Two things of motoring interest are due to happen on March 14.
One is the Bahrain Grand Prix, which I reckon will go ahead.
But I reckon the other thing of interest will not happen.
What do you think I'm referring to?
Clue: I think we will all still be posting on here come Monday morning.
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About as much chance as button wining I would think.
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...About as much chance as button wining I would think...
Ho-ho.
Disappointed to hear him moaning about the car after qualifying.
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. . . hope this will be at latest the 14th March.
It doesn't specify which year.
Joking aside, I must confess to finding the whole thing astonishing. If anyone had told me at the beginning of February what was going to happen, I would not have believed it. Sad.
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I can't see what could cause such a long delay, internet forum software is not exactly rocket science given the number of them that are about.
Maybe The Backroom has been quietly dropped?
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>> Maybe The Backroom has been quietly dropped?
>>
And if it has, would anyone miss it?
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>> would anyone miss it?
Yes.
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"would anyone miss it?"
Of course.
To say otherwise would be a bit like dumping an old girlfriend and then slagging her off.
One shouldn't forget all the good times just because one is twonking someone else...
Edit: And one shouldn't rule out the possibility of visiting said old girlfriend from time to time and twonking her for old time's sake.
Last edited by: BiggerBadderDave on Sat 13 Mar 10 at 22:57
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...And one shouldn't rule out the possibility of visiting said old girlfriend from time to time and twonking her for old time's sake...
I dunno about old girlfriends, but I've only got so much 'forum time' which was pretty much used up by the old place and is now used up here.
Which makes me monagamous rather than promiscuous, I suppose.
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Look it goes like this
You twonk the old, the old leaves, you twonk the new. The old comes back so you twonk the old and the new. Old and new find out you are twonking both, and both leave, leaving you with no twonking.
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...Look it goes like this...
Very complicated - makes celibacy look attractive.
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It's not rocket science. You secretly video yourself twonking both, and use it for fuel for the fire when twonking alone.
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>> It's not rocket science. You secretly video yourself twonking both and use it for fuel
>> for the fire when twonking alone.
Be careful what you do with those tapes! :)
tinyurl.com/y8gld8q
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I would have thought it was in their interest to open it as soon as they can, so they may well just do that on Monday. For some reason I had thought it was Saturday, but then I have never been great at dates!
From our time there I know that launches just before the weekend weren't a good idea in case anything went wrong - which they did on occasions - and neither were launches early in the week because the traffic is higher and the effect any problems exacerbated. That only leaves Tuesday - Thursday for changes, but that isn't always practical.
Here we have been a bit cavalier and just made changes whenever, but then there aren't too many of you here (although it has been good to see so many more joiining), and we know that you are all very forgiving and would politely tell us of any wrongdoing. ;-)
We tend to work evenings, weekends or whenever one has to, so it's more a case of no drastic changes before holidays. We also use a wonderful subversion system for source code management (as suggested by the very fine LEDFoot) which means that we can roll back to a previous version if we have to.
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> Here we have been a bit cavalier and just made changes whenever
Ah - A unix sysop at work
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We've got a few Cavalier fans here too.
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did anyone sign up for the user testing on the other site?
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I'm the kind of person who would have, but having signed up on here I'm not sure I'd be welcome... and therein lies the crux of the matter. It seems to me that everyone (so far) on C4P is pretty much sticking to the rules (naming and shaming, swearing) that were in place on HJ but with a more relaxed feel about the whole environment (see Cars For Sale - no serious ads as yet but the TIC ones have been allowed to remain visible).
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>> did anyone sign up for the user testing on the other site?
I contemplated it, but then thought they might be looking for someone with previous experience ;o)
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As only a semi-resigned mod I was surprised not to have received some news - but I had to reload my entire system last week and I've lost my account details...
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The fact that the notice has not been updated with some news, would suggest to me that the forum isn't suddenly going to spring to life tomorrow.
Not sure who the developers are, but perhaps HJ hired the old Duke Nukem Forever team.
tinyurl.com/2kylqz
You'll know that there is a problem, when the current notice changes to - "WHEN IT'S DONE"
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Thanks for the link; I found it an interesting read. Not being part of the gaming community I had no idea that "Duke Nukem If Ever" was so well known for being vaporware.
The thing I took away from reading this was that Broussard (the guy who ran the development outfit) did not have a vision for what the finished product would look like. He merely saw things he liked or thought should be included in the final product and then asked for them to be implemented. The schedule slipped because he was always playing catch up with the latest technology and was fearful of not having the best game release, or so it seems.
It brings to mind a verse that says "without vision the people will perish".
The thing is that here on C4P I have a very clear idea of what we want to do. I believe that all one has to do is set the tone and feel of a place. (The same goes for leading any organisation.) The rest just follows. So here we said "chill, relax, have fun, respect one another, be courteous if you have disagreements etc. and pretty well all of you have bought into this. It felt right. We know that this site's success is dependent almost entirely on the community and our job is merely to set the tone and facilitate relationships and access to good information.
We will also be making more incremental changes over time. The Duke Nukem crowd couldn't cope with releasing anything that wasn't perfect, so it never got released. We are going to make some mistakes on the way, but trust that is part of the overall tone of acceptance on this site. As you can see, I also believe that changes rely on a dialog with our users. You are very much part of the process. I trust that you all also understand we can't share as much as we would like because all good ideas are copied and we need to keep an edge.
On a related note, I have now sorted out some of the algorithms (maths and stuff) to do the next thing here. It will take some tweaking to get it right, so we will have to run it for a while to see the kind of data it produces. ... and I was just thinking the other day that all the years of study in Aeronautics was never going to be used. At least some of the numerical methods gleaned from that might come to good use!
We can't wait to get going. But back to the boring stuff for now.
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>> On a related note I have now sorted out some of the algorithms (maths and
>> stuff) to do the next thing here.
Great - a daily sudoku!
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i hate sudoku my mate broke a toe last week doing it
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"Did anyone sign up for the user testing on the other site?"
Yes - I was invited to and everything seemed to work. So I don't think it'll be far off - and I do hope that both forums (or even fora) can coexist happily without excessive rivalry or - to coin a phrase - offslagment.
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I tried, but something deterred me, I can't remember what.
