Here on the good old railways were getting more and more rude passengers who have no time for a simple please and thank you manners.
Example they walk straight up to you the only words they say is like "Kings cross", So you tell them the platform and they walk off without a thank you, It's happening every day it goes for the smaller destinations aswell.
What is it don't people have time in there such busy lifes for manners anymore?
This ranges from all walkes of life but the older mainly have more manners,The younger 16-30 god these end up on the wrong trains on purpose so very rude some of them!!
So is this just us that get these morons or does this happen everywhere else are we just too busy in our little bubble to say a simple thank you?
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I have beaten my children (metaphorically!) into being polite. Its taken years though. Other parents simply haven't the time or inclination.
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>> I have beaten my children (metaphorically!) into being polite. Its taken years though. Other parents
>> simply haven't the time or inclination.
Me too. It was hard work sometimes but it's really touching when I'm complimented on their manners and their common sense.
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People's behaviour is often a response to those they are interacting with.
Just a thought, but given the content of your recent posts, I'm guessing that if there are two staff members on a platform, and one of them is smiling, open, and receptive, and the other has a large chip on each shoulder and a face like a slapped backside, number one would not be you ?
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>> Just a thought, but given the content of your recent posts
Wow! A neww poster[1]! Welcome to the forum!
[1] Hmm.
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Some people have a very acute sense of their own status. Usually those who are only recently used to having any in fairness.
A true story from our lives. My wife decided to return to work part time only a few years back after being a full time mum for a while. She didn't want anything too challenging at first and got herself a few hours at our local Sainsburys just to ease herself back into the workplace. In her supermarket uniform, hair tied back she was almost unrecognisable.
She recalls with wry amusement how rudely she was spoken to by customers whom she knew outside work who had failed to immediately recognise her in her work clothes.
In particular a neighbour who was normally polite calling loudly to her "You..you girl !...come here at once I have a complaint and you will deal with it immediately !.....Oh....it's you dear ? How lovely to see you. How are you?"
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 13:04
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Bigtee,
You're quite right. I mentioned on the other thread how appalled i am by the way 'respectable' commuters in business suits address rail staff. I'm involved with the local rail user group. The TOC rep has who attends more than once pointed out that staff often need the physical presence of BTP to deal with customer aggression during service disruption.
OTOH if any member of my family was deliberately put on the wrong train I'd be looking to identify the staff member concerned with a view to ensuring at best, a hats off no tea, interview with their manager.
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My partners dad said that never, ever again would he be a bus driver.
Driving buses brilliant, members of the public unbearable
Instances of being spat at!, swore at, threatened - completly changes your view of human nature.
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Not just on public transport but interacting with others in shops etc:
When exactly did 'excuse me' loose the suffix please and become a command??
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I always remember my father saying that everyone, no matter who they are, deserves the same level of courtesy until they give you just cause to withdraw it. Not a bad place to start in my view.
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Plastered all over the stations is posters telling customers were not putting up with rude or violent behaviour but it's happening to all rail staff regardless if there maintennace like me or platform staff to train crews.
Young Asian males are the worst can be very rude not sure if it's there intention or it's just there way, but i won't put up with it just pass them by.
After a while you can spot a few of the difficult types if you watch them coming towards you, of course there is expetions it's good to hear a thanks now and again.
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OTOH if any member of my family was deliberately put on the wrong train I'd be looking to identify the staff member concerned with a view to ensuring at best, a hats off no tea, interview with their manager.
Ooops i must have misheard you the noise in this station with the announcements and noisey trains i thought you said................... Vey sorry sir my mistake.!!
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Well I once had the misfortune of dealing with a guy selling the tickets on the London Underground who sold me the wrong ticket and went absolutely ballistic with me when I pointed it out and asked for the correct one.
I was very polite (I always am) but to be honest I had real difficulty understanding what the hell he was saying as his cockney accent was so strong. I had to keep asking him to repeat what he was saying so maybe he thought I was winding him up, I don't know.
His attitude just reminded me of the ticket sellers on the Moscow Underground who seem oblivious to the fact that communism ceased to exist 20 years ago.
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Mind you, it has to be said, the customer service skills of most TOC staff is abysmal bordering on the dismissive and rude.
Its chicken and egg really - who was worse first. Staff or passengers.
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>> Mind you, it has to be said, the customer service skills of most TOC staff
>> is abysmal bordering on the dismissive and rude.
Quite right Z, particularly in London.
I will however give praise where it's due and say that London Midland have made great strides in this respect. With very few exceptions the staff whether retail, revenue enforcement or on train are polite and helpful. The fact that unlike their sister Southern franchise they've eschewed the route of commission paid traveling RPI's is a good aprt of this.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 14:19
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>> Mind you, it has to be said, the customer service skills of most TOC staff
>> is abysmal bordering on the dismissive and rude.
Generalisations, eh, don't you just love them!
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>> >> Mind you, it has to be said, the customer service skills of most TOC
>> staff
>> >> is abysmal bordering on the dismissive and rude.
>>
>> Generalisations, eh, don't you just love them!
