***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 2 *****
Evening all,
I'm not too sure of this has been done yet, and a cursory forum search hasn't brought anything up.
Soooooo, I thought it might be nice to recommend books that our forum friends might like to try.
I'll start with two - "Perverting The Course of Justice" by 'Inspector Gadget' and "The Summons" by John Grisham.
The first one is written by a real-life police Inspector and is a 'warts-and-all' account of real policing, not the spin and falsehoods that the media would have us believe. Very well written and often highly amusing.
The second is just a fabulous book - a legal thriller and one that I find very hard to put down.
Oh, and Tom Baker's autobiography is well worth a read too. As one would expect, very funny and rather random. My favourite line from it has to be: "I'll never forget the look on my father's face as, with scalded balls, he tried to find the budgie in the coal scuttle."
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 2 Jul 11 at 20:48
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A friend has just lent me Vol 1 of the trilogy which includes The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by Steig Larsson (spelling?) At one time all 3 were in the top 10 fiction bestseller list. I am about 50 pages in and finding it gripping and readable
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>> A friend has just lent me Vol 1 of the trilogy which includes The Girl
>> with the Dragon Tattoo by Steig Larsson (spelling?)
Book 1 is good, book 2 is half as good and book 3 is a doorstop
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I agree with Zero on this having read all three this year. Do read the first one but I'd not recommend the other two. I've read a few Jo Nesbo titles recently too.
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Diary of a Hangman, John Ellis. Only a small book, but facinating reading.
I rather enjoyed the book Richar Hammond did about his recovery from the accident, it gave a brilliant insight into brain injuries and its written in a way that makes it easy to imagine him narrating.
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I read lots of books and i'm a Dean Koontz fan.
My favourite book was 'From The Corner Of His Eye', it's quite an epic and there's a roller coaster of emotions with Koontz' dark humour and sentiment woven throug the story.
Beware if you are not already a Koontz fan it might be the start of something.
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Good idea BW though I have always found that there are reviewers whose tastes co-incide with my own and those who don't. With the former you just buy what they recommend. It can be expensive finding them! Still, that's what libraries are for I suppose.
I recommend Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. You don't have to know the first thing about science to read it, it is hugely entertaining and you will be better protected against scams and hype after you have read it.
The Suspicions of Mr. Whicher: or the Murder at Road Hill House by Kate Summerscale is gripping. An account of an actual murder in the 19th century. It is fascinating to discover just how much we know of people from so long ago and also reads as a first class whodunnit. Except this time they really did.
Stone's Fall by Iain Pears is very entertaining and weaves seemingly disparate strands together into a single story. See if you can guess the end. Not a whodunnit, a whydunnit.
John
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I've just finished "Burning Rubber", by Charles Jennings. It is the story of Formula 1 from start to present day and gives some highly amusing profiles of the drivers and team owners. To give but one instance, Jim Clark was apparently so indecisive away form the track that he regularly used to plough across the grass middle of a fork in the road where you could pass either side because he froze as he approached it.
It is also a grim reminder of the terrible death toll in the sport up until the safety improvements of the eighties.
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Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes. If you ever read one book about the war in Vietnam - not necessarily part of our history, but nonetheless - read it before they make a film of it.
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The "Kydd" series by Julian Stockwin.
The "Reacher" series by Lee Child.
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Inside the Third Reich written by Albert Speer, a little heavy in the first part but nonetheless worth it. Anyone interrested in WW2 should read this tells quite a lot not well none and a real insight of a man at the centre of a important part of history. The first bit is a little heavy on architecture, but the rest of the book is very interesting.
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Re reading The Life of Pi by Yann Martel. If you've ever wondered what it would be like to be adrift in a small boat in the Ocean with an Orangutang, a hyena and a Bengal Tiger called Richard Parker you need to read this book.
Truly magical
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I have Speer's book I bought it in one of those temporary shops on a High Street - frustratingly it has some pages missing and I can't bring myself to read it.
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>> I have Speer's book I bought it in one of those temporary shops on a
>> High Street - frustratingly it has some pages missing and I can't bring myself to
>> read it.
>>
Buy a full copy from ebay, it is one of the most interesting books I've read, why can you not bring yourself to read it?
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I wouldn't dream of recommending reading material to anyone here. I'd think our tastes are as disparate as our choice of cars.
I've got a KIA Pride, if I haven't mentioned it before. ;>)
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Missing pages that I only cottoned on to when I got home - a metaphor for my life :-(
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>> The Suspicions of Mr. Whicher: or the Murder at Road Hill House by Kate Summerscale is gripping. An account of
>> an actual murder in the 19th century. It is fascinating to discover just how much we know of people from so long
>> ago and also reads as a first class whodunnit. Except this time they really did.