I had no idea BBD and Zero-san were so polymorphously perverse. The ideas of the HJ backroom and twonking have never seemed to me to be natural stablemates. But one learns something every day.
Twonking indeed! Snort!
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HJ's site has provided me with many hours of entertainment - so i won't be knocking him or his site in the current circumstances.
A little competition was never a bad thing however and i think if he lets photos and video clips be posted direct from a phone, he will be onto a winner.
There are several street scenes that i could have posted direct from the Philippines if that facility were available.
So, while our current host is much appreciated, let's hear a round of applause and appreciation for HJ, who's work has entertained us over many years.
Regards
Oilrag
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Well, Rattle has already made me feel very, very old by posting about a lock-up when he got home and before he went to bed. I realised I had been up for 15 minutes before he posted!
I enjoyed the BR ...eventually, after my debut on there.
The thing to consider though is that I only stayed because of my stubborness to prove that everyone has a right to an opinion, to be treated civilly and that 'class', the ability to spell and write gramatically correct sentences, doesn't mean they are a lesser or greater person.
I don't quite know if I ever succeeded, but I do suspect that along with my attitude to never giving up on anything, however hard it becomes, I shall continue to visit the backroom now and again to do just that.
The BR feels to me like being at work, where it feels so much like being at home here. I can relax and write what I feel from the heart, without fear of being misunderstood or attacked by those who have a far better education than I have.
The need to prove trivial facts and provoke, may well be seen as some as a mark of intelligence, but is seen by others as willy waving and really becomes quite tedious.
An example I can use is in a post yesterday morning, I was allowed to go off topic to make you all aware of what can happen to a lorry driver in an accident and the result of those actions upon his life, even though no blame could be attached to him.
No-one commented, apart from GB who understands that situation exactly.
A lot of you read it though, and it will be stored away in your minds and remembered when needed in cases of media reporting and you now have a little insight of something you didn't have before.
I wouldn't have been allowed to do that in the BR, and if the mods had allowed it, I would have been attacked by the few who always felt the need to turn anything into an argument.
As for photo's and video clips in the forums, for me that is a big no.
So many of us now use a mobile dongle to connect to the internet when away from home and if I have to wait for those to load then quite honestly I would rather not bother.
A link is all that's needed and then everyone has a choice of when to click on it.
As admin on the PDA forums, my first job as an early riser has to be to check for overnight spammers and to mod the posts on there, but my second visit will always be here to see what you lot have been up to overnight too:)
Whatever is on offer next week, I can't see that changing!
Pat
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Yes, I did get an invite, but it seemed a bit impersonal after 400 + weeks there and I just didn't bother. I probably will go back for a look, but tbh I felt a bit let down by it's sudden demise without warning.
MD
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...tbh I felt a bit let down...
I think towards the end, we as posters were taken for granted and treated quite badly.
Threads were locked for no good reason whatsoever, and any questioning was met with: "Like it, lump it, or we'll shut your account."
Much as I enjoyed a lot of my time there, I was almost relieved when it collapsed.
A fresh start somewhere else might not be a bad thing, I thought, and so it has proved to be.
This site will evolve, but I'm a great believer in setting off on the right foot, which I think we have, and this will stand us in good stead in the future.
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collapse of the backroom was caused by members though, wasnt it? A certain new member going into restricted areas and posting it for all to see.
Or so it seems and i may be wrong
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>> collapse of the backroom was caused by members though wasnt it? A certain new member
>> going into restricted areas and posting it for all to see.
>>
>> Or so it seems and i may be wrong
Well not really. Those who weren't mods should not have been able to get into the restricted mods playground in the first place.
It wasn't difficult to get in there because the forum panel on the front of that site had links to all areas of the Backroom including the restricted area. Clicking on the links took you there. Google also helpfully (not) followed those links and cached them! So following the link Google had also took you there. (e.g. google "Honestjohn Forum Software" at the time. It's gone now from Google's cache). An unfortunate mistake to have the link in the first place and an unfortunate mistake to let the link work once you were there. I hope that is gracious enough.
I personally wouldn't have posted it for all to see even if it was open. So I agree with you on that one. I don't hold view that it is always good to make all information public. Certain things are private because it is better that way. But sadly (IMHO) not everyone agrees with this.
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>>>"I personally wouldn't have posted it for all to see even if it was open. So I agree with you on that one. I don't hold view that it is always good to make all information public. Certain things are private because it is better that way. But sadly (IMHO) not everyone agrees with this."
===
I would completely disagree with this. When it became obvious on HJ how the mods were toying with members accounts, posting "as" members, keeping plain text passwords for the webmasters own purposes etc, manupulating accounts and preventing members logging on in other ways than a straightforward and upfront ban...
...I think it was damn good that someone took the opportunity to copy and paste this stuff for all to see.
How can you possibly suggest actions should have been unpublished when they were in direct conflict with the best interests of the forum members? (almost like saying "as long as people don't see how they are being talked about and manipulted, that's fine")
Jeez, keep everything public, stop these private cabals developing... it should not take these pro-active freedom campaigners to see what dirty tricks were being played behind the scenes.
The fact that moderators (here) resigned when I pointed out some things had been going on here and in HJ, shows they should not have been happening. I did not copy/paste the HJ stuff, I was simply sent selected items by email.
Keeping dirty washing quiet is always bad news. How on earth can a motoring forum defend having ANY "secrecy"? This is not MI5 or Special Branch. You are just discussing cars etc (not national security), so let's ditch the "private discussion moderators" forum.
I wonder what has been said in the one that undoubtedly exists behind the scenes, here? No doubt we will never find out...
...after all, if it's harmless, publish it.
If it's not published, then it can't be harmless, can it?
Ling
Last edited by: LINGsCARS on Sun 14 Mar 10 at 15:42
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>> If it's not published then it can't be harmless can it?
>>
>> Ling
>>
Does the Lady have a point then Gang??
MD
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I'm admin on the PDA forums, and we have a private mods forum.
We discuss things like a vote on whether to pull a post or not, whether to ban someone etc.
It's democratic and stops one person taking a dislike to someone and taking action that isn't acceptable.
There is nothing at all wrong with that.
I think I speak for most of us here Ling, in that we really don't want to know 'what went on' or 'what you felt was wrong'.
