Up to 20 fast jet pilots, 30 helicopter pilots and 50 transport aircraft pilots are said to face the axe.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12445321
No pre-pack administration to save them.
Does anyone feel for them?
Or will these young guns find that Daddy's contacts in the City will get them lucrative jobs in the Banks?
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If they have any sense the airlines will snap them up and complete their training, especially the almost fully trained ones. I was lucky and survived armed forces redundancies.
The sooner our politicians realise that we are not a world power the better it will be for everyone.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 09:29
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I have something of an association with this issue and feel gutted for them. Pilots do not always make good bankers so it's lucky the majority will not have such contacts.
No-one is really safe these days so who knows where the axe will fall tomorrow?
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>> The sooner our politicians realise that we are not a world power the better it
>> will be for everyone.
>>
I think they have, but they fear the outcry from the public if all the cuts are made in one swoop. More drastic cuts to come after 5 or 10 years.
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"Does anyone feel for them?"
I expect people do in the same way that they feel for anyone else losing their jobs. Not sure what your point is.
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>> I expect people do in the same way that they feel for anyone else losing
>> their jobs. Not sure what your point is.
>>
Have you ever met these trainee pilots and their parents? The majority of them come from privileged or very privileged backgrounds, and won't be short of a bob or two to tide them over while looking for alternative jobs.
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Even if your statement was correct and I'm not sure that it is then they still will be deeply upset at losing the career they have wanted and pursued for years.
You seem to have a rather narrow and envious view of other people.
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Does this include Prince William as he should be the first to go.
Yes to get into pilot trainning you need top grades but thats not all coming from a silver spoon it's from school graft and yes i feel for them a top job to be in.
BA and the rest will snap them up & cargo pilots.
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Clearly we no longer have enough planes for all the Pilots to use. It makes economic sense to make those still in training redundant.
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>>Does this include Prince William as he should be the first to go.
Prince William is no longer a trainee. He qualified as a RAF pilot last year and has been promoted to the rank of Flight Lieutenant.
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Then get shut of him and give a trainee a chance of a job. :-)
William can go to traffic checks on the M1 for BBC Radio 2.
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RAF has 630 pilots and 38,000 staff in total. What do the other 37,370 do?
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>> Have you ever met these trainee pilots and their parents? The majority of them come
>> from privileged or very privileged backgrounds, and won't be short of a bob or two
>> to tide them over while looking for alternative jobs.
>>
>>
Have you ever met them?
What absolute and utter nonsense. Go off and carry on reading your copy of Socialist Worker. I grew up on a council estate. My mum still lives in that same council house. I worked hard and gained a commission in the Royal Navy. The vast majority of the people I trained with were ordinary people, who had put in similar amounts of hard work.
Look behind the headlines and you'll find out all the RAFs navigator trainees have also been binned, as have lots of WSOp crewman. All the RN fixed wing trainees...binned. They will face the same trails and hardships that anyone else losing their jobs will face. Nor will they have access to the benefits gravy train that continues to exist. After all, we can't 'attack the poor' can we!
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>> Have you ever met these trainee pilots and their parents? The majority of them come
>> from privileged or very privileged backgrounds, and won't be short of a bob or two
>> to tide them over while looking for alternative jobs.
Can you expand on privileged or very privileged? I'm sure that like most professions the RAF tends to recruit in it's own image but I'd be intrerested in the way that makes recruits very privileged.
The only RAF pilot I knew was over 30 years ago. His father was a an FE teacher & mother a college librarian (though her accent suggestred a grammer school education).
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...The majority of them come from privileged or very privileged backgrounds...
Bromp and mlc,
I think those remarks by our resident polemicist are an attempt at satire, with reference to recent threads on here about downtrodden workers being let down by fat cat bosses.
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Yes, they are and are having the desired effect.
Another excellent thread discussion which is now plumbing the depths of sarcasm.
Pat
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Actually, in the midst of all the satire and sarcasm, Mappy has made a good point. The point about an airforce is to put and keep 630 planes in the air. What do all the others do? I bet the Armed forces have more "fat cat" bosses than any other.
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>>The majority of them come from privileged or very privileged backgrounds...
I think you'll find that many will have come from what might be described as 'middle class' backgrounds, and will have attended a grammar school, rather than a public school.
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>> I bet the Armed forces have more "fat
>> cat" bosses than any other.
>>
The navy have more admirals than ships.
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I wonder how many crews there are per plane? I mean, does any one plane have a notional number of crews assigned to it (two, three) or is it one plane / one crew? I'd have thought it was several crew per plane though I'm assuming that a plane can be "turned around" after a mission faster than a crew can get some sleep and be ready to go again.
In which case the crews dropping those Tornadoes will be short of a few pals.