I like to call it experience.
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>> I like to call it experience.
>>
No, Zero, its a generalisation, and as one of those who work in the front line for a TOC I take offence at your slur on my character and those of my colleagues!
Think about your next reply to this post carefully before you reply, please.
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No its experience as a customer. Why should I think carefully? does experience as a fare paying customer not count? I think it probably does.
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So you tar me and my colleagues with the same brush... Therefore I have reported your post as offensive.
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Hobby, little consolation but i don't read it as an attack on you.
In my experience your staff really aren't that good at all, but of course there will be gems among them. To be fair i did encounter one once and she made my morning.
I understand, just listening to some of the other passengers, that the customers are probably 10 times worse, but i don't have to deal with them, other than to roar at window shaking volume "get your f'ing bag of the seat you f'ing scroat!"[1] so they don't figure into my thoughts.
[1] i've never actually done that but i've played it out in my mind a few times. I wouldn't, i'm too tall, it'd be seen as bullying rather than just a shock to their manners.
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I agree 100% with JJ and Zero.
And, no, I am neither JJ nor Zero posting under another name.
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>> >> Mind you, it has to be said, the customer service skills of most TOC
>> staff
>> >> is abysmal bordering on the dismissive and rude.
>>
>> Generalisations, eh, don't you just love them!
I think Zero is entitled to express that opinion, which he/she says is based on experience. My opinion differs, but then again I am not him/her.
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>>reminded me of the ticket sellers on the Moscow Underground who seem oblivious to the fact that communism ceased to exist
Have you never got a taxi in Prague?
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Much of Prague life is still informed by the old routine - try the queues to get into the Castle !
We did think the Praguers polite, though - teenagers voluntarily giving up seats on the trams for 'grown ups', but strangely an american girl we met at my nephew's flat thought they were the rudest people she'd ever met - then again, she had an awful lot of rough edges herself
Last edited by: borasport on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 14:18
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Yes i agree the staff here is from all over the place and all countries and it does get a little confusing i don't have a clue what some are saying!! lol......................
On the wrong train front just so we understand one and other, i/we don't put every rude awkward, drunk, complete utter numpty on the wrong trains every day all of the time, BUT it does get on your nerves and eventually on evenings when they have had a skin full and very rude it has happened.!!
Just like if your in the street and somebody wants directions and there the same it's either sorry i don't know or send them in the wrong direction.
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>>Plastered all over the stations is posters telling customers were not putting up with rude or violent behaviour <<
In my experience wherever these sort of notices appear, the staff seem to take them as a licence to be rude to the customers.
Pat
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They put the signs up because they know the level of service is appalling.
They mean "Yeah we know, the level of service is so bad you want to hit some one, Tough we don't care"
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>> They put the signs up because they know the level of service is appalling.
>>
>> They mean "Yeah we know, the level of service is so bad you want to
>> hit some one, Tough we don't care"
Not just on public transport though; same in the banks, supermarkets etc etc. DUty of care thing; they hope that by puting up notices they've done enough if a memeber of staff suggests customer boundaries were not defined.
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They mean "Yeah we know, the level of service is so bad you want to hit some one, Tough we don't care
Your funny are you a stand up comic? lol................
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in my job i often get people pulling up in their cars engines running radio on shouting excuse me,excuse me,i ignore them as common itinerents or if they really carry on i go right up to their face tell them to turn their engines off and maybe i can help them
so rudeness is not just in the choo choo world its everywhere,from having doors let go as you try to catch the handle on a shop to someone walking past you and being sneezed on by them
i could go on but last time my blood pressure was checked my doctor said i was as normal as could be expected :-)
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I agree Bb. People are incredibly rude these days. A good percentage of people just walk straight at other people expecting them to step aside, or stand talking blocking the pavement (or supermarket aisle or whatever) when they are fully aware that others want to pass.
Why is this? I used to feel that the British, who were once polite and considerate, were being corrupted by foreigners who don't know how to queue or stay out of the way. Now though I have come to the conclusion that there's an epidemic of advanced mad cow disease. If you can bear to look at their ugly faces these people imitating cattle also seem often to be chewing some sort of cud, and they have the rolling, blank eyes of cattle on heat. Sometimes they moo as well. It's a bit worrying to tell the truth.
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Where's "JacksonJack" got to?
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I though that maybe JJ was really Zero, from the tone and general style of his post, but then Zero chipped in.
Or maybe Z has multiple personality issues... among others! :-)
Last edited by: ChrisPeugeot on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 15:34
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>> I though that maybe JJ was really Zero, from the tone and general style of
>> his post, but then Zero chipped in.
>>
>> Or maybe Z has multiple personality issues... among others! :-)
Wow, clearly not me that has paranoia issues, if you see reds (OK zero's) under every bed.
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...though that maybe JJ was really Zero...
Can't have been, the JJ's post was made in the early afternoon when Zero would have been having his nap.
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>> ...though that maybe JJ was really Zero...
>>
>> Can't have been, the JJ's post was made in the early afternoon when Zero would
>> have been having his nap. tea and biscuits.