We have left the past behind, what's done cannot be undone and for the vast majority of us, it didn't have any adverse affect.
We just want to enjoy what we have here, and show our appreciation to the people who have provided that for us and made it possible.
If that isn't what you want, then maybe this isn't the place for you?
Pat
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Bravo Pat. One day soon I will be able to give you a gold star!
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A nice glass of red will do fine :)
Possibly when we have that 'meet' around Manchester if motorbikes are allowed?!
Or can we tempt you Northerners down to The Ace Cafe on a sunny Sunday morning!
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Sun 14 Mar 10 at 17:15
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Ace Cafe too far for us oldies, Pat. I'll have the pleasure (???) of seeing you in April, all being well. Perhaps we can pick a spot suitable for a meet then.
The past is another country, which we cannot visit again.
Ted
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>> Keeping dirty washing quiet is always bad news. How on earth can a motoring forum
>> defend having ANY "secrecy"? This is not MI5 or Special Branch. You are just discussing
>> cars etc (not national security) so let's ditch the "private discussion moderators" forum.
Sorry I am confused here. I understand you want transparency, and that is commendable, but in a previous post (www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=207&m=2522) you use the term "whistleblower".
As a "motoring forum cannot defend having ANY secrecy" could you please now let us all know who this "whistleblower" is.
Last edited by: car4play on Sun 14 Mar 10 at 16:58
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The point has been made before, Ling and you'll forgive me for making it again.....If you're clearly so troubled by what has or hasn't gone on on this and the other site in question, then why are you still troubling to post here?. All will be aware of your internet presence on a variety of forums etc and it is difficult to escape noticing that wherever you appear you're not there to pass the time of day - but to create attention. The cynic would be hard pressed to avoid coming to the conclusion that you're more concerned about about promoting the name of your business (i.e. the fact that your username just happens to be the name of your website) ....than contributing for the general good or benefit of the majority. Some might say that anyone "experiencing" your website would be put off ever going back there, but I'm sure that for every fifty who thinks it's......... (insert an appropriate descripton here)......... there are some who you'll gain as a customer.....and this isn't, to the best of my knowledge, a free advertising platform for the likes of people like your good self.
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"The fact that moderators (here) resigned when I pointed out some things had been going on here"
Ling, that's a very severe case of 2+2 = 5. But fairly typical of the way you leap to conclusions in your posts.
I want to say so much more but tbh I can't be bothered because whatever is said you won't listen, or shut up, like you previously undertook you would. And before you leap to another half baked conclusion, I am not trying to gag you, but I thought you'd accepted that most people here had heard enough from you.
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Sorry to deflate your ego Ling - my resignation was nothing to do with you in any sense - you didn't enter my mind and if it wasn't for your post today you'd disappeared into an unused area of my brain ! I was very close to quitting from HJ quite recently mainly due to so much going on in my real life. The final nail in the coffin of my moderation. Ling you talk crap most of the time.
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>>Ling you talk crap most of the time.
>>
That's.....My Boy!
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>> When it became obvious on HJ how the mods were toying with members accounts posting "as" members
Er, only one moderator Ling, and he has since put his hands up to that one, which you then thanked him for his honesty.
>> I did not copy/paste the HJ stuff I was simply sent selected items by email.
That Information and all intellectual property rights in and to the Information is the property of Honest John Limited or the user of the forum. As you are openly admitting to having such information I'm sure someone from HJ's website would be interested in who sent you the email.
Ultimately though, I'm not going to bother arguing with you (for the reasons that Smokie has already given), but I will say this:- as moderators, yes we did have access to certain information - and that information WAS necessary to carry out the role of a moderator.
Your beef is with the other website, not here. Take it there please.
VxFan - C4P mod.
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1/ >> The BR feels to me like being at work where it feels so much like
>> being at home here.
2/>> An example I can use is in a post yesterday morning I was allowed to
>> go off topic to make you all aware of what can happen to a lorry
>> driver in an accident and the result of those actions upon his life even though
>> no blame could be attached to him.
3/>> As for photo's and video clips in the forums for me that is a big
>> no.
>> A link is all that's needed and then everyone has a choice of when to
>> click on it.
1/ I feel exactly the same!
Thats really why I posted 'would anyone miss it (HJBR)'
2/ I personally didnt feel the need, or maybe have the ability to find the words needed to comment on the logic used by the BiB to arrest an obviously innocent person - TBH I still don't, and am struggling to say what I mean/feel....
3/ I agree!
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well if i got an invite i must have eaten it with me egs and chips and i dont even like spam dingo.care2.com/pictures/c2c/galleries/albums/103/718842374/smilies_ect___/undecided.gif
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The above few posts re mods at the other place and secret messaging etc has me baffled...which isn't unusual i find meself in a semi bewildered state much of the time these days.
Did i as usual miss all the action, did i sneeze or blink at a crucial moment, it's ok i don't want anyone to explain anything just wondered what all the fuss is about...but what is Ling going on about.
I never did get that job offer from spooksRus.
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To answer the original question - I couldnt care less if it meets its deadline. Much of the old fabric of the BR has come here and for me, it was never the place but the people. A house is a building, a home is where the people I like are, even those who will have a shouting match over 4x4s with me :-).
I find the more relaxed tone here exactly what the BR was missing. Sometimes I felt it was getting a bit too self-important in character.
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Some content removed from this thread as it wasnot in keeping with forum policy.
That being "In this site you will be able to discuss all things motoring that you are passionate about. All we ask is that you act in a respectful and courteous manner."
VxFan. car4play mod.
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...Some content removed from this thread...
Oh dear, that's a pity - shades of the old place.
Having said that, as the OP, I would have to concede the thread title was verging on the mischievous, so fair play to the Car4play management for letting it run as they have.
I mean, BMW wouldn't let me post: 'Don't forget Ford make cars as well' on their website, would they?
Going back to the first post, it is Monday morning, the Grand Prix happened, but the other promised event did not.
Not that any of us are surprised, are we?
Speaking of the Grand Prix, I heard Schumacher saying there will be no overtaking under the current rules.
Not often you get one of the actors saying the play's rubbish - that's normally left to the critics. :)
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I am pleased we have mods that neither slumber nor sleep...
