M's being made redundant. Fair enough, known it was coming for a while.
She's not likely to go back into work anytime soon (other stuff happening), i know we need to setup a direct debit to cover her National Insurance stamps.
Is there anything else we should be doing, or any gotcha's to be aware of?
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eh! if you sign on at the jobcentre your stamp is paid, isnt it? - why you need to bother about DD?
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Sign on - stamp is auto credited.
1st job sit down with paper and pencil
LHS - Savings + Income RHS Expenditure
Colour them Red Yellow & Green say -
Red Rent/Mortgage, Gas,Electric, car loan Fixed & must be paid
Yellow - Food, travel to work, petrol, again must be bought & paid but can be lowered
Green - Luxuries, Football, Gym membership meals out............
Cut back on some and try and get some balance of ins/outs
Claim benefits you are entitled to rent, council tax, free school meals, free prescriptions
Job Hunting - a full time job these days- get organised, CV.............Both Son & DiL were on the ball and achieved new jobs in 3 months
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I've been out of work for three months, and looking for work for about two of those.
Stamp is covered by signing on, but if you have 30 years continuous contributions then doesn't matter anyway.
Not having work right now, I can't profess to be expert on job hunting but I've been attending a weekly session run by volunteers which has given a huge insight into the approach to getting work, including CV, interview, impact, TMAY, using the internet effectively etc etc. But at the end of the day tehre is nothing like networking to get you the job, so tell her to keep up work contacts where possible.
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>> Stamp is covered by signing on, but if you have 30 years continuous contributions then
>> doesn't matter anyway.
Correct, and if you can give her all of your NIC above 30 years to top her up. For example I have 36 years NIC, Nicolle only need 24
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As a minimum she should get 6 months contribution based Jobseeker's allowance (67 quid a week gross) if she's paid NI for the last two years, and her stamp is kept up as already pointed out.
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Bad luck, OP.
In my view paying optional NI is generally throwing money away for the sake of it.
However if you insist on it there's no need to pay the NI at the moment anyway. Wait until back in a job. Helps the cashflow no end.
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OP said: 'She's not likely to go back into work anytime soon'.
I think she'll find it easy enough not to get a job for the six months that job seeker's allowance will be paid. That at least will take care of six months payments, as long as she doesn't mind signing on every fortnight.
You can make up your mind after that if you want to pay contributions.
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Many thanks for all the replies folks.
She's not going to be seeking out a new job so claiming benefits is probably not really appropriate. I think it's all means tested anyway and since i cant be trusted with money, the savings accounts are in her name.
She will return to normal work maybe in 4 or 5 years. Am i right in saying you only need 30 years worth of stamps? Is this likely to change*?
I've been hunting around to see if there's any chance we could jepordise something silly without thinking, e.g. NHS availability or that EC11 or whatever it's called for abroad (we go with travel insurance anyway, but still).
* I'm aware all you can do is best guess, but some of you seem pretty clued up when it comes to these topics, more likely to guess correct
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Will it change?
Who knows. But if it does it won't be in your favour. If you want to give money to the state with no certainty of seeing it again then Zero's wine cellar is more worth of contributions... he is at least a pensioner.
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Fair enough, thanks for that Mapmaker
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>> Will it change?
>>
>> Who knows. But if it does it won't be in your favour. If you want
>> to give money to the state with no certainty of seeing it again then Zero's
>> wine cellar is more worth of contributions... he is at least a pensioner.
Contributions gratefully received, The prosecco bins are a little empty at the moment.
Yes you only need 30 years NIC in total. For JSA its not fully means tested, savings don't count, but income from other sources does. I was ineligible I found out in the end, they told me two weeks after I signed on.
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>>
>> She's not going to be seeking out a new job so claiming benefits is probably
>> not really appropriate. I think it's all means tested anyway and since i cant be
>> trusted with money, the savings accounts are in her name.
>>
The first 6 months jobseekers isn't means tested; I regarded it as a refund of a very very small part of the money I'd paid in over the preceding 30 years.
Yes you only need 30 years' worth of stamps.
