I woke up this morning with a few £100 quid missing out of my account. I have spent all day trying to chase it and it turns out my supplier has taken out the money three times instead of once.
I have now incured bank charges, had to borrow cash of my grandma and the cost of 90 minutes worth of phone calls.
My supplier is blaming the bank, the bank tells me my supplier has it. What can I legaly do?
The supplier says it is probably in a holding account and it will show in my account in a few days time, mean while a standing order has bounced.
This all happened on Saturday but the banks online banking facility has not been working so today was the first time I have noticed.
Also got a lot of other crap going and I am close to breaking down again, my mother is worried I am about to have a panic attack.
Thankfully the money my grandma has lent me has meant it hasn't been a total disaster and I have cheques to clear. What makes it worse is one of the parts was the for that damn laptop with the smashed screen.
One of my cats have also gone missing and is most likely dead (missing since Friday, 18 years old, frail, ill) and just can't cope.
Supposed to be at a job now but explained I will be a bit late in no state to drive.
Feel a bit better for letting that out :).
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>> What can I legally do?
Assuming the payment to your supplier was made by direct debit, the BANK has a legal obligation to refund you immediately.
Financial Ombudsman website: bit.ly/SJVR
"If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid."
They should also reverse all the fees and charges that this erroneous situation has incurred - which may take a couple of visits as some charges (e.g. bouncing a standing order) are immediate whilst others (e.g. exceeding overdraft limit in a calendar month) are levied some time later.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Mon 28 Feb 11 at 16:42
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Was made using my debit card. Just feel let down by my supplier even if was not their fault they could have dealt with it a lot better instead of the so what it is not our problem attitude.
I only spend £4200 a year on average with them so I am clearly not important. I might go and speak to the manager I know there, I think he will want to put things right.
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I know where 'you're coming from' effendi - nothing worse than being a service engineer IMO, in the end I threw in the towel and decided I would just work how I wanted to work - put myself first, like, for the sake of my mental wellbeing.
From then on I wouldn't get to my first job until 10am, have an hour for lunch :) and finish at 4pm but still pocket 500 smackeroonies pw in the early 90's.
You should be in an even better position than I was comrade, having no mortgage and living at home - take it easy ole chum, it just isn't worth it.
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OK. It's still worth speaking to your bank though, believe it or not they have the discretion to be flexible with charges to some degree where there's a valid reason - but only if you bring it to their attention. They don't bite, honestly.
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It was the bank which told me where the money was after 90 minutes as they are not showing up on my statement yet.
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Close to going bust :(
if you are that affected by this error then i'd say you need to look at your business very carefully.
you cant run a business without any operating cash.
not a dig just advice. get more work and make sure it pays.
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>> if you are that affected by this error then i'd say you need to look
>> at your business very carefully.
>> you cant run a business without any operating cash.
>>
>> not a dig just advice. get more work and make sure it pays.
>>
Your advice will likely be ignored. Rattle has been given tons of good advice here in the past on how to run a business.
Unfortunately, he persists in running his "business" as a charity, and uses the forum in lieu of a psychiatrist's couch. :-0
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By Rattle's age, id expect him to have a decent overdraft facility - I have £1500 on my business account and £2500 on my personal account, despite having never had as much as that in either account. I sometimes drop £100-£150 over into OD and it costs me about £5 for a month, somthing silly like that. Its a godsend - change your bank!
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To Rattle - sort out your finances, your a smart fella, act like it, even I have £100 for emergencies and I bet I earn a darn sight less than you!
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Having opened a business bank account (with HSBC) in the last few days they were fallling over themselves to offer debit & credit cards, overdraft, 18 months with no bank charges etc. so it may be worth looking at moving your account.
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There'll be a catch...there always is.........
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>> There'll be a catch...there always is.........
>>
Paying cheques in is expensive.
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I have been making a lot more money on jobs since my last post which was removed. I have not ignored the advice :).