The film of this is showing on ITV1 at 9.00pm tonight.
Based on the recommendations in this thread, I've been getting a few more books out of the library (including this one), so I shall be watching tonight's film with interest.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Mon 25 Apr 11 at 14:27
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I am engrossed at the moment in "Winston Churchill's Toyshop" by Stuart Macrae.
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/184868794X
As with Bletchley Park, there was no official history of MD1 (Ministry of Defence Department 1) until somebody wrote a book about it 20 odd years later. Macrae and a Captain Clarke designed and prototyped the Limpet mine in 3 weeks using some magnets from a hardware shop and an enamel bowl from Woolworths in Bedford,having tested it in Bedford Baths - just one of the often amusing stories of the development of an array of secret weapons that were developed and produced in large numbers.
Highly recommended for anybody who's interested in this sort of thing.
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Looks good - see we're stuffed as a nation now. No hardware shops and no Woolies .. :-(
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Tom Holland - Rubicon. Extremely well written history of Rome.
And there HAS to be someone on here who has read the Adam Hall Quiller books? Fiction, secret agent, lots and lots of fast cars (he has a Jensen Interceptor as his daily driver), technical detail about planes, guns, karate and other boys stuff, imaginative stories... I shouldn't say this but he reminds me of Zero's persona. Blunt, to the point, says it like it is.
And of course, the Story of Superglue. I couldn't put it down.
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Leon Uris has written many good books.
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Thanks Manatee for the "Winston Churchill's Toyshop" recommendation. Another book that might appeal is "Not Much of an Engineer" by Sir Stanley Hooker. This was one of those books that I struggled to put down.
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>> I am engrossed at the moment in "Winston Churchill's Toyshop" by Stuart Macrae.
>>
>> www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/184868794X
>>
The best, and first book of this type was "Most Secret War" written by Reginald Victor Jones, CH CB CBE FRS, (29 September 1911–17 December 1997)
RV Jones was the assistant director (science) of the Air Ministry during the war, and is recognised as the founder of modern military Scientific and Technical Intelligence.
Published in 1978, it was the first inkling (after the 30 year rule) of what the Allies really got up to behind the scenes, and was one of the first break open the (till then) sealed world of Bletchley Park, and all that it achieved.
www.amazon.co.uk/Most-Secret-Penguin-World-Collection/dp/0141042826/ref=tmm_pap_title_0
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>> Oh, and Tom Baker's autobiography is well worth a read too. As one would expect,
>> very funny and rather random. My favourite line from it has to be: "I'll never
>> forget the look on my father's face as, with scalded balls, he tried to find
>> the budgie in the coal scuttle."
Agreed, excellent book. Like the story at the end about the man he describes as 'Mahogony' (colour of his coat), who said to him in the graveyard,
'You've got a lovely Honda'.
'No, I've got a Peugeot, a French job, an estate. I like it'.
'I mean your mower. I'm sorry to hear about Mr Pertwee'.
The whole thing is eccentric and brilliantly funny.
I was eyeing up Keith Richards new book in the newsagents. Quite amusing to see Nigella Lawson next to this drug addled picture of Keith with a skull ring enclosed finger and a fag amongst all the other bright celebrity faces.
Last edited by: corax on Sat 4 Dec 10 at 11:01
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BTW There's only one Good Book - plenty of good books though :-)
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all the other bright celebrity faces
Not least Blair's face grinning at me like a demented ninny in Tesco's the other day - at least it's heavily discounted now.
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>> Not least Blair's face grinning at me like a demented ninny in Tesco's the other
>> day - at least it's heavily discounted now.
You'll be buying it then?
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That damned bliar book was right at the entrance to WHS's book section, couldn't go in.
His oratory output made my want to vomit and every channel and program seemed enthralled by his every word, the thought of people spending their hard earned to read anything he might have composed and from which he'd benefit makes me feel quite nauseous.
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"Oh, and Tom Baker's autobiography is well worth a read too."
I designed the original hardback cover for that book back in 1997, took me ages to draw up the type in the style of the show. I had a couple of arguments with him, he wasn't happy with my choice of pic and wanted to use his own which were poor snapshots and totally unsuitable. He loved it in the end though. He signed a book for my mother that said "I hope you're as proud of Dave as we are of this cover"
He's just as mental when you're sitting in a room with him as he is on screen.
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Wow! Hidden talents, BBD. I do like the cover of that book - the picture you chose sums Tom up perfectly. I'd love to have a pint with him and hear his stories straight from the horse's mouth.
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I think I used a colour studio shot then changed it all to greyscale except for his eyes and his scarf where I boosted the colours. I still think it's a nice cover.