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The downside of claiming the dole if you have no intention to work is that you have to attend the job centre fortnightly and sign a declaration that you are available and have been looking for work, backed up by evidence. You sign a contract at start where you agree to certain things such as applying for x jobs a week, approaching y companies etc. I wouldn't recommend it if you aren't genuinely looking for work.
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>> The downside of claiming the dole if you have no intention to work is that
>> you have to attend the job centre fortnightly and sign a declaration that you are
>> available and have been looking for work, backed up by evidence. You sign a contract
>> at start where you agree to certain things such as applying for x jobs a
>> week, approaching y companies etc. I wouldn't recommend it if you aren't genuinely looking for
>> work.
Its not hard to make it look like you have gone through the motions. its about an hours work a week. The Job Centre is a depressing place tho and some of the clientèle will open your eyes.
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My foray into that world certainly did - not all in a negative sense - as I sat on a tatty settee waiting to be talked down to, a young lad sat next to me, couldn't have been more than 18 or so - he asked me if it was my first time (and the last as it turned out) when I said yes, he winked at me and said "you'll be ok mate" - otherwise it was pretty dreadful.
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>>
>> Its not hard to make it look like you have gone through the motions. its
>> about an hours work a week. The Job Centre is a depressing place tho and
>> some of the clientèle will open your eyes.
>>
Obviously it does help if you are actually looking for work, but in 'the age of the internet' you can fire off job applications left right and centre with minimal effort, most job sites will automatically log your applications, take the printout to the job centre.
I sign on in Ringwood, which is pretty civilised by and large; I suppose it depends what sort of catchment area one's local office has.
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Jobseeker's allowance is an allowance for jobseekers, not for those who are on an extended career break.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/18/section/7
I wouldn't fancy being up in court accused of benefits fraud and having to perjure myself that I had been seeking work when in fact I had not. All for the sake of £65 a week. £1,500 in total. Each to his own, I suppose. But as for admitting to this sort of thing on the internet:
m.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1354821/Benefits-pirate-Caribbean-Simon-Daymond-Harris-caught-sons-blog.html
Pat - you're braver than I!
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 17:44
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Not really Mapmaker, I have principles, they might not be to everyone's taste but they serve me well.
Pat
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I just didn't have the guts to post what you posted, I thought I might be flamed in the name of the hardworking masses. ;)
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We might well have our differences Mapmaker, but I think we both have the same opinion of right and wrong.:)
There's another thread I've had to sit on my fingers to stop me commenting on too!
Pat
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>> There's another thread I've had to sit on my fingers to stop me commenting on
>> too!
>>
Go on, don't be shy, Pat. Tell us your views. If not, then at least tell us which thread you are referring to (not the one about avoiding paying care fees, is it?).
Last edited by: John H on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 18:10
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In the spirit of maintaining forum harmony, I shall refuse to be drawn and continue to sit on my fingers.
I may weaken at 3am tomorrow morning though:)
Pat
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I suspect your view will be shared by many on here in this matter, so I wouldn't worry about a backlash.
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>> so I wouldn't worry about a backlash.<<
Come on Zed, when ever has that worried me:)
I'm known as the Flying Witch at work for a reason, you know!
Pat
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Well twitch your broomstick and start jotting
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Isn't that benefit fraud?
Pat
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Not if you're actually looking for work.
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The OP said in his original post..
>>She's not likely to go back into work anytime soon (other stuff happening)<<
..and to be fair to Skoda he has re-iterated that in another post so why is everyone suggesting ways around it?
I think it's that case that it's alright for 'us' to do it but not anyone else, and it only what we're 'entitled to' after all.
Could that be why the benefit system is in the state it's in today?
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 17:50
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No, its a benefit you are entitled to.
I have to admit I didn't need it when I signed on, but if I was entitled to it I was going to take it.
Herby follows a tale of why it costs so much to administer.
Step 1
I checked on the web, and it said that due to my previous period of employment I was entitled to 6 months JSA. I filled out an on-line form giving all my circumstances and my current pension income.
Step 2
Someone from the DWP phoned me the next day to check who I was, and asked me to attend the local job centre armed with details of my current pension and my past employment.