The cash flow problem is sorted, and a lot of cheques clear tomorrow so it happened tomorrow it would not have been such a major deal.
Now just worried about getting my money back.
I have been offered a £500 overdraft on my business account but it not the answer long term.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 28 Feb 11 at 18:22
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Next course of action?
Cancel the break in Brighton, get down to some sheer hard work that weekend and turn a £78 spend into a £200 profit.
Holidays, however short are not what you need, they're what you THINK you need.
You can't afford it, end of story, I'm afraid.
Pat
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>>I have been offered a £500 overdraft on my business account but it not the answer long term.<<
Actually it is. They are for emergency cash flow problems and they avoid penalty charges when payments go out without enough money in the account.
Its not signing your life away, thousands of companies have them and the good ones use them responsibly.
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>> >>I have been offered a £500 overdraft on my business account but it not the
>> answer long term.<<
>>
>> Actually it is. They are for emergency cash flow problems and they avoid penalty charges
>> when payments go out without enough money in the account.
>> Its not signing your life away, thousands of companies have them and the good ones
>> use them responsibly.
>>
Like he said.
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Could you hook some bigger paying customers? Maybe go all out on the recruiting / sales offensive for a few weeks?
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Am working with one big company at the moment, but I am outsourcing a lot of that, still brings in some decent income for doing no work at all though, getting my first cheque next week :).
I was a bit dramatic when I made this thread because I was raving and close to smashing in the screen, now I have calmed down I have the money to keep me going and I will get my money back I just don't know when.
More worried about missing cat now.
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Rattle, not got much knowledge of the workings of the banks but surely relying on cheques is old-hat?
I would struggle to find my cheque book - do you accept cash I take it? What about cards, can you accept them?
Also, there are plenty of places now who will demand a surcharge for people paying by cheques or credit cards - how much does it cost you to process a cheque between bank charges and your time having to go to the bank?
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Most people still want to pay my cheques. I did experiment with direct bank transfers but customers didn't always do it straight away and I would end up ringing them up to remind them.
I can take credit cards via my Anroid phone but I am not sure if people would trust it and the merchant takes 2%.
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>
>>
>> I can take credit cards via my Anroid phone but I am not sure if
>> people would trust it and the merchant takes 2%.
>>
>>
>>
So raise your prices by 2.1/2%, customers won't quibble at that amount and you will be a few quid in.
More people have debit and credit cards than chequebooks now anyway, it's not some new idea that they are scared of.
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I hope the cheques are all guaranteed! What will you do when they are no more?
This minor cash flow problem shouldn't even be a problem. As you know cash flow is all. You could be a major corporation but if at the end of the month you cannot settle your bills you risk going out of business. It's lucky you don't pay any salaries!
An overdraft would give you the buffer you need - it's not quite the same as you going overdrawn in your personal account because you should have payments coming in.
After MD has messed you around maybe you can get good terms on a business account as in you get the good and pay for them within say 30 days. Plenty of time to get the payments in to cover the goods purchased. Use their mistake to gain an advantage.
Don't go and think you won't use them because of this. You already don't deal with Aria so don't end up having to use more expensive or more remote suppliers. Although Scan isn't that far and are often a lot cheaper than MD.
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Well have been looking into the full costs of petrol and and my time when going to Microdirect anyway, it takes anything from an hour to 90 minutes of my time. There is Target Components which I can open a trade account with, it is £100 minumum spend plus VAT but that won't always be a problem.
I will ask MD for an account if this gets sorted, I did sadly loose my temper a bit when the guy I spoke to at accounts was blaming the bank because the bank was insisting it was MD's fault.
I will also look into Scan.
I have used Ebuyer and used their next day delivery when I have been too busy.
I hope to continue using MD I really don't want to fall out with them. Never had a cheque bounce but then I know where they live.
I know they are always moaning about the debit card readers they have and the problem is probably with their mechant account suppliers.
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>> The cash flow problem is sorted, and a lot of cheques clear tomorrow so it
>> happened tomorrow it would not have been such a major deal.
