Hi All
For anyone who is interested I have a small selection (7) pictures that I took at the NRM in York, I didn’t have the opportunity to take some detailed pictures and more snaps, and as such there are only what I’ve got. Because a) It was very busy, b) it was a trip out for my 4 year old niece (and me partly) to see the Hogwarts Express. And a 4 year old does not understand yet the concept of taking a picture of everything in sight as I normally do.
However my partner and I are going back in a few weeks, and to the NRM at Shildon so lots more to follow if anyone is interested.
tinyurl.com/63ha4l7
Regards
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Thanks, Redviper. It's an unfulfilled ambition of mine to visit NRM at York.
The red locomotive made me stop and think - it looks like ex-GWR, but its in Midland Red livery. I don't suppose you know what it is?
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I dont know anymore other than its "supposed" to be the Hogwarts Express, as used in the film.
Whether or not it actually is I dont know but advertising the fact that it is and charging people to go on it surely they would be up against trade discriptions or something if it wasn't.
Some Loco's I dont know much about - but I do have a genuine intrest in Loco's and Railways in gerneral and I am hoping to expand my knowledge a bit.
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Sorry do you mean the desiel loco 47798?
I dont have much info on that at the moment, but can find out im not sure what class it is, but ita a Ex royal train still BR I think despite the red livery
Last edited by: Redviper on Mon 21 Feb 11 at 23:30
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I have been, it is a very good museum. Went there with a friend who has no interest in trains it was a snowy winters day so I made the suggestion to kill time. Well worth the visit, was free or very cheap entry too.
I must go again sometime, it is a shame it is quite far from Manchester.
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>> was free or very cheap entry too.
>> I must go again sometime, it is a shame it is quite far from Manchester.
>>
Well worth it IMO Free Entry too
But:
It was £2 per adult to ride for 30 Seconds up the track and 30 Seconds back down again on the "Hogwarts Express" + £1 for my neice
A Nice roasted pork Sandwhich, & X3 Drinks, and two pre packed Sandwhiches from the already packed canteen on the platform £20!
One Ice cream for ny neice another £3 or so
Thats where it adds up, but I dont really begrudge the free entry (how can I) to a fantstic museum
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It's a Great Western Railway, ' Hall ' class 4.6.0 mixed traffic locomotive.
I know the kids like it but it really looks awful to the purists...should be in GWR green, An LMS Jubilee would have done the job and would be in it's correct pre-war livery of red.
Anal mode off.
Ted
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>
>> The red locomotive made me stop and think - it looks like ex-GWR, but its
>> in Midland Red livery. I don't suppose you know what it is?
>>
5972 "Olton Hall", it's actually painted in LMS red for the "Harry Potter" films.
Such shenanigans inevitably brings a serious bout of tooth-sucking from the purists, but like "Thomas" et al it gets the kids interested, which can only be good for railway preservation.
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I've got lots more from there last summer. But tend not have an online presence for photos. Maybe for this I should. The Streamliner was there when we were but the other rail museum had the Mallard :-(
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:6229_Duchess_of_Hamilton_at_the_National_Railway_Museum.jpg
Got a few photos of this and the Hogwarts train last summer though.
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This links to childhood memories. My father was a coach driver and we went to lots of places. One of them I think had to be York because of the railway museum. I remember the Mallard for sure. So this summer we went in and I asked about Mallard and it was at the other rail museum at the time. So probably was in York as a child. Think there was a Flying Scotsman too.???
I remember it well but I must have been six or thereabouts when there with my father.
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Think there was a Flying Scotsman too.???
>>
I think they are currently restoring the Flying Scotsman as there where appeal leaflets out asking for donations.
I would have but I just spend my £20 on 3 sandwhiches.
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>> This links to childhood memories.
>> So probably was in York as a child. Think there was a Flying Scotsman too.???
>>
>> I remember it well but I must have been six or thereabouts when there with
>> my father.
