My family have private health insurance. In September 2009, our daughter was referred to a private specialist for a consultation. Our insurance company authorised the consultation, and agreed to pay.
Several months later we received a letter from the Doctor demanding payment. we queried it with the insurance company, who informed us that they had paid and that they would confirm this with the Doctor's office.
Over the ensuing 16 months, we have been receiving demands form the Doctor's office for payment, and every time we have received a letter, we have again queried this with the insurance company, who have assured us the bill was settled, and we have confirmed this back to the Doctor's office.
Yesterday I received another demand for payment telling me that if the bill wasn't settled within 24 hours, debt collectors would be employed to recover the debt from me.
Again I contacted the insurance company and asked them to fax their proof of payment to the Doctor's office immediately, on pain of me coming up there and setting fire to someone's rose garden.
Today, the Doctor's office have still not received this proof.
It is my expectation that the Doctor's office have mislaid the original proof of the payment, and yet they are still pursuing me with threats of action, to which I am not taking kindly.
I have asked the Doctor's office to please, with a cherry on top, call the insurance company themselves as I'm getting absolutely no joy out of either side, and this would seem the only way of resolving the issue and putting a stop to this nonsense.
They are refusing, saying it's not their responsibility and they're too busy.
Whose rose garden should be getting a visit from me, my Zippo and my 5l can of unleaded?
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Tell the insurance company that if this carries on, you will need private consultation for stress, and this will cost them more money.
Legally, the contract is between you and the doctor, not the doctor and the insurance company, who simply settle bills on your behalf.
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Can you not ask the insurance co to provide YOU with proof of payment?
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>>Can you not ask the insurance co to provide YOU with proof of payment?
That's exactly what I'd be asking for.
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As Zero says the contract is between you and the Doctor - I'd be tempted to ask the Insurance company for a copy at the same time ask them to explain their complaints process to you, it might be enough to trigger a response.
In the meantime the Doc believes he's entitled to his money - you need to sort that out...maybe a personal visit (without the Zippo) to the practice manager might be enough to sooth his fevered brow.
Extended Warranties eh ?
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It's not the Doctor I'm dealing with, it's his chippy secretary and their "accountant" who is threatening me with the bailiffs for money they received .................16 months ago.
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The Doctor has obviously lost the original proof of payment.
The insurance company are evidently incapable of sending a new on the Doctor. We've asked them about 6 times. How do you imagine they're going to get one to me within 24 hours?
I'm getting threats of debt collection if the issue isn't sorted in 24 hours (starting 24 hours ago). It is only going to get sorted now if they speak to eachother. Now. Immediately. Today. NOW!!!
This is no way for either party to treat a customer, and they seem incapable of resolving the query through the intermediary (me).
I think I'll stick to the NHS next time.
Where's Mapmaker to tell me it's all my own fault?
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Suggestion - make an appointment to speak to the practice manager now, phone the company whilst you're there - the practice will be keen to sort this so they will want to talk to you....
Edit or the chippy secretary ! You need to sort this before they do the debt thing otherwise the perceived "debt" will triple if not more.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Thu 20 Jan 11 at 12:12
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Balls to that.
The practice should sort this by admitting they can't keep track of their paperwork, and apolgising to me for their threats, and contacting the insurers for a copy of documentation on my behalf.
I'm the blasted customer of both parties here, none of this is my fault nor doing and I'm getting the unpleasant threats.
They need to get off my back and sort their lives out.
This has (and is still) taking hours of my valuable time. Who do I bill and threaten with bailiffs?
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...The Doctor has obviously lost the original proof of payment...
How can you be sure of this?
It may be the insurance company has not paid.
Best not to assume anything.
Do we know how much money is in dispute?
As others have said, strictly the doctor's bill is down to you.
I would want to know what I'm liable for.
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Alanovic,
Are you sure you want the Zippo comment visible? Remeber the guy who tweated about Donny airport!!!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 20 Jan 11 at 12:24
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B, I don't think my words can be interpreted as a specific threat to an individual - no-one is named here. Apart form some roses. And no-one involved is called Rose.