>>
The thread title says "Close to going bust :(".
>> I was a bit dramatic when I made this thread because I was raving and close to
>> smashing in the screen,
So was this another thread after a drink binge, like your previous mega rant which you then asked to be hidden?
>> I have been offered a £500 overdraft on my business account but it not the
>> answer long term.
>>
Seems you need some basic lessons in running a business.
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Rattle, lots of good advice above ... ...
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I knew someone who ran and co-owned a business with a £1m+ turnover employing dozens of people. Their business had an overdraft facility and it was sometimes used. Nothing surprising. He's not there anymore. He's MD of a much larger company.
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You know he wont listen, he doesnt seem to know much about business at all, even less than me and Im no Bill Gates.
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WIth respect you don't know anything about what is going on. Too much is out of my control and I am not getting into it on here.
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>> Too much is out of my control and I am not getting into it on here.
Too much info. Your business should be in your control. I assume you are referring to other things like missing cats (I really hope it is safe!!!! cat person speaking here) and parents situation or the friend who rolled the car etc etc.
Your business seems to be working fine. You need to really think about how to move it forward (if you want to).
For stuff out of your control? What can you do? Have a cup of tea? But don't get stressed or ill!!!!
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But you are now a 'Will' berstuforce ;-)
No he won't listen. He could use an overdraft facility when needed to increase business - cash flow. He might even be better to use a credit account for buying parts to give time to sell them etc as part of service.
But he dod get a bigger piece of business and offloaded it to someone else. That contract might have taken a lot of time and might have been the start of bigger things. Instead he offloaded it. Better to get someone temp for the low level stuff that Rattle currently does.
Or maybe he wants to fix and break desktops and laptops forever and never earn enough to buy a house? Which I am sure is not his plan.
If I need them I have so many ideas of what I'd offer as services and solutions to people. Luckily I'm not in that position but you never know what might be round the corner. And if I could work out a business plan to do this on a Greek island I'll be off tomorrow. Well 4 years away ;-) Maybe I do have a plan.
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Thats kinda what I mean. The bleedin obvious gets overlooked, to the extent that nobody is very suprised that these things happen to him, he seems to have a mental block when it comes to common sense in business, hence alot of virtual eye rolling.
What he needs is a good woman to yank him along by his ear and give him direction and plenty of nagging :-) some men need that.
When I realised business was slowing, I diversified when I saw opportunities and Im almost back to my income from two years ago and rising. I also raised prices to cover increased fuel costs. I like my customers, but its gotta pay its way or its just messing about.
Last edited by: Wilberstuforce31 on Mon 28 Feb 11 at 23:32
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In short a competitor messed up a server install job, not the area I have enough experience in so I gave the network side of things to a friends boss, but I still look after the desktop side of things.
A good lot of what I do is actually software consulting anyway, it is not all fixing computers, that was only supposed to be a small part of what I do.
The past month has been great and when somebody sorts things out I will be able to get my finances perfectly straight. If todays disaster hadn't happened I would have been more than ok for March.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 28 Feb 11 at 23:42
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>>> The bleedin obvious gets overlooked, to the extent that nobody is very suprised that these things happen to him, he seems to have a mental block when it comes to common sense in business, hence alot of virtual eye rolling.
That's a bit rich from you Stu given your apparent lifetime associated with the car trade yet an inability to sort yourself out where cars are concerned.
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Im not a mechanic and while I have a reasonable knowledge with the oily bits, it is only what ive picked up. If you want to argue working in customer service and valeting should mean I can spot a lemon of a car, good luck with that.
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But lets be fair I am sure Iffy is now advising Apple in Steve Jobs' absence. They both use Macs. And iffy does post on Mac centric web sites offering advice on how to use Macs and software.
Sorry iffy.
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...But lets be fair I am sure Iffy is now advising Apple in Steve Jobs' absence....
'ere, you leave me out of this.