My first reaction to this action was concern, only because we like moderation to a minimum, but on reading what was removed I must say this was, given the tone we want here, completely the right thing to do. One of the objections raised (and now hidden) was who mods the mods. Well the folk here at C4P can see what is going on, so 'we' do. The private areas are for us to discuss whether certain actions should be taken or should have been taken and a consensus is reached.
Ultimately it comes down to whether one trusts a site, and how much information one is willing to part with on that site. We readily part with our bank details to sites like Amazon, Google etc. because we trust them to that extent. Some of us don't, so we don't part with that information.
As we have said before, so no more comment on this really has to be made. On this site your password gets hashed and none of us, mods, programmers, whoever, get to see the original. That way no one can get accused of anything. It keeps it simple. Whatever other sites do is up to them.
I repeat, and I know that pretty well all of you have bought into this - this site is here for your enjoyment, pleasure, escape, fun, etc.
The mods did the right thing. There was nothing in the edited posts that has not already been discussed or of relevance to THIS site and one could see that it could easily end up in a punch up in the corner.
Sorry, not in this place.
Last edited by: car4play on Mon 15 Mar 10 at 09:40
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whooa!!! No fighting - and some have seemingly already sold their souls and can't go back without grovelling or a new IP address. Lol
Posted with warmth and humour from the 7th floor of a hotel in the Philippines ;-)
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>> Posted with warmth and humour from the 7th floor of a hotel in the Philippines
Please advice as to cost of a 7th. floor hotel room there (this is non-motoring after all).
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Just under £20 a night for the top suite FT. iT's in the provinces and not a tourist area.
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Hm. I may need some average accommodation in a non-tourist Davao area sometime, or possibly Basey. I don't care about luxury.
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>> Clue: I think we will all still be posting on here come Monday morning.
Yes, but it's now Monday afternoon and HJ's is open for business!
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I don't understand any of this stuff about hacking and personation. It all passed me by.
I have to say that comrade Ling's interjections seem strangely devoid of motoring content coming (as I understand it) from a successful and admired operator in the lease market. Is it really possible that a mischievous car dealer can have torpedoed the HJ site? I'm too old for this sort of carry-on.
I see that the HJ site is indeed usable again, but most of the threads look old. And the CBCB tab has vanished.
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Seems like it's up and running and i for one will be visiting both sites, no reason why both sites can't exist in harmony, well i'd like to think so anyway.
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shes not wearing harmony....................
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quite right, GB, plenty of room for both .. competition/variety's good for the soul .. no man is an island etc
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Seems to be firing on only one cylinder at the moment...
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Just one problem how do we know which site to post to? I can see many duplicate posts.
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...Seems to be firing on only one cylinder at the moment...
That's putting it kindly - I'd forgotten how cranky and slow navigation on HJ can be.
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I don't think I can be bothered posting on there anymore, unless traffic on this site drops off :(
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I've had a quick look. It's nowhere near as nice as it was before - the whole site is now horribly cluttered, and could do with a re-design. Will have to wait & see before using it again.
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Didnt take long for Jbif to snarl his dog breath on the other site.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 15 Mar 10 at 18:23
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>> Didnt take long for Jbif to snarl his dog breath on the other site.
>>
I was going to say Buffalo breath AE, but you beat me to it. Best he stays there.
MD
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...Didnt take long for Jbif to snarl his dog breath on the other site...
Yes, only his mother could love him, as we used to say.
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:):):)
Just for once I'd love a smilie!
Pat
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rtj70 has resumed there as a mod, along with new mods Avant and WellKnownSid.
Altea Ego is the first to reply on their IHAQ thread.
gordonbennet is also back on HJ.
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>> gordonbennet is also back on HJ.
he never left, as i've said from day one here i'll use both sites until the gaffer of either tells me to clear off, assuming i don't lose the will to live waiting for t'other to load.
more than enough room for two decent motoring forums, and the politics of the whole thing go over my pretty little head...ok try to imagine i'm pretty then.;)
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I am trying, or that's what swmbo says.
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>> and WellKnownSid.
He can't be that 'wellknown' as I can't recall the name from my time there. Maybe he was one of the many good guys, in which case he escaped the radar.
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I'm far too committed to 4play to bother with Honest Johnnies anyway.
Last edited by: Dog on Mon 15 Mar 10 at 19:42
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I have had a browse on the BR, but its too slow and I find the wider variation of topics on here more interesting. While primarily a motoring forum, you can also have a moan about the price of bread on here if you really want to :-)
Having sampled this place, Im won over. HJ is still useful for the CBC etc though.
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Crikey, I missed all this shenanigans!!!
As an ex-mod elsewhere, I don't see any issues with having a mod section. It's a necessary part of forum life.
I'll also be looking over both forums, but I've decided to only post if it's something I can contribute to, or if it involves a laugh. I just about stop posting on HJ because it seemed that many threads degenerated into confrontation. Not what you need after 12 hours dealing with similar things at work.
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MLC
I was amazed by the persistence of yourself and other BiB contributors. Always intersting to learn how the police see things, why the job is done in particular way and what constraints you have to work under. Can understand those who ask why and seek elaboration but why some folks thought agressive challenge the way to go I'll never understand.
You can more change those than the guy on the customer helpline can change Social Security regs or rates.
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Well, I've just been back 'there' and the 1st thing I noticed was another browser page opened, with an Ad on it.
that has not happened since the last time I was there.
That is one thing I can't stand, partly because I use firefox, and save the tabs when I close it down.
having another page opening and not realising mean I lose those sites, I want to browse again!
I think, on reflection, I'm happier here, and here alone!
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mlc. I also felt sorry for you on occasion re. harsh responses (albeit, I'm sure you're big enough and ugly enough to take it (as my mother may have said....there again, on reflection, she may not have...). I was very irritated by some of the Police related views aired and did notice that you seemed to take a break after one particular episode. I trust the current level of respect / tolerance / whatever the word, being shown here may continue.
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The old BR is still (Non)working the same as before it shut down. I thought they were fixing it?
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I've just come off there - working fine for me. Maybe you need four wheels.....:)
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and with your new powers too A! you kept that quiet.
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suppose it beats pulling chords
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It still has issues on there... Avant is being polite as we should be. No need to say too much. Not many posts tonight there.
