Non-motoring > David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Falkirk Bairn	Replies: 97

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:28   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

£13000 expenses claims = 18 months inside - he used to have a MP seat - now he has a bed courtesy of HMP www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/8246187/MPs-expenses-David-Chaytor-sentenced-to-18-months-in-prison-for-false-accounting.html Is 18 months enough? Assuming he behaves he will be out in 9 months Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:30   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Ian (Cape Town)

Ok, so his credibility is shot, and as a crim, he has to give up all those directorships... Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:32   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - RattleandSmoke

Even 9 months inside is a long time, time goes by much slower in prison I would imagine. And when he gets out his life is wrecked. Hopefully his future will be flat 67, floor 43, Nelson Mandela House, Peckham. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:34   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

Interesting gent. According to Wikipedia (so this may be total rubbish): "Chaytor’s main political interests are in the Environment, Education, Transport and Foreign Affairs. In the 1997–2001 Parliament he was a Member of the Environmental Audit Select Committee and in January 2000 he received the Green Ribbon award as best environmentalist backbencher in the House of Commons. He was a member of the Education & Skills Select Committee and the Environmental Audit Select Committee. He voted against the government on the privatisation of the National Air Traffic Services, and announced his intention to vote against the last clause of the Gambling Bill. Although he was educated under the Direct Grant system at Bury Grammar School, Chaytor is Chairman of Comprehensive Future, an organisation set up to end selection in British schools. He chaired the All Party Group for Intelligent Energy, and co-chaired the All Party Group for Further Education and Lifelong Learning. He was the Secretary of Globe UK, the British branch of the international network of environmentalist parliamentarians." I might add that I am sorry that he got a custodial sentence. I don't think there was anything to be gained by jailing him. Last edited by: tyro on Fri 7 Jan 11 at 15:38 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:39   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - RattleandSmoke

Other than the fact it sends a message to other MPs? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:44   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Ian (Cape Town)

>> Other than the fact it sends a message to other MPs? >> and anyone else who wants to pass false invoices. Uttering, isn't it? Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:48   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Stuu

Seems about right. You have to fiddle pretty seriously to end up inside, so if thats what they reckon he deserves, so be it. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:49   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - RattleandSmoke

It is fraud really from I can work out. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:50   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - madf

18 months is very unfair. Theft of over £200k should deserve two years plus. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:53   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

"Other than the fact it sends a message to other MPs?" To be honest, I don't think that is a great benefit. Simply being convicted and splashed across the front of the papers has a pretty big deterrent effect on MPs. I don't think that giving someone a custodial sentence purely to send messages to other people is right - since it comes close to making an example of someone, and exemplary justice is, in my opinion, flies in the face of basic principles of equity, because the essence of exemplary justice is "You may not deserve this, it may not be appropriate for you, but we want to send a signal to other people." His crime was one of acquiring money by dishonest means; therefore the appropriate punishment should be monetary. IMHO. By all means give him a severe sentence, and one that would have a deterrent effect, and would send a message to other potential fraudsters - but why does it have to be custodial? Last edited by: tyro on Fri 7 Jan 11 at 15:54 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:58   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Tooslow

"The former MP is now facing a large legal bill for both his defence and the costs of bringing the prosecution " serve him right. "But Chaytor's lawyer insisted that if he had submitted the claims properly, he would have been "entitled to every penny, if not more than he claimed"." Ha ha. Still wriggling? The three awaiting trial must be wetting themselves. John Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 15:59   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Ian (Cape Town)

>> By all means give him a severe sentence, and one that would have a deterrent >> effect, and would send a message to other potential fraudsters - but why does it >> have to be custodial? >> Beacuse it is very easy to write a cheque. It is difficult and frightening when that cell door goes clang. Ask anyone who has done (even brief) time. Maybe next time Mr Chytor, who was hardly the epitome of truth and honesty in his dealings with the House OR with the CPS, ponders whether to to try to get something he ain't entitled to, he may just resist the temptation, remembering his months of porridge. His honorable frinds Archer and Aitken learned the hard way - you don't lie and cheat when you are an MP. He did. Got nicked, got sent down. Last edited by: Webmaster on Fri 7 Jan 11 at 17:54 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 16:25   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