I've got no place in a thread for neurotic self-employed wasters. :)
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If you aim to soon have a few grand contingency funds you really would be sorted. Or an overdraft when all does not go to plan.
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Yep :) My aim is to get a proper unit but now is not the right time do it, I would need more cash flow.
I have put my prices up since making that thread too, it give me the confidence to it. So far it has not been an issue :).
I've seen plenty of of people try and do this business and fail. Customers don't care about hard drive replacements, they just want the solution and that is what quite a few people forget. I have seen a lot of computer shops being guilty at this.
The cat by the way is 18 years old, he was/is frail and deaf. We think he has just gone felt ill and went to sleep in a bush away from the rain and probably not woken up. We were only expecting him to live for a few more months so it is not a massive shock.
Still got the other cat who is 8 but he is suffers from breathing difficulties.
Tomorrow is a new month and hopefully I can put the last few weeks behind me.
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I think it is also unfair to compare anything to Bill Gates, he is extremely talented and has some wonderful ideas but his biggest talent was spotting a gap in the market. Even he had no idea what he was doing when he and Alan setup Microsoft.
People like him and Jobs are true one offs and very very few people in the world have what ever it is they have.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 1 Mar 11 at 00:12
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Microsoft is comical these days - they miss Mr Gates I think. Alan has long moved on and lost a lot of money since. And the buffoon is now in charge. And sadly Steve Jobs is probably battling cancer again but pancreatic cancer sufferers do not live long after treatment. Let us hope he is a survivor.
And this just means we should all live life positively for now. We don't know what is around the corner. Chill out and enjoy it. If it all goes tits up then so be it. Deal with it and move on.
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Never really been an Apple fan but I have always admired Steve Jobs and it would be a great shame if he dies. He is the only reason Apple still exists and I do wonder how strong Apple can be without him, what happens when the Iphone and Ipods become old hat?
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>> Never really been an Apple fan but I have always admired Steve Jobs and it
>> would be a great shame if he dies. He is the only reason Apple still
>> exists and I do wonder how strong Apple can be without him, what happens when
>> the Iphone and Ipods become old hat?
>>
WHEN I-stuff becomes old hat, then something else (hopefully genuinely better) will move in to replace them.
Meanwhile Apple continue making money flogging tat to the public because its easy to use and looks flashy, even though there's other stuff out there that's better.
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... its easy to use and looks flashy...
Isn't that the definition of the perfect gadget?
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>> ... I would need more cash flow.
An overdraft could help at times with cash flow. You get a sudden increase in repairs and need parts. You then have to wait for cheques to clear. A cash flow problem an overdraft might help with. Ultimately you want cash reserves.
>> Customers don't care about ....
For a customer with a good income the solution is worth money. I have no time to sort out problems etc. So a high fixed fee (an educated risk) for certain problems could be win-win.
I hope the cat turns up though. But I look after cats (Feeding etc) when on holiday too :-)
Yes tomorrow is another month - time to think of how to move the business on. I am not convinced break/fix type computer repairs (software and hardware) is a long term business. Computer related service on the other hand is different, including training.
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Laptops are the where the money is in repairs now but it all depends how much the price continues to come down.
The industry is also has a massive image problem like car garages and that is what puts some people off computer repairs. With cars you have no choice.
Get a bit upset when people say cats are not loyal, well 18 years of always coming home is loyal!
I used to be full of good ideas I just don't really know why I have become so stuck in my ways shall we say.
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>> Get a bit upset when people say cats are not loyal...
Cat's are not loyal. They control us ;-)
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My cat calender has a thought for today.....
Obviously cats are superior to dogs-cats would never deign to roll over on demand
Hope she turns up Rattle.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 1 Mar 11 at 07:52
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Having read Rattle's posts for quite a while now, it seems to me - not meant nastily- but in a spirit of helpfulness, that his first priority is to address his anxiety state and stability problems.
Perhaps a therapist might help?