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I posted a couple of threads over there to help kick start it.
Might do the photo quiz on whichever place is most appreciative of the effort ....
Oh.. Thought i was posting under henry the green engine ;-)
Sorry ;-)
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(albeit I'm sure you're big enough and ugly enough to take it )
I prefer 'big and handsome enough'! :)
I always enjoyed HJ and was on there many years. It was always a grown up forum. I felt it suddenly gained a good number of quite aggressive posters and the feeling of the forum changed considerably.
I'll be more of a lurker than poster on here. But hopefully it will become 'just like the old days'.
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Is anyone else seeing 'new' Over There? I'm not.
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Me neither, which makes it too much hard work to bother really:)
Pat
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...Is anyone else seeing 'new' Over There? I'm not...
Nope, fewer features than when it shut down.
If that's the result of three weeks' development, I'm a banana.
Seems to me there's still a lot gone on we've not been told, and probably never will be.
OK, we don't really need to know, but it's human nature to be curious.
Hands up all those who rubberneck at road accidents? I do.
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>> If that's the result of three weeks' development I'm a banana.
Change your handle to fyffes please
>> Hands up all those who rubberneck at road accidents? I do.
I admit I do. I get kind of disapointed if there is no cause to be seen for the huge jam I have just suffered. Terrible attitude I know but hey, Honest.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 16 Mar 10 at 08:45
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I thought the same about no *new* until I remembered to sign in then they all appeared.
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>> I thought the same about no *new* until I remembered to sign in then they
>> all appeared.
Doh! Thanks Fenlander. Also was requested to 'change' my password, although it didn't appear to mind that I changed it to the same one.
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>> I thought the same about no *new* until I remembered to sign in then they
>> all appeared.
Also interesting that it shows all posts as 'new' from 22 Feb 11:41 (on Motoring), which is how I think it should be - it hasn't assumed that I've read them just because I've 'logged out' or whatever.
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...Change your handle to fyffes please...
Well, I do drive some people bananas, and I certainly make the odd slip-up.
But, I dunno, I've been ifithelps for a good while, I don't even like it, but it's me.
So back I go.
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Another mention for this site on HJ, visible at the moment in the 'How many regulars are still here?' thread.
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...Another mention for this site on HJ...
I'm fairly sure that was there earlier, disappeared and has now appeared again.
Might be some software/password shenanigans going on.
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Appears to be down at the moment. you can ping it, but no web server
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I put a couple of 'reports' from the Philippines over there - no response. Also impossibly slow to load out here in the Far East.
Did you notice what seemed lke a spoiler by brian the lion , advertizing this place.
It all reminds me of being back in primary school - join one of the gangs or or..... Or what?
Choice 1 - some nasty sniping and not too well hidden racist undertones.
Choice 2 - walled garden - no rocking the boat and all sit facing each other a gagga...
Snipe and cutting or gagga multi-grins ;-)
Which way to go.... Oh! *it banned from both ;-)
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I didn't enjoy the way HJ deleted posts and sometimes whole threads if they weren't going his way. Far too dictatorial.
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>>>I didn't enjoy the way HJ deleted posts and sometimes whole threads if they weren't going his way.
Far too dictatorial.<<<
de aquerdo (I agree)
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It is interesting to notice that as soon as the Back Room got up and running again, another lot of refugees seemed to land on the beach here.
On the other hand, still only one post on Technical here today!
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Interesting also that the HJ non motoring forum has finally started having subjects that mean something and not, I have a question - volume XXX.
This new site feels like a breath of fresh air. Thanks to whoever is behind it.
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How does HJ make money by the way?
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By being paid for all the adverts that pop up on his website.
Interestingly, an excellent comment on there just now states along the lines that there are more adverts on HJ than there are on all the ITV companies combined!
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There turns out to be so much deleting and behind the scenes politics over the other side that I find myself unexpectedly reluctant to start using it again. Most of it had gone over my head previously, but it's a little bit too stage managed for comfort.
I also just tried turning off adblock (as I have done for here). Wow.
HJ is unbeatable for the tech forum, but I can see myself confining social discussion to here in future.
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Hi,
Am I missing something because I cannot see any posts at all from the owner?
Something like "Welcome back to the site" might be nice.Perhaps he is no longer involved?
Very strange...but I stand to be corrected.
BTW,Congrats to the new site owners,it does have a better feel about it somehow.
Thanks....Phil.
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>> BTW Congrats to the new site owners it does have a better feel about it
>> somehow.
>> Thanks....Phil.
Thanks - good to have you all here, and it's good that everyone is keeping the pleasant feel to this place.
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>> Something like "Welcome back to the site" might be nice.
His editor (HJ Editor) has posted it on his behalf in the motoring discussion forum.
"It's been tested by a large number of users and is now in a state that everyone should be happy with."
Having been back for a look, it's in a state alright. A right state. That was one of the many reasons for me quitting as a moderator after just over 7 years on there as I was not happy with the new forum, or the lack of progress from the developer in trying to get it working properly. Several weeks on and it's still not right now.
I wish the new moderators over there the very best of luck with it. Just don't hold your breath while waiting for it to be fixed.
"but it's still very much the Back Room we all know and love."
Yeah, right!
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I think have missed something but what is that flash add doing? Its draining a lot of CPU resources.
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Well that's Flash for you. No wonder Apple doesn't like it. What can we say, sorry...
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its not using any cpu resource here,
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I know I shouldn't mock my former residence of the past 7 years, but when they go to efforts to stop people discussing my current residence, they then go and stick it on the front page ###, I just gotta laugh.
### - in the "latest links" column over on the RHS, "titled Car 4 play mentions".
See tinyurl.com/car4play
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 18 Mar 10 at 13:57
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>> I know I shouldn't mock my former residence of the past 7 years but when
>> they go to efforts to stop people discussing my current residence
Is this true?
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>> Is this true?
Someone emailed me to say that car4play is in their swear filter.
Now I could be equally as petty and put the link to HJ in ours, but we've no issues with people discussing the Backroom here.
Vx.