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...Remeber the guy who tweated about Donny airport!!!!...
Slightly different in that the airport was clearly named and the tweeter was easily identifiable.
Having said that, I wouldn't post about threatening to burn something down in any circumstances.
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I can be pretty certain that the fault is with the Doctor's administrators, as my wife has received extensive treatment over the last two years for a life threatening condition, which has involved multiple surgery, consultations, follow ups etc, all dealt with by the hospital in question and the insurance company without a single quibble.
However, this pediatrician’s administrators have had one single bill to deal with regarding our daughter, one payment to process, and it's all gone belly up. I think I can strongly suspect that they are at fault.
I simply can not abide it when someone will not admit they are wrong, and help out a PAYING CUSTOMER. This Doctor will not be receiving my business again, that's for 100% certain.
I don't see why I should have to entertain the idea of further involvement, although as you point out I might just have to. But I shall be telling them exactly what I think, cc the Doctor himself, and any parent company who they work for. This is harassment.
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...all dealt with by the hospital in question and the insurance company without a single quibble...
Agreed, that strongly suggests the administrative fault is with the doctor.
Perhaps the insurance company could give you some payment details, date, amount, method of payment.
This might help the doctor find the payment in his records.
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Iffy, they've promised to send this to the Doctor. I'm not doing any more of their legwork unpaid, nor the Doctor's secretary/accountant's.
They should blooming well admit there's an error with one party or the other and deal with eachother! I'm totally innocent in all this and I'm getting the bailiffs round.
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Hold on. I've just spoken to the secretary again and she's agreed to talk to the insurers!
Good grief, will wonders never cease.
I will, of course, treat them how they have treated me and call them over and over again until they confirm that they are satisfied, then I shall ask for written confirmation that they will call off the attack dogs. Then I might bill them for my time if I haven't calmed down sufficiently.
All this a few weeks after I was on the receiving end of a Land Registry cock up which involved me receiving someone else's notification that a County Court Judgement was about to be made registering a charge over my property due to an unpaid debt. The person they were looking for shared my surname, had a Land Registry property reference number one digit different to mine, and lives only 30 miles away. I have been told that they have amended the system and no further action will be taken as it's nothing to do with me, but by heavens I'm not confident that nothing will come of it again.
I think I must have an internal magent for this kind of stuff, like I do for train loonies.
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The insurance company 'say' they have paid but have they? If they won't produce proof it sounds to me as though they are playing for time. I know that this is very unusual behaviour by an insurance company but_ _ _ !!
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Given that "The insurance company are evidently incapable of sending a new on the Doctor. We've asked them about 6 times. How do you imagine they're going to get one to me within 24 hours?" I don't see why you are so convinced that the doc is at fault
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Alanovic
Take a step back, count to ten and calm down.
Easier said than done, but you will then be able to prioritise your actions.
Look at the facts.
You don't know the insurance company ever paid the bill.
You don't know the Doctors office 'lost' it if it was paid.
|The only thing that is certain is that you have 24 hours to prevent further action which will affect you adversely so for the moment THAT is what you need to be dealing with.
Calm down and call the person who threatened that action. Calmly explain the situation as outlined above, and ask what THEIR suggestions are to prevent that action.
A calm head and polite conversation might just get some co-operation on all sides.
Pat
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Ignore her, she is far too rational, and that would be a very boring end to this thread.
Get the can filled up and a box of swan vestas.
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You blokes just want to debate the point instead of getting his bum in gear to do what he should have done 12 hours ago.
Then you can have your debate:)
Pat
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>> Calm down and call the person who threatened that action. Calmly explain the situation as
>> outlined above, and ask what THEIR suggestions are to prevent that action.
>>
>> A calm head and polite conversation might just get some co-operation on all sides.
Pat. I did that yesterday. Did you not read my original post? She told me to call the insurers to ask for proof of payment. I did that. They promised to send it over, there and then, by fax to the Doctor's office.