John
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When I was flying F4s in the 70s we had 14 two man crews for 10 aircraft. The aircraft were not all available at any given time, maintenance and servicing, and neither were the crews, leave, training courses and so on. The 10 most senior crews had their names on the aircraft but anybody flew them, unlike WW2 when on many fighter squadrons a pilot was allocated an airframe and a two man groundcrew team to service it, a rigger and a fitter
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>>>When I was flying F4s in the 70s
You lucky chap PP.... a seemingly impressive brute of an aircraft from the onlookers point of view. In the latter flying days of USAF Alconbury I would be very close to these on afterburner takeoff at the point of brake release.
Also sure I remember at a pouring wet RAF Abingdon show one doing a low level 360deg outside turn in the days they were allowed to overfly the crowd.... would that have been possible?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 11:14
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An outside turn - very painful, all that -ve g and not that likely IMHO. F4s did some shattering displays, before the days of "rules". There was an Air Day at Coningsby which was blighted by a day of dire weather, drizzle and low cloud blowing off the North Sea. A RN crew from Leuchars turned up on schedule and gave a blistering display, largely within the airfield boundary. All the amazed crowd could see was a fast moving ball of condensation roaring round the airfield with a black radome sticking out of the front and two large reheat flames coming out of the back! Respect!
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>>>not that likely IMHO.
That's what sense tells me but I just have this feeling I might have been right.... more investigation needed.
A bit like you describe the weather was closing in such that many aspects of the display were being curtailed and it did seem this guy in the Phantom was giving something back to the crowd who were mostly soaked through.
I went to the last Lightning show ('87) at Binbrook in similar weather and with a soaked Pentax managed some amazing vapour shots like this guy's..
www.flickr.com/photos/mike_ward/2203907377/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Video of Binbrook here...
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1110283041156598394#
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 11:40
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There is no way that any trainee pilot, forced to leave the RAF, will have any meaningful qualifications or flying experience that would enable them to get a job with any airline
Easylet's entry requirements are
Direct Entry Captains need a minimum of 3000 factorised hours total and a minimum of 500 factorised hours in command of a medium to heavy commercial jet (current command).
Co-Pilots need a minimum of 500 hours multi-crew commercial experience ranging from medium/heavy turboprop to medium/heavy jets or military background (heavy transport, fast jet or multi crew rotary).
Senior First Officers (SFO's) have an unfrozen ATPL.
First Officers (FO's) have a frozen ATPL (CPL + ATPL theory).
A UK Based Course but with the flying done in USA where they have better weather:-
The total cost of the course is £37,950 including VAT (although allowing for those things not covered in this you should allow for spending more in the region of £50,000 with all costs included). One has to fin one's own accommodation and for for 12 months for example
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PP - easyJet aren't recruiting direct entry any more and AFAIK don't intend to in the near future either.
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>> Bromp and mlc,
>>
>> I think those remarks by our resident polemicist are an attempt at satire, with reference
>> to recent threads on here about downtrodden workers being let down by fat cat bosses.
>>
I don't visit the site often, (because the 'community spirit' seems to have vansihed) so I'm afraid the 'satire' went right over my head. 13 years of a criminally incompetent Government, followed by another that targets all the people who serve and add something to the country (rather than the leeches that suck the blood from it) don't do a lot for your sense of humour.
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m, Iffy recently offered me a job as Foreign Secretary, perhaps he could offer you the Prime Minister's job, get it all sorted.
PS - I think he was having one of his "Napoleon" moments so don't take it too seriously.
John
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... Iffy recently offered me a job as Foreign Secretary, perhaps he could offer you the Prime Minister's job, get it all sorted...
A c4p cabinet, now there's an idea.
Tooslow at the Foreign Office and mlc at Number 10 - we could do worse.
Of course, there would need to be an even more senior position for, er, me.
So we'll abolish the monarchy and appoint President Iffy.
(Four legs good, two legs better, you know).
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Will there be a part time working class position I can have?
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Put me down for anything in the Fat Cat class.
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OK Fenlander, you've heard of the straw that breaks the camels back?
Well that's it for me.
Pat
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That's the problem when over-sensitivity is only *allowed* one way.
I'm currently looking for a part time working class job in real life... I know my place. I would have made exactly the same comment if you'd never posted anything on here.
I post miles within the spirit of the Car4Play rules so don't make me responsible for your temporary going elsewhere.
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I'm not temporarily going anywhere or making you responsible, I was just amazed at a 'follow my leader' type remark coming from you.
Having been critical, albeit in parts, I wouldn't have expected it.
When I can post in something that resembles adult company, capable of discussion of 'certain subjects' I will do so.
Pat
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Pat if you really read how I post on here (a continuation of my HJ posting going back 10yrs) you will see I'm not part of a sub group, I'm not friends outside the forum with anyone, I'm always respectful and most of all I never follow others.... all opinions are my own.
If you are reading every post to try and fit it to your agenda then you'll be constantly wrongly accusing folks... and that in itself is just as destructive to the forum as those *fierce* posters who are best ignored if you don't agree.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 12:23
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Ah c'mon Pat. F wasn't having a go at you. Ignore 'em, that's what I and plenty of others do.