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Reading some half-decent American stuiff from Stephen Hunter and WEB Griffin at present.
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If any of you are going to Florida take this book -Peter Matthiessen's "Killing Mr Watson". Recommended by AC - a really atmospheric read about the State...really good.
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This was lingering on my book shelf for a couple of years, read it in Greece on holiday - perfect read - Long Walk - Sławomir Rawicz. They're releasing a film soon which usually ruins a book. Talking of which he perfect example of that is Captain Corelli's Mandolin - Louis de Bernières - s classic totally ruined by Hollywood.
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The Car Masutra, by Mary Bird.
And no - its not what you think it is!
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Not quite sure how a film ruins a book. Captain Corelli's Mandolin is still a great book even if the film was not that good. I guess the book is actually near to being unfilmable. Louis de Bernieres' South America trilogy was very good too, although very different. You have to like magical realism.
Birds without Wings set in Turkey during the first world war is to mind his best book. I read it on holiday in Turkey last year close to where it is set, As with "Captain Corelli' it provides an insight into events in history that very few people in this country know much about. Very atmospheric and absorbing read..
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CCM was such a monumentally poor rendition of the book that it defies belief that the filmakers got away with it, I read the book first and expected great things....
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I agree it wasn't great. Not as bad as what Hollywood did to Joseph Heller's "Catch 22" though. Again I guess they should not have tried. The book was unfilmable,
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You're right there - I've always felt quite strongly about the transition from book to screen. A good example where this really worked was The Road which worked so very well in both media. I am a one that sees for instance Disney as having plundered the imagination of kids for generations....
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Books to film rarely do the original work justice, 2 hours isn't enough.
Tom Sharpe's black comedies made good transitions but these were in the order of 12 or more hours screenplay, serialised at a time when we still made quality programs.
Thinking mainly of the marvellous 'Blott On The Landscape' which really rubber stamped the blossoming careers of David Suchet and Geraldine James, 'Porterhouse Blue' was quality too, but the Wilt film was a terrible ordeal thankfully as short in time as it is in humour.
By the way the Wilt trilogy is worth reading, especially the second book The Wilt Alternative which had me in stitches for hours at a time, our anti hero's verbal and mental battle's and the absurdity of his normal life make for the most enjoyable riotous read.
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Good books - remember the refreshing humour !
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Last Light, by Alex Scarrow. A thoroughly enjoyable book about the oil suppy drying up, fiction, but scarily real. Would recommend to anyone. October Skies & A Thousand Suns by same author also a great read. Have just ordered another couple of books by him.
Another shout for the 'Reacher' sereies by Lee Child as mentiond further up.
Plague Year, by Jeff Carlson
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>> Last Light, by Alex Scarrow. A thoroughly enjoyable book about the oil suppy drying up,
>> fiction, but scarily real. Would recommend to anyone.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'm halfway through it and it's an excellent read.
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Alone in Berlin - Hans Fallada - a 1947 German Language book originally, recently translated into English - an absolutely scintillating read - superb characterizations written as a book and not as a wanabee screenplay. Apparently written by the author in 24 days just before he died - if you want to know what a true Police State is like - read this.
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Bedside reading just now is 'Traffic' by Tom Vanderbilt, a book about driving psychology based on scientific studies all over the world. I mention it because of its intrinsic interest to users of this site, not for its literary quality. It isn't badly written but it is a bulging American academic portmanteau of a book, covering every aspect of driving in exhaustive detail, and something like 150,000 words long. The perspective on driving is also very strongly transatlantic, with speeding treated as a sort of cardinal sin like drunken driving.
I don't mean to make it sound dry though. Lots of interesting nuggets on most pages. It hasn't transformed my driving yet, but it does help to feed the semi-conscious inner monologue (only occasionally breaking out into Tourettes-like explosions of externalisation) that goes on all the time when you are driving (or when I am anyway). Not junk food either but a readable attempt at serious coverage of something important. 7 out of 10.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 29 Jan 11 at 17:24
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Glad to see the thread resurrected! I've just finished two very enjoyable books. One was 'My Life In Comedy' by Nicholas Parsons. Very funny and Mr P comes across as a thoroughly charming chap. The other was 'Anfield Of Dreams', a very personal account of the trials and tribulations of following Liverpool FC since the '50s.
Both books are very very well written and come highly recommended.
I've just started 'Lost In Music' by Giles Smith, a memoir about the music the author grew up with. So far, another interesting read.
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>> >> 'My Life In Comedy' by Nicholas Parsons.
>>
Old Two Ronnies joke:
Tonight we meet a lady who likes Nicholas Parsons... and a parson who likes knickerless ladies.