Step 3
Attend the local JC and get interviewed by two people, who ask to see all the details in Step 1 and step 2
Step 3
Asked to go and wait for for an interview with a Jobs advisor who takes all my past experience, skills and capabilities, we agree a plan to find work and how. Told to report back in two weeks
Step 4
A Letter arrives telling me that because my pension income is so high I am not entitled to JSA
Step 5 (some weeks later)
A letter arrives from the DWP telling me my JSA allowance has been stopped ( Yes the one that has never been paid) because I failed to attend the Job centre to check my work progress.
You cant believe the bureaucracy It could all have been sorted at step 1.
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I didn't mean your case Zero, I was referring to JSA ( JOB SEEKERS allowance) the clue is in brackets.
If you're not actively seeking a job then in my book it's wrong.
Pat
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>> No, its a benefit you are entitled to.
>>
Only as a job seeker
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I was proposing to see what work was available? does that count?
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Might work for a very short time. My Jobseekers Agreement, which I had to sign, says:
What I will do to identify and apply for jobs:
Write to at least 2 employers a week
Phone at least 2 employers a week
Contact Jobseeker Direct at least 1 time a week
Look in: online searches, Linked In, local papers
It goes on...
I will keep a written record of all my job seeking activities in diary/spreadsheet and bring to each interview.
I will apply for at last 2 jobs a week via the internet, newspapers, recruitment agencies, networking etc etc
It also has the terms which are agreed as my goals:
Prepared to travel up to 1 hour, and states the minimum wage I am seeking - both of these are reviewed at three months
So I'd say that as I've signed up to that, then that is what is expected of me, and anything else would leave me open to allegations of cheating.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 18:11
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Yeah - As I said, its about 1 hours work a week.
When I turned up at step 3, I even had details of a job I had applied for.
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Can't disagree if you aren't serious about finding a job...
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Look Smokie, you and I were in the same game. You and I know that if you want work in the IT game you work your networked contacts, get up in front of the agencies, etc etc.
The Jobcentre bullcrap way of doing it is outdated. In certain fields anyway. You don't need their help, or their money so whats your reason for taking it?
Me, I was genuinely interested in looking at a career change, but I wasn't going to do it in their timescale or method.
Plus, I will freely admit I had worked for 40 years, paid tax for 40 years, paid NIC for 40 years, and if there was a benefit I was entitled to I was going to take it.
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"I had worked for 40 years, paid tax for 40 years, paid NIC for 40 years, and if there was a benefit I was entitled to I was going to take it"
Me too, but not quite 40 years just yet!! I also thought I needed to keep my stamp up. Now it's just part of my routine - the £65 goes some way to filling the car up. (!!). And I am seeking a job...
In fact I've tried discussing career change with them but they aren't clued up enough.
They did, however, sign me up with a job club for professionals and executives which does a weekly session on different aspects of job hunting, which has been useful. I haven't had a full-on interview for over 20 years, and my CV was rubbish. Tomorrow I have the first of three interviews over five days
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>> Might work for a very short time. My Jobseekers Agreement, which I had to sign,
>> says:
>>
Mine looks the same, apart from the making direct contact with employers bit, which isn't on mine. In practical terms I wander into the Job Centre once a fortnight with my printout of 'my applications' from Jobsite and they're happy with that.
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Yep, my interview takes less than 5 mins every fortnight. But I guess if they had doubts then they would ask more questions, or pass it across to the investigators..
Most people would prefer to be working than in the dole though wouldn't they?
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Everyone is missing the point really.
If you are recently unemployed and want to work, 68 quid a week is pathetic, and the job centre useless at finding you work, and frankly a place that will quickly kill your spirit.
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I agree Zero, I was well humbled after going there...I was being interviewed by a civil servant and she could not grasp my circumstance, she asked me what kind of work I thought I could do and I said "yours" which was absolutely true....
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>>
>> Herby follows a tale of why it costs so much to administer.
>>
About the same amount of steps here, even without the pensions complication. Multiply that by 2.5 million unemployed and that's a lot of man hours.
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I had exactly the same experience as Zero (so damnit I have to agree with him) I would have gone for more or less anything at that point. When they told me I wasn't entitled to JSA I thought stuff-it. I'm quite glad I did it really. I agree especially with Zero having worked for for so many years and been a contributor to the system I felt "entitled". I'm just about to be screwed or another 12k on stamp-duty before long as well !