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>>> ### - in the "latest links" column over on the RHS, "titled Car 4 play mentions". <<<
(Hehe!) I've just seen it ... what a bunch of pillocks :-D
Last edited by: Webmaster on Fri 19 Mar 10 at 09:31
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Link brings up a "404" message for me. Is that indicative of an HJ site action, or a browser problem? Firefox used on iMac.
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>> Link brings up a "404" message for me. Is that indicative of an HJ site
>> action or a browser problem? Firefox used on iMac.
That's happened with a number of posts - one yesterday was titled 'Juicy Lucy' which made me very curious, but in fact it looks like she's just a new BRer.
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Well, it all depends on whether you use your car for business or for play, doesn't it!
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>> Well it all depends on whether you use your car for business or for play
>> doesn't it!
>>
Juicy Lucy has been rumbled in her technical question over there about tarting up her car for play. They have also unblocked the thread where jbif refers to this site. Some backroomers are decrypting the clues there and becoming new car4players.
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Kept my council until now - the new HJ site isn't for me. Too untidy.
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Just looked at the technical over there and saw a post from me regarding a friends warning light on a Polo. From 6 years ago! Then Pug edited it 3 years ago! And now its been resurrected!
I am trying to remember who I knew with a Polo 6 years ago!!
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dunno if its old age or what, but I have to say I struggle with the two Forums. I think i shall mostly stick here so if you want to be where I am not then you know where to go!
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So we get Zero and they get Oily...... :)
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>> So we get Zero and they get Oily...... :)
>>
>>>>>>>>>> is fair exchange no? :-)
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What about us swingers who like to play around in both camps, please can i be in your gang?
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Of course you can as long as
a: you dont mind being insulted by me
b: your name is not jbif
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>> >> So we get Zero and they get Oily...... :)
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>> is fair exchange no? :-)
I can do you some obscure quizes and rambling prose if you miss him?
not posted from my mobile phone in the philipines.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 18 Mar 10 at 16:56
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Miaow:)
I've sort of got used to just 'chatting' on here and not having to worry about being grammatically correct.
I like the way I can say 'lorry driver' and not get blamed for everything, too.
I've had a look, but this still feels like home while the backroom used to feel like work, but after this it would seem more like school again.
I'll just stay here and if they have a go at lorry drivers I'll send all me moaning mates over from our forums:)
Pat
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you'll be fine on here as long as you dont mention overtaking lorries on the A14.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 18 Mar 10 at 17:59
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Sshhhhhh.......................I never did that!
Pat
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Pat, have you ever been to Slovenia?
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No, I haven't...............but I'm curious to know why you ask?
Pat
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Must have been a different lady lorry driver that I met!
That's all, no other complications.
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sniff sniff zero smells a story, scandal even!
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I had a wee drink in the other bar. It was OK. I'll still pop in sometimes. The party is definitely in here at the moment though.
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What has struck me about this forum is that the non-motoring section seems to be starting to thrive. Given how zelous the other place was about staying on topic, this to me a clear indication that more liberal direction is what alot of people want, both on moderation and topics.
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But the main moderators are the same as the old site without the need to protect a certain business. The other two including me were briefly mods on here ;-)
It's nicer over here though. Thanks to Stephen.
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It's a bit like a very posh transport cafe:)
Pat
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Wot jew bleedin' mean, *caff*?
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And don't call her Cath - her name's Pat. :)
(With a nod to Airplane!)
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As Humph says, the party is here for the moment. I have read this thread with a certain bemusement though. Always thought Zero was an HJ loyalist as well as neighbour in the obscure wastes of Surrey.
I always approved of HJ and still do. His column in the Saturday Terrorflag (hooray! I can say that now I think) is exemplary in its pro-motorist, anti-industry approach. As a professional car hack and tester he has access denied to virtually all of us, and doesn't throw it away or waste it or ponce about with it. Good taste in horseflesh too.
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With no offense to HJ, the videos on HJ site looks less professional compared with those of WhatCar or Parkers'.
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Perhaps, but HJ does them with a panache that others just can't match.
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I like HJ's tests meself, no they arn't polished or boring and i think he tries to put a bit of thinking humour into them, at least thats how they come across to me.
He doesn't come across as taking himself too seriously either, unlike some other testers who do, though when you read his advice and deeper comments on cars he knows his stuff.
The hat test for headroom and how he usually sits in the back complete with titfer to show rear access is useful, again almost tongue in cheek, i often wonder if he's winding some other testers up in his own style.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 19 Mar 10 at 09:46
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I have nothing to base this on, but I get the feeling that "HJ" has been removed from that site, It feels like its now a publishers site, with him as a contributing journo. Has he been bought out?
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>> I have nothing to base this on but I get the feeling that "HJ" has been removed from that site
I have the same thought. Unfortunately I no longer have any inside information.
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>> I have nothing to base this on but I get the feeling that "HJ" has
>> been removed from that site It feels like its now a publishers site with him
>> as a contributing journo. Has he been bought out?
>>
I think you are on to something. There is no direct email link now to write to HJ there. The old site used to have an email address to contact him.
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I've raised this elsewhere with no answer... it is so at odds with the (sometimes) over assertive and upfront HJ we've seen for a decade that he would hide when it's all going wrong??
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Oh no, not another forum.
HJ, here, and the real HJ.
Or perhaps the next person washed up on the Car4play beach will be wearing a rather wet trilby.
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Funnily enough I'd been looking out for a whiff of damp trilby since this place started but as you say no sign..... yet.
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But can we be sure.....................?
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Maybe he's more than just a disguised poster?
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Looks like HJ is back in the Back Room after being away.
Or at least someone claiming to be HJ is there.
;-)
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>> Looks like HJ is back in the Back Room after being away.
The strange thing is, he's no busier now than he was before the site update. Maybe he was as fed up with it as I was with things not working properly ;o)
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Is there a Boris the Spider moderating on the other site?
Didnt pat have a spider named Boris?
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mmm.... I see a wee conspiracy theory starting.......
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>> mmm.... I see a wee conspiracy theory starting.......
>>
Nothing to conspire about. Not the same person.
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Looks like the spider got stamped on.
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I liked the conspiracy until I checked Boris' email address ;-)
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It's not me...................honest guv!