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Just a Minute has gone off my playlist after being there for 30 years. Why ? Because Wogan is going on it.
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>> Just a Minute has gone off my playlist after being there for 30 years. Why
>> ? Because Wogan is going on it.
>>
In the 'old' days, SABC used to have Just a minute, My Music and My Word on.
As the shows are now deemed to be 'Imperialist/Colonialist', we no longer get them.
Sad, really. And SABC degenerates into mindless phone-in-on-today's-topic radio.
Oh, I did enjoy Freud's droll tones...
Last edited by: Ian (Cape Town) on Sat 29 Jan 11 at 19:29
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"Just a Minute has gone off my playlist after being there for 30 years. Why ? Because Wogan is going on it."
And I started listening to R2 again once that tedious, drivelling, boring, unfunny, rambling, grating old blimp retired.
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And I thought that I was a voice in the wilderness on this.
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I think R2 have screwed up with Vanessa Feltz too, while I'd quite like to wake up next to her in the flesh, I think her show is just treacle.
"And now my favourite part of the show when I get to speak to you, the listener."
Uuuuurgh.
They should have tempted Lynn Parsons into that slot permanently, she was always good covering for Sarah Kennedy. Or Aled Jones, he's a nice guy.
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Yeah, we had the discussion on the Jones lad here the other night (Escape to the Country) he comes across as Mr Middle of The Road - totally inoffensive.
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...Yeah, we had the discussion on the Jones lad here the other night...
Much better since his voice broke.
And no, I'm not going to that dodgy club.
Send BBD, it's his manor and he's made for the role of the oldest swinger in town.
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He didn't sing on The Snowman apparently. He did the record but not the animation.
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He makes me laugh, Aled Jones, dunno why, I just enjoy his banter.
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I know his mother as it happens...
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We thought there was a resemblance...
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Not in the Biblical sense.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sat 29 Jan 11 at 20:42
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Sorry - simple misunderstanding ;-)
On topic, I am reading "Lady Sings the Blues", the autobiography of Billie Holiday - a re-issue of a 50 year old book. Fascinating.
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Thanks for the tip, PU. My father was PoW near Berlin (Potsdam) and we lived there for a year in 1959. I offer in return, The Reader, Bernhard Schlink. Wince-making ending.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Sat 29 Jan 11 at 20:55
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Thanks - there has been a film version of that recently ? Wartime Berlin is very interesting to me.
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Me also. Was there for a short return trip last May. Father gave some help to Cornelius Ryan re The Last Battle. Have a transcript from Ohio Uni (where the records of Ryans research are stored) of their discussions. Most was discarded (info re swapping cigarettes for cyanide pills the woman Red Cross workers (and others) were issued with in the event the Russians took them) and much else, including unsuccessful Nazi attempts to subvert the Irish contingent in Luckenwalde (Republic of!) into joining them. There were some compensations at the end of the effective German fighting. Apparently a liqueur known as Danziger Goldwasser was plentiful. However, the only part Ryan recorded in his book was the Ruskis machine-gunning of Red Cross supplies!
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Sat 29 Jan 11 at 21:24
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"Wartime Berlin is very interesting to me"
You won't have missed Anthony Beevor on the subject then PU? (Berlin - The Downfall)
Any of his books are brilliant - Stalingrad (the first book of his I read) and "Paris - after the Libration" are particularly outstanding. I rarely buy books in hardback because they are so expensive but after reading Stalingrad I had to buy his others in hardback before they came out in paperback.
The other writer I really have enjoyed is Robert Harris - Fatherland, Archangel, The Ghost etc.
Sorry if these have been mentioned already - not had ttime to read whole thread.
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PS Agree about Vanessa Feltz - have to turn R2 off at 5am now after Alex Lester who I enjoy. Aled is v good when he sits in on the early shift at 5 am.
Yes I do set off for work early!
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Read both - cracking and detailed reads both - It must have been a scary place. I remember a phrase from Alone in Berlin - "Bombs fall on good Germans and bad Germans..." it must have been a lonely place for anyone other than a Nazi..
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Strewth, don't you lot ever stop talking about the blinkin' war?
I was hoping we had left the topic behind when that bore's head oilrag left.
No wonder the Germans think we are obsessed. :)
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>> I was hoping we had left the topic behind when that bore's head oilrag left.
>>
>> No wonder the Germans think we are obsessed. :)
what ever happened to Herr Eberkopf Öllappen? Is he still posting on Johann Ehrlicher?
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I see the smiley iffy - maybe you are right.
However, some of us feel a lot closer to "The War" than the younger generation. My parents were married in Hamburg when serving in forces at end of WW2. Mother was based in Berlin (incidentally, she was one of the "ciphers girls" who decoded and sent message round to allied forces from Eisenhower that Germany had surrendered - I have a copy signed by all those on duty).
