| Non-motoring > Probate | Legal Questions |
| Thread Author: sooty123 | Replies: 28 |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 17:54
Probate - sooty123
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| Can anyone explain the need for the above process, it was a very long drawn out process that had no point that I could see, the whole thing took 8 months. The will was found quickly and it was very straight forward. Does it do anything apart from an earner for the legal sector? |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:00
Probate - Zero
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PU will be the man here, but IF a will is available and uncomplicated, and the monetary affairs the same, it should be pretty easy and quick. It gets messy tho if the tax man gets his teeth into it. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:07
Probate - Mapmaker
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You should have done it yourself. Make a list of all the assets owned by the deceased. Add up their value. Declare them, pay any IHT, get probate, give them to the beneficiaries. Unless there's a whole load of complications in valuations - family businesses, overseas assets, trust interests, private companies - it should be an afternoon's work, and maybe a month or so to get probate. Of course, it's never that simple. And grief doesn't help. Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 18:07
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:10
Probate - R.P.
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| It should be straightforward - can't understand why it's taken that long. Was it a complex will ? |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:13
Probate - Mapmaker
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| Oh yes, and if you're a solicitor, take a flat 5% of the estate for having done this easy task. It is money for old rope. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:18
Probate - R.P.
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| I would suspect it was an earner, but as Mapmaker points out at a flat rate it don't see why it was stretched out.. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:17
Probate - Fenlander
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You say the will was straightforward sooty but what about the location of funds. Possible property to sell, offshore funds, complicated tax arrangements?? We had dealings with one containing such financial elements 3yrs years ago and were more than happy to pay a solicitor £1000+ to sort it all out.... took nearly 9mths to resolve. The will though was a simple 2-way split. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 18:22
Probate - Armel Coussine
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>> grief doesn't help. Actually, doing the probate yourself can help to deal with the grief. It did in my case. The thought of a shyster taking 4% or whatever it was of his modest estate for shuffling a few papers made me remember my father snarling about sharks (among whom the inland revenue loomed large). Didn't want the old boy spinning in his grave from the off, so I shuffled the papers myself. But as Mm says, it isn't 'that simple'. The law has evolved to be counter-intuitive to the 'reasonable man' who often gives up and hires an expert. I wonder how that came about? (he wondered satirically). |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 19:32
Probate - Stuartli
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I did the probate work myself, once I had summoned up the required effort to do so, after the death of my wife. In all it took no more than two months or so and that included contacting all the financial and other institutions involved. One tip is to obtain extra copies of the death certificate (I had three) and about half-a-dozen of the granting of probate copies (£1 each) to speed up contacting necessary institutions afterwards. Undertaking this task proves therapeutic I found as it keeps you occupied far more than would be the case, as Armel Coussine also points out. Also let HMRC and Pensions offices aware - in my case the latter paid up the balance of the State pension for the month to me. You'll also find that most banks have very helpful booklets about what needs to be done - the Halifax, in my case, was also extremely prompt with providing financial details and transferring account monies as required. Last edited by: Stuartli on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 19:32
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 19:33
Probate - Mapmaker
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>> . But as Mm says, it isn't 'that simple'. The law has evolved >> to be counter-intuitive to the 'reasonable man' who often gives up and hires an expert. >> >> I wonder how that came about? (he wondered satirically). Not sure why I wrote that. It generally is that simple. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 19:40
Probate - Armel Coussine
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>> Not sure why I wrote that. It generally is that simple. 'Faced with the prospect of support from so unwelcome a quarter, he abandoned his premises and adopted an entirely different tack', or words to that effect. Heh heh... |
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New Wed 12 Jan 11 13:18
Probate - Leif
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Mapmaker said: "You should have done it yourself." It is worth employing a solicitor if there is more than one person inheriting anything of significant value, as it helps to protect you as and when the others play up. |
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New Wed 12 Jan 11 13:44
Probate - Mapmaker
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>> It is worth employing a solicitor if there is more than one person inheriting anything >> of significant value, as it helps to protect you as and when the others play >> up. Not necessarily. 1. If the executor is a beneficiary and other beneficiaries are not executors then the solicitor is answerable to the beneficiary who is executor. 2. Produce list of assets of estate and values. Beneficiaries agree values. Nothing to argue about. Beneficiaries disagree on values, items sent to public auction where they can bid for them. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 19:34
Probate - Tooslow
