Anyone who owns an air weapon should be aware that a new law came into force today. All air guns must be kept under lock and key from now on, with a max fine of £1000 should the rozzers visit and find your rat stopper leaning against the lounge wall.
I'm sure all responsible owners do this already, but one to note nevertheless. Link here -
www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key
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>> All air guns must be kept under lock and key from now on
That isn't true, actually.
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So one death from nearly 1400 "incidents"
Seem like a sledgehammer (you know the rest)
If it succeeds 1 more person might be alive next year (or might not be) or 2, or even 0 if the results are a statistical abberation.
Nannyism, in its worse form
Most airguns I have owned have trouble making an aluminium drinks can feel insecure.
If the state feels the same it tells us a lot, do you really think an airgun equiped brigade would cause the forces of the state any real threat? Just a knee jerk by those who really feel they do know better but fear the public may somehow have access to the tools of recourse
Forget air weapons I would build a gallows in Parliament Sq that might make some 646 (or thereabouts) minds more operate effectively
As always
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 10 Feb 11 at 19:58
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>> Most airguns I have owned have trouble making an aluminium drinks can feel insecure.
>>
Though one 10 year old can still take another 10 year old's eye out.
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So in addition to one death
There were 67 other "incidents" the report does not specify how many were eye related, one? two, ten? how many?
Given the eye is a no bigger target than a 2p piece it would be quite a feat even intentionally to hit it.
So what is the risk and what is the solution that has been given?
Are they proportionate?
Do the figures only relate to U18 airgun accidents or all accidents?
Then why do we bother.....
Several thousands more die each year on the road and the majority are sober, licenced and insured
As always
Mark
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>> Though one 10 year old can still take another 10 year old's eye out.
They don't need air weapons to do that.
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There are several interesting things to consider, including:
o - People under 18 but ovet 14 can use airguns unsupervised on private land - tell them that they can use the rifle in the garden, and that's that.
o - If the children in your house are too small to reach the airgun, you could simply put it in a high place.
o - If you are not normally visited by children, no difficulties.
o - You have to take "reasonable precautions to prevent unauthorised access to airguns by children - what is reasonable depends on the circumstances.
If you are visited by friends with children, or your children's friends, then lock it in a room or cupboard.
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basically an airgun is a gun
treat it with respect and you dont need no nannying
i got into trouble by a roadside check for carrying a proper sling shot in my locked boot to the point i was threatened with arrest
pathetic
its scum that abuse weapons
lets take away their benefits
simples
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>> i got into trouble by a roadside check for carrying a proper sling shot
What is a "proper sling shot"? Something biblical?
>>to the point i was threatened with arrest
I wonder what for. Hopefully you told 'em where to get off.
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Regarding your garden comment, isn't there some rule about not using within 50ft of the centre of a road or does that only apply to shotguns and firearms?
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>> Regarding your garden comment, isn't there some rule about not using within 50ft of the
>> centre of a road or does that only apply to shotguns and firearms?
>>
The rule does not apply if you are shooting in a direction away from the road.
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>> >> Regarding your garden comment, isn't there some rule about not using within 50ft
>> of the centre of a road or does that only apply to shotguns and firearms?
>> >>
>> The rule does not apply if you are shooting in a direction away from the
>> road.
Yes it does.
"to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of any highway (...) if in
consequence, any user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered"
Something along those lines, anyway. You could look the exact wording up.
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Well if you do not have any children living in the house and never have children visit I don't see the legal need the to lock such a weapon away. As the website says the legal requirement is:
"owners will be liable for a fine of up to £1000 if they do not take reasonable precautions to stop unauthorised access to their airgun by people under the age of 18"
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>> That isn't true, actually.
>>
I don't think it is either. The blurb says "reasonable precautions", no more, and although there is a paragraph about secure storage it uses the word "should" not "must".
I own two; one hangs on a beam , well out of reach of visiting grandchildren, the other elsewhere in the house but out of sight.
I remember as a young lad, that's how my grandfather's shotguns were kept. I didn't touch them for fear of the consequences; nothing to do with shooting, it was the threat of Grandad's belt across my backside!
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...one hangs on a beam...
We had two shotguns hung on a beam in the kitchen at the farm.
A .410 and 12 bore side by side.
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>> All air guns must be kept under lock and key from now on
Does that mean if you want to use them they must be attached to a padlock and chain, like the ones at the fairground?
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Effectively the law requires you to keep the guns under lock and key, unless you want to leave yourself open to someone else's interpretation of what "secure" is.
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>> Effectively the law requires you to keep the guns under lock and key, unless you
>> want to leave yourself open to someone else's interpretation of what "secure" is.
>>
As far as I am concerned, "secure" means my house, to which no-one under 18 has access unless supervised by myself or my wife. If I had young children resident then of course I would lock them up.