But, main point is thet Stalingrad, Berlin and Paris books are stories of human survival under dreadful conditions that we (younger and luckier) find hard to imagine.
In "Stalingrad", one ends up feeling sorry for the Germans under von Paulus, stranded so far from home, in a Russian winter (or two) no hope of relief, abandoned by Hitler and Goering (too far for his airforce to take supplies) and surrounded, eventually, by overwhelming Russian forces. At the same time there are the remnants of the Stalingrad population still living there and facing a desperate struggle for survival.
In "Berlin" the theme is somewhat similar in that it deals with a city, Berlin obviously, gradually overwhelmed by Rusian forces. The travails of the Berliners are all too graphically detailed - no food, no fuel, no water, constant shelling and air raids; I seem to remember that something like 80% of Berlin women were raped by the Russians and young boys were dragooned into futilely defending the city - it's all very moving.
In "Paris" we have the story of a city which had been occupied by the Germans for about 5 years suddenly being liberated by the Allies. Now, here's a difficult decision. Would you, for the sake of your family's survival, have collaborated with the Germans (who, of course, could have the victors and therefore your rulers for the rest of your life) or would you have fought against them? and given your choice, what would you expect your treatment to be on "liberation". Terrible dilemma which few of us have faced.
I am, I confess, also somewhat obsessed by WW 1. Mainly because my grandfather, an ordinary farm boy, survived all 4 years of it. on reading his diary, one realises that he was not "ordinary" at all.
www.soar100.freeserve.co.uk/
These books/diaries all make me examine my own qualities - could I have survived? Don't think I could.
Of another age is one of the best books I have ever read
Agincourt: The King, the Campaign, the Battle
Juliet Barker (Author)
The story of Henry V's invasion of Normandy and Northern France. But, it's not just about the military side, it's the story of ordinary Englishmen surviving and emerging victorious despite overwhelming odds. It's brilliantly written.
Sorry for long post - guess I am obsessed by something! I'll leave you to analyse it!
Off to read a book about the dark ages - wonder if some valiant human beings will survive against all odds!!!
Enjoy your reading - one of the great pleasures of life.
Phil
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Try Fatal Avenue - Richard Holmes Phil - covers every conflict in Northen France since Agincourt....
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Thanks PU, will order from Amazon tomorrow!
Phil
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Phil,
Good stuff, thanks for taking the post in the spirit it was intended.
One of the strengths of our little online community is, of course, that you can talk about the war if you want to.
My mother was brought up in South Devon, near to where the Americans gathered for D-Day.
She tells some good tales of almost living under American occupation, going through Yank checkpoints on the way to school, and I get the impression some of the older girls were badly used.
It was certainly the first time my mother ever saw a black man.
While our debt to the American military cannot be doubted, people from that part of South Hams have very mixed feelings about their time there.
You've got me doing it now - talking about the war.
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"our debt to the American military cannot be doubted, people from that part of South Hams have very mixed feelings about their time there."
And several hundred Americans died while "rehearsing" for D-Day at Slapton Sands didn't they? Hence the memorial?
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...And several hundred Americans died while "rehearsing" for D-Day at Slapton Sands didn't they? Hence the memorial?...
Yes, that's so.
What is less widely known is the memorial was vandalised several times, which was a reflection of the anti-American sentiment among some of the locals, plenty of whom didn't want it put there.
My grandmother told a story of being woken in the early hours by the Americans.
She lived in a farmhouse and came downstairs to find a group of soldiers, who had presumably been on a night time exercise, in the kitchen helping themselves to an early breakfast.
Food was short, even on a farm, but what the Americans wanted, they took.
www.swcp.org.uk/tour/html/SlaptonMemorial.html
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One of the strengths of our little online community is, of course, that you can talk about the war if you want to.
Thank you iffy - you're so kind. :-)
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 30 Jan 11 at 09:07
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...Thank you iffy - you're so kind. :-)...
No problem, just reinforcing the point I have no desire to exercise any editorial control around here.
Which is just as well, because I don't have any.
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I'm currently enjoying the 1996 English edition of "The Automotive Chassis: Engineering Principles", by Reimpell & Stoll. It's a very thorough book, with surprisingly few equations. It also includes a really good explanantion of the effect of the compliance of the rubber bushes on suspension geometry - elastokinematics.
Last edited by: Number_Cruncher on Sat 29 Jan 11 at 23:31
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>> I'm currently enjoying the 1996 English edition of "The Automotive Chassis: Engineering Principles", by Reimpell
When can we expect to see the film? Wonder who they will get to play the lead role.