>>
In my childhood the museum was at Clapham. It still surprises me to discover that it is in York.
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Aval mode back on.
I was only thinking this week that there are so many continuity slips that are concerned with railways in filns, etc.
What brought it on was Coronation Street last week when a girl was off to London but was filmed at Manchester Victoria booking office. No service to London. The taxi taking her bloke was filmed crossing Princes Bridge over the Irwell.....heading away from Manchester.
The final scene saw him at Piccadilly Station gazing wistfully at the London express leaving, except it was a 2 car Diesel unit in purple, just like the one I got to Altrincham last week......Yorkshire Trains, I think.
South Riding's opening shots saw a tank engine pulling a British Railways cream and red train...in the 30s. It turned into a different engine when it got to the terminus !
The worst was the Robert Powell version of The 39 Steps but these gaffs go back to before the war.
I wonder if aircraft and ship enthusiasts see the same thing.
Anyway, just a light hearted observation...no big deal in the great scheme of things.
RV...I suggest you get The Railway Magazine monthly.....informative about the past and present.
Ted
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Thanks Ted, Ill have a look at that.
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That's fantastic, Ted, and I don't even care about trains.
Mrs C does a similar thing with birds (no, not in the "put that on the internet and you'll make a fortune" way). We can be watching some forties movie and in the background there's a lesser spotted sandgargler and she'll pipe up with "ah well, you see, not in April, and anyway, they didn't arrive in Sussex until 1956", and then we've missed whether the butler did it or not.
Actually, she cares about trains too, so perhaps a trip to the York museum would be a good thing. Thanks for the heads up, Redviper, as we used to say in the eighties.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 08:37
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"I wonder if aircraft and ship enthusiasts see the same thing."
Constantly! The classic aircraft gaffe is with footage of an airplane on final approach - invariably the camera shot is nose-on to the airplane as it approaches, cutting to tail-on as it touches down...and invariably they are two different types of airplane.
One example is in The Usual Suspects: its a 747 on approach, but a 767 that lands. Two engines and an upper deck missing are a bit of a giveaway. Grrr...
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Thanks for everyone in solving the mystery of the red locomotive.
I'm a purist when it comes to historical accuracy, but I do agree that we need to get the kids interested to ensure that preservation can continue.
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When I was there last August the 'Hogwarts' train was inside.
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Forget the Flying Scotsman...it's a money pit and hasn't brought a lot of luck to any of it's owners.
Put some money into this instead.
s479.photobucket.com/albums/rr152/1400ted/the%20unknown%20warrior/?action=view¤t=5520_Llandudno.jpg
I'm a member of a society which is building one of these 'Patriot ' class locos from scratch.
This will be the National War Memorial locomotive in conjunction with the British Legion.
It's being built at Llangollen and the frames are in place, wheels are being cast and a tender of the correct type has been found.
Ted
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That's PU country and full of Gogs. Sorry. :-) I'm originally from the south. There was a train 'cemetery' in Barry.... was there aged 5/6. My dad used to work at one point on the railway. But for me mostly a coach driver.
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Redviper.
You need to get a job on the railways and a good way of doing that is to do voluntary work but better still join us and play with real working trains it's not so exiting as you may think.!! :-)
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Bigtee:
would you mind If I sent you a private message through the mods?
Mods if thats ok with Bigtee, how would I do that?
Many Thanks
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RV,
Did I read on another thread you are volunteering at the Wensleydale Railway?
You can see my caravan from the line if you look out of the carriage window at the right moment.
The family and I had a go on the train last year.
I was disappointed with the inside of the carriage, which was filthy.
We took at as a successful attempt to portray 1960s British Rail. :)
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Thanks Bigtee
Iffy:
Yes I have just started voluntering I have yet not even been on any of the trains but will look out for your caravan spot if I can.
I have only been a couple of times and they are working despretly hard to get things up to standard but as it always comes down to it money is the problem unlike the North York Moors Railway which has a turn over of some million apperantly.