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>> If I had young children resident then of course I would lock them up.
Isn't that against the law?
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>> >> If I had young children resident then of course I would lock them up.
>>
>> Isn't that against the law?
>>
Probably, but it's a lovely thought! :-)
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...As far as I am concerned, "secure" means my house, to which no-one under 18 has access unless supervised by myself...
I think, years ago, there were similar arguments over shotguns, before locked cabinets were made compulsory.
Those who claimed 'secure' just meant their house lost the argument.
I'm with Robin on this, I suspect if it came to it, a copper will tell you secure is not a locked house in which there are no children.
To comply with the spirit of the law, an air weapon is best in a locked cabinet or cupboard.
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>> I'm with Robin on this, I suspect if it came to it, a copper will
>> tell you secure is not a locked house in which there are no children.
>>
>> To comply with the spirit of the law, an air weapon is best in a
>> locked cabinet or cupboard.
It's the letter of the law that matters, not your wrong opinion.
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>> I think, years ago, there were similar arguments over shotguns, before locked cabinets were made
>> compulsory.
>>
>> Those who claimed 'secure' just meant their house lost the argument.
>>
>> I'm with Robin on this, I suspect if it came to it, a copper will
>> tell you secure is not a locked house in which there are no children.
>>
>> To comply with the spirit of the law, an air weapon is best in a
>> locked cabinet or cupboard.
I would suggest that there was a secondary reason for firearms (as opposed to air weapons) being locked away; the risk of them being stolen for criminal activities.
When, and not until, the law says "must" rather than "should", I will happily comply. The main reason is speed of access; rats and squirrels do not tend to hang around long enough for me to mess around finding the keys to the cabinet.
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>> Effectively the law requires you to keep the guns under lock and key
As before - no, it doesn't.
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...As before - no, it doesn't...
FT,
As you say, what I say doesn't matter.
You try arguing the letter of the law with a copper in your house when that copper knows you have a firearm.
You will be flat on your face, trussed up and arrested in no time.
You want all that aggro, go ahead.
Last edited by: Iffy on Thu 10 Feb 11 at 21:51
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>> You try arguing the letter of the law with a copper in your house when
>> that copper knows you have a firearm.
Don't keep on being so silly. The police already know who has firearms, and do visit all these people from time to time.
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...Don't keep on being so silly...
FT,
These are the Home Office guidelines:
"Store your airgun out of sight and separately from pellets
"Use a robust, lockable cupboard and keep the keys separate and secure"
What part of the phrase: "Use a robust, lockable cupboard" do you not understand?
You are entirely ignorant of how firearms regulations - and guidelines - are dealt with in practice.
As I said, you go and argue the 'letter of the law' garbage with the copper who turns up at your door and see where it gets you.
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>> ...Don't keep on being so silly...
>>
>> FT,
>>
>> These are the Home Office guidelines:
>> "Store your airgun out of sight and separately from pellets
>> "Use a robust, lockable cupboard and keep the keys separate and secure"
Yes, they are. Guidelines. They also outline other ways of keeping your air-guns, and add "What will constitute ‘reasonable precautions’ will depend on the particular circumstances in each individual case".
>> What part of the phrase: "Use a robust, lockable cupboard" do you not understand?
The word is "guidelines", which quite obviously you do not understand. You could read the guidance agaqin (noting of course that guidance is not law), and see that I am right, and you are quite wrong.
>> You are entirely ignorant of how firearms regulations - and guidelines - are dealt with
>> in practice.
No, I do have some practical experience of this - which you obviously do not - and until you do have some experience and/or knowledge, I am very happy that you do not.
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FT,
In today's climate of fear over guns, you will not get anywhere trying to go against Home Office guidelines.
They are not law, but for all practical purposes they may as well be.
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>> FT,
>>
>> In today's climate of fear over guns, you will not get anywhere trying to go
>> against Home Office guidelines.
I Have not recommended this. You are obviously having trouble with comprehension, as well as general issues pertaining to understanding the law.
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>> The word is "guidelines",
Guidelines are what the customs men at Dover use regarding fags and booze quantites. In law, we can all bring whtever we like in to the country.
Being only guidelines doesn't stop them impounding your car if they feel like it though.
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The wording in the act (which amends the firearms act 1968) is as follows: -
It is an offence for a person in possession of an air weapon to fail to take reasonable precautions to prevent any person under the age of eighteen from having the weapon with him
Act at www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/17/section/46
If that replicates the sections applying to shotguns etc then there is a strong case for saying the law requires a cabinet.