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>> When can we expect to see the film?
He he. It could have been worse! Although it's not trivial fluff, Reimpell & Stoll is actually quite accessible. I think it's a worthwhile step beyond the Haynes manual level without the false black magic and voodoo that you find in coffee table books and books aimed at the motorsports community.
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Just "Kindled" Alan Sugar's autobiography "What You See Is What You Get"
www.amazon.co.uk/What-You-See-Get-Autobiography/dp/023074933X/ref=pd_cp_b_0
Initial interest was the '80s and the development of Amstrad's various computers. Being abroad, missed the SkyTV era and White Hart Lane is the wrong side of town, but found this equally fascinating, as well as his early days with audio. A good read
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P.S. Just started the last instalment of the Ian Rankin DI Rebus series "Exit Music". As good as ever - will be missed
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I'm reading AC/DC Maximum Rock & Roll at the moment.
That should put a stop to all this talk of the war:)
Pat
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...AC/DC Maximum Rock & Roll...that should put a stop to all this talk of the war:)...
Certainly should - no one will be able to hear themselves speak.
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Glad to say I saw AC/DC live (the first time around)
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Assembling my holiday reads....bearing in mind we're flying with Ryanair - most will be in the form of kindle downloads !
1. Mentioned before on here, Three Corvettes (paperback).
2. Empire of the Clouds, James Hamilton Paterson. A narrative on the aviation industry in the UK in the immediate post war period.....including lovely, lovely V Bombers....paperback
3. The Fort - Bernard Cornwell - Kindle will be taking this as it's actually cheaper than the paperback version.
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Nice story I am reading is New York by Edward Rutherford.
Good historic background about different families and how New York became what it is today.
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Patrick Leigh Fermor, 'A time of gifts'. He died recently; one of the great travel writers.
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"3. The Fort - Bernard Cornwell - "
Don't know that one but have read quite a few of Cornwell's books - Last Kingdom, Pale Horseman, Lords of the North etc. All about "dark ages" which I know little about. What I like is the way that he writes fiction but with a well researched historical and geographical background so that it's not just a novel but is also a good reflection of how life was lived and battles fought in the Saxon/Danish era (very roughly 700 AD to 1000 AD)
In a similar vein, but different area and time is "The conqueror" series by Conn Iggulden - all about the rise, life and fall of Genghis Khan - really interesting and exciting.
And another! The English Civil War at First Hand by Tristram Hunt. Never heard mention of Civil War apart from Roundheads v Cavaliers when I was at school, but what an education to find how complex and tragic it was in causes, actuality and effects.
In my old age I seem to be obsessed by historical stuff - usually stuff that we didn't "do" at school and far more interesting than "Tudors and Stuarts" (though Civil War and Charles I and II were Stuarts of course)
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Well I can commend The Fort as a ripping holiday read - my Kindle was unputdownable...! Based on true events involving the father of the Light Division Sir John Moore - a cracking read.
Empire of the Clouds will appeal to BigT and Zero as well - another unputdownable read about the crash and burn of Postwar British aviation, including some very descriptive stuff about the Vulcan and how this incredible aircraft managed to stealth its way onto the American mainland in war-games effectively nuking Washington and New York, how it could still outturn an F15 and how one of its wing tips ploughed a furrow on American soil in the legendary Red Flag exercises... I took Three Corvettes with me as well and re-read that. For the journey home I read (and still am) Max Hastings' excellent account of Winston's war - The Finest Years. - The Kindle was a good holiday friend, its web access facility providing easy and free mobile access, so much better than my little iPod (phone left at home) which struggles with its tiny screen and flakey hotel WiFi..
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I am halfway into Winstons War, for 90 pence courtesy of the sunday times voucher.
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I've never looked at this thread before because I thought it was about the Bible.
I'm jumping between Alan Clark, the Biography (Ion Trewin) and Seeing Things, the autobiography of Oliver (Bagpuss) Postgate. What a lovely man he was. AC was interesting...
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I've never looked at this thread before because I thought it was about the Bible.
I was tempted to de-capitalize it when it was posted originally.
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Anyone who wants to be put off the Bible only has to look at the internet commentary on the Hopi sage's nice, sensible, reasonable, but hardly original or informative, sermon posted by Dutchie elsewhere. The mentality of some US bible-bashers makes your blood run cold, or it does mine anyway.
Fortunately I was raised, sort of, as a Catholic and Catholics don't have this huge investment in the 'Literal and Unchanging Word of God on Sin and Salvation for the Righteous wrote down like it Says Right Here in Deuteronomy IV, 37-86, just looky here Billy Joe...'
So I was able to sample it, when young and subsequently, like someone at a buffet, just like an Anglican. And of course an unbowdlerized, unmodernized King James Bible is the only one worth a second glance.
