I was sat having a coffee on a high street in London a few days back and, while watching the world go by, spotted a couple of community support officers walking down the street.
I could help letting my mind wander back to the good old days when you had bobbies who walked the beat everyday, and knew most people by name.
They'd say hi to Frank the greengrocer, and ask Doris how her daughter was. They'd tell little Tommy to hurry up because he was late for school and remind him to keep out of trouble and, come the end of the day, they'd make sure everywhere was locked up securely.
Then I wondered...did any of that ever really happen? Did police used to interact with the community that much? Did they have the time to walk the beat and get to know the locals?
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Did any one within living memory apart from Tory politicians ever call a policeman 'a bobby' Hear them called all sorts of things in East London as a child but never a bobby.
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My daisy roots are in the east end.
Never heard them called bobbies. Its was always mostly the Old Bill. Those who were hard enough to have done time called them "the filth"
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 25 Feb 11 at 18:00
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Coppers was a common and reasonably polite name
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Zero,
Surely Dixon of Dock Green was a Bobby.
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Of course he wasnt, he was a copper.
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>>>Then I wondered...did any of that ever really happen?
Yep... well it did in our small village during the 60/70s. The village copper knew everyone and what they were doing good or bad. Never needed to get to the evidence/paperwork stage as he'd just go and see folks telling them what he'd gleened of their activities and stuff stopped just like that.
Every single kid in the village was frightened of him.
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When I was growing up in a quiet Norfolk village in the 80's, a local retired policeman used to regularly tell people off when they'd left their doors unlocked. It never occured to me to wonder how be knew!
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Even in the eighties policemen on the beat were a common sight in London.
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...Even in the eighties policemen on the beat were a common sight in London...
I'm sure I've seen policemen checking shop doors were locked at night when I lived in south London in the early 1980s.
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>> Even in the eighties policemen on the beat were a common sight in London.
OK, my London patch is 'Mid City'. 'Legal London' or whatever you want to call it but I rarely go a day without seeing foot or mounted police, either Met or City. And this morning the BTP CSo's + one constable were doing an excellent job sorting out a couple of disruptive drunks/druggies on Euston station.
The police are still visible and active; whether there was ever a Golden Age is moot.
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In the 60s/70s every man and his dog didn't have a mobile phone. Facebook and E-bay didn't exist and Police weren't expected to be Social workers, marriage guidance councillors, surrogate parents, teachers, baby sitters, noise abatement officers, alcohol guidance experts and all the other demands that the Public now expect on top of dealing with crime.
Response shifts had dozens of Officers instead of them being deployed as Diversity teams and 'customer focus' desks. I'm sure the uniform walking around with a whistle and checking in at the Police box existed once. You'll never see it again.
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In the "old" days the beat copper was a nosey git.
"weren't expected to be Social workers, marriage guidance councillors, surrogate parents, teachers, baby sitters, noise abatement officers, alcohol guidance experts and all the other demands that the Public now expect on top of dealing with crime"
But they were all of those things, Hold a noisy party? get a copper bangin on your door telling you to STFU or else, Get drunk and beat the wife up? If she complained the abuser got a kicking. Get drunk in the street? you got hauled back to the nick and got a kicking. Lost kids they get hauled home and the old bill would threaten to have them taken in to care.
Oh yes they did all the things that society expects, but not quite in the PC way the liberals want us to to.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 25 Feb 11 at 19:47
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>> Oh yes they did all the things that society expects, but not quite in the
>> PC way the liberals want us to to.
>>
Is that a complaint or an observation Zeddo?
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Observation only.
I dont think society would tolerate the old days, even tho they worked - sort of.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 25 Feb 11 at 19:49
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But it is NEEDED. Armed of course and allowed.................
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i still miss not seeing the keystone cops on telly at xmas
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Just watch "send in the dogs" about the GMP dog unit.
Its much the same.
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At bit reluctant to post on this however.....
In my formative years I grew up in a small provincial town and at the age when you start coming home late was heartened to see local plod trying doors of shops in the High St to see they were closed.
After a while I became aware from local gossip that if a particular Sargent tried the door and it was found to be open the likelihood of goods being missing was higher than if one of the lower Plod had done so.
Said Sargent was highest ranking at local Plodshop so complaints went nowhere.