Deterrent sentence without a doubt. As a comparison, a 'routine' benefits fraudster who falsely claims anything up to £20,000 will not generally go to prison. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 16:30   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - madf

Only 649 to go. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 16:34   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

Only 649 to go. Is that for their expenses claims, or because they're MPs? :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 7 Jan 11 16:37   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...Only 649 to go... Unhappily, that's only a slight exaggeration. Having said that, if you put a nice, deep, well-filled trough in the sty, you can't be surprised when nearly all the pigs bury their snouts in it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 06:26   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

According to the BBC website he could be out by the end of MAY - barely 4 months time. He would then be tagged and given a curfew......................... Surely if the Judge said 18 months it should be more than 4 months The prisonss are full and they need the space.............. Does anyone know if he has forfeited his MP Gold Plated pension? Private companies etc withdraw all pension monies other than the money paid by the employee when employees are found to have been on the fiddle. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 08:35   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

> By all means give him a severe sentence, and one that would have a deterrent >> effect, and would send a message to other potential fraudsters - but why does it >> have to be custodial? "Beacuse it is very easy to write a cheque. It is difficult and frightening when that cell door goes clang." The latter statement is clearly true, and not under debate. With regard to the former, it depends how many zeros are at the end of the cheque. But in theory, it doesn't have to be just a matter of writing a cheque. I would have in mind something like * complete loss of parliamentary pension * complete loss of state pension * no eligibility for any tax-payer funded benefits - for life. And, of course a cheque. For a 5 figure sum. Assets to be sold immediately to ensure that it is payed. I think that would be send a pretty clear message. I think it would have a fairly strong deterrent effect on other MPs. And it would also be a lot more profitable for the tax-payer than a custodial sentence. I still see nothing to be gained by a custodial sentence. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 09:16   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - smokie

Not sure on the loss of pension question but I think he has quite considerable legal expenses too. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 10:22   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Perky Penguin

May be eligible for release in 4 1/2 months onto a "Home Detention Curfew" = whatever that is!!! Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:07   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...onto a "Home Detention Curfew" = whatever that is!!!.... A tag. As regards the pension, I believe there is a committee which looks into the pension rights of those with gold-plated publicly funded pensions who end up in prison. On the one hand, the sentence of the court is 18 months jail, not '18 months jail and by the way we'll have that pension off you'. On the other, there is widespread unease that a criminal should still be able to claim the extravagant benefits of a scheme which bear so little relation to what he has paid in. One of the problems of promising someone bucketfuls of public cash for doing nothing. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:09   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - smokie

The Thunderer today says he may keep his Commons pension plus the £54000 golden goodbye. It says he owns 5 properties and also has a pension from his lecturing career. It says his defence bill is £21k and he will be expected to make a contribution towards his prosecution costs. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:19   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Robin O'Reliant

Those who seek high office and place themselves in a position of judgement and regulation over a country's citizens have a duty to display an exemplary standard of behaviour. To swindle those citizens out of their money is a serious breech of trust and deserves to be harshly punished. Chaytor was a member of a government that oversaw the system of imprisoning those who fell foul of the law and was responsible for the conditions in which prisoners are forced to exist. It is right and proper that he himself should now experience those conditions, having shown he is no better than any of those who already do. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:25   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...also has a pension from his lecturing career... In other words, never had a proper job in his life. Not that I can blame the guy for taking advantage of a system which richly rewards those who never do anything useful. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:31   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

Are you seriously saying that those who make their living from teaching do not have proper jobs? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:40   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...Are you seriously saying that those who make their living from teaching do not have proper jobs?... Not quite, but I know of several lecturers who are well-paid but who get away with doing next to nothing. A pal of mine - who was used to working in the private sector - took some part-time lecturing work at a university and couldn't believe how slack the place was. The educational standards reached by many school leavers are truly abysmal. That is not entirely the fault of teachers, but something is failing somewhere, big time. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 11:47   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Zero