I called the doctor's secretary to check yesterday at close of business, she did not pick up the phone so I left a message. She did not call me back this morning. So I called again. And left another message. Then finally she returned my messages and told me that she had not received the fax.
I did "get off my bum" and do what I needed to do 12 ours ago, thanks very much. I've been doing it for 16 months.
This morning the doctor's secretary, when she finally returned my second call, asked me to call the insurers again. This had resulted in NOTHING yesterday, how on earth does she think it's going to help today??
I have done everything you suggest, it has not resolved the issue. Calmness and politeness are now out of the window. The secretary has finally agreed to make a phone call to the insurers, I await an update from her but I expect I'll have to chase it a few more times. And I expect there will still be a problem, which I, the CUSTOMER, will be expected to address. Again.
Bah. I worked for years in Customer Service, I'd have been fired for acting like this.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 20 Jan 11 at 13:20
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>
>> Bah. I worked for years in Customer Service, I'd have been fired for acting like
>> this.
Listen chum, they can get as shirty as they like when YOU - yes thats YOU - haven't paid them.
Its not their responsibility to chase YOUR insurers.
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That is not what my insurers say, chum. They are aghast that I have been contacted in such a manner by the practice. However, they're partly to blame here for not providing the evidence requested several times over.
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>> That is not what my insurers say, chum. They are aghast that I have been
>> contacted in such a manner by the practice. However, they're partly to blame here for
>> not providing the evidence requested several times over.
They can be aghast as they like, you still dont know they have paid them.
Just letting you know how people in "accounts receivable" are entitled to act if they havent been paid.
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They don't "know" they haven't been paid either. And yet they still see fit to issue threats.
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how do you know they dont know?
There is a good chance they know they haven't been paid, you think they would have checked the accounts perhaps? you know the pace where the money goes? or doesent?
Now assume you did some work for someone, and 18 months later you havent been paid. You gonna get upset?
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They've told me they don't know because they are refusing to check their records. They say it's too much bother for them, and they might not be able to find it anyway as it may well have been paid in a batch with other payments. In other words, they don't know. And yet they still shriek that I must prove it has been paid and threaten me with bailiffs. Lousy shower of so and sos.
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Ah well, in that case they cant prove they haven't been paid.
Tell them to sod off, and bring on the balifs.
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I don't want bailiffs at my house. They came once at the behest of the VAT man - who had lost a piece of paper from me and similarly claimed not to have been paid. They, however, didn't tell me they were going to send bailiffs. They just did. I showed the nice men who tried to force their way through my door my proof of payment in the form of bank statement and a photocopy of the paperwork which the VAT man had lost. They scarpered, I don't want them back again for someone else's mistake.
Like I say, I must be a magnet for this sort of aggro.
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>>Where's Mapmaker to tell me it's all my own fault.
What he's actually going to say is that they can threaten you with baliffs in 24 hours all they like; but the reality is they will have to go through the County Court before that happens, so they're not going to be turning up for several weeks yet. It's just the accountant rattling his sabre.
So calm down!
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>> What he's actually going to say is that they can threaten you with baliffs in
>> 24 hours all they like; but the reality is they will have to go through
>> the County Court before that happens, so they're not going to be turning up for
>> several weeks yet. It's just the accountant rattling his sabre.
>>
>> So calm down!
I've been going to say something along those lines all day. A judgement and a warrant would be required before, for example the seizure of goods. Good practice requires a clearly expressed letter before action and then of course the court will issue a summons.
However, there is othing to stop a debt collector calling tomorrow. Alanovich would be quite justified in telling such an individual to push off but they're persistent blighters and know exactly how far they can go. They also have a nasty habit of turning up while the putative defendant is absent and trying to put the screws on other members of the family.
But in general I'd agree the don't panic approach. Persist with your insurer in pushing for proof of payment (surely they can track the Dr's invoive by number, date, billing address etc!!!!
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Haven't you got anything bar telephone calls as a record? No letters, or e-mails?
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No, I suppose I'm stupid enough to trust that when someone says they're going to do something, they will do it.
