hise...?
I actually thought they have done a lot of wonderful things and have really made a difference to the sucess of northern cities by making them so much closer to London in terms of travel times.
I have heared rumours that they won't win the next franchise? I know a few people work in the train industry on here is this rumour true?
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Don't know if it's true, but certainly Virgin provides some staggeringly quick journey times between London and Liverpool.
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The same from Manchester. The last time I did it was 1 minute 59 seconds, a full 8 minutes quicker than advertised!
I would hate for it to be run 100% by Stagecoach (at the moment it is just 50% SC) or even worse Arriva who every single train I travel on with them is late.
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Remind me to keep you off our trains, Rattle... I can't have a jinx like you on board...
The only reason (DB Arriva) Crosscountry trains are late into Manchester from Brum is because we get held up for late running Pendos at Stone!
Back to your OP, I doubt it... DB, SNCF, First and several other big players will be bidding as well... Despite what some of the press think, the WCML is the money spinner, not the ECML, so others will want it badly, especially DB...
BTW I think Stagecoach have a 49% share, Virgin retain the controlling majority...
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 09:42
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Yes, Deutsche Bahn AG have designs on trying to control all of Europes railways.
However, I suspect that like Deutsche Bundespost trying to take over the worlds postal, distribution and courier services, they may well unravel.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 09:50
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My comment about Arriva is probably a bit unfair as I am moaning about ten years of train travel on many franchises which no longer exist.
I find XTC to be quite reliable actually although I don't often use it these days.
I find the Arriva Wales service from the North West of England to be a bit of a joke but that is more due to lack of infrastructure. How can it take nearly as long to get to Conwy which is just down the road as it does to London?
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Serco ,Abeillio who own Northern rail had heard they was making a play but rumours in the rail industry are rife. :-)
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>> The only reason (DB Arriva) Crosscountry trains are late into Manchester from Brum is because
>> we get held up for late running Pendos at Stone!
>>
In event of disruption Virgin seem to have priority access to the fast lines. This means London Midland's services are messed up far longer than they should be!!
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I understood "government backed" or national monopoly rail services were frowned upon by the EEC. Hence they should be banned from making bids.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 10:38
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No they aren't, at least not when bidding in other Countries... The rest of the EU has taken their time in implementing "privatisation" of the railways, realizing what could happen if they rushed into it like we did... In Germany they've split off a lot of branch lines and some of the freight side of things... And made DB a large company that can bid for other franchises elsewhere... Take over of the rest of the European Rail Network seems to be their plan!
Though to be fair to them, Britain's bets mainland franchise, Chiltern, is run by them, so it may not be a bad thing!!
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 10:44
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They bought Chiltern when it was already a well run franchise I think.
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2008, previously owned by Laing Rail... They've managed to get the franchise extended and done a fair amount of investment since as well... Though how much of that is down to the previous owners I'm not sure!
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 12:29
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>> 2008, previously owned by Laing Rail... They've managed to get the franchise extended and done
>> a fair amount of investment since as well... Though how much of that is down
>> to the previous owners I'm not sure!
Chiltern have undoubtedly done a fantastic job on the Marylebone network under both Laing and DB. They did however have a couple of advantages. First of all, following the defeat of plans to close Marylebone BR funded a 'total route modernisation' New trains & signaling plus a fair amount of track work. Secondly the line is pretty well self contained, at least as far as Aynho Junction, so Chiltern have capacity and timetabling flexibility not available on other London mainlines. They also serve a growing and prosperous community along the edge of the Thames corridor.
Having said all that the first Evergreen modernisation, the current Evergreen 2 and the Oxford Chord were all funded and developed under the Chiltern management and Shooter is undoubtedly one of our top railwaymen.
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I'm not on about LM services, but XC Express services from Bristol and Bournemouth... Believe me, despite us being Class 1 Expresses just like theirs its us who get held despite us being on time!!
Its been a sore point for many years in XC, that we get badly "regulated" all over the place... In fact our delay statistics show that only 11% are down to us (broken train, staff problems, etc), 35% is other TOCs and the rest Network Rail (could be infrastructure, but a lot is bad regulation of other TOCs late runners)...
I then have to explain why Mr and Mrs Smith have missed their connection further up the line... most frustrating! ;-)
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For those that don't know several minutes of delays are charged to that opperator by Network Rail and just 10 mins is costly.
I can get away with 10 mins in the stations but anymore there screaming for it to be shifted.
Out on the main line failures then the cash wacks up & to get it moved as fast as you can is priority but within elf and safety.
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>> I'm not on about LM services, but XC Express services from Bristol and Bournemouth
I realised you were in a different part of the railway. My point was that the same issue (everyone waits for VWC) arises between Euston and Milton Keynes.