The Problem is this
1. There is no real signifigant tourist destination - only redmire there is talk about plans to re lay the track to Aysgarth falls which would give a viable tourist destination, there is already a track bed, and station - but of course it needs money
This would also help with a link to the East cost Mainline from Northallerton but it requires bridges to be built, and some modification of Northallerton Station - but if this could be done I beleive it would turn the railway around.
2 Vandalism - the WR is still plaugued with Vandalism there is no secure site or indeed sheds to store Loco's and rolling stock with most of it undercover. They are planning to build a shed as sometimes when they hire a train its requirment that its kept in a shed.
There are some lovely deisel loco's they have the same as the royal one in my pictures from the NRM but they are all kept outside which is a real shame. - again its all down to money.
Im looking forward to working with them, I had a walk down some of the Mk1 (or are they Mk2?s, I dont know thats why I want to learn lol) that where a victim of a arson - and they have been lovingly restored to their BR standard - I cant vouch for the one you where in though Iffy i didnt get chance to look round them all.
I probably would have joined the NYMR however its a bit far for me to travell on a regular basis.
Last edited by: Redviper on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 09:33
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Most of these smaller railways lurch from one financial crisis to another.
The Weardale Railway has opened and closed several times in the last few years.
I know someone who's involved in the line at Llangollen - the one linked to by Ted earlier in the thread.
That's a bigger concern, but is still permanently short of money.
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I think it would be a massive turn around for the WR if it could get the track laid upto Aysgarth falls, and the loop from Northallerton but that requires money and involvement from Network Rail and unfortunatly in todays situation the former is very hard to come by at the moment.
Its a real shame that what we had once was (probably) the envy of the world will eventually, without musuems and hertige railways* will just fade into the history books.
* The WR cannot get funding from the national lottery unlike some others as its a actually a PLC, and provides a publis service - its not (so im led to belive) actually classed as a hertige railway
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>> Most of these smaller railways lurch from one financial crisis to another.
BR couldn't afford it, that's why Beeching came along and shut them. Ok some with some natural beauty or good destinations could have survived, but most were uneconomic.
That still applies.
There is something really sad about short sections of track, with Hulking great locos, strangled to death at 20 mph.
Steam on the mainline is the way to go. You really cant appreciate what a steam engine is like until you see, feel and hear one at 70 mph - or more, or hauling hundreds of tons up a gradient.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 09:54
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>> BR couldn't afford it, that's why Beeching came along and shut them. Ok some with
>> some natural beauty or good destinations could have survived, but most were uneconomic.
>>
Absoultly I agree that a lot of lines, where unessecery and served little purpose I think that one of the WR saving graces is that the Army use the line to transport goods and vehicles.
but i think in order to survive they need the link from Northallerton re-opening, and the line extending to Aysgarth falls to be reopened
Or even better the line all the way from Aysgarth to the Settle - Carlile route relayed - but that would cost a lot and proably not be possible now
Last edited by: Redviper on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 10:00
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>> Or even better the line all the way from Aysgarth to the Settle - Carlile
>> route relayed - but that would cost a lot and proably not be possible now
Its not just the cost of laying it, the cost of maintaining the permanent way is astronomical.
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>>
>>
>> There is something really sad about short sections of track, with Hulking great locos, strangled
>> to death at 20 mph.
>>
>> Steam on the mainline is the way to go. You really cant appreciate what a
>> steam engine is like until you see, feel and hear one at 70 mph -
>> or more, or hauling hundreds of tons up a gradient.
>>
As a former preservation volunteer (GCR, Loughborough) and also one-time shareholder in 92212, I understand where you're coming from; however I prefer working steam in any form, even the restricted captivity of a preserved railway, to places like York museum, interesting though they are.
If you really want to see steam working "as it was", I heartily recommend the North Yorkshire Moors railway; proper gradients, decent locomotives and rolling stock.