Its not the amount, or the abuse of expenses, its the fact he deliberately falsified receipts. That shows a knowledge of wrongdoing, a deliberate attempt to falsify, lying, cheating, a concerted effort to get money, which frankly a man in his position doesn't really need. He abused a position of trust, brought shame upon democracy with a belief he was beyond the law because of his position, one he abused. was 18 months enough? Last edited by: Zero on Sat 8 Jan 11 at 11:47 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 13:02   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

was 18 months enough? A good question, RF. You've got me thinking. He's gone to a place where he gets a roof over his head, free heat and light, free food, free healthcare, free entertainment, and, no doubt, free education and training. A socialist paradise. Everything you could want except freedom. In other words, exactly the sort of society that the Blair and Brown administrations were in the process of creating. And of course, inside, he'll be mixing with exactly the same type of people that he has been mixing with in the House of Commons for years. Enough? Of course not! This man should be punished!! And if you are a socialist, punishment isn't taking away your freedom, it is taking away your free state benefits, your free heat and light, your free food, your free healthcare, your free entertainment. And of course your free (and compulsory) education and training. The man, I say, should be punished. Really punished. And a custodial sentence in a British jail just is not the answer. ;-) p.s. Excuse the exclamation marks. I got carried away. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 12:11   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

"I know of several lecturers who are well-paid but who get away with doing next to nothing. A pal of mine - who was used to working in the private sector - took some part-time lecturing work at a university and couldn't believe how slack the place was." Your observations are quite correct, but don't quite prove the conclusion that you drew. The fact of the matter is that in education (at least state sector education) in the UK - and this applies to primary, secondary, and tertiary education - there is little that can be done about people who are bone idle. In our local secondary school, there are teachers who work themselves to the bone, and there are those who, in your own words, "get away with doing next to nothing." One of the reasons why some of us wonder if we should have any state sector education at all in the UK. (But if David Chaytor were to read that sentence, he'd probably have apoplexy and need to be confined for the rest of his life in an institution for the insane, which would make the matter of his custodial sentence a matter of irrelevance!) Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 12:19   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...One of the reasons why some of us wonder if we should have any state sector education at all in the UK... I've often had the same thought. I would certainly seriously consider abolishing compulsory attendance. Only pupils who wanted to learn would then be taught in fewer schools by teachers who wanted to teach. It would also come as a blessed relief to the remaining teaching staff who would no longer be tasked with warehousing increasingly violent and unruly youngsters. This would enable vast savings to be made as the number of school places - and teachers and support staff - required would be greatly reduced. The education budget at local and national level is truly enormous and out of hand in my view. Last edited by: Iffy on Sat 8 Jan 11 at 12:21 Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sat 8 Jan 11 12:25   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - tyro

"I would certainly seriously consider abolishing compulsory attendance." Dunno if you've arrived yet, but you're moving in the right direction, iffy. ;-) Last edited by: tyro on Sat 8 Jan 11 at 12:26 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 19:07   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - paulb

>> I still see nothing to be gained by a custodial sentence. >> Sends the message: "be you ever so high, the law is above you" (thanks to Lord Denning for that one) Financial penalties are all well and good (providing he has the means and/or assets to pay them - and if he doesn't they're a waste of time) but this kind of mucking around in a public office, where all dealings should be utterly beyond reproach, deserves something a bit stronger in my view. Plus if it puts a few others off poncing money to which they aren't entitled, the cost to the taxpayer of his incarceration may be covered that way. The stripping of privileges is a good one, though. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 8 Jan 11 13:58   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Manatee

No I don't want to keep him for 18 months or even 9. He has a criminal conviction and his integrity is shot, a severe punishment for a man in his position. No useful purpose is served by locking him up, we would be better off with him paying a fine, earning and paying tax. Reserve the prison places for those carrying out personal and violent crimes. Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 8 Jan 11 at 14:00 Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 11 Jan 11 13:12   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Bromptonaut

And another, this one a sitting Member. Eric Illsley, MP for Barnsley, has today altered his plea to guilty. Sentence defferred for four weeks but must belooking at a custodial stretch similar to Chaytor. Cannot see how he can avoid standing down. Sentence of over 12months will disqualify him anyway but surely any time away from house/constituency would be unnacceptable. www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jan/11/mp-eric-illsley-admits-charges Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 11 Jan 11 13:18   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...but surely any time away from house/constituency would be unnacceptable... There you go again, Bromponaut, assuming everyone takes your responsible attitude to public service. A local councillor in Darlington, County Durham, was found to be living in the Caribbean. The exact ins and outs escape me, but I think he was safe from disqualification if he made it to two or three meetings a year. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 11 Jan 11 13:33   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - BiggerBadderDave