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As a passenger guard I've found that the vast majority of the travelling public are fine, and on the whole pleasent...
However when you find a problem with their ticket such as out of date (or more commonly) no railcard, very cheap ticket and on the wrong train, no ticket at all an not wanting to pay or trying to put their 3 ton buggie in the wheelchair space then its no holes barred as far as they are concerned...
Some of you (such as Zero!) should try doing our job for a day and see how you would like the abuse we have to suffer and still stay polite... From your posts I'd say that you never had to deal with these sorts of people on a daily basis like we have to... maybe you have on the odd occassion... but now its several times a day you will suffer some sort of verbal or physical abuse, usually from those who are in the wrong...
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 17:17
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Maybe some of you guards should try paying through the nose for a crap service for a day. Maybe even paying full price for NO SEAT, and then have some jobsworth demanding your ticket.
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I will reply to this post politely, Zero, but any more and I'll use the Report button...
1. Our average is over 90% "on time" which is similar to most European countries, not ideal but bearing in mind the many different things which can cause delays (including passengers!) its not bad either.
2. You pay to be taken from A to B, NOT for a seat.
3. When we ask to see tickets and sometimes have to excess people we are not "jobsworths" we are just charging the passenger the correct fare for their journey... It is the passenger with the incorrect ticket who is at fault, so please lay the blame at their door, instead of trying to blame others.
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 17:26
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Use the report button my old fruit. I would expect a jobsworth to do that very thing.
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At the risk of being seen as a trainee Kofe Annan, isn't the real crux of all this that social interaction is generally in need of some repositioning when it comes to common courtesy ? It strikes me that there are offenders in these matters in most walks of life no matter where they appear on the service / served food chain.
There is little we as individuals can do other than to shock them by responding to their rudeness politely and maintaining whatever standards we personally find acceptable no matter what.
All rudeness is a form of bullying no matter where it emanates from and the best way to put down a bully is to show no reaction whatsoever to their tactic.
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Why is a train late? I have been asked this several times.
Lots of reasons & i'll list just a few.
Signals not working due to gypsies stealing the cable.
Passenger numbers at stations lots of elderly passengers & wheel chair passenger ramps have to be used and seated before the train departs.
Train failures.
Abusive customers & rioting (usually football trains).
All the above have a knock on effect of how trains run on time.
So it's not always the railways fault but some just find it easier to blame us before looking at the bigger picture, now and again step back and think before you open your mouth.!!
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Now you see, this is just typical of a public service, that has absolutely NO idea about service to the public.
All you railway guys are just showing your true colours.
Its all the passengers fault, yes I know, if they were not there life would be good for you.
Guys,we passengers provide your jobs and pay your wages
I have no doubt passengers can be rude, violent, abusive whatever. Does not alter the fact that in my experience as a fare paying passenger, a large proportion of the staff have poor customer service skills
As I said - chicken and egg, I dont know what comes first
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 17:44
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>> All you railway guys are just showing your true colours.
>>
Again, I agree 100% with Zero.
These two railway guys losing their cool on this forum shows that their employer has succeeded in "customer service" training with them just as much as the rest of their employees.
Oh yes, and the irony of Bigtee complaining about the English language skills of some of his customers is not lost on me.
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If fare structures were simplified then the wrong ticket problem would go away. If I get a return on a bus I can return at any time. But apparently not if I buy a train ticket then there is so much hassle in guessing which trains you're allowed on as some identical services allow one kind of ticket and others don't. Too complicated.
Not that I ever travel by train as it is ridiculously expensive for most journeys and the journey calculator picks rubbish routes anyway.
The only reason times have improved is because time tables have been lengthened to accommodate poor time keeping. Much easier to add on 10 minutes to the timetable than it is to make sure the trains are running properly in the first place.
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Since we are all squeaking and biting each other like rats in a maze, let me put in a word for both sides.
It doesn't always seem to occur to transport staff that they are there to serve the public, not put in authority over it. They aren't trained diplomats though, or waiters in a restaurant, and people should understand this when they don't seem as urbane as the passengers would like them to be.
Passengers should also understand that the guard or inspector may have a lot of work to get through and as well as only doing his or her job, is unlikely to have any control over the overall quality of the service. They are just cogs in the machine.
I don't expect urbanity from such people, so it's always a pleasure to meet an agreeable bus driver or chap inside the ticket office. If anything the nice ones are in a majority.
But quite recently at Euston Square tube station one of these rudely and quite incorrectly took and kept my London oldster's freedom pass thingy. Indeed the fellow, an Asian, was so obnoxious that I did what any old buffer would have done: bawled the F word at the top of my voice. But I didn't force my way into the ticket office and give him a kicking, although I keep wishing I had.
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" will reply to this post politely, Zero, but any more and I'll use the Report button..."
I know you may feel threatened by Zero but that remark sounds rather like a five year old who says "I'll tell teacher".
As far as I can see, Zero thinks train staff are rude and arrogant. He may or may not be correct but he has every right to say so - politely.