Once on a level keel I think it might be easier for him to look objectively at his business plan, draw up cash-flow and budgeting figures and consider the best way for him to progress.
There is and this I know from bitter personal experience in the early 1990s, nothing worse than trying to run an under-capitalised business: to dread the arrival of the weekly bank statement and to have more sleepless nights than enough.
I made a decision to close up shop and the feeling of relief was immense. The worse part was having to make good staff redundant.
Times were hard for a good few years, pension pots were frozen, income was VERY tight, but we managed.
Rattle - sit down and THINK where you are now and where you want to be in say, five years time.
Make clear goals and plan how you will achieve them.
I sincerely wish you all the best - not luck, although that has something to do with it, but good fortune planned with clear thinking.
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Rattle. I guess you don't want an overdraft as you will just spend it - at which point you are back in the same position as before BUT you're paying fees. That's very sensible indeed.
So instead you need to get some savings. Easy. Stop spending.
Running your life so close to the bottom of your available cash is stressful, as you've just proved.
Never let your current account go below £1,000.
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I won't spent it, but if I have any capable it does get spent. It is a moral issue. What happens if I have £1k in over draft and the Fiesta needs replacing? My dad can't work without a car, I would feel obliged to use it.
That is why I don't want an overdraft until this is all sorted. My dad hopefully starts a new job soon so although it won't solve everything it will relieve the preasure from all of us.
Just an update, it is now showing on my the bank statement, my supplier is showing up once so it seems the bank does have the rest in the holding account. I will need to wait for tomorrow to see what happens but I am hoping the money will just go back in without any major hassle.
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>> What happens if I have £1k in over draft and the
>> Fiesta needs replacing? My dad can't work without a car, I would feel obliged to
>> use it.
>>
You do NOT use your business account as a personal cash drawer whatever the circumstances. It is there to fund the business short and long term, any money you or your family need should come out of personal drawings only. Myself and Mrs RR worked on that principle for twenty years, and despite some tough times never had a letter from the bank about our finances and never missed any bill payments.
If you run a business that comes first, spending money has to take a hit before you raid the firm's coffers. Do it the other way and sooner or later you will fold.
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Dogs have masters, cats have servants.
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You've all got the wrong sort of cat!
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rattle, one peice of non business advice- you are NOT anyones keeper.
whatever happens outside or inside of your home is not your responsibility.
you need to distance yourself and concentrate on business plans.
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I agree with the comments above. There's nothing wrong with helping out family in times of need if you have the means, but it should never be a permanent arrangement or a consideration in your daily financial affairs.
If you are trying to run a business, you don't need that kind of financial pressure on top of everything else. It's unreasonable.
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Living at home is a nightmare and blurs your life responsibilities. I found once you get away it is far easier to draw the line... then when real help is needed you should be better placed to respond.
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maybe you could get a full time job and use those earnings to allow you to rent a lock up and get some savings and do your computer work in the evenings.
you wouldnt need to work fulltime for someone else for more than a year maybe
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Rattle's original post tugged at my heartstrings, and I think that perhaps we should all club together to pay him the amount he's lost. What do you reckon, guys and gals?
:-D
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i'll send some if he really needs it, not for pub use though
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My car insurance is due and the washing machine is broke can i have a hand out too? :-)
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Rattle - if things really are that close then I think you need to seek an alternative revenue stream - i.e. get yourself a part time job to fund your car / lifestyle then anything you make through your business can be utlised just for the benefit of expanding it.
I cant speak for your area, but around here there are quite a few call center type jobs that offer flexible work - my partner used to work for one of the mobile networks 5pm to 10pm 4 nights a week. Gave a nice little income and didnt affect her ability to study during the day. Sounds like the sort of thing that may work for you.
Dont take this the wrong way, but from most of your posts I sense that you put blockers up and look for reasons for things to fail. I used to work with a girl who was a bit like you and we always used to say she was never happier than when she had something to be unhappy about. In short I think you need to take a more positive outlook on things or else things will always be the same.