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And to think the government are handing over the running of the NHS to this lot.........
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It's not a huge bill. If this doesn't get sorted today, I'm going to walk in there tomorrow with payment in full, in 1p and 2p pieces.
Then, I shall drive to the insurance company, get the proof of payment from them, and take it round to the Doctor's office next week, after they've banked the pennies, and ask for my money back in cheque form. I shall do all of this dressed in nothing but a Borat Mankini. I am not a conventionally attractive man. This should ensure prompt resolution.
Well, that's what I feel like doing anyway. I'll try to leave the Zippo at home.
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>> It's not a huge bill. If this doesn't get sorted today, I'm going to walk
>> in there tomorrow with payment in full, in 1p and 2p pieces.
Ok as long as the bill's not more than 40p
www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx
:)
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See, the calm down talk worked, you're getting a sense of humour back:)
Pat
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That's one thing I never lose, Pat. My temper, however, well let's say I live up to the redhead stereotype.
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I could tell you have red hair from your posts :)
Seriously though, have another look at it now.....it may be something will look a bit different.
Pat
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>> Rats.
>>
Ah, but the definition of 'legal tender' is very narrow, from the same web page:-
"It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. "
Keep saving the coppers.
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>> It's not a huge bill. If this doesn't get sorted today, I'm going to walk
>> in there tomorrow with payment in full, .............
Ask a solicitor for advice as to what to do.
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>> Whose rose garden should be getting a visit from me, my Zippo and my 5l
>> can of unleaded?
>>
>>
5 litres of unleaded?! Cheaper to just pay the bill... ;-)
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That's about the most sensible thing I've read in this thread.
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Why don't you pay the bill and inform the insurers then claim the money back from the insurers via the small claims court plus interest/compensation for stress.
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>> Why don't you pay the bill .............
That may be construed as accepting/admitting liability.
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>> That may be construed as accepting/admitting liability.
There is no dispute about receiving service, therefore he is liable. At the end of the day, if his insirance company refuse to pay, he can be sued.
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if his insirance company refuse to pay,
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Can you read? THEY. SAY. THAT. THEY. HAVE. PAID. The payee is refusing to check their records.
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YOU CANT PROVE THAT EITHER
DONT SHOUT AT ME, YOU
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 20 Jan 11 at 14:54
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No, I can't. So where's the justification for threatening to send the boys round to me when neither of the other two parties can prove anything yet?
If you don't want to be shouted at, don't act deaf.
And there's no need for personal abuse either.
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You've wound him up again now Z:)
Pat
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>> You've wound him up again now Z:)
>>
>> Pat
Yeah, its taken awhile after all the calming down rubbish of yours ;)
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>> No, I can't. So where's the justification for threatening to send the boys round to
>> me when neither of the other two parties can prove anything yet?
.*******
They say YOU havent paid and YOU cant prove you have. So they get heavy, dont forget its been a long while.
On the other hand, if they take you to court, they cant prove they havent been paid.
good init.
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>> They say YOU havent paid and YOU cant prove you have. So they get heavy,
>> dont forget its been a long while.
>>
>> On the other hand, if they take you to court, they cant prove they havent
>> been paid.
>>
>> good init.
>>
I agree with Zero, apart from one point: "they cant prove they havent been paid."
How can you prove that negative, except just say that you haven't been paid. It is for the customer to prove positively that he (or his insurer) did pay. In this case, the insurance company may have sent a cheque but it may never have arrived, or been lost in the Doctor's office, or there may have been a wrong bookkeeping entry. The problem will be solved if/when the insurance company provides proof to Alanovic that the payment was made on his behalf. Until then, Alanovic remains liable.
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>> YOU CANT PROVE THAT EITHER
>>
>> DONT SHOUT AT ME, YOU
>>
As Harry Hill would say .......... FIGHT.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 20 Jan 11 at 14:54
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>> if his insirance company refuse to pay,
>> >>
>>
>> Can you read? THEY. SAY. THAT. THEY. HAVE. PAID. The payee is refusing to check
>> their records.