I suggest you read what the Telegraph says about rail services in general.
www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/8118424/Rail-travellers-pay-for-a-better-service-than-this.html
"Such contempt for customers would be severely punished in any other business"
Basically anyone working for a TOC is working for a bunch of wasters - says the DT.
Last edited by: madf on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 17:50
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Lots of people are rude, and lots of people are complaining about people being rude.
I think there must be an element of double counting.
There must be many who are normally polite, but are occasionally rude.
I can't recall an instance, but I suppose if I was having a bad day there will have been a time when someone in a service position will have received a sharp remark from me which they didn't deserve.
If anyone on here is genuinely always polite to everyone they meet, without fail, then I salute them.
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>>>If anyone on here is genuinely always polite to everyone they meet, without fail, then I salute them.
Salute accepted thanks... and one for Hump too as he says above...
**There is little we as individuals can do other than to shock them by responding to their rudeness politely and maintaining whatever standards we personally find acceptable no matter what**
Spot on Humph. I find it pretty effective to be extra friendly in the face of someone seeming somewhat rude... often it will soften them to raise their game.
If, however, (did I really need commas there?) you want to win every interaction/confrontation to be the bigger man then it all falls apart to the detriment of staff and customer alike.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 18:18
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>> I know you may feel threatened by Zero but that remark sounds rather like a
>> five year old who says "I'll tell teacher".
>>
>>
I do not feel threatened but nor should I take personal abuse for something where he has only met a very small percentage of rail staff and is accusing all of us as being the same.Surely the Report Button is for that purpose, a simple achknowledgemnt that it does not apply to most staff, but just some of those he has met would have been sufficient, but no, he has to tar all of us with the same brush.
>>
>> As far as I can see, Zero thinks train staff are rude and arrogant. He
>> may or may not be correct but he has every right to say so -
>> politely.
>>
I did not find his posts polite.
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 17:58
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Don't worry, Zero's wrong anyway - most train staff are polite.
(Of course that's only based on those I've encountered, but I'm not going to say that in case I sound like I'm making a valid point. Come back Mr X. Or perhaps he never went away? :)
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>> I did not find his posts polite.
Nor do I, but are they abusive, or just somewhat confrontational? I would say the latter. And people can read them and form their own opinion. I do not know him, but judging by his posts, he condones taking out anger at a poor rail service on the staff. That is definitely a no no. And it does not do any good either.
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>> latter. And people can read them and form their own opinion. I do not know
>> him, but judging by his posts, he condones taking out anger at a poor rail
>> service on the staff.
Nowhere did he imply or say that.
That is definitely a no no. And it does not do
>> any good either.
Your right, it doesn't
I don't see how standing up for passengers can be construed as "confrontational" or even wrong.
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>> I do not feel threatened but nor should I take personal abuse for something where
>> he has only met a very small percentage of rail staff and is accusing all
>> of us as being the same.
Nowhere did I accuse you of all being the same, nowhere did I accuse YOU of being a jobsworth (till you said you would press the button)
What percentage of staff do I need to meet to make an opinion? Like all ways of life you get tarred by the brush your co-workers use.
The comment I found really telling was
"you pay to get from A-B, you don't pay for a seat"
What more can I say, it sums it all up really. You wonder why people get upset when trot that one out?
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Basically anyone working for a TOC is working for a bunch of wasters - says the DT.
Bring back British Rail i say!!
Zero. lol..... It's not always the customers fault large passenger numbers does happen and nothing can be done, we lay on more trains or couple trains together (more seats for you) But what ever we do it's not good enough for some.
Zero, You entitled to moan all you like good for you, WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO?
Come on id love to hear how we can sort all your problems out???????
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>>
>> Bring back British Rail i say!!
>>
I take it that is a joke...
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Now that WAS appalling customer service.
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I take it that is a joke...
Not at all.
Rail companies are screwing cash out of the railways & not putting cash back in,It goes to there other companies they own to help them out, Not all are the same but many are spend the cash on trains buy newer stock or brand new.
Bring back British Rail this is what most staff want im one of them, See it from our side for once not yours.
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The idea that a TOC pay the government huge amounts of cash for a franchise is frankly ludicrous. A TOC should win a franchise based on quality of service and fares ONLY.
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"Bring back British Rail this is what most staff want im one of them"
Well of course they do. Its tough in the commercial world, so much easier working in the featherbedded world of a nationalised industry. Unfortunately for you and your colleagues but probably fortunately for the rest of us it ain't going to happen.
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>> >>
>> >> Bring back British Rail i say!!
>> >>
>>
>> I take it that is a joke...
Probably not. Back then there was one body responsible for both the track, and the rolling stock and services. So there was one timetable from one company, rather than multiple timetables from multiple companies, and goodness how many confusing ticket options.
Also, the franchises are for a set period of time, a few years I think.
So that means that some/all rail operators do not buy rolling stock. Instead they lease them for a few years. That turns out to be an expensive way to operate. It is much cheaper in the long run to buy, but if the franchise might end in a few years, why take the financial risk. Anyway, they probably can't raise the money, as who would lend to them.