I see that the fire extinguisher boy got 32 months. I can't make up my mind as to whether that's harsh or not. He was clearly acting like a prick for those few seconds but ultimately there was no actual harm done. Part of me enjoys seeing a scruffy yob take a good kicking but some of me can't help but feel sorry for a frightened 18-year old who's going to be crying into his pillow for the next few months. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 11 Jan 11 13:40   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...I see that the fire extinguisher boy got 32 months... That's a fair stretch for an 18-year-old, but violent disorder is one of those nasty offences - from the offenders' view - which merits an immediate lock-up. I think the maximum is five years, no doubt the lad would have liked to have got away with the lesser charge of affray, which people initially charged with VD sometimes do. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12159581 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 11 Jan 11 13:41   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Zero

So what would have been appropriate had the several kilos of metal pushed a coppers head out through his a rse? That could so easily have been the outcome. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 11 Jan 11 14:15   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Stuu

There are plenty of people who despite their misgivings about the world, do not resort to violence. Thats why they are not in prison and those who do think violence is OK, are likely to end up there. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 11 Jan 11 16:37   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Robin O'Reliant

Taking a fire extinguisher onto the roof and throwing it down when you know there are people below is more than just a moment of madness, he can have no complaints. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 11 Jan 11 16:51   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - CGNorwich

As the judge said sentence is a warning to others. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 8 Feb 11 21:20   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Bromptonaut

Illsley's finally found his sword and fallen on it:- www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-12400076 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 8 Feb 11 22:20   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

Jim Devine, EX MP Livingston, is fighting his corner in Southwark Court but according to the BBC News he is in a tight corner. Having fought the case if he has relinquished the right to a lighter sentence by pleading guilty. If guilty he must be looking at 1/3 ot 1/2 more than David Chaytor got - looking at 3 yrs PLUS. he asked for receipts for receipted (paid with thanks) bills for monies not paid on goods (printing) that had not been supplied. Tricky defending that one I would hazzard to guess. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 8 Feb 11 23:55   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - SteelSpark

>> I see that the fire extinguisher boy got 32 months. I can't make up my >> mind as to whether that's harsh or not. He was clearly acting like a prick >> for those few seconds but ultimately there was no actual harm done. I never quite understand the "no harm done" argument. I've seen it a few times on this forum in response to claims of dangerous driving, something along the lines of "yeah that was dangerous and could have killed you and your family, but it didn't happen, so what's the problem?" Personally I think that you should be punished for your actions, not necessarily their outcomes. If I aim a gun at your head and pull the trigger, but miss by an inch, my actions and intentions are the same as if the bullet made contact and killed you - yet I would likely receive a much lower prison sentence. Am I any less morally culpable simply because I am a lousy shot? If not, why am I treated any more leniently? Same thing with why somebody shouldn't be absolutely outraged that their safety was put at risk by the wilfully dangerous actions of another on the road, even if everybody drives away unscathed. Just a thought. Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 8 Feb 11 at 23:56 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 10 Feb 11 12:20   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

Jim Devine Guilty over £9k cash fiddle - 2b sentenced later Looks like we will need an MP's wing attached to the Scrubs or where they decide to send them - 2 x down, 2 likely going down for expenses - how many more are in the wings? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 10 Feb 11 20:58   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

Ex MP for Barnsley =Illsey got 12 months for £14K Maybe Jim Devine will get less for only £9K - then again Illsey pleaded guilty, Devine elected for a Jury trial! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 11:29   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - smokie

I see Mr Devine has now gone financially bankrupt as well as morally. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-12551359 Guess that means he will escape any fines arising from his guilt in the expenses "scandal". I wonder if his wife now owns any assets which maybe used to belong to him? Last edited by: smokie on Wed 23 Feb 11 at 11:31 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 12:49   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

He was well-paid, and a passenger on the most generous gravy train in Britain, and he's still managed to go skint. And go to prison (probably). Quite an achievement. Last edited by: Iffy on Wed 23 Feb 11 at 12:50 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 13:07   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Tooslow

Are any of them out yet? :-) John Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 14:18   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - smokie

Chaytor is wriggling more than a wriggly thing. He seems to still be in Wandsworth though. "MPs' expenses: David Chaytor to challenge sentence" www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12555903 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 14:43   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Perky Penguin

