A friend of mine is becoming increasingly fed up with working 90/100 hour weeks in the sales field, and not being recognised for it by management. He has worked for many years in sales, and month after month achieves almost double the sales of his colleagues elsewhere in the UK.
He is trying to summon up the courage of leaving a salaried job, company car, phone, laptop, medical insurance etc and go it alone, regain his life and only work 60 hours a week.
Obviosly his commission will depend of the value of the product being sold, but presumably all his business overheads such as running a car, where he expects to continue driving 40k miles pa, worktools such as phone & laptop, can be offset against tax? He has 15+ years of contacts in sales, and I think increasing middle age and pressure of work is wearing him down. I am amazed he receives no financial bonuses for constantly exceeding targets and being so conscientious.
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Sounds like the first thing to do is to have a chat with his line manager about his concerns, perhaps allude to thinking about leaving, and see if his success is recognised to the extent that his concerns are addressed.
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If over-achievement isn't recognised then why continue to do it? I'd do as Cheddar suggests, if nothing then happens then work a sane number of hours per week and achieve the same sales level as the other folk.
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Please may we have a hint as to what field of endeavour your friend is in? Are we talking high presure/high profit stuff like double glazing or some less pressured and more routine?
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>> WHAT is a line manager?
>>
The boss, in one dimension of the corporate matrix that many of us corporate serfs work(ed) in.
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>> presumably all his business overheads such as running a car, where he expects to continue driving 40k miles pa, worktools such as phone & laptop, can be offset against tax? <<
Yes, although not work clothing from memory ( I pay an accountant to do the thinking ). I know my accountant claims for a running costs of my home office and depreciation on assets aswell as the obvious costs.
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He should stop working those long hours. They're illegal anyway! If he's doing double the hours of colleagues then that would explain double the sales... He should cut them back to a max of 40 ish and stop playing the martyr.
He could just mention to the line manager that because he's not getting extra reward for exceeding targets he'll only be hitting them from now on. No point slaving your guts out without thanks. Only a fool does that.
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>>> regain his life and only work 60 hours a week.
I'd call 35hrs max regaining your life!
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I aim for 30 hours. Its almost semi-retirement, but its so relaxing to have time to do stuff.
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>>aim for 30 hours. Its almost semi-retirement, but its so relaxing to have time to do stuff.<<
What makes you think that after retirement that you will have time to do stuff? :)
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Cashflow WILL be a problem if he has to finance his deals himself.
It depends what sort of an agency and what sort of equipment he is selling.
If he goes it on his own and is selling a product to Company B , he first of all has to buy from Company A.
Has he got the financial backing to do that?
What sort of turnover is he expecting to achieve?
Are the companies with whom he deals as an employee willing to deal with him as an independant agent?
Is he willing to wait months to be paid whilst having to pay in advance himself because he cannot get credit?
Please note that I speak from experience as this is what I do , the company which I manage in the UK is an agency buying and selling in the field of military aviation , oil and petrochem. believe me it is not easy to set up such agreements .
He may even find that his employers can specifically prevent him approaching their clients .
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>> Are the companies with whom he deals as an employee willing to deal with him
>> as an independant agent?
>>
I'd be checking that there isn't a 'no poaching of clients' clause in my current employment contract as well.
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>> He may even find that his employers can specifically prevent him approaching their clients .
>>
And so they should.
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Work for yourself, or find a job in the public sector. The Police seem to do well in overtime earnings.
If you can't, then be prepared to be exploited by private employers. They are in business to screw their employees.
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>>>Work for yourself, or find a job in the public sector.
Not such a cushy number across the board any more with the cuts starting to grip. From my current job seeking seems teaching is the no.1 and care industry the no.2 though.
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>> Not such a cushy number across the board any more with the cuts starting to
>> grip.
>>
I know, and the jobs aren't going to be there to be so easily found.
But even with the cuts, if you can find that elusive job in the public sector, the working t&c are far far better overall (pensions, redundancy, working hours, overtime, flexitime, holidays, sickness, paternity/maternity leave) than in the private sector.
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>>> if you can find that elusive job in the public sector, the working t&c are far far better overall (pensions, redundancy, working hours, overtime, flexitime, holidays, sickness, paternity/maternity leave) than in the private sector.
From experience of those near to me who are involved with such things you are right of course.... however with the exception of teachers the middle level jobs are not that well paid... it is the overall package you need to look at.
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>>But even with the cuts, if you can find that elusive job in the public sector, the working t&c are far far better overall (pensions, redundancy, working hours, overtime, flexitime, holidays, sickness, paternity/maternity leave) than in the private sector.>>
Which is precisely what gets up the noses of most people...:-)
It's the private sector that provides the wealth for such cushy numbers.
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>>>Which is precisely what gets up the noses of most people...:-) t's the private sector that provides the wealth for such cushy numbers.
Well the answer is obvious... and you already know what I'm going to say... anyone who feels hard done by in their private sector job is welcome to go for a public sector job for a few years and see if it suits.
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>> Well the answer is obvious... and you already know what I'm going to say... anyone
>> who feels hard done by in their private sector job is welcome to go for
>> a public sector job for a few years and see if it suits.
Really? Could you really milk the system by drawing a salary to be a gender-realignment officer for your local council 10am -4pm Monday to Thursday, 10.30 to 1pm on Fridays including gold-plated pension? Or working for some quango? Could you face your friends afterwards? I don't think I could.
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If the job is offered, the hours are stated and the pension offsets the low pay then you might. There are many people who should be ashamed for their *take* in private industry too.
It is far too simplistic to say public=bad private=good.
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Job needing... Substantial management experience of operating at a senior level in a complex multidisciplinary organisation with a multi-million pound turnover.
Pay sounds about right... no point in taking a stress job at senior level for £10/hr.
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To echo what others have said, why bother working twice as many hours as you need to in order to sell twice as much stuff as you need to - and then moan you have no life.
I don't really have any sympathy for you[r friend], OP
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 8 Mar 11 at 11:49
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I've just received an email this morning, in error I think because I am racking my brain and memory to recognise any of the names, regarding someone I "know" who has just dropped down dead aged 59.
90/100 hours? 60 hours? Forget it.
John
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blokes working too many hours because he isnt that good at his job or he would be rewarded better
sometimes there are people who are in sales that batter people to get their targets
suggest friend reassess his life as already said before he kills himself trying to defend the undefendable
maybe start with asking himself what he really wants from life
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90 to 100 hous a week, say a six day week that's 16 hours per day, I would suggest that your friend would be too tired to do any job properly or be safe to drive 40k miles a year.
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>> A friend of mine is becoming increasingly fed up with working 90/100 hour weeks in
>> the sales field, and not being recognised for it by management. He has worked for
>> many years in sales, and month after month achieves almost double the sales of his
>> colleagues elsewhere in the UK.
Assuming he is selling twice as much as the other guys I would assume he is earning double the commission of the others*. Thats hardly not being recognised.
To be honest, if he was that good would he not have been made a sales manager by now?
*unless of course commission is capped, in which case you work till you reach your commission cap then stop.
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Salaried. Equal salary to all his colleagues. No commission. 5.5 days a week. Not even a Xmas bonus.
Bonkers.
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>> Salaried. Equal salary to all his colleagues. No commission. 5.5 days a week. Not even
>> a Xmas bonus.
>> Bonkers.
As you say, Bonkers.
Never known a salesman to work on flat salary.
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Working as an agent - Hard Cheese