Pat
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Oh dear some of the posters to the backroom are having a public spat with HJ.
somone accused him of not being able to project manage a wine tasting in a vinyard (well not that term exactly but similar)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=83330
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 20 Mar 10 at 18:33
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And the post wasn't deleted, and the thread didn't disappear.
:-)
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Well.... I just had a look at the link to 'the other site' and wish I hadn't!
Yet again I get a new Firefox open up with some duff advert on it.this as I said before causes me problems, as I like to continue browsing with the tabs saved when closing Firefox, the unasked for instance of the browser over rights the saved one.
I am now officially an ex poster of that place!
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...stop moaning and start complaining...
Terse, tetchy, and bordering on the nasty.
That's a post from HJ, so maybe the tone of the old place was set by its leader.
Clearly all talk of a fresh start was just that - talk.
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Nice way to speak to people who read the ads that pay your wages.
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hang on a sec, i posted a response to an apparent HJ posting on technical, Mondeo st24 handling issue.
The alleged post from HJ didn't sound right, i queried and it disappeared and WKS confirmed an imposter..possible could be some of this is too.
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I swept past 'the other place' a couple of hours ago and there was a new post supposedly from HJ which said he'd given up and then provided a link to this site.
There was also one where he said ' we don't want people like you here anyway' to the OP of the thread linked above who was saying 'Cheerio' to the forum.
They both disappeared within a few minutes :-)
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...Nice way to speak to people who read the ads that pay your wages...
Quite right, at least on here it's the ads that are offensive, not the management. :)
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I do hope it's not someone from here attempting to cause problems on the the old site, there's lots of useful information and contributors over there.
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>> I do hope it's not someone from here attempting to cause problems on the the
>> old site there's lots of useful information and contributors over there.
Me too Tom and i seriously doubt it, i hope the various mods are on email terms so if the idiot can be pinpointed he can be kicked up the back passage.
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I dont think it is anyone spoofing his ID.
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I just find the whole sorry saga very depressing - I enjoyed my time there as a contributor and reader and learnt a lot about many diverse subjects. I gave a great deal of time as a Mod and viewed it as a labour of love........but there we are life goes on. A real shame that its ended up in such a mess nonetheless.
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Well said PU. I am sure they'll get it right soon but damage is being done to HJ's reputation by those he trusts to get this right.
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I know nothing useful about the witchcraft of IT. I am a humble user only. However, as very much a layman I can say that I've seen this sort of thing before. Stock control systems which are supposed to be state of the art and are brought it to replace older versions which although flawed, by and large worked. The new system brings the company to the very brink of collapse. Order book databases similarly underdeveloped when they are intended to "improve" things. Seems to me that the bench testing is done in the real and vulnerable commercial world.
To drag the above analogies screaming and kicking back to a motoring theme, how depressingly often have we seen a new model of a car have far more problems than the fully developed outgoing model it replaces ?
I have tried very hard to look for the positives in this sorry state of affairs. Like most, I think, Car4play has been a breath of fresh air to me and I sincerely hope it continues to grow and succeed. Equally though, I would not be here and nor would many of us if it were not for a longstanding and mostly happy relationship with HJ. I wish them no harm, on the contrary, my enjoyment of the internet would be enhanced by a return to user friendliness on that site and I regret its current state.
I think, like the new car which needs a few recalls to put right, sadly I'll now wait until they've fixed it properly before trying to use it again.
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I am disappointed. For me the HJ Backroom was part of something a lot bigger and I felt I was part of that. Ok discussions sometimes got out of hand but they were well moderated with the best of intentions.
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What PU and rtj70 said. I'm very sorry about what has happened.
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I also echo Pug's comments. Having spent 7 years there as a mod, devoting a lot of my time to running a tight ship and protecting someone's business interest (while making him lots of money), it's a shame to see the way it's gone these past few weeks.
I don't think I'll ever break in those new slippers. The old ones that came across here in my hand luggage are as comfortable as ever.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 20 Mar 10 at 21:11
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i always bent over backwards to protect the good ship hj
at least here my shackles are released
god speed the good ship car4play
long may she sail.......................
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I've given up too though tried, hopefully it'll get sorted out.
Sad really.
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At the end of the day, HJ is behind the site and Im certain he is well aware of how things are. Its his name above the door. Therefore its down to him and thus disappointing. Thankfully there were also people connected to the BR who were prepared to make a difference for those let down. Bravo.
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>> Thankfully there were also people connected to the BR who were prepared to make a difference for those let down.
I tried my best while I was still there. I had several sleepness nights working long into the small hours making suggestions, highlighting problems, (in fact we all did), and despite promises everything would be resolved, it wasn't. You can only be taken for granted for so long before the excuses start to wear thin. One evening during all the chaos I recall another moderator being told to take some time out and go down the pub as that's where they were going, or words to that effect. At that point I downed tools and thought sod it if that's your attitude.
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I recall another moderator being told to take some time out and go down the pub as that's where they were going
I guess they (whoever they were) were doing the job for money, while you (the mods) were doing it because you really cared about the Back Room.
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An apology has now gone up as a sticky about "rogue postings"
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Im surprised it didnt say
---------------on behalf of the hj team------------------
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Sigh... I agree with the sentiments expressed in the dozen or so posts above this one. I enjoyed the BR but at the end of the day I choose to engage in a forum because I enjoy the conversation to be had and I value the information to be gleaned. All of the petty, backbiting subterfuge just puts me off, and given the "atmosphere" on the HJ site at the moment (it's still bookmarked on my FF toolbar, and I've browsed through it half a dozen times this week but not posted) I'm afraid I've come to the conclusion that I won't be going back.
The loss of the CBCB is a major minus point for me too, as it was a very useful reference tool when sizing up potential motors for myself, my friends and family (when acting as the "car expert" you're supposed to take to a purchase with you).
So long, old BR, and long live C4P. :-)
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EDIT: Just logged in to HJ, went into my profile (which no longer has space for a description, therefore doesn't warrant a {P} any more), and deleted my email address and password.
The message in the top right hand corner then told me "You are logged in as. | Profile | Log out", so I logged out, and am now no longer able to log back in.
Desired outcome, bizarre execution.
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>>The loss of the CBCB
I think you'll find it's still there under the 'reviews' drop down. At least I can still find Kia Pride (why would I look for that?).