John
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>> OK Fenlander, you've heard of the straw that breaks the camels back?
>>
>>
>> Well that's it for me.
>>
>> Pat
>>
LOL
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OK, getting on with the job in hand, further nominations for Iffy's cabinet? We need a Finance Minister. Who's from Yorkshire? Or Scotland. :-)
John
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So long as SteelSpark doesn't get Minister for Sport, I don't mind!
;-)
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Can I withdraw "or Scotland"? I'd forgotten. Probably some protection mechanism cutting it out.
John
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I have the same sympathy for anyone who's lost their jobs; but equally there are plenty of people in the commercial sector who found themselves in the same situation (*cough* British Airways *cough*) who found themselves dumped shortly after starting a type rating.
Unlike the RAF chaps (and chapettes) these people were left jobless and servicing a £60k loan.
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Sadly a fraction of the many other jobs losses in the RAF that will be coming up soon. There is likely to be several thousands of us made redundant.
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Would there be any mileage in keeping some, at least those nearest their wings, on in the Voluonteer Reserve?
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Not really as they don't/won't have their wings nor will they have done a conversion course to qualify them to fly any front-line aircraft or helicopter.
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Pehaps Wills will make a gesture ?
I mean give up his seat.
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He probably will. He has the "served in the armed forces" tick now, essential on his Royal PDP.
Talking of Royals in the armed forces, how the hell did Charlie get as many gongs as he has? I really wouldn't have the nerve to parade in uniform with as many chocolate coins that I hadn't earned.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 18:28
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Personal Development Plan. You're out of it now Z, you can forget all of that nonsense. You'll get a pension increase every 12 months without going through a DPWR or setting objectives for the next 12 months. ITIL and al of that bs - who cares. Relax.
John
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Stretch?!!! At our place they were bleepin impossible!!
Relax. Think of the poor sods getting out of bed in the dark, grin, turn over, have another half hour, then get up and have a lazy breakfast. You've not got the hang of this "retired" lark have you?
John
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As I suspected, most of them are honorary things given by the Queen or by heads of state durinmg official visits.
England 1958– Royal Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter KG
Flag of EIIR.svg Commonwealth realms 1973– Personal Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen AdC(P)
United Kingdom 1975– Grand Master and Principal Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath GCB
Scotland 1977– Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle KT
United Kingdom 1977– Lord of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council PC
Australia 1981– Knight of the Order of Australia AK
New Zealand 1983– Extra Companion of the Queen's Service Order QSO
Saskatchewan 2001– Honorary Member of the Saskatchewan Order of Merit SOM
Flag of EIIR.svg Commonwealth realms 2002– Member of the Order of Merit OM
Papua New Guinea 2005– Royal Chief of the Order of Logohu
[edit] Decorations
Country Date Decoration Post-nominal letters
United Kingdom British Commonwealth 1953 Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Medal
Fiji 1970 Fijian Independence Medal
Papua New Guinea 1975 Papua New Guinean Independence Medal
Flag of EIIR.svg Commonwealth realms 1977 Queen Elizabeth II Silver Jubilee Medal
Canada 1982 Canadian Forces Decoration and two clasps CD**[8]
New Zealand 1990 1990 Commemoration Medal
Saskatchewan 2001 Saskatchewan Volunteer Medal
Canada 2002 Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal
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I think you'll find that one of them is for walking the corgis. Hope he cleaned up afterwards.
John
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No, his butler would have done that and then washed his hands before squeezing the royal toothpaste tube, hopefully.
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Ah right, Figures.
As I said I wouldn't have the nerve to turn up in uniform with that lot.
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Now looks like 175 out of 400 are out of work... don't we need these pilots?
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Not really. They aren't pilots, yet. They are trainees plus. there will be very little for them to fly if their training went through to get them qualified. The RAF already has the aircrew from the complete Harrier and Nimrod fleets to try and find flying jobs for. Additionally, I believe they may be cancelling an order for 12 Chinooks which would nor be in service before we are out of Afghanistan, ie not required, for that operation at least.
That said, I am sure we shall see a dire shortage of qualified aircrew some time in the future but not soon. Plus this debacle will kill most youg people's ambitions and wishes to consider any career in the military.
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I feel for them, at least they were being trained to do a proper job with some kind of tangible use. What annoys me are the non jobs going on all around us in public sector, you know the sort of thing, usually ending in "officer" and working in local authorities, probably don't even know what they're supposed to do themselves. that's where the cuts are really needed.
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A senior BBC employee who is "BBC Vision Controller of Multiplatform and Portfolio" admits that the title is barmy, I tend to agree! Also be suspicious ot titles including the words Outreach, Facilitator and Coordinator.
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In a bold move by the UK government Easyjet owner Stelios announced today that he would soon be taking control of the RAF.
www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s1i91486
;-)
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Many a true word spoken in.....................:-)
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RAF Trainee Pilot job cuts - Old Navy