>>
The onus may be on the payer to provide proof of payment rather than on the payee to provide proof of receipt. I say "may" because I don't know for certain. Consult a solicitor.
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if it was for less than £1oo i would consider paying it for the least stress and then look to recoup my money via the legal help on my home insurance
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Great suggestion BB. It's more than £100, but not much.
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One more call to the insurers yesterday afternoon to request proof to be sent to the practice, three further follow up calls to the practice to check for receipt. All three times they have failed to answer, I have left messages but they still have not called back.
I'm going to pay the practice a visit this afternoon to resolve the situation in person. I promise to leave the Zippo at home. To say I'm sick to death of the way I'm being mucked about is putting it lightly.
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>> I'm going to pay the practice a visit this afternoon to resolve the situation in
>> person. I promise to leave the Zippo at home. To say I'm sick to death
>> of the way I'm being mucked about is putting it lightly.
>>
I was threatened with bailiffs by NTL for non-payment after their accounts department had messed up their records. I complained direct to the CEO and told him that I would take out one of these:
www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal-information/injunctions/what-is-an-anti-harassment-injunction.html
By return phone call, email, plus snailmail, I was given assurances that it would be sorted out promptly and I was paid £100 as a gesture of goodwill.
Last edited by: John H on Fri 21 Jan 11 at 12:43
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Good darts, John H. Like it. May well do that if they can't sort this out today.
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>> Good darts, John H. Like it. May well do that if they can't sort this
>> out today.
>>
Well, what happened then?
Last edited by: John H on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 15:22
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Sorry, forgot to update this as I have since calmed down (2002 Golf passing its MOT with no advisories today has cheered me up, as have thoughts of Glynis Barber).
I paid a visit in person to the Doctor's practice on Friday afternoon and asked to see the secretary, the one who had been issuing the threatening letters.
I stood in front of her desk, introduced myself politley and asked if she had yet received confirmation of payment (I had phoned ahead to announce my imminent arrival, but could only leave a voicemail as usual). She said yes, and I then noticed 3 copies of the same fax on her desk from my insurers. Her voicemail light was blinking on the phone and I asked why she had not returned any of my 4 voicemails in the last 24 hours. Apparently, she was just too busy to listen to her messages.
Gotta love private health care.
Case closed.
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>> Gotta love private health care.
>>
That will teach you to go to the private health sector. They can't get the admin staff these days as all the secure and better paid jobs with pension and overtime etc. perks are in the NHS. You should have waited your 18 weeks, or whatever target nuLabour had set, for your turn.
:-)
Last edited by: John H on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 15:36
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>>
>> Case closed.
>>
Nothing else I can wind you up about?
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I'm sure something will be along shortly, Zero. Things that wind me up are like landings at Heathrow. One every minute or so.
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No need to buy a beige Skoda but speak softly and carry a big stick Alanović......
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I didn't know Roosevelt had a beige Skoda?
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@ PU - I find that when I speak softly, I get ignored and nothing gets done. Then I end up being threatened with debt collectors.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 15:51
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SFAIK Bailiffs can call at your house but are not allowed to force entry. Quote
"Can a bailiff force his/her way into my house?
Most bailiffs do not have the right to force their way into your home to seize your goods. The only exception is that bailiffs from the Collector of Taxes (Inland Revenue) can get a warrant to force entry, but this is very rare"
Thus not applicable to a doctor's bill
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I had bailiffs call a couple of times due to a fraud perpetrated by a shop manager.
I point blank refused them entry the first time and calmly pointed out I wasn't the person named and the address wasn't quite right.
The second time I 'happened' to be drying-up a large kitchen knife. They reversed rapidly down the garden path.
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>> The second time I 'happened' to be drying-up a large kitchen knife. They reversed rapidly
>> down the garden path.
>>
Surprised that the second visit wasn't very quickly followed by a third visit but from the BIB......... They tend to take a dim view of sharp pointy bits of metal being waved around, these days.
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Doctor's office/insurance company payment balls up - Zero
