Something I've always wondered;
During training do any candidates have to quit the course because of a fear of going into tunnels? It would make my blood run cold.
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I used to live in Bath but socialised a lot in Bristol. I drank in those days so often used to cycle through to Brizzol on the cycle path created from a combination of riverside paths and the old railway line. It involved a couple of disused railway tunnels one of which was reasonably long and unlit. Fine in daylight but after the pub, in darkness and when you had forgotten your lights it was a leap of faith.
Eventually it became clear that there was a method which involved sticking one arm out and trailing your fingertips along the tunnel wall to keep yourself facing the right way. However you did have to have a pint or two on board to convince yourself that cycling totally blind in a tunnel was a reasonable thing to do.
On one occasion I fell off and couldn't find my bike for ages. When I did eventually find it by groping around on the ground I got back on and rode back the wrong way which was a bit disappointing as I had to turn round and do it again.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Fri 24 Dec 10 at 21:30
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>>
>> Eventually it became clear that there was a method which involved sticking one arm out
>> and trailing your fingertips along the tunnel wall to keep yourself facing the right way.
>>
I'm sure I've read of steam loco drivers using much the same method to check they weren't slipping backwards in tunnels.
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>> >> and trailing your fingertips along the tunnel wall to keep yourself facing the right
>> way.
>> >>
>>
>> I'm sure I've read of steam loco drivers using much the same method to check
>> they weren't slipping backwards in tunnels.
>>
There are several tunnels out of stations where the train goes straight onto a steep gradient, the best known being Glasgow Queen Street. During steam days the smoke never cleared from the tunnel and the story goes that an A4 went into the tunnel and started slipping, the driver didn't know, because of the noise and smoke, that he was going backwards, and it rolled back into something else... An indicator was put in the tunnel to alert the driver, and many tunnels were then fitted with lights so they could tell if they were slipping backwards, Birmingham New Street's North End Stour Tunnel is an example of that.
Last edited by: hobby on Sat 25 Dec 10 at 09:45
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>> >> Eventually it became clear that there was a method which involved sticking one arm
>> out
>> >> and trailing your fingertips along the tunnel wall to keep yourself facing the right
>> way.
>> >>
>>
>> I'm sure I've read of steam loco drivers using much the same method to check
>> they weren't slipping backwards in tunnels.
>>
They'd lose the skin on their fingertips if they wern't
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Why would you quit because of that?
They fail the test on traction and route learning.
At the moment at work for the railways winter preping trains for the xmas shut down of one day!!
What a waste of time but im getting paid for a shift when doing less than half.!! lol
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Not a driver, but a guard! But I can answer your question from the drivers I deal with... None have quit the course because of fear of tunnels, but several have quit due to fear of running "line speed" in thick fog and relying totally on their route knowledge and the signals.
I've been "up front" (legally!) in thick fog and its quite an experience seeing the speedo at 125mph and not being able to see more than a few yards in front of you!!
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>> I've been "up front" (legally!) in thick fog and its quite an experience seeing the
>> speedo at 125mph and not being able to see more than a few yards in
>> front of you!!
>>
That might scare me. You know when you've seen a signal, but how do you avoid the constant worry that you haven't seen one? What happens if you miss a red one?
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Alarms go off!
You have to acknowledge signals by cancelling warnings. Fail to do so and the brakes apply.
So you cant "miss" signals
However
Cancelling warnings becomes second nature. Its all to easy to acknowledge warnings, but fail to notice they were not route clear. Hence you get the dreaded SPAD (signal passed at danger)
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Automatic train control that warns the driver then applies the brakes after passing a signal at danger (pioneered by God's Wonderful Railway IIRC) has been around for a century or more.
I don't think the idea of trailing fingertips along the wall would have worked in Combe Down tunnel on the upgrade leaving Bath Green Park on the late lamented Somerset and Dorset. They reckon the air was so bad that enginemen often lay on the cab floor with jackets over their heads.
Happy days.
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...on the late lamented Somerset and Dorset...
The so-called 'Slow and Dirty'.
I think a preservation group re-opened part of the line, don't know if they're still going.
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The current system goes further than the GWR system, though the modern version of that system is still used in some high speed lines... If you try and pass a signal at danger the current system will apply the brakes and has to be overridden if the signalman tells the driver to pass it when red (such as if the signal fails), that being done at very slow speed as the train would just be setting off.
TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) is explained by Wikki here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_Protection_%26_Warning_System
SPADs are very rare, and touching wood as i say this, tend to happen at slow speed... hence in some places such as complicated junctions they also use SPAD signals which can only display a Red aspect and also flash and sound bells... You know when you passed a red signal then!
Train Drivers' route knowledge is very intense, they have to know where they are, what the speed limits are, etc., in all weather, rain, snow or fog, and also at night as railways are not lit up like roads and the headlights, whilst bright, are not as good as car headlights! Also it takes around 12 months to pass out a Train Driver.
Remember, unlike roads, everything on a railway is set up to fail "safe", i.e. everything stops... So if a signal light fails, or it shows two aspects (ie a false aspect - like traffic lights showing green and amber at the same time), or someone nicks the cable and knocks them all out the trains stop and nothing moves until procedures are in place that they can move again in perfect safety... Something not appreciated by the average car driver who would just try and set off again asap regardless of whether they knew it was ok to do so!
Put it this way, I trust my life to my train driver every day I work, in all weathers and at all speeds... Thats more than I'd risk doing with most car drivers!! ;-)
Last edited by: hobby on Sat 25 Dec 10 at 15:25
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One thing hobby forgot to add; a driver can only take a train out on a route once he's "signed for it" that is to say he has been trained and passed out to drive on there.
This is something which the general public aren't always aware of, and is often the reason why trains get cancelled due to "staff shortages", even though there are apparently spare train crew walking around; you can't just send any driver out on any route willy-nilly.
In steam days, an experienced driver could tell where he was on a route by the noises made by passing over and under bridges; this was in the days before trains had electric front lights. I've been on a steam engine footplate several times in dense fog at night, on a preserved railway. It's an unnerving experience for the uninitiated.
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Thanks, HM! The same applies to Guards as well, we have to "sign off" the route as well... If anything goes wrong and the driver is incapacitated its us that does the emergency protection so you need to know where you are. At my depot it takes 6 months to sign off all our routes! Another thing is that drivers and guards have to learn the "Rules" and pass an exam before being able to work a train, in addition we have to retake that exam every two years until we retire... Mine's due next year (oh, joy!!)...
Re the "feel" of the train, its still done that way... especially for us guards, often the only way you can tell where you are is by the way the train behaves when going over points, etc., especially at night... Some of us are better than others at it! I suppose having an interest in railways has made me more sensitive to these things than others...
Last edited by: hobby on Sat 25 Dec 10 at 17:53
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If you like tunnels, try that canal tunnel, I can't remember where, where it dips in the middle because of subsidence.
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@ hobby; some years ago when I worked for a recruitment agency, my boss had the bright idea of setting up a division to deal with temporary railway staff; this was in Derby so obviously there were quite a few around.
Soon changed his mind when I presented him with the "long list of misery" that he wuold have to keep checked and up to date! :-)
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Yes I agree... I did do the Managers job for a few years and one reason I quit was the amount of paper chasing we did... Its a nightmare... Though, like airlines, railways have a safety record roads can only dream of...
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Any Train Drivers Here? - Runfer D'Hills