So far as I can see this was not a one off error in his paperwork but a deliberate attempt to claim money to which he was not entitled at all - not boosting a legitimate claim but 3 seperate frauds. One relating to non-existent IT contracts and 2 relating to rental of properties he owned or in which had an interest. Prison is well deserved and I hope he is not enjoying it. Broken man my sit upon! He should try 6 months in Afghanistan and coming back with no legs if he wants to experience "Broken" Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 15:36   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - Falkirk Bairn

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12819553 18 mths for £20K fraud looked a light sentence to many - obviously not David Chaytor Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 15:59   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - Injection Doc

My heart bleeds for him ! I think not! lets hope they realise they have been to leanient and extend his stay ! Lesson to other MPs Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 10:53   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - Bromptonaut

Appeal refused. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12831200 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 13:23   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - FotheringtonTomas

Lord Judge, the Lord Chief Justice, said: "the ex-politician was “calculating”, adding: “He knew exactly what he was doing.” “The element of dishonesty is not simply inflated claims for expenses, but rather the careful preparation of bogus claims, supported by bogus documents. “In truth they were bogus from start to finish" the MP had “known all along that he had been dishonest” and only changed his plea when he ran out of options. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 31 Mar 11 11:07   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - Falkirk Bairn

Jim Devine, Ex MP Livingston gets 16 months for his expenses fiddles. Next Month Lord Taylor gets his sentence Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 7 Apr 11 21:43   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - Bromptonaut

Elliot Morley has pleaded guilty to charges involving up to £30k. Sentence next month. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12996049 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 May 11 15:29   David Chaytor Ex MP APPEALS for sentence reduction - Bromptonaut

>> Elliot Morley has pleaded guilty to charges involving up to £30k. Sentence next month. >> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12996049 Sixteen months www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/20/mps-expenses-elliot-morley-sentenced Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 26 May 11 18:17   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Focusless

>> Is 18 months enough? Assuming he behaves he will be out in 9 months Out now, after serving 'almost a third' (5 months I think) of his sentence: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13560351 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 26 May 11 19:02   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...Out now, after serving 'almost a third' (5 months I think) of his sentence:... About right, three months early on a tag, plus another month which the government added when overcrowding was at its most recent peak. Forget what they called it, some flam or other, but the result is a half less four months. Makes a mockery of the shorter 12 to 18 month sentences. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 26 May 11 21:51   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

ww.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8538585/Lord-Hanningfiel d-found-guilty-of-expenses-fraud.html This time another Lord guilty - Lord Hanningfield - another one, Lord Taylor gets sentenced next week Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 26 May 11 22:21   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Leif

>> ww.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8538585/Lord-Hanningfiel >> d-found-guilty-of-expenses-fraud.html >> >> >> This time another Lord guilty - Lord Hanningfield - another one, Lord Taylor gets sentenced >> next week And most of them are whining at how unfair it is. What they really mean is that others got away with it, they didn't. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 May 11 00:01   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Stuartli

>>another one, Lord Taylor gets sentenced next week>> Strange isn't it? He used to be on the Sky and BBC News TV press preview programmes which are on late evening and came across as a thoroughly decent and likeable bloke..... Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 May 11 06:10   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...Strange isn't it?.... Strang guy, according to this story in the Telegraph: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/8290284/Lord-Taylor-the-strange-tale-of-the-convicted-peer-and-his-24-day-marriage-to-a-wealthy-businesswoman.html And I see Lord Sugar showed the common sense of a two-year-old during the trial: www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/26/alan-sugar-twitter-message Last edited by: Iffy on Fri 27 May 11 at 06:10 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 31 May 11 12:41   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Focusless

>> This time another Lord guilty - Lord Hanningfield - another one, Lord Taylor gets sentenced >> next week Taylor gets 12 months: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13599624 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 May 12 19:35   Lord Taylor barred lawyer and living off handouts - Falkirk Bairn

Lord Taylor banned as barrister, unemployable and living off handouts from friends................. Just shows the fines and short prison sentence was only the beginning of his sentence............your good name is worth more than any expense fiddle. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9290580/Lord-Taylor-banned-from-legal-profession-following-expenses-scandal.html Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 May 12 20:07   Lord Taylor barred lawyer and living off handouts - Zero