This Sargent in question went onto join the local CID and then "managed" local pubs espcially those that stayed open a little later than licencing hours allowed.
Free drinks for him and so on.
One night he was attacked and thrown through a shop window in the high street after a local shopkeeper found him, what can I say "stocktaking" for want of a better expression.
No witnesses came forward but for weeks after local gossips could give a full description of the assailants, neither did the "crime" make the local paper or go any further.
It is only that he has been dead for some 20 years that I mention this.
Good old fashioned policing, fit up the Birmingham six I say and bring back Gene Hunt
As always
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Fri 25 Feb 11 at 20:20
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We had no personal radios until the late '60s when Panda cars came in...Morris Minors in our case.
Prior to that, especially in the suburbs constables worked a points system. 4 phone boxes were designated around your beat and you worked a different way round them, starting at a different one, every shift. You could be phoned at the box or the Sergeant or Inspector knew where you should be.
On nights in the City centre, you could be contacted by the Sergeant rapping his stick on the pavement. You could reply with your staff on a handy marble wall...good resonance.
One of our duties was to check shop doors around the city several times a night but you were very much on your own with your staff, snaps and whistle for company and your cape for warmth. For the night shift, you wore a uniform which had no chrome at all, all the buttons, badges, numbers and helmet fittings were matt black. I worked alternate shifts at a Victorian sub-station, still very much in 100 year old condition.
There was a rack for office and shop keys which were kept overnight and booked in and out in a large ledger.
One officer was designated to deal with the cells, making tea, stoking the fire and a myriad other duties. he wore an blue ' overall ' jacket and was known as the Knobstick in Manchester. The station, now the police museum, had a small mortuary in the corner of the cobbled yard. In my day it was used for keeping bikes in, although we didn't use them in the city centre. There were still a few police boxes and a couple of posts where you could get through to the Information Room (999 centre ) for assistance.
As for force vehicles, of course there was the Road Patrol with the fast cars and bikes.
When you see the variety of stuff now in police ownership, you wonder how we managed. The Chief had a car, of course, an Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire, with his own driver.
There was a BMC artic with a flat trailer for carrying barriers and stuff. A horse box, a mortuary van, a breakdown truck with a hand crane, a couple of larger vans and a black caravan..mobile police station. CID had small cars...Morris 1100s and the like.
There were black divisional vans, Inspectors shared Morris Minors and there were the Velocettes, all having radios. All cars and vans were BMC.
We weren't marched out onto the streets, like you see in The Blue Lamp, that had long gone, but we paraded for duty and had to hold up our ' appointments ' when the Sergeant said......Staff, snaps, whistle and notebook.
Interesting days, the end of the black Wolseley 6/110s with bells and the introduction of new things,,,white cars, sirens, blue beacons !
The Blue Lamp was probably the first view of how the Police really worked up to the sixties.
Sorry to go on a bit.
Ted
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>> Sorry to go on a bit.
>>
>> Ted
>>
Pleased you did. Write a book!
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>> >> Sorry to go on a bit.
>> >>
>> >> Ted
>> >>
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>> Pleased you did. Write a book!
>>
+1
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Yup, it would make fascinating reading.
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An ex Met officer, Harry Cole, wrote a series covering his service from the fifties to the eighties. Rather in the same style as James Heriott, mostly funny but withe odd tragic tale of children & accidents.
Same comms procedures as Ted mentions above, and no too fond of the original 'walkie-talkie' radios either.
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One of the best autobiographies that I have read was 'In The Office Of Constable', Sir Robert Mark's account of his time as head of the Met in the 70's. Highly recommended.
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One night in my late teens, I was driving back late at night from a party with two friends in the car. I was sober, my car was legal and I wasn't speeding. However, we were pulled over by a police patrol car, ordered out of the car and marched up a dark alley where they proceeded to kick the living fertiliser out of us while swearing and otherwise abusing us.
We had done nothing to provoke this attack other than to have happened to drive through a small town where, unknown to us, there had been a stabbing earlier. Someone had noticed our car near the scene and reported us as having potentially been involved. We knew nothing about it and couldn't understand why we were being beaten up. Eventually though, the police got a radio call to tell them the real criminals had been arrested in the next town.
They stopped hitting us at that point but the verbal abuse continued and we were told in no uncertain terms not to try to make trouble for them or we would be marked out for special treatment next time we were seen.