Most preserved lines are limited to a 25mph speed limit, because they're defined as "light railways; Great Central at Loughborough has a 60 mph limit on its double track section (the only working one in preservation) but ISTR this is only for demonstration trains, no fare-paying passengers are allowed to be carried.
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Central at Loughborough has a 60 mph limit on its double track section
>> (the only working one in preservation)
The SVR have a higher limit as well... They used it to allow them to test some of the latest versions of DMU... Again for specials only and non passenger carrying!
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I know someone who's involved in the line at Llangollen - the one linked to by Ted earlier in the thread.
Not Brunstrom's father by any chance ? - he lives near your neck of the woods and is a volunteer on the Llangollen railway.
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I love everything about railways, from sleepers to stations and everything in between
Its born in me, from the day my dad took me (age 6)* to Stratford Yard, to be placed on the footplate of Britannia Pacific 70037 Hereward the Wake, where we steamed to Liverpool St Station, to head the Norwich Express. I was transferred to the coaches with my mum, and he drove.
"thats my dad driving"
Priceless.
* You can not imagine how big and scary a Loco in steam is to a 6 year old from the ground.
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I love everything about railways, from sleepers to stations and everything in between
Yes we do quite a lot of sleeping at work. :-)
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Ted, the worst film blooper has to be Mission Impossible where the helicopter follows the Eurostar into the Channel Tunnel... and the 25000v overhead power lines suddenly disappear!
Regarding working on the railways, if you want to be on the "front line", RV, then look on the TOC's websites, they have any vacancies listed... Bear in mind competition is fierce these days, even for the lower end jobs... The perks are better than NR have as well!
I'm not a fan of the red Hall either, though I can see the reasoning behind it... Isn't it red, though, rather than LMS Crimson? (Spotter head on!!)...
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 10:28
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>>Its born in me, from the day my dad took me (age 6)* to Stratford Yard, to be placed on the footplate of Britannia Pacific 70037 Hereward the Wake, where we steamed to Liverpool St Station, to head the Norwich Express. I was transferred to the coaches with my mum, and he drove.<<
Wow, what a pedigree. I'm Brunswick green with envy - in fact more the colour poor old 5972 should be. Why couldn't they just use something ex-LMS?
I'm so old I can remember when British Railways decreed all their heavy express passenger engines should be painted blue. That didn't last long.
The Britannia class engines had such interesting, nay historical, names too, didn't they? Mind you, The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry or The Fife and Forfar Yeomanry on a Deltic was pretty good too.
I read a fascinating book years ago by a guy called Gerard Fiennes (don't know if he was any relation) called I Tried To Run A Railway, about his days trying to make sense of operating British Railways. He recounts the story of being put in charge of the Eastern Region and, by management chicanery, managing to bag practically the whole of the brand new fleet of Britannias. So the engines developed at huge cost to revolutionise steam express haulage all over the country were inexplicably used to run a new service to East Anglia. It did keep very good time though...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 10:42
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Thanks for the tip Mike - added that book title to my "look out for cheap and flog on" list. After I've read it.
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I have it on the desk in front of me now, Crankers.
If you want a read contact me via the mods and I can send it you in a jiffy bag.
I need to make some room, my rail history books are nudging 130 with the recent Christmas/birthday intake !
Ted
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>> The Britannia class engines had such interesting, nay historical, names too, didn't they?
Yeah fabulous names - here is the list
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BR_'Britannia'_Class_locomotives
He used to drive Ollie a fair bit too, and drive the royal train a couple of times.
>> whole of the brand new fleet of Britannias. So the engines developed at huge cost
>> to revolutionise steam express haulage all over the country were inexplicably used to run a
>> new service to East Anglia. It did keep very good time though...
The rest of the railway crews hated them, of course the fireman and drivers of the Eastern Region claimed it took a real railwayman to get the best of them.