Whilst I admire much of Thatcher's legacy, privatising BR was not one of them, in my humble opinion.
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>> Come on id love to hear how we can sort all your problems out???????
In truth BT, you or Hobby cant sort it out, you are too low in the TOC food chain.
Maybe a little understanding of life as a passenger might help.
The ticket office closed because the TOC cut staff, the machine refusing to take your pound coins, the cancelled train because not enough rostered staff, or track failures due to reduced maintenance, No warm waiting room because it was closed as there is no longer any staff on the station.
And when the train arrives its full to overflowing because the previous one was cancelled. And the guy with his armpit in your face stinks.
And then the "Guard" Sorry "Revenue Protection Agent" sneers at you and barks "ticket"
And dont even mention the NUR and Bob Crow.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 18:30
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Zero said "And dont even mention the NUR and Bob Crow."
I'd rather you didn't if you don't mind. He is a horrid man. He reminds me of the 70's and the militant unions that crippled the country in order to feather bed the lives of their members.
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Bob Crow top man im in the RMT..............
Unions are there for us and so they can stay.!!
Zero, Thanks so your retired now and you have nothing better to do but moan on here?
Try the gym go for a swim have a walk im sure you may find something there to moan about.
No the railways is not perfect & BR was not either what we need is you lot on here running it especially you Zero your my Hero.!! lol.............
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>> Bob Crow top man im in the RMT..............
>>
>> Unions are there for us and so they can stay.!!
>>
>> Zero, Thanks so your retired now and you have nothing better to do but moan
>> on here?
Actually Bigtee, you started it. You started the thread by moaning about passengers.
Oh and by the way, I travelled on the train yesterday to London. Us retired folk do that you know.
But hey, if you think Bob Crow is going to be good for you, then hey ho.
I think they said the same about that other working class hero, Arthur Scargill. Remember him? No I don't either, or his "members"
Anway mate, you may need another spade, I think the one you are using now must be getting worn out.
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Anway mate, you may need another spade, I think the one you are using now must be getting worn out. LOL...........
Yes your quite right but i have had a great afternoon at work with my mates writing these posts & some of you enjoyed yourselves on the last thread i enjoyed this one, I handed out the touch paper and you lit it..lol.........
Enough said. ...........
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>> Maybe some of you guards should try paying through the nose for a crap service
>> for a day. Maybe even paying full price for NO SEAT, and then have some
>> jobsworth demanding your ticket.
The staff are doing the job they are paid to do. Senior management are responsible for ensuring there are enough carriages, and services to meet demand. So there is no excuse for you or anyone else taking it out on the staff. You can always write and complain, not that it would do any good. I hate the trains. Good on a good day, but they can be really unpleasant, such as waiting for a temporary bus service at Guildford station, with no waiting room, and all of the doors to the main lobby wide open, on a freezing cold day. That said, staff were polite, and friendly.
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>> Where's "JacksonJack" got to?
>>
He's under one of BigTee's trains.
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>> My partners dad said that never, ever again would he be a bus driver.
>>
I've often said I'd sooner carry cattle.
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>> >> My partners dad said that never, ever again would he be a bus driver.
>> >>
>>
>>
>> I've often said I'd sooner carry cattle.
You need to get a job on the Railway then HM
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>> You need to get a job on the Railway then HM
>>
I did dabble in it, but only as a volunteer on preserved steam. Having viewed this thread, my sympathies are firmly with those who have to put up with customer rudeness on a day-to-day basis. It's small wonder that they're tempted to bite back on occasion.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 22:34
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Yup sometimes the cattle crap on the herdsman - its a fact of life.
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>> Yup sometimes the cattle crap on the herdsman - its a fact of life.
>>
The cattle don't know any better.
I strongly suspect that it's a townie thing, this being rude. One thing I have noticed down here in rural Wales is that passengers on the local buses still tend to thank the driver on disembarking.
I have found through a much-travelled life that the bigger and more densely-packed the community, the less manners they tend to have and the worse they seem to treat people whom they deem to be beneath them.
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Agree with you both -My encounters with customer service today in Llanberis (Haircut £6.00 thank you) and Bangor DVLA and Tesco were routine and pleasant and certainly not punctuated with any bad manners, same in North Yorkshire last weekend - unfailingly pleasant. Cardiff at the weekend for the rugby international - lets see how that goes.
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I use the railways a lot, Virgin and London Midland between the Midlands and London mainly. I have to say I find the staff at the stations and on the trains to be almost universally pleasant and easy to deal with. Admittedly the trains are not normally that crowded as I normally manage to avoid peak times (today was an exception). The ticketing system is ludicrously complex, but that's hardly the staff's fault and they are pretty good at pointing out cheaper options where there are some.
I'm surprised how touchy our TOC friends on here are. I think Zero's experience doesn't mirror mine, but I certainly didn't think that anything he said deserved reporting. And the argument that we pay for the transport not a seat does, at the very least, seems rather def to the reality of the passenger's not unreasonable expectations.
Still, takes all sorts.