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"Catholics don't have this huge investment in the 'Literal and Unchanging Word of God on Sin and Salvation for the Righteous wrote down like it Says Right Here in Deuteronomy IV, 37-86,"
Well, there's a good few Catholics in my family and I reckon they might disagree. I think the Pope might have something to say on the matter as well.
Anyway, back to the good book thread (Note lack of capitalisation!!) for you lot while I go to confession, say a few Hail Marys and ensure my entrance into the Kingdom of God. Damn, forgot to fulfil my Easter duties, that's excommunication and Hell for me. Still, better than Limbo (like un-baptised babies were condemned to for all eternity until recently, when the Pope abolished Limbo). Don't know why I'm bothering really, non of you non-Catholics are allowed in Heaven anyway.
Any of you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins? Very interesting (and entertaining, surprisingly!)
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>> I go to confession, say a few Hail Marys and ensure my entrance into the
>> Kingdom of God. Damn, forgot to fulfil my Easter duties, that's excommunication and Hell for
>> me.
Hah taking the short cut are we, and what entitles you to pass purgatory ye sinner.:-)
I'm so lapsed now it'll take me two lifetimes to catch up with all i've missed, and the poor priest who takes my next confession better bring a packed lunch and a sleeping bag.
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"I'm so lapsed now it'll take me two lifetimes to catch up with all i've missed, and the poor priest who takes my next confession better bring a packed lunch and a sleeping bag."
Same here GB! Hence the forget Purgatory and straight to Hell!
I feel so guilty - do you?? (I don't, but I gather, as a lapsed RC, I should!!)
Hell can't be worse than delivering cars anyway can it???
P
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>> I feel so guilty - do you?? (I don't, but I gather, as a lapsed
>> RC, I should!!)
Yes i do, and i've got the whole Irish Catholic guilt thing right through me, it's a curse and a blessing i suppose, it helps you to be able to see both sides of a discussion safe in the knowledge they're both wrong:-)
>> Hell can't be worse than delivering cars anyway can it???
I wouldn't bank on it, the place'll be full of politicians, better off reclaiming the faith if for no other reason than avoiding them, we've all suffered them enough as it is.
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>> Well, there's a good few Catholics in my family and I reckon they might disagree. I think the Pope might have something to say on the matter as well.
Perhaps you baled out too young, Phil, to have fully taken in the Catholic Church's attitude to the Bible. Unlike Baptists and the like, Catholics' ears are not pounded by Biblical quotes all the time. Naturally the important bits are quoted, and the text is studied in what I always felt was a somewhat hurried and perfunctory way. Because the word of God is profuse, varied and often puzzling or even scandalous. So it needs to be controlled and interpreted by those who Know: the clergy. You put your finger on it actually: Catholics don't really need to Bible-bash because they've got the Pope.
The Church never wanted the Bible to be translated into English in the first place. Or the ritual of the Mass. People were only going to misunderstand it and start tiresome heresies.
>> non of you non-Catholics are allowed in Heaven anyway.
Tosh actually. There are several forms of 'baptism' which mean, in effect, that a virtuous individual who would have been a member of the Church if they had known how important it was counts, in the eye of God, as a member of the church. The Jesuits among others are much too fly to try to make educated modern liberals believe all their non-catholic friends are condemned to eternal hell fire. That would be asking for mass defection.
Alas (some might think), even these ingenious bits of political trimming couldn't keep me marching in step after the age of 17 or so. My views are not dissimilar to Dawkins's, but I do think he bangs on a bit. In his own way he's a believer.
As are you and GB to judge by your admissions of guilt for 'lapsing'. I didn't 'lapse', I rejected the doctrine. And I don't feel guilty about it. But I do feel guilty about my faults, moral lapses and misdeeds in a way that some others don't. Is a distant drowned voice trying to tell me that these faults and misdeeds are 'sins'?
I wouldn't be surprised.
:o}
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WARNING! To be ignored by all but AC. Irrelevant to all but seriously lapsed Catholics!!!
Bit slow getting back to you AC - been rather busy.
"Perhaps you baled out too young, Phil"
"non of you non-Catholics are allowed in Heaven anyway.
Tosh actually.