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I have a simply stunning picture of Hereward sitting at Cambridge yard, in about 1956.
She has just been delivered fresh from Crewe, wonderful green body, shiny black smokebox and smoke deflectors, gold coachlines and copper pipes all gleaming.
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At the NRM they have a steam train (I’m really sorry but I cant remember which one) that is litrally cut down the middle length ways
And when we where there on Saturday we watched a presentation of how the coal is burnt, and then water is turned to steam which ultimately is transferred to the wheels.
Absolutely fascinating I didn’t know much about the internal workings of a steam train, I knew about the water cylinder tubes within the boiler but was absolutely fascinated about the process of transferring fuel to a usable product.
Even my partner was enthralled by it, and like me we came away having learnt something new I cannot wait to go back again
Steam engines really are magnificent, and taking into account the engines that are on display there – Excluding Stephenson and the rocket for a moment, whoever came up with the skills and the know how produce such magnificent beasts must have been very, very clever people.
Last edited by: Redviper on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 11:16
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The great Steam Engine designers were much admired in their day, and great rivals.
Read up about the races and rivalry between the LNER and LMS, the designers like Sir Nigel Gresley and William Stanier, the engines Like the A4 Pacifics, and the Coronation class, and the famous crews who pushed the limits sometimes breaking the engines in the process.
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>> Read up about the races and rivalry
There's a good TV documentary on the subject, appeared a couple of times on BBC4 IIRC, well worth catching.
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the designers like
>> Sir Nigel Gresley and William Stanier,
Sir William Stanier FRS.
Ted
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Going back to the Hall class.
Here's what they should look like....
s479.photobucket.com/albums/rr152/1400ted/Hagley%20Hall/?action=view¤t=HagleyHall.jpg
About 260 of the class were built, all being named after halls.....rumours were that the last was to be called ' That's Hall ' .
Similar classes were named after Manors and Granges.
Larger express locos were the famous Castles and Kings with the Counties making a later entrance to the fleet.
Ted
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has it gone through a stop signal, or would it have returned to "on" immediatly after it has passed through
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Looks like a calling on or shunting signal rather than one controlling a block.
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Yes I was thinking that, I am right in saying thats a "Somersault" style of semaphore?
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>>I am right in saying thats a "Somersault" style of
>> semaphore?
>>
Backing onto a train by the look of the footplate crew...
The signal looks like a short-armed GWR lower quadrant signal, the glazing for the lights are attached to the signal and would indicate it can only move downwards by 45'...
www.signalbox.org/signals/semaphore1.htm
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Dons gricer's hat.......
No, GWR lower quadrant as described below. Some of these type are still in use in the Welsh valleys, most noticeably at Bargoed.
Somersault signals were specifically used by the Great Northern Railway; similar in principle to the above, but stylistically very different.
Railway signalling is a fascinating subject in its own right; I recommend you to this excellent website which tells you everything, and more, that you need to know.
www.railsigns.co.uk/home.html
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To me HM?
Just to clarify, I said it was a Lower Quadrant (a short armed version - they have similar at Worcester Shrub Hill station), not a somersault! Not sure if there is a misunderstanding or not! :-)
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>> To me HM?
>>
>> Just to clarify, I said it was a Lower Quadrant (a short armed version -
>> they have similar at Worcester Shrub Hill station), not a somersault! Not sure if there
>> is a misunderstanding or not! :-)
The photo I posted was taken at Highley on the SVR, ISTR.
Ted
>>
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Definitely lower quad, then...
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>> To me HM?
>>
No mate, @Redviper.
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Ted I think the train featured in corrie was a Pacer with a top speed of 75mph. In reality the trains used are 9 car Pendolinos as you know and there is always a dramatic sense of occasion when boarding begins. 100's of people rushing to get onto the train.
I realise that they probably were not allowed to film at Picciddily but surely Stockport or even Stoke would have been more realistic? They could have called it Wetherfield Station or something.
