 4'' of water
Leak on the outlet of the meter??
I hate water meters.... about 15yrs ago had a real fight to stop Cambridge Water forcing us to have one here.
17yrs ago we briefly rented a farm cottage which unknown to us had a meter half a field away. Highway contactors severed the supply on our side of the meter and it was flowing full bore for ages.
Once they repaired the leak and the meter was discovered AWA billed us back about two years before we took the place on as that was the last time anyone paid. Nightmare to sort out.
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>> it does need some creative thinking to give them a reason to put it inside
My plumbing tutor had an electronic water meter in the cupboard under his kitchen sink, with a link to a sender unit on the external wall that could be "read" by the meter reader's digital device thingy when the house was unattended.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Sun 27 Mar 11 at 16:23
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I am in no way a typical household but my water meter suits me fine, compared with paying a fixed charge based on rateable value. My house is unoccupied every other week, I have three hot taps and three cold plus a shower, and a toilet to flush. I am paying £9 a month for water in and sewage out and am £s in credit too! East Anglian Water BTW
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The meter is outside PU and outside of the perimeter of the property as well in what passes for a pavement down a lane in the Fen.
I did ask them to check it last year as it was always £28 per month when we were both away all week from Monday to Friday in the lorries.
The problem is they will carry out tests, but if they find the problem isn't theirs, they then bill you for all the testing work carried out.
Fenlander, I did mention to them that the meter is under water and they said that is normal?
Pat
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It's normal for the Fens!
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All joking apart they can't just say it's normal. Our stoptap is at the highway boundary where they'd put a meter if we had one... soil around it is dry. A couple of years ago we had a 5yr old house in the village that did have a meter... just off the path edge and that was bone dry with spiders and cobwebs.... we had to rub the dust off the dial to read it.
As a matter of interest the monthly readings were very high at that house and we eventually found it was an issue with the quality of toilets fitted to all the houses whereby the cistern seals dribbled water all the while.
It would be very interesting Pat if you had a few days away to shut off the stoptap in the house then take before/after meter readings... if it increases with no use something is leaking.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 27 Mar 11 at 18:41
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I was just going to suggest that. These meters have been known to be badly calibrated as well...
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Thanks to all for your input.
We'll stick with the RV way and have just opted for monthly D/D, to pay over 8 months.
I like to drip all utility bills - helps with budgeting.
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you mostly seem to be getting away lightly - our recent six monthly payment to severn-trent was over £300.
band E, unmetered.
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Well - if you will live in a band E property...................................................!
Our "new" house is Band A these days. That gives us a council tax of £ 1050 before any reductions for poverty!
As I mentioned the original RV in 1984 was £130, on which un-metered charges are calculated.
There are benefits in living in an unpopular area!
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>> band E, unmetered.
Does the Council Tax band matter? I thought that where meters were not mandatory water chareges were based on the 1973 Rateable Value?
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Meters are not mandatory in my area, unless it's new property etc.
Mine is based on the rateable value (Band C in my case).
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Another thought about Pat's situation. You could measure the depth of the meter and dig a minimum size hole somewhere else in the front garden that isn't near the water service to see what the ground water level is in the area. This is only a guide and not absolute proof.
Of course as well as mains water leakage your meter could be suffering waterlogging from a cracked surface water drain in the path.
Still think your metered bills are too high.... they are double that of my retired parents in Huntingdon who have a 3-bed semi and are there all the time.
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Pat's a keen gardener.
I don't know if she likes a drink, but I bet her plants do.
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I do water the hanging baskets (17!) and tubs, but it was just the same when we were away all week and even allowing for the watering, a lot of which is done by water butts, I would expect it to be lower than that.
Hyacinth Bouquet next door only pays £19 per month, is also a keen gardener with just as many hanging baskets and only two people living there.
Pat
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>>
>> Does the Council Tax band matter?
probably not, it was for information, like being unmetered.
>>I thought that where meters were not mandatory water
>> chareges were based on the 1973 Rateable Value?
>>
The place was built in 1984, so the rateable value may have some correlation to the tax band, or just be a lot higher because of house price inflation between 1973 and 1984.
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Got my bill on Saturday...no meter, United Utilities want about the same as last year.
Half year £278,,,paid in cash at the Post Office this morning when I took me census in.
Ted
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Cambridge Water Co, water meter, two of us: last six monthly bill £110, this six monthly bill just come, £104, so £214 per year.
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>>United Utilities want about the same as last year.>>
It's gone up slightly, the explanation being the considerable sums still required to be spent on upgrading the infrastructure in the North West. See:
www.unitedutilities.com/bill.aspx
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>> The place was built in 1984, so the rateable value may have some correlation to
>> the tax band, or just be a lot higher because of house price inflation between
>> 1973 and 1984.
Rateable values were used for the domestic rate (ie local authority tax) until the advent of the community charge in 1989. The value was set by the Valuation Service and was based on a somewhat arcane calculation of the annual rent which the property would achieve. There were supposed to be regular revaluations but of course each of these generated cost, controversy and huge numbers of appeals. Consequently governments of either stripe were reluctant to carry them out and those due after 1973 never happened. The valuation service were therefore left to value new houses and changes to existing properties post ‘73 according to a valuation ‘tone’ as at April 1973. We now have the same thing in England with Council Tax where values at 1991 are still used as a revaluation is politically too difficult. Wales (& I think Scotland) have revalued since 1991.
Rateable value ceased to have any purpose after the Community Charge came in except for water charges which are still based on near thirty year old rental values.
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>> Rateable value ceased to have any purpose after the Community Charge came in except for
>> water charges which are still based on near thirty year old rental values.
>>
>>
Increases for many/most/all at some point in the future then.
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Water in Scotland is charged with the Council Tax. When I looked a few years ago the standing charge was about the same as a Band D property, and unless you never used any water, you were better off paying the CT based charge (ours is Band E - about £480 / year).
Flate we had in reading had a meter, and it was always full of water. Bailed it out, and then you can wipe the silt off the meter and read it. It was read - came home one day to find the pavement wet and the pipe empty.
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Water charges, - rtj70