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>> So is this just us that get these morons or does this happen everywhere else
>> are we just too busy in our little bubble to say a simple thank you?
Sorry to hear about that. I find most rail staff very friendly. I can say the same about most public services, such as the post office, it seems to be characteristic of this country. But I think you are right about rudeness. Some people are stressed out travelling on public transport that can be dirty, or delayed, or overcrowded, and they wrongly take it out on the staff. Some people are plain rude. Some people will be not directly rude, but perhaps unintentionally rude due to stress.
Someone mentioned young Anglo Asians as being rude. That surprises me, as Asian families (such as Chinese and Indian) are known to be quite strict, and Anglo Asian colleagues are very 'traditional' in their attitudes.
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It's a change to see this and not be involved:)
I do sympathise with you both as it's quite often I'm in the position you're both in at the moment.
I will be accused of being as bad as the worst lorry driver anyone has ever met....I also got tarred with being lazy, owning a plasma TV and living on benefits because I don't happen to be rich:)
Having said that I would like to make the point that although the problems with the trains may be not be caused by you, or within your remit to remedy, you are the Companies representative while you are at work.
You wear the uniform and sadly, are the only representative of the company that the passengers have access to. Part of your wages reflect that position.
As a company representative coming in contact with the public, I expect to have to bite my tongue a lot and take some flak, reply with gritted teeth and a smile, and think of next years pay rise.
Maybe you both should consider doing the same?
Pat
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Yes pat we do.
It's fine many times of the day we get on with it and do our individual jobs well and take flack, but how far do we have to go?
You may only see a small amount it's happening EVERY DAY, Some staff get asulted verbally usually & some phisical abuse from punches to spitting.
It affects some staff too much and many have left and others on the sick with stress, it's over the top of my head i ignore them walk off got jobs to do, Yes this can make it worse but i have a job to do and im getting on with it.
Customer service is not my strong point as you can read there is teams to deal with it i send them over there to complain.
To ask again to everybody What do you want from the railways in the uk?????
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Acknowledging Hobby's complaint - Can we keep it general please - It's right that hobby and Bigtee are as defensive of their professions as everyone else on this site are (me included) but let's keep a sense of proportion please and make sure when criticisms are made cannot be seen as personal in accordance with the site's policies - please.
Edit: Pat's post wasn't there when I started writing this and she sums it up perfectly in her first few lines, far better than I have.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 18:40
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....please and make sure when criticisms are made cannot be seen as personal in accordance with the site's policies - please...
Fancy a job in railway customer service?
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Not really after just having seen the News - and that is probably the acid test - how many of us would do each other's jobs ?
Last edited by: Pugugly on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 18:44
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Zero What do you do for work?
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Me? I am now retired.
I worked in IT, as a Service Manager. The guy who was always taking the calls from irate customers because my overpriced service didn't deliver and why couldn't I get their server back on line, No I don't care its an external BT issue, just get it fixed.
Sound familiar?
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Bigtee>>The younger 16-30 god these end up on the wrong trains on purpose so very rude some of them!!
Avant>>OTOH if any member of my family was deliberately put on the wrong train I'd be
>>looking to identify the staff member concerned with a view to ensuring at best, a hats off >>no tea, interview with their manager.
Bigtee>>Ooops i must have misheard you the noise in this station with the announcements
>>and noisey trains i thought you said................... Vey sorry sir my mistake.!!
Is there any need for me to make any comment about the standard of customer service on the railways from our resident TOC employee as he has summed up his attitude to the people who pay his wages so neatly?
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I would not work for a TOC:
Nor any of the power companies.
Why? Cos they are effectively controlled by OFF something - usually a bunch of incompetents trying to understand what the management are doing..
And failing --- my analogy would be the people supposed to keep hospitals up to standard and awarding Stafford Hospital Foundation Status (or whatever) - whilst they effectively killed 1200 people..
Any business regulated by civil servants starts at an immediate disadvantage-- see the Post Office..as a horrible example ..of how to ruin a good business over 50 years...
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....and madf I can see how front line staff suffer from "customer fatigue" as well.
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Thanks folks, you have confirmed why I always use my car in preference to the railways. With staff and passengers like you lot I intend to keep it that way.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 19:49
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No wonder there are so many cars.
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I sitback and watch the spats develop and smile sadly.
Ignorance and rudeness are everywhere, it goes hand in hand with a doomed country..ever watched one of those idiotic US science fiction films where chaos reigns just before Armageddon, i expect it to get much worse over the coming years not helped by ever fewer role models as generations are replaced.
Why do we need to 'get one over' on the other chap (applies to all sexes) by being rude ignorant or indifferent, whats wrong with being polite and respectful, pleasant exchanges leave us feeling better without fail.
As a couple of posters have mentioned above i treat everyone i meet with courtesy and respect, if they are unable to reciprocate due to some deficiency then it's their loss, i don't change my behaviour because they are incapable of normal pleasantries.
If people who should know better are no longer capable of behaving decently towards others even if they know not how to respond then we are truly lost.