I don't follow railway magazines on purpose because I would have to admit I am railway buff then, but I think very soon I will end up buying one.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 11:39
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>>
>> I don't follow railway magazines on purpose because I would have to admit I am
>> railway buff then, but I think very soon I will end up buying one.
>>
Well if you're too shy to buy one in Smiffs you could always hide it in something less embarrassing like Playboy. ;-)
Alternatively browse this free on-line magazine in the privacy of your home:-
www.railwayherald.co.uk/magazine/
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Six years ago when the scotsman was being fixed 2x of us went out working in York at the station and popped out to the museum when we had some spare time, Still in uniform with high vis etc blagged a look under the scotsman a little nosey and was shown around very good as my mate is into the steamers.
But on the way out a gang of tourists were asking us questions as they thought we were staff blagged that too.!! :-)
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My grandfather worked as a fitter on the railways all his life, except for wartime service in the Army. He retired in 1970-something (I think) when Nine Elms yard was completely closed.
He had a lifelong love for steam engines, and always made a point of going to the East Somerset and West Somerset railways whenever he was down here. I can remember getting onto the foot plate of Black Prince a couple of times thanks to him - like Zero says, an eye widening moment for a young boy.
There was a photo on his wall I can always remember, a line of steam locomotives stood silent and rusting outside a shed (presumably at Nine Elms). I can recall him telling me it was not long after steam engines were withdrawn and they were destined for scrapping - apparently there wasn't a dry eye in the yard when they were taken off.
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My old man was devastated when the Steam Locos went, but he consoled himself with the Class 37 diesel-electric locomotives, that were gratifyingly big, butch, powerful, noisy, hot and smelly.
When after a re-org he was permanently rostered onto Suburban electrics, he told them to poke the job up their dead mans handle and walked out after 25 years man and boy.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 12:30
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Diesel Electric Class 37 (Deltics?), & Electric Class 90 are my absolute favourite post steam loco's
Class 37 because its big, noisy and looks it, Class 91 I still think it looks really modern - I think it looks quite "mean"
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Grandad didn't care much for diesel power, apart from the fact it kept him in work. He did like the Deltics though - and up close they looked and sounded nearly as powerful and impressive as a steam locomotive.
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>> Diesel Electric Class 37 (Deltics?),
Nope - Not Deltics. They were class 55 and 23.
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ah i see, It seems I still have a lot to learn.
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There's a fairly strong English Electric family resemblance between the Deltics, the 37s and the 23s (Baby Deltics).
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Deltic was Class 55, tin engined 100mph beast. The 37 was however very similar to the so called 'Baby Deltic'; a mixed traffic loco powerd by a single downsized deltic engine. Never really worked and they were withdrawn in the early seventies. None survived the scrappie.
However a spare engine survived an plans are now afoot to re-create a Baby Deltic using a class 37 as the donor body.
EDIT: thanks to Z for reminding me, the Baby D was class 23.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 13:17
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The term "deltic" comes form the engine.
The Napier Deltic was an opposed-piston valveless, two-stroke diesel engine. The cylinders were divided in three blocks in a triangular arrangement, the blocks forming sides with crankcases located in each apex of the triangle.
Compact and hugely powerful. Not terribly reliable at first tho,
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"Nice little animation here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic"
Looks like a 3-way sex machine.
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>> The Napier Deltic was an opposed-piston valveless, two-stroke diesel engine. The cylinders were divided in
>> three blocks in a triangular arrangement, the blocks forming sides with crankcases located in each
>> apex of the triangle.
The noise of a deltic is utterly distinctive. Virgin hired one in for a couple of years in the late nineties to haul a summer only Cross Country service from Manchester to Ramsgate. The southbound leg routed via the West Coast line then the west Lonodn line to Clapham Junction and the Kent Main Line. Came through Northants about 09:00 on a Saturday. Immediately identifiable from the electrics and HST's running the main service to Euston.
