I know nuddings about this subject other than I have to pay up twice a year to the executors of the original landowner. Our maison is 86 yrs old.
What jogged the old brain into action was that a letter arrived today informing us that the rentcharge has been sold and a note from the new owner introducing himself...someone in Cornwall,,,( not you, is it, Doggy ? )
It's only £6 a year but it got me thinking that I ought to enquire about buying it.
Any legal beagles here tell me the ins and outs and likely cost. I will get a local solicitor to do it as we also need to re-write our wills.
These things have a habit of creeping up on you when you put them on the back burner !
Ted
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Ted,
Freehold property but subject to a rentcharge? They were an occasional trustee investment many years ago and one office I worked in used to have to collect them on behalf of the trusts we adminstered. The property guy in the place gave me a run down on the history and stuff as part of my training but (a) it was donks ago and I've probably forgotten some of the important bits and (b) Gov have almost certainly monkeyed around with the rules inthe interim.
I'll scratch my head a bit more and post later unless PU or another lawyer/expert can say more first.
IIRC sed to be possible to apply to a part of the Housing Ministry (Bristol way) for a figure to discharge but I've no idea if that's still the case.
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A distant relation of mine collected these things which I believe are auctioned occasionally.
They make very little money because the return is almost always tiny.
He died, leaving a great deal of work for the executor of his will who wrote to all the 'leaseholders' trying to persuade them to take on the ground rent themselves.
There is some sort of ground rent on Iffy Towers which has not been collected in years.
When I bought the place, the solicitor made the seller accept a reduction of six years' worth - under £30.
Apparently, that is the most 'back rent' that can be demanded from me if someone does pop up and ask for payment.
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Can't wait for the day we suddenly discover we have a Chancel repair liability. Seems it can happen to almost anyone if you're very unlucky. Never heard of it when we bought this place but apparently it's common to check it now.
Wikipedia, he say:
Although very rarely used or invoked, the liabilty of landowners was brought to the fore in 2003 when Andrew and Gail Wallbank received a demand for £100,000 pounds to fund repairs of a local church. After a protacted legal battle, the Law Lords found in favour of the parish council, leaving the Wallbanks with a £350,000 bill after legal costs[1].
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On one of the last sales we handled (2007-8 I think) the buyers solicitor insisted we pay an insurance to cover the buyer against any such future claim for chancel repair.
We resisted gently then caved in as there were bigger fish to fry in other areas.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 9 Mar 11 at 18:42
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>> After a protacted legal battle, the Law Lords found in
>> favour of the parish council, leaving the Wallbanks with a £350,000 bill after legal costs[1].
How very Christian of them. Send someone into poverty in order to fix their building. I hope they can't sleep at night, and I hope their worst imaginings of Hell become reality for them.
What an absolute shower.
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Ted, how long is the lease and how much remains? The last place I owned was on a 999 year lease with about 950 left to go. The ground rent was so small it was only collected every few years. At some point it is gong to become pointless collecting it.
On the other hand I was looking at some with only the remainder of a 99 year lease.
Minor pain, you are supposed to get leaseholders written permission for any extension. Some solicitors will be a pain if you don't have this when you come to sell.
Good luck,
John
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AFAIK "ground rent" is a northern/north west thing.
At £6 per year it's really not worth the expense or bother of trying to buy it out (IMHO).
(how many hundreds in fees? it would be a lot of years worth.)
The business of checking for "chancel repairs" has come to the fore recently, and is now included in "searches" because somebody got _really_ stung.
I'm sure google would reveal thee minute details
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So is this leasehold, ground rent or something else? Just curious.
Yup, I'd never heard of it before I arrived in NW.
John
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>>someone in Cornwall,,,( not you, is it, Doggy ? )<<
Nah, if it was me I'd treble the rent being y'all Northerners :)
But, being you're a grockle I'd settle for a gottle of geer now n' again.
Does the name Charles Windsor appear on the deed!
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In Scotland it is call feuduty - I was £20 / year but bought it out for about £200 25 years ago. Filled in a form and sent off the cheque - deed done, no lawyer needed.
When a house is due to pay feuduty and is sold then the feu is redeemed by the selling lawyer.
39 years ago £20 was enough to buy food for my wife and myself for 3-4 weeks.
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Our last house was freehold with a chief rent charge. This one would have chief rent to pay but someone previously bought it. I think these chief rents were to vanish soon though.
