Non-motoring > Are fails noted on GCE certificates? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: tyro Replies: 26
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 08:20 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - tyro
In Scotland currently, if a pupil fails one of the Highers - roughly the equivalent of A levels - no mention of this is made on the certificate that is given to the pupil. Only the grades for the subjects passed are listed. It was not always thus.

So I have a question. If a pupil sits GCE A levels these days, and passes some subjects but fails at least one, do the fails appear on the certificate?
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 08:54 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - hobby
I thought the certificate listed all the subjects taken and the grades obtained...
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:03 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - L'escargot
>> I thought the certificate listed all the subjects taken and the grades obtained...
>>

If the Scottish GCE is similar to the former English GCE then you don't get grades, you either pass or fail.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:00 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - L'escargot
I didn't think there were currently any qualifications/examinations known as GCE ~ General Certificate of Education. What's the name of the examining board? In my day, in England, fails weren't listed on the certificate.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:08 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - tyro
L'escargot,

Wikipedia, the source of all misinformation, seems to think that there are:

"The General Certificate of Education or GCE is an academic qualification that examination boards in the United Kingdom and a few of the commonwealth countries, notably Sri Lanka, confer to students."

An official looking organisation called the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance also seems to be under the impression that GCE exams still exist:

web.aqa.org.uk/over/qual/gceas.php

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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:14 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Iffy
When I took GCSE - General Certificate of Secondary Education - exams, all grades and subjects were listed on the certificate.

A to E, plus U - ungraded if you were really hopeless.

A to C was regarded as a 'pass' for the purposes of counting the number of GCSEs you had.

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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:19 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - L'escargot
>> When I took GCSE - General Certificate of Secondary Education - exams, all grades and
>> subjects were listed on the certificate.

According to tyro's link, GCE test a more advanced level of education than GCSE.

"A-level is short for Advanced Level Examinations, because they test a more advanced level of education than the GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education) ..........."
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:15 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - L'escargot
tyro,

Thanks for updating me.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 09:46 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Iffy
....A-level is short for Advanced Level Examinations, because they test a more advanced level of education than the GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education)...

I took three A levels and passed those with good grades, so I cannot say if poor grades or fails appeared on the certificate at the time.

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New Fri 18 Mar 11 10:04 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - RattleandSmoke
A GCE was a more basic exam than the O level. It is basically the same as GCSE Foundation tear now, Of course the advanced GCE still exists. And yep they just list the grade A-U. U being unclassified.

On a higher tear exam if you don't get at least a C you have failed.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 10:12 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Bromptonaut
>> A GCE was a more basic exam than the O level. It is basically the
>> same as GCSE Foundation tear now,

Sorry Rats but, at least through fifties to eighties that's plain wrong. The usual argument, thogh not well sustained by its advocates, is that GCSE has 'dumbed down' O GCE O levels.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 13:22 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - RattleandSmoke
That is beyond the scope of this thread really. It is a debate which will never go away.

But in basic terms:-

GCE = level 1
GCSE (D to G) = level 1
GCE O level - Level 2
GCSE (A* to C) level 2
A level = level 3
HE certificate = level 4
HE diploma = level 5
Honours degree = level 6
Masters = level 7
Doctorate = level 8.

Now of course it is not that simple and I don't agree with it for that reason. I have a level 6 qualification but there are many A levels such as physics and maths which I would not pass.

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New Fri 18 Mar 11 10:01 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Bromptonaut
I suspect the answer maybe 'it depends'.

The General Certifcate of Education succeded the former School Certificate during the fifties. It comprised 'Ordinary' (O) levels taken at 16 and 'Advanced' (A) levels taken at 18. Five plus O levels including English and Mathematics and two A Levels were the benchmark result of a Grammar School education and for entry to University. They were adminstered by boards, for those of us up north the Joint Matriculation Board. In early versions you either passed or failed and passes were graded by number.

In the seventies O levels were reformed with results graded A-E or U for those who's papers were truly dire. A-C corresponded to the former pass grades. They were supplemented by the Certificate of Secondary Education, pitched at those who'd gone to Secondary Modern Schools, graded 1-5 with grade 1 equivalent to a C at O level. In the West Riding English was adminstered jointly by the GCE & CSE boards mostly on continuous assessment and candidates could get anything from O level A to CSE 5.

O level and CSE were integrated into the GCSE during the eighties.

So whether your fails are shown might depend on (a) the board (b) when, int he evolution of the qualification, you took your O levels.

When I took A levels in 1978 they were graded A-E or fail. Results largely depended on exams taken in the upper 6th; lower 6th was a doss year. Nowadays they're partly modular & include a significant contribution at lower sixth level (AS)
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 18 Mar 11 at 10:01
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 10:20 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - John H
>> O level and CSE were integrated into the GCSE during the eighties.
>>

There is also the iGCSE which is favoured by independent schools.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 13:14 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Cliff Pope
>>
>>
>> So whether your fails are shown might depend on (a) the board (b) when, int
>> he evolution of the qualification, you took your O levels.
>>
>>
>>

I think that must be right.
I took 9 O-levels in 1966 and passed them all. The certificate does not mention grades - I had to ask for them separately from the school.

Grades 1-6 were passes, 7-9 were fails, U meant utter abysmal fail.

That was the Oxford & Cambridge board




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New Fri 18 Mar 11 13:20 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Fenlander
My 1970s O-levels are just described as passes on the cert but the A-levels from 2yrs later have the grades shown (Oxford board).