Never heard it onthe way back though; I think the northbound sector ran via Reading & Banbury.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 13:31
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>>
>> The noise of a deltic is utterly distinctive.
>>
Certainly is! Unfortunately I managed to miss the one occasion in recent years to hear it, there was one on a railtour down here a couple of years back which went up Parkstone Bank (a fairly steep incline between Poole and Bournemouth) on one engine, you could hear it for miles apparently.
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>> >> The noise of a deltic is utterly distinctive.
I heard - and felt - a Deltic running once on Paddington station. I was waiting with my grandfather for a train home. He saw one on another platform, a quick word with the ticket inspector got us onto the platform just as it was powering up to leave. It left me shaking, I think from the vibrations :)
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>> The noise of a deltic is utterly distinctive.
>>
Sure is!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oILjPBuO3cs&feature=related
"22 passing Retford"
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Never really worked and they were withdrawn in the early seventies. None survived the
>> scrappie.
>>
>> However a spare engine survived an plans are now afoot to re-create a Baby Deltic
>> using a class 37 as the donor body.
Class 37 were still in use by DB Schenker in 2010 and West Coast had 4 at the end of the year.
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>> Class 37 were still in use by DB Schenker in 2010 and West Coast had
>> 4 at the end of the year.
Sorry Ted didn't make myself clear. It was the Class 23 Baby Deltic fleet wfu & scrapped in the seventies and a 37 that's providing a donor body.
As you say 37s are still around in small numbers.
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>> Class 37 were still in use by DB Schenker in 2010 and West Coast had
>> 4 at the end of the year.
I was waiting at Clapham Junction for a train to Shepards Bush last year, and Class 37 no 37706 was warming up one track away from me.
Its often seen in the sidings at Woking too. Its often used to return or bank steam specials.
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Bigtee - you have mail in your registered account.
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Replied.................:-)
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Hi Bigtee, did you get my message?
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This is addictive.
I helped work on Hagley Hall when it was in bits in the yard at Bewdley on the Severn Valley Railway. That must have been about 1971. Hinton Manor 7819 (I think) was also being rebuilt there.
And let's not forget Sir William Stanier FRS did his time at Swindon Works on God's Wonderful Railway...
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There's a very nice little biography of Bill Stanier in paperback form.
Published by the Oakwood Press.
My copy was £11.95, I've also got ' Sir Henry Fowler, a versatile life ' and I think there are others in the same series.
Of course, the GWR is of no interest whatsoever to a dyed in the wool L&Y Ry man :
Ted
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>> Of course, the GWR is of no interest whatsoever to a dyed in the wool
>> L&Y Ry man :
>>
>> Ted
And the term "Gods Wonderful Railway" sticks in the craw of a boy who was born with "Late but Never Early Railway" green blood.
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Oops, it just slips out.
Actually, I have a pedigree too. My mother was a booking clerk on the GWR. I never had any exciting experiences in the booking office though...
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>> And the term "Gods Wonderful Railway" sticks in the craw of a boy who was
>> born with "Late but Never Early Railway" green blood.
The LNER ran at the bottom of our garden
Originally it was the MS & L Money Sunk and Lost. In 1899 it became the Great Central......Gone Completely.
GWR....the Great Way Round.
Ted
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>> GWR....the Great Way Round.
>>
Quite! These gwr bods have such an over-inflated view of themselves... Brunel couldn't even get the gauge right, for Pete's sake!!
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>> Brunel couldn't even get the gauge right, for Pete's sake!!
>>
Nah! :-)
Brunel got it right - everyone else got it wrong.
A railway system built on Brunel's wide gauge would be one with far more stable and comfortable trains (possibly faster and safer as well).
GWR rules, OK.
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>> >> Brunel couldn't even get the gauge right, for Pete's sake!!
>> >>
>> Nah! :-)
>> Brunel got it right - everyone else got it wrong.