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Well I've done it and it was straightforward and easy. Took just a few weeks to get probate. Is it necessary? Well it seems like a good idea to stop any Tom, Dick or Harry turning up at the bank / building society / etc and saying "hand over the dosh". If they say "where is your letter of probate" game over. John |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 20:08
Probate - mikeyb
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When my mother passed away I did the whole thing myself, although her estate was quite simple - home, bit of savings, few small debts, car etc and I was the sole beneficiary. I intended to use a solicitor, but the local one was very helpful in explaining the process, and after a quick chat advised me that it was straightforward and I was more than capable of doing it myslef. The whole process was not that difficult, but as others have said - make sure you get several copies of the death cert and probate form - makes life a bit easier. Also found my bank (HSBC) very helpful - they were happy to release funds from mums estate to cover funeral costs etc in advance of the probate |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 20:23
Probate - RichardW
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It's a bit late to offer the OP advice on DIY probate, as the deed is done.... his question was more on the need for Probate. I guess it serves 2 purposes - 1 to prove that the will is genuine and the the persons with it are acting in accordance with it, and have the right to do so, and can be held to account if it is not done so. 2 to demonstate to HMRC if any inheritance tax is due - and it is paid before Probate it granted. For smaller estates, then yes it is a bit of a money spinner so far as the solicitors are concerned. 8 months is not out of the question if a 3rd party is handling it - they will have to collect all the paperwork, get valuations, fill out the paperwork, submit it, go to the interview, wait for the Probate to be granted, contact all the relevant institutions again, gather all the money, then divvy it up as per the will. Oh, and write out their bill! |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 13:16
Probate - TheManWithNoName
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>> I guess it serves 2 purposes - 1 to prove that the will is genuine >> and the the persons with it are acting in accordance with it, and have the >> right to do so, and can be held to account if it is not done >> so. 2 to demonstate to HMRC if any inheritance tax is due - and it >> is paid before Probate it granted. >> Absolutely correct. If you are a named executor, you can be personally liable if you sell property, or distribute the wealth of the estate without first allowing for a creditor or debtor to claim against the estate. Administration of Estates Act 1925 I think applies here and allows 6 months timescale. Its why you often see ads in the papers naming the deceased person and inviting anyone with a claim on the estate to come forward and claim what's rightfully theirs. Some have posted and been rather 'anti-solicitor' and whilst many people don't want to pay a solicitor to deal, at least they will know what they are doing and if they make a mistake, you can claim against them. |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 13:25
Probate - Bromptonaut
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| I'm not anti solcitor but I've had enuogh experience to lack confidence that they, or their minions, always know what they're doing. A getting action from the complaints mechanism could be pretty hard going as well. |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 20:26
Probate - Bromptonaut
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I suspect the OP refers to the timescale required to wind up the estate. Probate is only part of the process, the bit where the state intervenes to ensure the admors bona fides and to give disputing rellies the opportunity to contest the will or the actions of the adminstator. Did it a few years ago. The deceased had outlived both appointed executors so technically I was applying for Letters of Administration with will attached. I'm a bureaucrat by profession and at the time worked in a field not far removed from probate but I don't think a literate/numerate man off the street would have found it dificult. Once I'd established the extent of the estate (a few bank accounts and some thatcherite shareholdings) I toddled over to the Probate Office in Holborn and collected some forms. Returned them with the will, death certificates for the deceased executors and a fee. Got an appointment to be interviewed by court officer before whom I swore an affirmation. Was given sealed copies of the grant and was then in a postion to gather in and redistribute the assets. Ther formwork to split the shareholdings was more complicated than that for the court. My experience where lawyers are, or act for, the executor noses and grindstones need to be kept proximate otherwise this sort of work seems to move down the priority list. It's them doing the legwork of establishing the estate, attending court and then doing much more leg and formwork to keep the financial institutions happy that takes the time. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 20:28
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 23:09
Probate - Stuartli
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>>..and then doing much more leg and form work to keep the financial institutions happy that takes the time. >> I found the financial institutions very clued up - they must undertake many thousands of such requests annually - and dealings proved very straightforward. They provided both considerable assistance and simple to complete forms to ease the process. The one thing that stood out above all others, no matter who was contracted, was the genuine desire to help as much as possible at such a difficult time. One, in particular, was a financial adviser who had taken over responsibility for a life assurance plan taken out by my wife some 30 years ago or more, due to various takeovers of the original policy provider. The financial institution involved, who had issued the policy, informed me that I could carry on the plan in my name to benefit my offspring and I arranged this with an updated direct debit. However, the financial adviser contacted me shortly afterwards, detailing how much the policy would probably be worth if I maintained it, in contrast to cashing it in immediately and dividing the amount between my offspring. Without spelling it out in so many words, he intimated that the policy would be worth a minimum of £xxxx on my death no matter how many payments were made, whereas if I cashed it in the sum would be at least twice that figure. So I did that and split the sum between the offspring. Not many financial advisers would be that honest in view of what would be lost commission over future years....:-) |