My daughter has passed some early GCSEs recently and all we have seen so far is a computer printout.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 13:35 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Mapmaker
GCEs do exist still.

A levels are the Advanced part of GCE. The Ordinary part (O levels) has been superseded by GCSEs.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 14:31 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Cliff Pope
S -levels seem to have been downgraded since my day.
In 1968 I took 3 A-levels, and it was standard then to take the best 2 at the higher S-level.
A levels were A, B,C = passes, D and E were think counted as the equivalent as O-level passes, and F was fail.
S levels were only 1 and 2, or fail.

But now A/S levels appear to be a kind of pre A level.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 14:39 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Bromptonaut
Glad you mentioned the original S (Special?) papers Cliff; I thought my mind was playing tricks.

Nowadays AS is the first part of the A level course taken in the lower 6th. Can be a subject qualification in its own right or rolled up with further work in upper 6th as a full A level. In my kids school it's common to start 5 or 6 subjects at A2 and drop one or two entering upper 6th. Daughter dropped french and Biology but continues with History, Economics & English plus General Studies picked up as a one year course in U6.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 18:16 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - RattleandSmoke
AS levels are just for the first year. A lot of people fail them and therefore don't sit A levels, only A level results are recorded when the press print the results and this is one reason the pass levels have increased so much.

In the old days students had to wait two years to find out they are crap, now they only need to wait a few months to fail.

No universities will accept AS levels on their own but with A levels they can help. I think my sister has four A levels and one AS level, so that is counted as four and a half.

To gain an A level you must pass the AS and A2 exams.
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New Sat 19 Mar 11 09:24 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - L'escargot
>> The General Certifcate of Education succeded the former School Certificate during the fifties. It comprised
>> 'Ordinary' (O) levels taken at 16 and 'Advanced' (A) levels taken at 18.

We took GCE O level at 15 and A level at 17 to enable us to take Scolarship Level at 18. As I remember, passes at Scholarship Level were required for entry to certain universities ~ Oxford and Cambridge spring to mind.
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New Sat 19 Mar 11 17:35 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - Cliff Pope
>> >> >>
>> We took GCE O level at 15 and A level at 17 to enable us
>> to take Scolarship Level at 18. As I remember, passes at Scholarship Level were required
>> for entry to certain universities ~ Oxford and Cambridge spring to mind.
>>

We took A and S at the same time.
Oxford and Cambridge then (and possibly still do?) had their own entrance exams as well, but would award entrances on the basis of either, or sometimes just interview alone without any qualifications.
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 22:12 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - PhilW
" If a pupil sits GCE A levels these days, and passes some subjects but fails at least one, do the fails appear on the certificate? "
Simple answer to this (I think) is that there is no such thing as a "fail" at A, AS or GCSE these days. Students are awarded a grade which appears on the certificate (hence the photos every year in the paper of attractive young ladies , never boys!, celebrating their success in achieving the grades necessary for Uni entrance). Most exams are graded A to E with U (ungraded because mark is so low). There is no official fail, though Universities say that A to C at GCSE is a "pass" and A to E at A or AS is a "pass" for entrance requirements. If you look in local papers for exam success at schools they will list all candidates and subjects where the students achieved above Grade U. Sometimes the paper will asterisk a student/subject who achieves A* at GCSE or A at A level (I think A* at A level was introduced last year to identify outstanding students.
Sorry, did I say "simple answer"????
Grade U for conciseness
Phil
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11012369
www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/aug/19/a-level-results-2010
and , of course how could I not quote
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1304345/A-level-results-2010-Students-told-lower-sights-uni-scramble-begins.html
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 22:41 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - tyro
"Simple answer to this (I think) is that there is no such thing as a "fail" at A, AS or GCSE these days. Students are awarded a grade which appears on the certificate . . . Most exams are graded A to E with U (ungraded because mark is so low). "

So does that mean that a U at A Level does not appear on a certificiate - only grades A to E? Because Rattle (above) seems to be saying otherwise.
Last edited by: tyro on Fri 18 Mar 11 at 22:42
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 23:10 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - RattleandSmoke
It is nearly ten years since I have last studied anything at that level but as far as I remember you get a results slip from each exam board. If you fail it will be a U and you won't get a certificate.

I don't even know where any of my certificates are apart from my degree. It is too long ago for anybody to really care.

Never once been asked to reproduce them but oddly when I applied for my car loan they did asked what qualifications I have and even more strangely they wanted to know exactly which building I studied in.

I can only imagine it is because I am self employed and had no accounts verified by an accountant.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Fri 18 Mar 11 at 23:11
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New Fri 18 Mar 11 23:30 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - PhilW
As far as I remember, U does appear.
The certificate given to students has a list of the subjects and the grade achieved. (Students may have several certificates because they might take, say, Geography with O&C Board, English with AQA and History with Edexcel) If you get "U" as a grade it is shown even though it stands for ungraded! Otherwise how would student know how they had done? Blank space could indicate an omission on exam board's part, lack of certificate could be that it has been "lost" by board or school, so all subjects taken and grades are shown. I am pretty certain - but will stand correction if someone knows otherwise!
Last edited by: PhilW on Fri 18 Mar 11 at 23:32
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New Mon 21 Mar 11 10:35 
 Are fails noted on GCE certificates? - tyro
" If you get "U" as a grade it is shown even though it stands for ungraded! Otherwise how would student know how they had done? "

In Scotland these days, there is a note that comes with the certificate that tells of any fails. The fails, however, are not mentioned on the certificate.
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