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...about to be screwed or another 12k on stamp-duty before long as well !...
You'd be a lot happier if you were paying twice as much.
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Not really. HMRC have done very well out of me in the last 2 years, even taxing my Bereavement Grant at 40%.....! (I was "entitled" to that as well !)
Last edited by: Pugugly on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 18:46
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...Not really...
You know what I mean, stamp duty is effectively a tax on wealth, so the more you pay the more wedge you've got.
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>> (so damnit I have to agree with
>> him)
Welcome to the flock my son. You are enlightened.
Is there any vacancies for a Messiah?
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Yep, but remember what happened to him in the end (well almost the end)
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I know, I am sure Pat would like to crucify me.
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I had JSA after taking voluntary redundancy. Signing on was a joke. My appointed time was 4.30pm on a Friday afternoon. By the time they got round to seeing me all the other staff were putting their coats on. Who's going to spend time on me?
I had the quarterly review after five months! I signed myself off after another month.
A month later I found exactly the sort of job I wanted.
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Question for PU and/or Zero
Was cont based JSA refused because you had other income or, more specifically, because you'd taken early retirement and were getting occupational pension?
I have an interest in that I may be in same position in a year's time. My current employer is being abolished and given my age Civil Service redundancy will take the form of an early pension.
A former colleague who left on similar terms a couple of years ago was declined JSA on grounds he believes were specifically related to getting pension. He's subsequently gone into benefits advice and says, in terms, that if he's known then what he does now he would have gone to a tribunal on basis that he was redundant not retired and that his income was attributable to his redundancy.
I'd be tempted to give it a whirl if only for the intellectual stimulation of formulating and arguing an appeal.
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I was refused JSA because of level of income (pension).
As far as I know the source, or why I was seeking work was of no relevance.
I will sort out the letter when I get home tomorrow evening.
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Same for me. Exactly the same.
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Cheers guys.
Was trying to find the rules but direct gov just takes you round in circles unless you want to claim. I'll email the ex colleague tomorrow as well.
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And that is the exact point I made earlier. The rules about level of income to get (or not) JSA are not spelled out, even when you claim.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 24 Feb 11 at 22:29
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What level might that income be?
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I think they make it up as they go along.....I "passed" the first telephone interview, disclosing everything - and failed the one at JC+ - maybe I looked to well.
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There are two types of JSA.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/207/contents/made
PART VII AMOUNTS
79.Weekly amounts of contribution-based jobseeker’s allowance.
82.Income-based jobseeker’s allowance.
You will have to look up the current rates.
The last I know of these rates were - Jobseeker Allowance (Contribution Based)
Age
16 - 25 Allowance £51.85
Over 25 Allowance £65.45
Income Based Jobseekers Allowance.
Income Based Jobseekers Allowance paid to cover your daily living expenses for people who are under 60. Any income you have, above certain disregards, will effect the level of benefit paid. If you, as the claimant work more than 24 hours (or 16 hours for the partner of the claimant) you cannot claim Income Based Jobseekers Allowance.
Capital Limits are:
* £16,000 (£6,000 Disregarded)
* £16,000 if permanently in Residential Care or Nursing Home. (£10,000 Disregarded)
Last edited by: John H on Thu 24 Feb 11 at 23:24
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Thanks John. It's the contribution based type that's under discussion here. After a bit of wading round the DWP website I've found the decision makers guides and para 21060 makes clear that its not payable if there are 'earnings' over a prescribed amount. I think my friends point was about the definition of earnings where redundancy payment was taken as pension.
I've lost the will to live trying to look into it further tonight but will have another go tomorrow after I've spoken to my benefit adviser contact.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 24 Feb 11 at 23:50
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But I would have thought if a pension is being received over a certain level then you have an income and have 'retired' so should not get job seekers allowance.
On the other hand I can see how having paid tax and NI for so long and then get nothing back when you have had to leave work.
Does the JSA payment take into account retiring vs being made redundant. I know people do the former when offered the prospects of the latter. But if you're on a pension then you have your living costs and probably more covered.