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Dave and others - don't give up. Unfortunately there are rogue posters who seem to be trying to sabotage the forum, and they won't succeed. snip
As I've said before, there is no reason why both forums can't co-exist in harmony, and there are already people posting on both.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 20 Mar 10 at 23:22
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Avant it is foolish to say on here .....snip
Please delete my comment and Avant's moderators.
Removed as requested.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 20 Mar 10 at 23:23
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>> I guess they (whoever they were) were doing the job for money, while you (the mods)
>> were doing it because you really cared about the Back Room.
That's how I feel. When I was asked to be a mod there I felt really honoured. I enjoyed the site and I got the chance to help moderate it and keep it going. I work in IT and many of my suggestions have fallen on deaf ears over there. Simple things like testing and change control.
The thing I enjoyed about the old backroom was the chat/conversation and some joking about. And if most stay here so must I.
I had not realised HJ had pulled CBCB. That was very useful and something this site would not attempt to do.
At least we enjoyed it when it was there and the site will continue and get sorted. Eventually.
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>> The thing I enjoyed about the old backroom was the chat/conversation and some joking about.
>> And if most stay here so must I.
>>
Here means car4play. But you are a moderator over there at HJ as far as I can tell unless they are rogue posts in your name. Are you here or are you there or do you have your feet in both camps with one heavily planted in HJ's camp as a moderator.
Last edited by: John H on Sun 21 Mar 10 at 00:42
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"The loss of the CBCB is a major minus point for me too"
It's still there, at least as far as I can see. It's just included with the reviews.
Edit: bathtub tom got there before me!
btw, Hi, Avant! I've not give up. I'm not posting much there at the moment, but I actually spent very little time in the BR for most of 2009 and then came back.
Last edited by: tyro on Sat 20 Mar 10 at 23:15
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I really cant see that anyone from this forum would be malicious enough to deliberately sabotage the other place.
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>> I really cant see that anyone from this forum would be malicious enough to deliberately
>> sabotage the other place.
>>
IMO there is no need to sabotage the other place, the job has already been done.....
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Posted not long ago on HJ's Forum:
QUOTE
It is with much sadness that I have to make this announcement.
Due to ongoing problems with the backroom it is not financially viable to keep it going. It will shortly be taken it out of service and made Read-Only so that it can still be used as an archive for data information.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed over the years and I would also like to say a bIG bIG thank you to all the moderators for their time and effort in maintaining order on my behalf.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 21/03/2010 at 03:41
END-QUOTE
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UPDATE @ 4:07
Just checked back on HJ's site - The above post has disappeared!
What's going on?
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Does it really matter what's going on?
Do we want to know, or in fact, do we need to know?
I certainly hope that no-one from this forum is making spurious posts in the backroom, and I don't think they are.
Surely it is better to allow them time to sort out their problems and enjoy what we have here.
I'm saddened to see rivalry and bitterness posted about the BR and HJ, there is room on the internet for both of us.
It became apparent this week that the Technical forum on there is used extensively but not on this forum. Given time, both forums will take on a direction and identity of their own.
These inter-forum disagreements can be destructive and at best, end up driving people away from both forums. There is never a winner in this sort of dispute.
I get up early and look forward to waking up slowly by reading what you lot have been up to the night before and catching up on posts.
Some mornings recently, I see posters pledging allegiance to one forum, then posting on the other under a different name.
I see posts made that are nothing but s*** stirring in my book, on both forums(:
This only happens with a very small number of people, happily most of us love it here, are pleased to see the old BR up and running again, and would like to see the future of both sites prosper and develop in their own individual ways.
Let's now take a step back, behave like adults and allow both sites to do this please.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Sun 21 Mar 10 at 05:53
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...what's going on...
The Back Room is clearly a shambles, the software's not right, the motoring and particularly the general forums are not busy enough, and they seem to have a problem with rogue posters.
I can see that, and I've not been in there for more than 10 minutes in total since it reopened.
They had a good thing going, albeit greedily relying on volunteers to do work professionals should have been paid to do.
Complacency set in and they became arrogant, indifferent, and finally rude and ignorant to the customers/posters.
The favourite answer being: "If you don't like it, lump it, or go somewhere else."
You don't have to be Alan Sugar or one of the Dragons to work out a business which abuses its customers won't last long.
So the whole thing collapsed, and despite a three-week break to sort themselves out, it's still nowhere near right.
I don't wish them any ill, but before I go back, they will have to prove to me they have learned how to treat people decently, and are capable of running a forum in a competent manner.
Last edited by: ifithelps on Sun 21 Mar 10 at 07:19
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Another "gold star"to you Pat.
I am actually supposed to be having a break away this weekend, but have logged in here to check on what is going on.
As most of you were regulars on HJ for many years and know each other well, building a community that offered help and support, it is natural for you to feel aggrieved, hurt, and possibly angry about they way you think you have been treated.
As the creators of this site we have endeavoured to set the tone of this place - chilled, accepting of one another, fun, helpful, and respectful - and we are thankful that you have pretty well all enjoyed this and towed the line in this respect. Even those we thought wouldn't, in reality have. So thank you all.
However, behind this tone, we subscribe to the philosophy of:
- forgiving one's enemies - (If the other site is perceived by some to be just that, then this is what we would ask you do. Le them go. Let them "off-the-hook" as it were).
- seeking the good of those that persecute you (if you feel hard done by because your posts got snipped, references to here got banned, whatever.... just let it go and wish them well).
Now this probably sounds a bit like a preach, and it most likely is, but can we as the site owners indulge in this just because it sets out the tone and culture we would like?
We are also the first to admit that our own nature would want to do the opposite to what I have just said, so I am not pointing any fingers. All I am saying is that this goes against what we feel like doing, but I believe in the long-run will lead to the most happiness for everyone.
Enough said. I have made this thread readonly now.
1) because it is a very long thread, and the mobile browser hates it.
2) because we wanted to have the last say - very undemocratically as the site owners. We want anyone digging up this thread in the future to know what we feel - and want that to be the lasting message.
It's not because you are being censored or shut up. You are of course welcome to comment on pretty well anything you like provided it is courteous, polite and non-defamatory.
We just want to draw a line on this particular thread and move.
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Will a certain deadline be met? - Zero