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Thanks for the offers but I will get the money back and my grandma has lent me £100 which solved the issue with the going over drawn. Plus I got £90 cash for a job today (not all profit) and my cheques have cleared so I am now fine for the next month :).
Even managed to put some away for the ISA for my next tax bill.
The problem is never that I don't have any money, it is simply cash flow, I have money in cheques which have not cleared.
Things have been better for my dad too, his phone has been busy this week so I really hope I can get straight again in March and put the cash flow issues behind me :).
A part time job is something I have been looking into if I can find something with hours to suit, I can't do a job full time as I would not be able to provide good service for my customers.
A couple of nigh shifts which pays better in a supermarket would be ideal as I am up late at nights anyway.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 1 Mar 11 at 20:15
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>> The problem is never that I don't have any money, it is simply cash flow
I am surprised just £100 was enough to sort this temporarily. You need more cash left in the business account or an overdraft. But the latter can never be used when you want to go out or your dad's car has a problem. Same goes for the cash in the account for that matter.
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I only went over by £20 I knew I was skint but I also knew the cheques would all clear the next day and they did :). The main issue is that a bill today would have bounced. Not sure if I will get charged for going over my limit but I will be complaining to the FSA if that happens as this was the banks fault.
Taken £180 today which will also help, not all profit though but if I had that sort of turnover everyday I would be comfortable.
Broke even on the smashed screen job too :).
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 1 Mar 11 at 22:51
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What was the result on that Rats ?
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I took it to a friend who runs a similar business near Warrington and he showed me how to fit the screen. The screen cost me £58 including delivery.
The original fault was the hard drive so I replaced that over the weekend.
All fixed now :).
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Rattle, not wanting the results in public etc. But work out what you earn per hour before tax on average. Do it for yourself.
There are many on here (me included) that think you are either undercharging or not getting enough business. This latest blip should not have been an issue even if it was say a £1000 hole. All it takes is a few cheques to bounce (so don't take cheques).
I assume your pre-tax/pre-NI salary is at least £20,000pa. If not why not? And if not why bother. Don't say in public if it is/isn't.
I hope you do earn about £180/day pre-tax for services. It's possible.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 2 Mar 11 at 00:07
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>>I hope you do earn about £180/day pre-tax for services. It's possible
Are you kidding? That's 42k p.a. pure profit (with 6 weeks' holiday a year), which plus supplies would probably push him into the VAT regime.
I don't believe he could manage that sort of return. The barriers of entry into this business are too low, very low indeed. It's the sort of business that almost anybody with some common sense who can use a computer can set up in his bedroom - and there are plenty of unemployed computer science graduates (or undergraduates) out there looking for a bit of spare cash. I'd have thought though that 20k p.a. is more reasonable - and attainable.
180/day suggests six hours actual paid work at £30 p.h. I find it difficult to believe that he gets a utilisation (what with picking up, dropping off, billing, advertising etc.) of more than 50% for the times when he is working flat out. And with a customer service job like this there will always be flat spots.
Just going back to the overdraft thing, Rattle you struggle with stressful situations. So make sure you arrange your life so you don't get into them - save some money and keep it as a buffer. There are too many ways your business can become overdrawn.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 2 Mar 11 at 10:34
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Entry to market is low but it really isn't as easy as you would think. There is dealing with customers, something which has taken me a long time to learn.
You have to know the ins and outs of operating systems and be able to fix all sorts of odd problems on software you've never seen before.
£40K might be possible with a workshop in an area with no competition, if I had £10k behind me and then I could travel the country finding such a location then £40k is possible.
In the middle of Manchester when there are 10 competitors in my local area alone (just a tiny part of the city) it is very hard. If I had started out now there is no way I would have made a penny.
I am just working out ways to charge more by value added service. Since my last thread I have been making sure I make profit on parts.
I believe the computer shop next door to me has hit me hard too as they have taken some of what would have been my future customers.
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Close to going bust :( - Dave_