I would suspect he is not destitute. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 May 12 20:08   Lord Taylor barred lawyer and living off handouts - Zero

I would suspect he is not destitute. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 1 Jul 11 16:30   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

Lord Hanningfield - 9 months for fiddling £14K www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13989329 How many more? Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 1 Jul 11 16:44   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Zero

Lord Knows. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 1 Jul 11 17:22   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Dutchie

As a guess the majority have been fiddling the books and got away with it. Hyprocrites. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 28 Oct 11 07:46   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Falkirk Bairn

Another Court case - £80K this time news.aol.co.uk/main-news/story/ex-mp-on-a-80-000-expenses-charges/2014865/ Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 28 Oct 11 08:21   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...Another Court case - £80K this time... The only reason she sobbed in the dock last time is she knows what happened to the others - prison. This is her first appearance at crown court. The charges should be put, so we may get an indication if there is to be any hook-wriggling. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 28 Oct 11 10:38   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Bromptonaut

>> The charges should be put, so we may get an indication if there is to >> be any hook-wriggling. Doubt she'll plead guilty. Like Chaytor this one seems to involve evidence of falsified invoices, not just creative travel and 'forgetfulness' where relevant changes of circumstance are concerned. That 'granny' figure snapped at the Mags court is not recognisable as the same person in the previous library pictures; they showed a glamorous lady in early middle age. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 28 Oct 11 11:06   David Cheater ex-MP, sorry Chaytor, gets 18 months - Iffy

...That 'granny' figure snapped at the Mags court is not recognisable as the same person in the previous library pictures; they showed a glamorous lady in early middle age... There may be a recognition her long-term future is also bleak. Unlikely she will be able to, er, acquire, the income she did as an MP. If she is not guilty, I'm sure we all hope she pleads so and is acquitted. As a general point, I have seen a few middle-aged thieves who are guilty and plead so, because they lack the mental toughness to fight it. Trying to negate a criminal allegation - particularly if it's true - requires an inner strength which few of us possess. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 6 Sep 11 13:01   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Falkirk Bairn

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14804698 Last MP on list - Biggest number of charges There may well be a few MPs and ex MPs going about breathing a big sigh of relief at Moran being the last one to face charges. What do you think? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 6 Sep 11 15:25   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Roger.

I think there are still MPs who should be facing charges of financial malfeasance. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 6 Sep 11 19:44   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Dutchie

The majority have been on the take,there wouldn't be any left to kid us on. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 28 Oct 11 14:32   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Roger.

Here's another greedy trougher! order-order.com/2011/10/27/prezz-a-manger/ Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 28 Oct 11 14:51   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Bromptonaut

Interesting reading Roger. Mind you the Grauniad reports today that Maggie T spends half a million a year as 'ex Prime Minister'. Logically I can see where it goes. I'm sure she's the sort of ex PM the punters love to write to and neither staff to handle the stuff nor the office space to accomadate them come cheap. But I suspect Guido's left wing oppos could make mischief with it. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 28 Oct 11 at 14:52 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Dec 11 20:32   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Falkirk Bairn

Ms Moran is now pleading to be exempted from court due to health grounds................. LEGAL FEES TO BE RECOVERED FROM SOME MISCREANTS www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16203947 Some MPs faced with legal fees and prosecution costs - Chaytor, Morley & Illsey................Jim Devine is a bankrupt and will not be chased as the ££ cupboard is bare in his case Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 14:19   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Bromptonaut

The court has considered evidence and found Margaret Moran unfit to plead. www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-moran-fitness-to-plead.pdf A jury will however still have to 'determine whether the Defendant did the acts alleged by the prosecution' Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 14:52   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - madf

No doubt Margaret Moran is doing a Saunders and will miraculously recover... Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 15:09   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Roger.

order-order.com/2012/04/27/margaret-morans-80000-sick-note/ Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 15:13   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Old Navy

I know a couple of people who have had miraculous recoveries having won substantial damages for injury. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 20:55   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Iffy

...A jury will however still have to 'determine whether the Defendant did the acts alleged by the prosecution'... Playing the mad card may be a good tactic for Moran, but there are risks. If the jury decides she did the acts complained of, the court still needs to dispose of the case. Almost inevitably, the disposal will be a medical one which means Moran could, in theory, be sent to a secure mental health unit. Unlikely in her case, but I did one earlier this week of an unfit to plead serial sexual assaulter. Jury found he did the act complained of and the judge sent to a semi-secure unit, which for him may be preferable to prison. Moran might end up with a court ordered mental health treatment programme, although she will probably keep her liberty. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 20:59   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - R.P.