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New Thu 6 Jan 11 23:50
Probate - Ted
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I did SWMBO's mum's in 2009. I didn't really think I needed to. All her funds from the previous sale of her house were invested in a 2 yr bond. We had Enduring power of attorney and I was sole signitory to the bond. I kept it running after her death as the rate was 6.5%. When the bond ended, I could have just transferred the cash to another account but they wanted probate. Easy to do, cost about £80/90. Took about 3 weeks. Probably having the probate office 2 miles away helped. Ted |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 09:23
Probate - Cliff Pope
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It's the piece of string again. Without knowing how complicated the person's affairs were it is impossible to say. My father's was so beset with complications that it has only just been settled 3 years after his death. Probate was the easy bit - the complictions came afterwards unravelling trusts, foreign-domiciled trustee, financial institutions' inconsistent requirements about verifications, nominated accounts, documents lost in the post, etc etc etc - it went on and on. By contrast when my first wife died there was no need for a will or probate at all. We had a house and accounts in joint names, and everything passed to me by survivorship without any paperwork needed. I gave the bank a copy of the death certificate, and that was that. |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 12:36
Probate - Mapmaker
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>>I found the financial institutions very clued up - they must undertake many thousands of >>such requests annually - and dealings proved very straightforward. I found them an absolute shower. Almost as though they'd never had a client die before. |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 12:37
Probate - Bromptonaut
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>> I found them an absolute shower. Almost as though they'd never had a client die >> before. That pretty much reflects my experience; probably worse now with offshoring. |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 12:51
Probate - Stuartli
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>>I found them an absolute shower. Almost as though they'd never had a client die before.>> Yet, as I stated, I found all of them to prove both sympathetic and very efficient in meeting my requirements whether contacted by phone or letter - I still, obviously, have all the paperwork involved. |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 12:49
Probate - sooty123
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| it was fairly straight fwd 2 bank accounts 1bond and a car and thats it. Although it may be the solictor she lost several documents forgot my gdads name quite a lot, and kept the documents in a box she refered to as the 'dead box' |
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New Fri 7 Jan 11 13:57
Probate - Fenlander
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Ahh then your experience has been clouded by what sounds a rubbish solicitor. We were lucky that we used one who'd been dealing with the affairs of the deceased for 20+yrs so was well trusted. I also found a solicitor very useful where the two executors were also the two beneficiaries.... a situation where an impartial 3rd party was a great help! |
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New Tue 11 Jan 11 08:00
Probate - Iffy
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Seems I may have been (indirectly) ripped off in my last dealings with probate. About two years ago I was surprised to discover a distant aunt had left me a largish amount of money. Not enough to retire on, although it would have been had I been left the lot. I'm told the last time I saw this aunt was about 45 years ago when she visited my grandmother, hence I had no input into her will arrangements. It seems she had asked 'the bank' to act as executor, and we beneficiaries found ourselves dealing with HSBC's trust department in Leeds, although aunty lived in Dorset. The estate was made up of cash and shares, a fairly typical blue-chip portfolio of banks and conglomerates. As an aside, it was at the time of the credit crunch, and I think we each 'lost' about £2K in a week when HSBC shares took a big dip - exciting times at Iffy Towers, I can tell you. Our named contact at the trust department was charming, always available, and superficially helpful. But we found she needed quite a bit of chivvying along, and the final settlement was held up by two or three small bequests of less than a £1,000 to people who could not be traced. HSBC were all for keeping this money, presumably for ever, in case the beneficiaries turned up. A legal contact of mine suggested missing beneficiary insurance, and after a bit of Googling, I found a broker who offered a suitable policy with a one-off premium of about £200. Thus each of us beneficiaries 'paid' about £30 each, but this enabled the missing beneficiary money to be added to our settlement, about an extra £250 each. The estate was thus finalised after HSBC had deducted their charge of just under £12,000. For what they did, it seemed on the high side, particularly as they did not offer the missing beneficiary insurance. They would still be holding that £3,000 today had I not effectively demanded they accept the insurance. Apart from that, the job was handled well enough and we all received an impressive looking and very detailed statement at the end of it. But I don't think HSBC did anything a competent amateur could not have done. Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 11 Jan 11 at 08:03
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New Tue 11 Jan 11 09:12
Probate - RichardW
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| It's always worth nominating a person as executor of your will rather than a solicitor or bank. Even if the executor choses not to do the work and appoint a solicotor, then at least the solicitor is working for someone who is alive and can encourage the completion of the process, rather than the solicitor working for someone who is no longer around, and can do what he likes - how many letters do you need telling you nothing has happened at £25 a time? |
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