Non-motoring > Employment/Redundancy issues Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Stuu Replies: 25
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:23 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
My brother has lost his job. He was a hospital porter for 31 years. This is all fine, but as my dad and I were discussing all this with him, some things started to alarm us a little.

Firstly, he says he was made redundant, thats what he was told, but he was told it was due to gross misconduct due to his high level of absence. His absence is due to a long term illness which he gets treatment for, but can be very bad at times.
He was told the final straw was he didnt attend a meeting about his attendance even though they arranged the meeting at exactly the same time as they knew he was due to be undergoing treatment with his specialist. He was told in bold terms that he was let go because of his illness. That seemed a but odd as his illness is in no way anything new.

The second thing which alarmed us was that he was told he was getting this redundancy money. Well, having gone through it with him, it seems this redundancy money is infact his pension pot of the last 31 years, but they have told him that this is his redundancy package.

He seems extremely confused about what he has been told but unfortunatly, he is quite naive and believed what was told to him. UNITE who he has been a member of all his working life, washed their hands of him and declared they werent interested ( no suprises there ).
So, we are looking at it all wondering if he has been sold down the river and somewhat taken advantage of? It has something of an iffy feel about it.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:28 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Zero
Does he have anything in writing, before, at or after the event?

Any warning letters?
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:31 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - R.P.
Stu,

I'll send you an e-mail about this.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:33 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
Not sure, he doesnt really understand these things. We have told him to get off to the CAB asap as a starting point. My dad had a hard time getting to the bottom of any of it himself such is my brothers understanding of things.

I was suprised at the way he can come out of the process completely in the dark about the true nature of whats happened. he would in all honesty be an easy target as he is totally clueless.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:37 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - R.P.
....especially from the public sector...
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:38 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Iffy
...UNITE who he has been a member of all his working life, washed their hands of him and declared they werent interested ( no suprises there )...

Stu,

I'm surprised the union has done this and I'm surprised you're not surprised.

More than 30 years' membership should count for something.

It may be the guy has been justifiably dismissed, but surely the union should at least check that is so?

I'd be inclined to contact UNITE again and invite them to represent their member as they should be doing.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:41 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Zero
I was in unite for a while.

I am not surprised, they are USELESS when it comes to the basic requirement of representing their members. Far more interested in internal and external politics.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:44 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Iffy
...Far more interested in internal and external politics...

Now why does that not surprise me?

Typical public sector, concentrate on anything rather than doing the job.

Anyway, back to employment redundancy issues, of which I know very little.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:47 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - bathtub tom
Totally agree Zero.

They totally stitched up lower paid employees at a place I worked. It's alleged that at a meeting with management the phrase 'if they're paid that little, they'll be too stupid to realise what they're losing' was used. Not in the minutes of course!
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:45 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
Its hard to explain, but he would be a very easy guy to bully or dismiss because he wont argue and its painfully shy.
He has now left the job, so Im not sure if he is still a UNITE member anymore, we havent gone into the small detail yet with him.

Im suprised that they cite illness as a reason tbh because I know someone who has similar amounts of time off from their public sector job due to illness and her employer bends over backwards to accomadate her genuine problems. She hinted that they could try and sack her but she knows employment law inside out... whereas my brother wouldnt have a clue whats right or wrong, its the only job he has ever had.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:43 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - John H
>> He seems extremely confused about what he has been told but unfortunatly, he is quite
>> naive and believed what was told to him. UNITE who he has been a member
>> of all his working life, washed their hands of him and declared they werent interested
>>

It seems you are getting a jumbled up story and neither you nor your brother really know the full facts.

Get in touch with Pugugly and find a way to establish the facts before slagging off the public sector, the NHS, and UNITE - all of which may turn out to be justified after the facts have been established.
Last edited by: John H on Fri 10 Dec 10 at 20:44
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:46 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - R.P.
As I said I have e-mailed you !
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:49 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - bathtub tom
If you can get the facts and present them to an industrial tribunal, I think you'll find them very helpful.