Ted is yours leasehold or freehold and therefore ground rent or chief rent?
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Thanks for all replies. Been away from my post for the evening. Back on duty now.
Dog....not HRH but a guy called Sparrow with an address in Paul, Penzance.
Not sure of how long the lease is, I'll have to check the deeds.
I have always seen it referred to as Freehold with a ground rent but the new invoice only calls it a rent charge.
I noticed there's a box to tick when you send the dosh if you want details of how to buy.
I'll tick that and see what comes back. I understand the law entitles you to buy but I haven't a clue of costs involved.
Ted
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Ted
If it's freehold with a rent to pay then it is most likely chief rent. Most common in the NW I think.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Rent
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Interesting, Rob.
If the charge will be extinguished in 2037 then I would think it would cost no more than 26yrs X £6 to purchase.......£156. But subject to the Gov formula in any case.
Ted
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>>Dog....not HRH but a guy called Sparrow with an address in Paul, Penzance<<
Got a few bob then.
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Something else cropped up this morning.
I went into the bank to try and get a loan to pay the £3....I was not successful !
I got chatting to the blonde, 50 something single lady on the advice desk about these rents.
She told me that, for some reason unknown to her, she was always late in paying. About £4 a year. This last time she got a reminder with a late payment ' fine ' of £70.
I had a think about it and said I'd email her later.
Surely this charge they are trying to levy is just the same as a private parking charge.
It's a civil tort and they are not allowed to claim a penalty.
County Court action would only result in being awarded the £4. Or is there something diferent about rentcharges........I don't see why there should be.
Anyway, she hasn't paid the 'fine ' yet and has no intention of doing so atm. I'm going to email her the bumff on private parking later.
Any thoughts, I've never been threatened but I think I've always paid virtually by return.
( Also a first class excuse to get her email address as well ! )
Ted
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....It's a civil tort and they are not allowed to claim a penalty...
I agree.
The debtor could be held responsible for any loss, but that would seem to be limited to the cost of sending a reminder letter.
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An interesting turn (and good luck with the blonde at the bank!). I was going to suggest that, at some point, it will become uneconomic to collect. Also, there is no disadvantage in allowing it to lapse unlike with a leasehold of, say, 99 years. So just keep paying until they can't be bothered to collect. Alternatively you might just not pay as the cost of chasing you will far exceed any possible return, though you seem to have come to this conclusion ahead of me.
This is as good as Iffy's motorway service station parking, do keep us informed! :-)
John
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Iffy's posts interesting ? Wow, someone who actually reads them !
Only kidding, R.
I sent off my £3 today and ticked the box requesting information about buying..
On the basis that the rentcharge has a total value now of £153, I wonder what he paid for it.
I would guess not very much and he's hoping to make some sort of profit from sales rather than collections.
Interesting to see what comes back in the old Royal Snail...I'll keep posting.
I just feel a little uncomfortable with some stranger having an interest in my property.
Ted
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Posted off my £3 and got a very prompt and pleasant reply yesterday from the leaseholder.
I'm being offered the purchase of the rentcharge at £158 all in, including a Certificate of Redemtion.
That represents a couple of quid more than he would be able to charge me until 2037.
A few boxes to fill in, full names, etc and send the form back with a cheque...simples.
I expect I could haggle, but I really can't be bothered over that amount.
I suppose he's bought these rentcharges fairly cheaply with the hope of making a chunk of money out of a lot of them......that's business, suits me. Saves both of us paperwork/stamps/etc in the future.
Gonna sort it this weekend.
Ted
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I'd have thought redemption would cost a lot more than £158. :)
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>>
>> I'd have thought redemption would cost a lot more than £158. :)
>>
>>
>>
It can cost you the earth if you leave it to the last minute, but if you start seeking redemption when young then the GL usually gives you a better price.
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Cliff, it depends if it's leasehold or freehold (with a chief rent). I suspect Ted's is chief rent.
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>> Cliff, it depends if it's leasehold or freehold (with a chief rent). I suspect Ted's
>> is chief rent.
I think that's explicit above.
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>> >> Does the name Charles Windsor appear on the deed!
>>
Doesn't he call himself Charles Wales now?
WOS
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>>Doesn't he call himself Charles Wales now?<<
Still as nutty as a Battenberg!
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Ground rent. - Bromptonaut