A fairly frightening experience for three normal lads with no previous experience of such things.
Yeah, good old fashioned coppers. Salt of the earth eh?
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I saw an apparently unprovoked attack on a teenager by the local bobby once when a teenager myself (1970s). Myself and this other guy were the only ones waiting on a remote tube station late on a Sat night for last train. Copper strolled onto platform and deliberately walked into the other guy, then started abusing and hitting him. I'm sorry to say I don't know how it ended as I jumped on the train and left them to it. There could well have been some "background" I didn't know, and it wasn't a particularly vicious attack, but it rather surprised me at the time, coming from a law-abiding police-respecting background.
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>> Did any one within living memory apart from Tory politicians ever call a policeman 'a
>> bobby' ............
Bobby is a polite and respectful nickname. Nowadays, most people who use a nickname for the police tend to be derogatory about them. Respect for the police has generally disappeared.
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Bobby is a polite and respectful nickname
It may be but but has anyone ever used it this side of 1930?
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>> Bobby is a polite and respectful nickname
>>
>> It may be but but has anyone ever used it this side of 1930?
Well, you'll understand that I used it primarily because I was harking back to the "good old days" but, yes, a quick search suggest that it is still used, even by "serious" journalists
www.economist.com/node/18229516?story_id=18229516
Maybe you're just too cool CG ;)
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Ver Frogs calls ver fiwf 'bobbeeees' innit? Only when vey've got veir elmets on vo.
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Yes its used by journalists and politicians but does anyone use the word in normal conversational English? Does the mugger say "watch out a bobby?'' (Yes I know the chance of there being one is vanishingly small!)
Its one of those curious words that seems to exist only in the press, usually in the form "bobbies on the beat"
Or perhaps I am too cool :-)
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 26 Feb 11 at 17:45
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It's more respectful and approving than most slang words for the police. But probably just meant policeman when first used... doesn't the word derive from the name of Sir Robert Peel, who got the Bow Street Runners and local crime militias under the rule of law and gave them those helmets? Or perhaps the helmets came a bit later.
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Agree about the derivation, similar to "Peeler" but still am curious as to whether anyone now uses the term.
Original uniform of Peel's police force was blue tail coats and top hats. Deliberately chosen so not to appear to be a military force.
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Never heard the term 'peeler' on the mainland. Have heard it in Northern Ireland though.
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Here's another one from Northern Ireland, Armel.
Motorcycle cops were known as Durangos.....beat that !
Ted
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>> Durangos.....beat that !
I can't. What's the derivation I wonder... something to do with a cowboy movie I bet.
In one of Ousmane Sembene's films - Xala I think - the police cars all carry the word CERBERES (Cerberuses, a reference to the guard dogs of the underworld in Greek mythology).
If you like a really interesting movie and aren't fazed by subtitles I would recommend any film by Ousmane Sembene, who is Senegalese. He's utterly brilliant.
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>> Or perhaps I am too cool :-)
A boi from Narrich? cool?
nah
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Top hat, rattle and a cutlass at first, AC.
Oops, sounds like one of BigBad's fantasies !
Ted
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Hold you hard ther bor, I int from Norridge.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 26 Feb 11 at 18:12
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I'm sure I use 'bobby' occasionally. I certainly never use 'filth' or 'old Bill'.
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I have never heard it used in conversation, rarely on screen, and only seen it in print.
One wonders what ground journos have their ear to.
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Is it in Liverpool they call them the busies?
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I've heard young lads in the North East use the term 'busies'.
The other is 'black b*****d', a reference to the uniform, rather than skin colour.
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Years back I was teaching an Asian lady to drive and she referred to them as "Uncles". Asian youngsters used to liken them to an uncle, always likely to appear from nowhere when you were up to no good.
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night
because rough men stand ready
to do violence on their behalf."
It was ever so - nothing has changed.
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>> I wonder how many tests she took?
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>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360719/The-L-test-fraudsters-Number-stand-ins-paid-2-000-driving-exam-rises-400-cent-seven-years.html
>>
>>
Just the one in this case.
Impersonators have been a known but little publicised problem for years. Barking test centre always had more than their fair share of them.
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Don't think I'd be much good as an impersonator because I would probably struggle to pass the test a second time.