As it seems like he's at the end of his working life, it shouldn't affect future employment.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:53 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Zero
Isn't there a small window within which to claim unfair dismissal? Not sure how long it is but I would get wheels moving quickly if there is.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:47 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
Its the fact that my brother doesnt know the full facts which worries me.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:56 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - John H
>> Im suprised that they cite illness as a reason

>> Its the fact that my brother doesnt know the full facts which worries me.
>>

until then it sounds like a cock and bull story to me.
Last edited by: John H on Fri 10 Dec 10 at 20:57
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:48 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Tooslow
Stu, regardless of what I may think of the need to save money and the public sector, on an individual level I am very sorry to hear this. There are some nasty tricks available to employers, private & public, especially when it sounds like your brother is "easy meat". Good luck to him, he's lucky to have a brother willing to help him.
John
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:58 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
My dad is on the case for him. Thanks PU, info received.

Its family isnt it, what can you but help in any way you can. Ive only met him 5 times in my entire life but still.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 20:59 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - rtj70
I am sure PU can offer some good advice/guidance. Dismissal for misconduct is not redundancy as you know - it's dismissal and there is no redundancy payment.

I know of someone who got close to getting in a similar situation who worked for the public sector. All of the sick leave triggered it. You need to find all the facts but it could be there is nothing that can be done unfortunately.

First of all you need all the facts. Best of luck.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 21:02 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - R.P.
Make sure someone goes with him given what you've said. You might be able to get a handle on the other issue.
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 Fri 10 Dec 10 21:09 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
Yes indeedy. I dont dispute that he has been let go really, he is becoming increasingly ill ( he has a blood disorder ), so no doubt deadweight in employment terms, Im just very concerned that it doesnt seem to have been explained to him so he understands, which then leads on to what else may or may not have happened in the correct way.
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 Sat 11 Dec 10 10:36 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - hobby
From my days as a Union rep (not Unite) the OP doesn't make sense... They can't dismiss you for gross misconduct if it was due to illness, that would be "ill health" retirement or dismissed under the "sickness" procedures... long term sick is not normally done under sickness procedures, though.

I know you are speaking to PU, but I would get your brother to give written permission for you or PU to speak to Unite, as I don't think you are getting to full story... They will not just "wipe their hands" of something, if they decided there is nothing more that they can do they will have explained why... That is what you need to know.

As for using the "pension pot" for the redundancy money, they are two separate things, the only way the pension monies could have been used is if he was old enough to take a pension, in which case he should have a pension and lump sum... or if they have given him "ill health" retirement like my wife has, which will have allowed them to pay him his pension based on his service so far... sometimes they will top that up, but not always, its their discretion...

So far what you've told us sounds a bit of a jumble of facts, which could be read several ways... The first thing you need to do is find out exactly what went on... shame he didn't speak to you and your Dad earlier, it must have been going on for a fair while...

Good luck, m8!
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 Sat 11 Dec 10 11:23 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Zero
It sounds like he has been given early retirement due to ill health. The money sounds like 25% of his pension taken in cash.
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 Sat 11 Dec 10 11:28 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - hobby
I must admit that was my thoughts as well... Though it need clarification...
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 Sat 11 Dec 10 12:52 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - Stuu
It is a bit of a jumble and his understanding of it all is obviously limited. Hes not stupid, but he isnt very clued up about anything either, its like trying to explain the internet to your granny who thinks typewriters are sophisticated.
My dad had great trouble trying to split his pension from redundancy issues. He is 50 so nowhere near retirement age although is employment prospects are about zero by al accounts.

I think the most likely scenario is the ill health retirement one, but there has been a failure to make sure he understands what has actually happened.
He said of his union that he had contacted them and they simply said they cannot help, but again, the details are hard to come by because he doesnt know whats relevant.
The impression I got from him is that he felt his illness was used against him to force early retirement. Im not sure he is unhappy about retiring anyway as he seems happy with the money side of things, but he does seem to feel like some underhanded things were done which lead to it.

My dad is plugging away at it to try and get to the bottom of it all, but then it must be a bit arkward at 50 years old having your dad quizzing you about these things like your a 5 year old ( my dad has a certain way of saying things that grates on people ).

Thanks for all the advice, its been useful for my dad and I to have a clearer understanding of what could have happend as we can then relate that to what my brother says and match it up!
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 Sat 11 Dec 10 21:51 
 Employment/Redundancy issues - hobby
If it is Ill Health Retirement both the HR and the Union will have explained it to him...and he might well have said he understands (just to get away?), hence the situation he is in...

Get him to give written permission for you and your Dad to speak to both the Union and the HR Dept... with your combined knowledge you can sort out whats happened!
Last edited by: hobby on Sat 11 Dec 10 at 21:54
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