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At least Rattle gets a good service, though! ;-)
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I remember it causing major problems when they introduced another train to make them every 20 minutes. Local services into Cheshire suffered as a result.
I am not really a fan of HS2 because I believe the money should be spent in towns and cities instead making local public transport far better but at least HS2 will free up the WC and EC lines for more local traffic.
Just out of interest if I missed a connection due to a delay and then had to pay full price for a ticket who is liable?
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>> Just out of interest if I missed a connection due to a delay and then
>> had to pay full price for a ticket who is liable?
Interesting to see what hobby says on that point. The rail industry, presumably via ATOC, have published guidance that says they'll take you on the next available service. However, when I arrived at Euston on 21 December after being dealyed by the Eurostar & snow problems I was told 'yesterday's' ticket home was void and had to purchase a new one
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You're apparently fine if you're within the UK rail system and your connection is missed. Presumably Eurostar isn't within the UK network (?!?).
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What about the warnings you get:-
"This is the 10:20 service to London Euston, if you have any other time on your ticket you must leave the train now or you will be charged £120 for a single fare...."
I really would not like to have to be in that position of explaining to the ticket inspector.
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Not an easy answer, I'm afraid! It depends on several factors... I'll give the most common variants, if anyone has any others then let me know and I'll try to answer them! I am assuming we are talking about Advance (booked train only) tickets and not Open ones...
1. Advance ticket from station A to C via B with booked connection at B. If the passenger is travelling on the booked train from A to B and that train is late and thus has to catch a later train from B to C then the ticket is valid on the next available service, just no seat reservation! Get the guard on the A to B train to mark the ticket that it was late, or the station staff at B.
2. Passenger has an advance ticket from B to C and has to get from A to B by themselves... Technically if they miss the booked train at B they should buy a new ticket... However if it was a train that was late and they can prove it (get the guard on the previous train to mark the ticket they had for that journey), and the train would have made the connection if on time, many guards will 'take a view' and let them travel... however we don't have to, and if they wanted to make a claim it would against the A to B TOC, not sure how they would get on, though...
3. As 2 but passenger used Bus/Car to get to station B... New Ticket Please, it is the passengers' responsibility to make sure they are at station B on time, no fault of ours...
The thing to remember is that the reason they are sold at cheap prices and the ticket is ONLY valid on that service is so we can even out train loadings, our Marketing people check out the passenger loadings via counts we do on all our trains and tickets are sold to ensure that our busiest trains are not full of cheap tickets... Doesn't always work properly, though...
Just one other thing, all stations have booked connection times, depending on the station it can vary from 5 minutes to as much as 10 or 15 minutes... If you are in scenario 2 you need to check this...
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 18:51
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I should also have thrown this into the melting pot as well... The full ticket price on Advance tickets goes to the TOC that sells it... That means that other operators on that route do not get any income from it, so they have no need to let the ticket holder travel on their trains... It would be like buying insurance from company A and expecting B to honour any claim...
When there are major disruptions you usually find that we agree between us to allow people to travel on any service, but otherwise any late running person in situations 1 and 2 can only travel on the next service provided by the TOC the ticket is booked on...
You did ask!!
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 3 Mar 11 at 19:11
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What about this scenario.
A passenger is traveling from Yorkshire to Southampton, Via London. They have advance booked all tickets.
They get the train to Kings Cross, which arrives on time. They then get London Underground to travel to Waterloo to Pick up their Southampton Train, but miss it because the Piccadilly Line is running very slowly.
When they finally get to Waterloo, do they need to buy another ticket?
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>> They get the train to Kings Cross, which arrives on time. They then get London
>> Underground to travel to Waterloo to Pick up their Southampton Train, but miss it because
>> the Piccadilly Line is running very slowly.
The x/london transfer is part of their journey and as long as they've followed connection times they should be OK. But it pays to check the service status displays and re-route if you can. KX to Waterloo can be done s Victoria to Euston the CX branch of the Northern to Waterloo, avoiding the Piccadilly Line (and subsequent change at Leicester Sq altogether).
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KX to Waterloo can be done s Victoria to Euston the
>> CX branch of the Northern to Waterloo, avoiding the Piccadilly Line (and subsequent change at
>> Leicester Sq altogether).
>>
Mornington Crescent! ;-)
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Mornington Crescent! ;-)
Did you straddle there, Harleyman? Not sure if thats allowed on Sundays...
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I have heared rumours that they won't win the next franchise? I know a few people work in the train industry on here is this rumour true?
>>>>>.
>>>>>>>>.definition of a rumour= founded on presumptions by people who presume
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Virgin West Coast - Will they win the next franc.. - Stuartli