>> A railway system built on Brunel's wide gauge would be one with far more stable
>> and comfortable trains (possibly faster and safer as well).
And horrifically expensive to build and run.
Plus his trains wouldn't fit through the channel tunnel.
Only IKB thought he knew better than the Romans
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>> Plus his trains wouldn't fit through the channel tunnel.
>>
Another benefit!
>>
>> Only IKB thought he knew better than the Romans
>>
Everybody knows better than the Romans. A sex-mad, imperialist bunch of warmongers who had no real culture of their own, except what they borrowed second-hand from the Greeks.
Most overrated Empire in history.
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>> >> >> Brunel couldn't even get the gauge right, for Pete's sake!!
>> >> >>
>> >> Nah! :-)
>> >> Brunel got it right - everyone else got it wrong.
>>
>> >> A railway system built on Brunel's wide gauge would be one with far more
>> stable
>> >> and comfortable trains (possibly faster and safer as well).
>>
>> And horrifically expensive to build and run.
>>
>> Plus his trains wouldn't fit through the channel tunnel.
>>
>>
>> Only IKB thought he knew better than the Romans
>>
The fact that there are no large scale railways anywhere in the world with a gauge greater than 5 foot 3 ish proves that IKB was wrong on this occasion. He was extremely good at building bridges though.
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>> The fact that there are no large scale railways anywhere in the world with a
>> gauge greater than 5 foot 3 ish proves that IKB was wrong on this occasion.
>>
The pros and cons of any size gauge should be discussed on their own merits, not on the schoolboy-like argument of "Well everybody says so, so it must be right". Everyone used to think that the world was flat!
The fact is that there are arguments for adopting all sorts of gauges - it is not an open and shut case. Australia has three different gauges in one country, for example! Which illustrates how difficult it is to agree on an ideal.
As for there being "no large scale railways anywhere in the world with a
>> gauge greater than 5 foot 3 ish", check out India. 42k kilometers and growing of the 5 foot 6 inch gauge. (in fact they are standardising their mixture of gauges onto the bigger gauge).
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>> The pros and cons of any size gauge should be discussed on their own merits,
Absolutely not. For an island like ours, and in Europe, standardisation is an essential economic, and operational requirement.
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>>
>> >> The pros and cons of any size gauge should be discussed on their own
>> merits,
>>
>> Absolutely not. For an island like ours, and in Europe, standardisation is an essential economic,
>> and operational requirement.
>>
Now you are just making up a straw man to be awkward.
Kindly point out to me where I have argued against standardisation. You can't, because I haven't!
The argument is always about WHAT gauge to standardise on, not WHETHER to standardise. As I pointed out, India is doing exactly this, and they have chosen their biggest gauge as the standard.
The UK made its decision in 1846 with the Gauge act. I just happen to think that it was an unfortunate one, that's all. (Why 4 foot 8 1/2 inches anyways when standard colliery gauge was 4 foot 8. Where did the extra half inch come form, and why?)
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It's the loading gauge that restricts UK railways particularly because it effectively prevents the operation of double deck stock.
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>> He was extremely good at building bridges though.
Er, not all bridges, though. Saltash is still a major bottleneck on the way west.
Don't even mention the atmospheric railway !
The broad gauge had problems going round bends
, the Thames tunnel was never any use and killed a lot of workers and the big ships never realised their potential !
Box tunnel was a success but the men who built the great Kilsby tnnel near Watford Gap had a much more difficult job.
Stephenson, Telford, Locke....engineers not self publicists.
Ted
>>
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Bought a cracking little book in a second hand bookshop in Betws y Coed. Parry's Railway - described as a companion to the Chester to Holyhead railway it's a delightful pocket sized book which is quite a detailed Victorian guide to the towns and villages around the railway. Nice down-time reading.
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I did reply but it may have gone to pu so i'll do it again and send to you.
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National Railway Museum York - Londoner