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Iffy,
What has this link got to do with the RR's posting ?
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 27 Feb 11 at 14:45
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...What has this link got to do with the RR's posting ?...
Driving test impersonation is usually done by foreign nationals.
Quoting:
"The vast majority of offenders are foreign nationals, with Asians, Africans and Eastern Europeans among the most prolific."
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360719/The-L-test-fraudsters-Number-stand-ins-paid-2-000-driving-exam-rises-400-cent-seven-years.html#ixzz1FAlpcpsZ
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Iffy,
Gotcha!!!
Why on earth would an 'Asian lady' be synonymous with a foreign national?
worked with dozens of asian ladies over the years, the vast majority born in London, Leicester or wherever.
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...worked with dozens of asian ladies over the years, the vast majority born in London, Leicester or wherever...
So what?
All the authorities are saying is driving test impersonation is carried out mostly by people of Asian, African and Eastern European origin.
Who cares where those people are born?
It likely many of the Asians will be born in this country, more likely the Africans and Eastern Europeans will not be.
But it's irrelevant, we are talking about driving test fraud, not birthplace fraud.
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Still a major topic drift....this thread was just getting going on a totally unrelated topic.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 27 Feb 11 at 15:32
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>> It likely many of the Asians will be born in this country, more likely the
>> Africans and Eastern Europeans will not be.
>>
>> But it's irrelevant, we are talking about driving test fraud, not birthplace fraud.
Massive topic drift and perhaps my PC antennae are over sensitive but:-
The Mail report refers clearly to the vast majority of offenders being foreign nationals and goes on to say Asians, Africans and Eastern Europeans as being the most prolific. I don't think we should be bracketing Asian housewives in Leicester or Wembley as foreign nationals.
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1. An test impersonator is probably foreign
2. Here is a foreign person.
3. "That person is probably a test impersonator"
is an erroneous conclusion based on a logical false premise.
Which is what PU is probably getting at, as you no doubt know.
You are being mischievous I think.
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>> Which is what PU is probably getting at, as you no doubt know.
I think PU is thinking that driving test impersonation is a large leap from bobbies on the beat in the 60's
But hey, I have seen bigger swings on here than that!
>> You are being mischievous I think.
Nooooo! Surely not!
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...is an erroneous conclusion based on a logical false premise...
No one is drawing that conclusion, apart from you.
I'm certainly not.
But neither am I prepared to deny facts.
It's no different than me saying the majority of corner shops in my district are run by Asian families.
Which is also true.
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What's the relationship between the Daily Mail link and RR's post iffy ? (not to mention the connection with the OP's posting)
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...What's the relationship between the Daily Mail link and RR's post iffy...
I thought it was obvious, RR was teaching an Asian woman to drive when he heard about the Asian nickname for coppers.
He later commented impersonation was a big problem at Barking test centre.
Thread drift on my part, which I didn't think we were too bothered about, particularly as the thread has already had more than 50 replies.
But if it's a problem, we can start a new topic in motoring.
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No I was baffled why we went from an Asian learner in a "Bobby" thread to test applicant impersonators, sorry - must be because its a Sunday afternoon.
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>> I thought it was obvious, RR was teaching an Asian woman to drive when he
>> heard about the Asian nickname for coppers.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with test impersonators.
>> He later commented impersonation was a big problem at Barking test centre.
Only after you mentioned test impersonators, speaking through your usual organ (I refer to the Daily Mail)
I wholly approve of thread drift. I could hardly do otherwise ;-)
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>> It's no different than me saying the majority of corner shops in my district are
>> run by Asian families.
Of course it's different, your comment is akin to saying that all Asian families run corner shops.
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To add some balance, 100% of all driving test examiners who have been sacked for corruption have been white British citizens.
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>> Bobby is a polite and respectful nickname
>>
>> It may be but but has anyone ever used it this side of 1930?
>>
SteelSpark did on 25th February 2011.
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I did this morning as well - see other thread.
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>> >> Bobby is a polite and respectful nickname
>> >>
>> >> It may be but but has anyone ever used it this side of 1930?
>>
>> SteelSpark did on 25th February 2011.
Yeah but, to be fair, I am a Tory MP...
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I thought you were on the Mail editorial desk.
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Bobbies and the good old days - CGNorwich