Is one of the problems as simple as taking a pension (so retired and therefore not looking for work) vs. being out of work with no income (e.g. redundant)? I realise being retired from your original job/career does not mean you're not going to work ever again.
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rtj
My personal position would be that I've accepted voluntary redundancy but that I intend to seek another job. Yes, there's a bit of the 'paid in all my life' argument there but if I'd taken redundancy with a lump sum, however big, I'd have the means to pay my bills & still get JSA.
I suspect the definition of 'earnings' is drawn precisely enough to cover pension and that there will already be commissioners decisions covering any grey zones. £68 a week for 6 months isn't exactly life changing but I quite like the challenge of being an awkward customer of government after 32 years of handling government's awkward customers!!
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Not commenting on your circumstances but if one was drawing a pension.... then not seeking work? And therefore not eligible for JSA?
Edit: I have colleagues on TUPE rights that if they were made redundant they would be paid over £100k. I'd give them JSA - not.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 25 Feb 11 at 00:36
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But I would have thought if a pension is being received over a certain level then you have an income and have 'retired' so should not get job seekers allowance.
Wrong Rob IMO. I "retired" at 50 - I'll have to wait until 6? for my state pension - plenty of people have a second career after they their first. Why shouldn't I get state help i looking for new work ?
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Because (and speaking as someone who has decided he is retired) you have sufficicent income, from whatever source, not to need help. The current government is, quite rightly, cutting out what we cannot afford and cutting out payments to those who do not need them so that those who do need help can continue to receive help.
If you really believe that the government should not waste money then you surely must agree with this approach. There is not only the cost of paying you but also the cost of maintaining the civil service army to assess you and pay you.
I could get indignant and say "I've paid my stamp all my life and never had a penny" (not strictly true, had a few bob as a student during holiday) but that is my good fortune in being in continuous employment for errr, a long time.
John
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John,
Not got time to reply in detail but the key is National Insurance. You pay a premium, contributions, and draw the benefit when unemployed or sick. Various governments of both shades have gradually eroded the insurance principle so as to render it near meaningless.
Income support, for those who have no income is a different proposition.
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Sorry B but I just don't agree. NI also pays for health care. You might be disgruntled at not having had your share of that?
Though we all know that NI is just a tax and, in my view, should be abolished and merged into income tax.
John
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I agree that for practical purposes NI money is just a tax and in that sense it pays for health care. But a contribution record is required for JSA(C) or Retirement Pension and in that sense the contributions represent an insurance premium.
Presumably, in your system, those able to suport themselves would be denied a state retirment pension?
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"Presumably, in your system, those able to suport themselves would be denied a state retirment pension?"
Ah, you've got me on that one!
However, and this is I admit becoming a little bit irrelevant, NI was introduced to pay for the Health Service iirc. There's that famous quote from Bevan, or possibly his mate Bevin. Hence my remark.
John
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These days it's all tax taken from us.
The more we hope for JSA when we're retired (and no doubt it costs as much to administer as we get, if not more) then the more tax we can expect to pay.
Same for the old age pension. Although it's no longer "recommended" to be contracted out of SERPS (or S2P as it's now known), I am most certainly contracted out as I want to get my grubby mitts on the money so they cannot change the rules.
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" I am most certainly contracted out as I want to get my grubby mitts on the money so they cannot change the rules."
I'm definitely with you on that one Mapmaker. When it's in my pension account every year it's mine, all mine. The Government can't delay the time when I get it as it's my choosing.
On the theme of delay why are we all not revolting (North Africa Style) about women's pensions? My lady wife is in an age group where her pension entitlement age has been put back twice. In simple terms the Government has robbed her, yes robbed her, of in excess of £30,000.
Yet apart from the financial pages so little is said.
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"it's mine, all mine"
I could hear the cackle :-)
John
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i never bothered with a pension and just saved to pay off the mortgage by age 34.
yes the govnt have robbed your wife but they have robbed everyone else as well.
one reason for not having a pension is its mine all mine and no one is going to tell me when to take it out and rip me off with a anuity.
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Another Thread About Redundancy - devonite