Otherwise, until there is a prosecutuin and potentially appeals to a court where authority is created its a matter of interpretation. If I had one I'd be locking it up but probably not if I didn't live in a semi urban setting & have teenagers around the place
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Feb 11 at 10:48
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>> If that replicates the sections applying to shotguns etc
It doesn't. The law as applied to shot guns also differs from the law applied to "etc", BTW.
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Re VXfan. Wouldn't stop a determined user. I had dealings with a fatal involving a .22 rifle (frangible type ammo) where the deceased turned the rifle around to his head. Even though it was secured to the gallery bench-top by two chains. NFA. But I keeps away from shooting galleries! Tuned air rifles are pretty lethal. Just read the mags. Need to be kept out of idiot hands. If you need a rifle, fair do's. But how many owners have a) land and b) a valid reason to have them? Not many, perhaps?
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Thu 10 Feb 11 at 21:15
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Not much land, but I use mine for crows, squirrels and the occasional rat that's a bit big for the cat to deal with.
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>> Not much land, but I use mine for crows, squirrels and the occasional rat that's
>> a bit big for the cat to deal with.
>>
Same here, rats mainly and with a small garden I can despatch them with a pistol.
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>> Tuned air rifles are pretty lethal.
They are also "illegal" unless you have them on a FAC.
>> Need to be kept out of idiot hands. If you need a rifle, fair do's.
>> But how many owners have a) land and b) a valid reason to have them?
If you are talking about "non-FAC" air rifles, then you don't need any reason (same for shot guns). You can also use them in your garden.
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Please let keep some perspective here
Not all air weapons are "highly pimped past FAC limits" does any one where remember the GAT air pistol, you could quite happily shoot yourself in the foot with it (wearing shoes of course) and it was no worse than the "hard kids" at school stamping on ones foot in terms of effect.
So I have a GAT (worth no more than a £10 2nd hand) and now I need to buy a £100 cabinet in case my U18 nephew comes a visting, please....
In my experience most nephews are better armed before they come through the door than they would be after nicking an airgun or two..
This is thin edge of the wedge next it will be licencing for airguns and so on. The the UK government has a fear of citizens owning guns and has exercised this over the last 40 years to the most extent they can in case one day the citizens go to far.
This is not rabid pro gun comment just look at places like France and Belgium where you can still buy almost what you want gunwise without too much bother and no mass slaughter in the streets, in fact less than occurs in a heavily gun regulated UK.
As always
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 10 Feb 11 at 22:13
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Indeed HM.
Can anyone recall the last airgun inspired massacre that occurred in the UK where anyone died?
Really these people need to get a grip and a life, I firmly believe most career politicians are serial bedwetters given their insecurities about what the rest of us will get up to if they are not allowed to supervise us to the fullest extent possible.
As always
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 10 Feb 11 at 22:23
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>>
>> This is thin edge of the wedge next it will be licencing for airguns and
>> so on.
>>
That has recently been considered in Scotland.
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>> So I have a GAT (worth no more than a £10 2nd hand) and now
>> I need to buy a £100 cabinet in case my U18 nephew comes a visting,
>> please....
As said before - no, you don't need to buy a "cabinet".
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I don't see the point of having air weapons. Personally I won't have one without a specific need. Vermin elimination would be a possible use. Until I need to use one, not for playing with, I don't want one. That way the nephews can't fire through/over the hedge.
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>> I don't see the point of having air weapons.
Fun (e.g. target practice) - competition, even.
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Yup. That'w what I have used as reference above.
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Fri 11 Feb 11 at 10:44
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Thanks RR.
I had a BSA Meteor air rifle as a youth which I used to shoot at tin cans down our (long) garden; no interest in shooting living things. Then last year Mrs F surprised me somewhat by pronouncing that she fancied an air rifle for Christmas.
So I bought her a Gamo Delta Fox for about £100 - it's only about half the maximum legal power allowed for air guns, but I'm still quite impressed by the way it embeds .177 pellets in a wooden door we use as a backstop down the garden.
Anyway, we don't have a lockable cabinet at the moment, and I'll need to think carefully about where to store it. I imagine it only needs a neighbour to report seeing someone with a gun and the police could be round pretty sharpish.
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>> So I bought her a Gamo Delta Fox
That's got good reviews - if she gets serious, you could look at something like these:
www.edinkillie.co.uk/ecatalog/firearms-air-rifles-c-88_27.html
Also available second-hand, try "guntrader".
>> I imagine it only needs a neighbour to report seeing someone with a gun
Tell them and they won't need to worry!
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>> That's got good reviews - if she gets serious, you could look at something like
>> these:
>>
>> www.edinkillie.co.uk/ecatalog/firearms-air-rifles-c-88_27.html
£1000+? She can look as much as she likes :)
>> >> I imagine it only needs a neighbour to report seeing someone with a gun
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>> Tell them and they won't need to worry!