You are probably right - first doubts I had were when I was about 11. Being at a non-Catholic school, we had to stay behind on a Friday after school to have RE delivered by a Catholic priest. He told us that only Catholics could go to heaven. Being young and innocent I asked about my Granny. "She's really nice and kind and she goes to church several times a week and sings in the choir and helps at jumble sales etc and I've never heard her say a bad word against anyone - she's really nice, honest." Answer, no she can't go to heaven, because she's C of E and not baptised into "The Church". Another lad asked if his dog could go to heaven. Answer No. Then many others joined in - what, no animals in heaven, what about my dog - he's a good dog. What about my Mum, she's not Catholic but she's the best Mum, what about all those people in he world who have never even heard of the Catholic church etc Why not, they haven't done anything wrong. Answer was again - they've not been baptised; and then we got to the unbaptised, just born babies - Limbo for them, for all eternity, not Heaven, not Hell, just a strange nothingness in Limbo. I couldn't believe Jesus (or God) could be so cruel to my Granny or my friend's dog and his Mum (who was really, really nice and very attractive even to an 11 year old who was still playing with his Dinky Toy)
Father Byrne was the priest - I remember exactly as he was at those moments as he sat before us.
" I rejected the doctrine"
At that moment I did also. Though I had to go on with the church going lark for some years to avoid family "problems."
"And I don't feel guilty about it. But I do feel guilty about my faults, moral lapses and misdeeds in a way that some others don't. Is a distant drowned voice trying to tell me that these faults and misdeeds are 'sins'?
I wouldn't be surprised"
Nor me!!! ;-)
Apologies to rest of you - if you ain't beeen brung up in a Catholic family you won't understand what I'm on about!!
Off to seek a plenary indulgence now - otherwise heaven is closed to me!!!
Phil
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>> Father Byrne was the priest
I too came across many clerics of that stripe, PhilW. Nuns could be especially inaccurate and dodgy. However, having cultivated parents, and in particular a skeptical, non-Catholic father, I learned early that even the Anointed could retail a thoroughly crappy discourse and that it was best to ignore what was obviously half-improvised by some dunderhead to impress what they imagined were impressionable children.
My mother had a distinguished Jesuit uncle, with whom my father enjoyed playing chess when he came to stay. My father liked him a lot and used to say approvingly that he was a 'wicked old man' (only when playing chess though). In my early adolescence I was persuaded to learn to serve at Mass (=be an altar boy, for any non-Catholics who have strayed into church here) for this great-uncle of mine, and had to practise on local priests first. But it really wasn't my sort of thing. Just for a start it meant getting up early.
When I decided not to be a believer any more my mother did worry about it a bit and I carried on going to church sometimes to avoid upsetting her. But it isn't psychologically comfortable to mislead your parents any more than strictly necessary, so I soon came clean. She was OK about it.
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>> I was tempted to de-capitalize it when it was posted originally.
Feel free, PU. Wouldn't want people thinking I was one of those religious types! :-)
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I have a few books still to read that I got for a good price on Amazon. I will try to read them when on holiday in the next week. And I have a technical book to read too.
Will try to use mostly the Sony eBook reader because of the readability in the bright light abd battery life. Shame Amazon books need converting first. And the Kindle does not support library rentals either.
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Anyone who wants to be put off the Bible only has to look at the internet commentary on the Hopi sage's nice, sensible, reasonable, but hardly original or informative, sermon posted by Dutchie elsewhere. The mentality of some US bible-bashers makes your blood run cold, or it does mine anywayAnyone who wants to be put off the Bible only has to look at the internet commentary on the Hopi sage's nice, sensible, reasonable, but hardly original or informative, sermon posted by Dutchie elsew
Quote from AC.
I think we have got our wires crossed somehwere.The reason I brought this statement up from the native american whas the way we treat the planet.I don't believe in some of the rubbish what is said by US bible bashers..
I don't want to sermon anybody if people believe in a god or higher spirit I have respect for that.Its the way you live and treat other people which is inportant to me.Believer or not!
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>> Believer or not!
Hey, take it easy Dutchie! It is you who are getting the wires crossed Mynheer!
Naturally I didn't imagine for a moment you had the barmy internet commentary in mind when you posted the very nice, sensible and sympathetic sermon by the Hopi sage. I wouldn't even have looked at them if someone else hadn't drawn attention to the particularly insane one about number plates. That made me look and notice that a lot of the other comments were barking (and horrible) as well.
But to you Dutchie, nothing but respect so far. You are no Geerd Wilders in my book.
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Its difficult the written word,when people have a conversation you can see somebodys facial expression body movement.On a computer its cold you try to make a picture of somebody or try to have a gut feeling what the person is like.
I have respect for you also AC.We all have diverse opinions which is great in my opinion.Ididn't follow that either about number plates,it takes all sorts.
Geert Wilders is clever I have listened to a few of his speeches.He followed Pim Fortuin who got killed.Geert plays on peoples tribal instincts and he knows how to do it.Its a kind of apartheid he preaches .Its reckoned he is employed by zionist but that is another discussion.
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The Good Book Thread. - Perky Penguin