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Not been on a train for 30yrs myself but thought I'd ask Mrs F who travels for business. Didn't tell her why but walked into the sitting room and asked... How do you get on with rail staff?
Exact answer was... They take a lot of flack from unpleasant customers but I have no problem with them. If you treat them politely as your or I would they are helpful and polite themselves.
Says it all really.
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Thanks to Pat, GB and Fenlander.
BT get a grip and break the mould. Reap what you sow.
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>> Exact answer was... They take a lot of flack from unpleasant customers but I have
>> no problem with them. If you treat them politely as your or I would they
>> are helpful and polite themselves.
>>
Topsy turvy world. I say " Customers take a lot of flack from unpleasant employees but I have no problem with them. If you treat your customers politely, they will be helpful and polite themselves. "
The Railway is still effectively a monopoly. The employers, unions, and employees know it, and treat the customers as if the customers owe them all a living. We are supposed to be grateful that they are there to dish out their sullen disservice to us the ungrateful undeserving masses.
Pugugly says not to make it personal. So make of this quote what you will.
Bigtee at 19.47 above www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=3531&m=72306&v=e said
"Anway mate, you may need another spade, I think the one you are using now must be getting worn out. LOL...........
Yes your quite right but i have had a great afternoon at work with my mates writing these posts & some of you enjoyed yourselves on the last thread i enjoyed this one, I handed out the touch paper and you lit it..lol.........
Enough said. ..........."
Yes, enough said.
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"Avant>>OTOH if any member of my family was deliberately put on the wrong train I'd be looking to identify the staff member concerned with a view to ensuring at best, a hats off >>no tea, interview with their manager."
Eh? I haven't said anything up to now on this thread - at least not consciously....
But I will just say this:
Rudeness begets rudeness - and sadly most of it starts with customers.
But customers are sorely tried by the unreliability of the service. Trains are complex piece of equipment but - at least in my experience on FGW - seldom break down - whereas we are constantly delayed by 'signal failure' (appropriate expression, that) caused by Network Rail's poor maintenance.
The real problem is the ridiculous overcrowding, certainly on commuter trains into London. Emoployers need to be much more imaginative: there are far too many unnecessary meetings which could be replaced by E-mails or conference calls, and far too many jobs are based in London which don't need to be.
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Avant, the comment about directing pax to the wrong train was mine. By way of explanation.
Not sure I've ever got on the wrong one but I have overshot my stop (though never when sober!!). Even in middle age being thirty miles from where you want to be, on the wrong side of the last train and with little cash is quite alarming.
My son (16) can get mouthy when he's tired etc. Doesn't drink; testosterone is enough. The idea that rail staff think it right to misdirect him in petty retaliation undermines what would otherwise be a confident assertion that he can safely travel anywhere by train.
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I think I've related this story on here before but the moral of it won't go amiss.
I arrived at a small firm in Peterborough one morning on the dot of 6.50 to be ready to tip at 7am as requested. I had driven for four hours prior to that to get there.
At 7.30am the firm was still locked up and no-one around.
At 9.15 the owner rolled up in his car and I jumped out of the lorry with a cheery 'Morning' and a smile.
He didn't as much as answer me, and the red mist came down, straw and camels back?
'If I can get up at 2 am to get here on time, can't you even manage to say Good Morning? I asked.
'I'm so sorry, I've been at the hospital all night and my Father died at 6am this morning'.
Can you imagine how I felt...insensitive, embarrassed and ashamed of myself.
But I wasn't feeling as bad as he was, I just wasn't aware of what was going on in HIS life, and only thinking of mine.
I learned a big lesson that day.
Pat
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Your story makes a good point Pat. I've never worked in customer service as in sitting behind a desk with people grumbling at me all day but several jobs have involved doing work/things for customers where my hope to be always polite has been well tested.
I soon realised people's seemingly unreasonable rudeness and anger was so often triggered by a previous event rather than the specific problem you were trying to help them with. If you dealt with them properly they'd often say sorry I was rude but today/yesterday this or that happened and I'm still stressed/upset over it.
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I took some time out after last night... and agree with a lot of posts that have been posted since... For the record I would never mis-direct someone deliberately, like many others i treat people as I would want to be treated, and that is just unacceptable in my view.
Zero, before working on the railways i did travel often and far on them, one reason for joining them when I was made redundant was to try and give a better service than i received before, I have found that even middle management can't influence the company to do things differently, in fact the company can't even try to improve things because they are far too controlled by the DfT and due to the short franchises they aren't willing to invest extra money as they'll never get a return within the timescales... I know that several companies are now trying to renegotiate for longer terms on the basis of more investment... Its noticeable that the one with the longest franchise, Chiltern, is also the one which runs one of the best services!
As regards Mr Crow, I'm with the others regarding him, BT, I can't stand the guy, hence I'm not in his union, even though the local reps are very good... And I don't want BR back either, despite our shortcomings I still feel that we give a better service, certainly on the routes I cover, than BR ever did... What we need is for the TOCs to have longer franchises and more control on how they run the services... The problem we have at the moment is that the DfT tell us what service to run and with what stock and for how much, if we really were "privatized" we would be left to our own devices with just a "body" there to check we weren't doing anything we shouldn't do... Whether that amount of freedom would be acceptable to the public is another matter, however...