It wasn't so much immediate neighbours as houses in other roads who might be able to see into our garden.
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>> >> >> I imagine it only needs a neighbour to report seeing someone with a gun
>> >>
>> >> Tell them and they won't need to worry!
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>> It wasn't so much immediate neighbours as houses in other roads who might be able
>> to see into our garden.
Oh dear.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=50PbTompgB8
I don't know whether there'd be any value in telling your local plod - you might get a safety lecture, which might be a good thing, or useless to you.
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>> Oh dear.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=50PbTompgB8
:)
>> I don't know whether there'd be any value in telling your local plod - you
>> might get a safety lecture, which might be a good thing, or useless to you.
I think we should be ok - just stick with plan A, make sure gun is stored securely.
Funnily enough I thought I was going to get nicked last night. Son usually has a guitar lesson on Saturday mornings, but due to illness had one last night. While he's in his lesson in teacher's house I sit outside in the car working on my laptop. Was doing that (in the dark, interior light on) when a police car pulls up on the other side of the road and policeman gets out and walks towards me. I assumed I'd been reported for acting suspiciously and/or looking like a criminal, but it turned out it was something to do with the house opposite and they thought I was the one who had called them. Relief :)
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...just stick with plan A, make sure gun is stored securely...
Wise move.
If a policeman knocks at your door and asks if you have an air rifle, what he wants you to say is:
"Yes officer, it's in its cabinet, would you like to see it?"
That is much, much better than you pointing to it in the umbrella stand in the hall, even if that is a legal place to store it.
The guidelines mention a cupboard, so there's no need to buy a Chubb safe.
A kitchen cupboard with a cheap B&Q hasp will do.
By not only complying with the law, but also the guidelines, the copper will assume you are a responsible owner, all the presumptions are in your favour.
Not complying with the guidelines could see the reverse happen, which is when things can get stupidly out of hand.
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>> Not complying with the guidelines could see the reverse happen, which is when things can
>> get stupidly out of hand.
Part of that is about the first sensible thing you've had to say in this thread. I do not know why you got so shirty when I recommended following the guidlines earlier on - I take it that you are now in a position, having read and understood the guidlines, to continue to be more sensible?
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FT,
I posted: "To comply with the spirit of the law, an air weapon is best in a locked cabinet or cupboard."
To which your direct reply was: "It's the letter of the law that matters, not your wrong opinion."
I took that to mean you were not recommending complying with the guidelines, but you were recommending complying with the letter of the law.
My position has not altered, it seems yours has.
By the way, in our new climate of 'huggy-huggy we are all here for each other', are you allowed to claim that I am not sensible?
I think it would be stupid if you were not, but as you say, what I think doesn't matter.
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A couple of points. Some forces don't (didn't five years ago) require you to have a cabinet for shotguns; a clamp was sufficient.
BB guns are airguns too. They are illegal to use within 50 feet of the centre of the road. Local yoof litter the place with the polychrome plastic balls. I guess they need to be locked up too.
My late father's air rifle (c1930) shoots screwed up bits of tinfoil about five feet if you're lucky. I guess I should warn my mother to hide it on top of a wardrobe.
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someone i know got his shotgun licence from the chief of the constables and it was unsigned
very sloppy
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I watched a small group of youths hanging about a house opposite me a while back. One of them produced an air rifle and to the others amusement proceeded to shoot pellets at street lamps, roofs, seagulls and other targets. I was in the process of calling plod, when he aimed up at my roof. I live on a main road and feared he might hit a car or a pedestrian. The Surrey police officer took over an hour to respond. This after I drove to a walk in one desk, part time station manned by a civvy in the town. Heaven help if it turned out to be a substantial weapon. Or a maniac on the loose.
The daft thing was when I had made the call and this scrote was still firing away, a Met police car drove past, just off its patch. All the kid did was put the rifle behind his back so it couldn't be seen.
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In the 1980s a friend of my parents' was blinded in one eye whilst standing in his own living room by a hooligan with an air rifle deliberately shooting him through his own front window for a laugh.
The inner city slum of degeneracy where this took place? Maidenhead.
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>> The inner city slum of degeneracy where this took place? Maidenhead.
The Berkshire Hunt was not named by accident.
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Near Princeton, NJ, in 1973, ricochetting bullets started whining into the trees just outside the house where I was staying. My American hosts were scared and went indoors, but I headed for the house next door, about 100 yards away, where I could hear a small-bore rifle firing.
Two teenage boys were whanging .22 bullets off an inclined rock because they liked the noise it made. While I was asking them to please use another plane of the rock, because their bullets were coming a bit close, the mother of one of them came out, gave them a terrible earful and took the rifle away. I thought she was being a bit strict actually.
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Important Note To Owners of Air Guns - FotheringtonTomas