I'd be surprised given the nature of the offence, she's either truly potty or had some canny adivce... Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 21:12   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Iffy

Once the 'mental health professionals' get their talons into you, your life is no longer your own. So it may not be all bread and circuses for Moran, although as you say, she may be truly potty. Until fairly recently, that was also decided by a jury, or at least, the 'fitness to plead' side of it was. Another point is being unfit to plead and being truly potty need not be the same things, although some defendants are both. The barrister for the sexual assaulter told me afterwards the man was, in his opinion, genuinely bonkers. One would like to think the medics who now assess these things are not easily fooled. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 21:32   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Bromptonaut

>> I'd be surprised given the nature of the offence, she's either truly potty or had >> some canny adivce... The judgement mentions underlying issues. The late sis out law had bi-polar disorder and I've met a few others the same. My mental health radar is picking up same vibes with Ms Moran. On a long high during the MP career but now crashed to earth or lower. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 22:42   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Dutchie

Genuine mental illness is destructive and live destroying.I know people with bi-polar and similair mental illness.Not nice to be in. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 27 Apr 12 23:26   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - R.P.

It's very easy to become "mentally ill" for a number of reasons - extreme stress is one of them. A number of people I know and worked with in various roles were ex-Falklands for example - one was particularly disturbed by events there to become mentally ill, the other two seemingly not despite seeing some horrendous stuff....it depends on your nature how you deal with stuff...I went through a horrific event and came out the other side changed but not ill in any describable way - I wouldn't say it hasn't effected me on a day to day basis.... Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 28 Apr 12 05:04   Margaret Moran, ex-MP- charged with 21 counts - Armel Coussine

No offence and so on comrades, but in a long life I have observed that everything squirms on the skewer, if it's still alive. There's something about being hunted down that makes people dispense with the niceties. Not defending anyone of course. Just an observation. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 May 12 20:15   Baroness Warsi fails to fully declare rental incom - henry k

The co-chair of the Conservative party, Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, has admitted not fully declaring rental income from a flat she owns in West London. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18223324 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 May 12 20:21   Baroness Warsi fails to fully declare rental incom - Mapmaker

So what (I was annoyed upon reading your post, but no longer having read the article). I think the register of Members' interests is invidious. Nobody should get to know about another individual's income in respect of something so normal and trivial. Rubbish like this puts good people off becoming MPs. Who here would be prepared to put their private lives under the spotlights (children, parents, siblings, friends etc. etc.) and become an MP? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 May 12 20:38   Baroness Warsi fails to fully declare rental incom - Harleyman

I think the register of Members' interests is invidious. Nobody should get to know >> about another individual's income in respect of something so normal and trivial. >> >> Rubbish like this puts good people off becoming MPs. And holds the bad ones who already are in check. Whilst I concede that a lot of the press coverage after the Daily Telegraph's exposure of corruption (there is no other name for it) was frivolous, so were a lot of the claims. Cat food, duck houses, moat cleaning, and worst of all the cynical exploitation of privelege by those who are paid handsomely to represent our interests. We may not be prepared to become MP's, but a lot of people are, and regrettably these days it seems to be more for the perceived benefits to be obtained than from any desire to serve ones country. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sat 26 May 12 23:51   Baroness Warsi fails to fully declare rental incom - smokie

The Beeb TV news just now reported Warsi as staying in a flat in Acton for free for some nights when she claimed £135 (?) overnight allowance, back in 2008. She claimed to have paid rental to a friend who was renting a different part of the house, but no money ever made it's way back to the owner. The friend supports her story. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Sep 13 19:02   Denis Mcshane expenses - hearing bailed for later - Falkirk Bairn

Denis Mcshane expenses - hearing bailed for later in September re expenses and questions over receipts. Mr Mcshane is/was in a relationship with Vicky Pryce, the ex of Huhne............. If you wrote a fictional account of MPS you could not dream that up IMHO Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Sep 13 19:30   Denis Mcshane expenses - hearing bailed for later - Roger.

The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible! Reply to this message | Report message