One final point, from my experience on the trains I've found that the only people who have ever called me a "jobsworth" are those that are on the fiddle in some way (no ticket, etc)... I hope thats no reflection of those who use the phrase on here about others! ;-)
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Hobby
It may surprise you to find out I come from a railway background. My father was a train driver, on the LNER. As a kid I barely saw him, too many earlies, lates and rest day working. As a kid everything revolved around the railway, friends, work social.
Now this is true, you may not like this or recognise it but this happened on Monday. yes Monday this week.
I decided to meet a friend at the Imperial War Museum.
I rock up to get the first train outside peak hours, cheap day return. The ticket office is closed (why i know not) the ticket machine outside is throwing a complete wobbler and wont take my card, wont take coins. The train I wanted to catch was cancelled - no reason given. So its a wet cold miserable wait on an inhospitable outer suburban station with little cover. The next train arrives crowded, - no seat. I stand. The revenue protection agent comes through the train.
"Sorry mate" says I. "couldn't get a ticket at flyspot on the wold" and I hand him my card. His eyes light up because I have no ticket. Refuses to believe I couldn't get one at my departure station, and wants to charge me full fare telling me I committed a criminal offence, in a very load voice designed to embarrass me in front of the other passengers.
I didn't hit him, or spit at him, or kick him in the nuts or swear at him. He then charged me full fare and swept on to the next passengers.
Funnily enough, another passenger at the same stop had the same problem. Again loudly he berates the passenger.
I was inches from throwing the miserable stinking excuse for a human being through the train window.
I am sure you are not at all like that. And to be fair, most of my other railway journeys are not like that. But please, before you accuse us of "generalisations" remember that a large percentage of us are railway travellers and customers. It would be nice to be treated like a customer not an annoyance or potential criminal. I know the public can be miserable scum at times, but just bear in mind we are not all like that, and some of us have had a rather annoying morning due to the poor nature of the service we have been served.
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>> But please, before you accuse us
>> of "generalisations"
Ok, but please remember that one trip, or even several, where you were confronted by some mini hitler does not make every member of rail staff the same... I accept that you have had bad journeys, just as I have had bad passengers, but I would never consider taring all passengers with the same brush like you did with us staff... Do you understand where I'm coming from?
I could give you some scare stories as well involving passengers from hell, but I can't see the point as the vast majority are lovely, just as the vast majority of trains are on time... Sometimes its better to try and look on the bright side rather than continually depress yourself by looking for the worst in people! :-)
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The revenue protection man's attitude is not right, but it is understandable.
If the last half-a-dozen people you've spoken to have tried to lie, cheat and deceive you, it's very difficult to recognise nice honest straightforward Mr Zero when he pops up.
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>> The revenue protection
RPI's... I couldn't do their job! Whilst i have to check tickets and issue the odd unpaid fares notice (very rarely), most of the time i can have a laugh and a joke with people... They have to head for the trains that we know have the most fare dodgers and other fiddlers on board... all they deal with is confrontation every day... no, not my scene at all... Luckily on the majority of trains we have they are not needed, thank goodness...
Zero, you mentioned your Dad worked on the LNER, may I ask what depot?
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Stratford & Temple Mills.
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Never heard of Temple Mills before and had to look it up! Seems its now the depot for the Eurostars! Quite appropriate considering Gresley's streamliners!!
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I am sure you are not at all like that. And to be fair, most of my other railway journeys are not like that. But please, before you accuse us of "generalisations" remember that a large percentage of us are railway travellers and customers. It would be nice to be treated like a customer not an annoyance or potential criminal. I know the public can be miserable scum at times, but just bear in mind we are not all like that, and some of us have had a rather annoying morning due to the poor nature of the service we have been served.
Agree with the above "most" are good and many a laugh can be had with many.
I thought you knew something about the railways Zero, i understand now your posts with a little anger my son does not see me as much due to 12hr nights, 12hr days, weekend working, public holidays, new years day is a normal day for us crap it is but hey ho it's life we get on with it, Boxing day night have to work that too.!
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BT
My old man was often rostered to work Christmas day. They used to run trains on that day.
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Zero. It's our only day off.
Can i ask did you resent not seeing your dad due to his unsociable hours?
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Resent it? no not at all. As a kid he just never figured really, we never had a father son relationship as he wasnt there. I used to hate the night shifts tho, having to be quiet around the house while he slept & School holidays were a nightmare.
He left after 30 years on the railways but as he started young (14 as a boiler cleaner, fireman at 18, driver at 21) we had plenty of time to bond and enjoy pints out and stuff.
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God it's the same here.!!
Fair enough thanks for that Zero.
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Boarded usual train this morning. Usual seat; sat down to focus on coffee & Guardian.
Hadn't even noticed we were running slow when guard came on to apologise. Explained clearly that there was a fault with one of the units & that we'd go into the platform at Milton Keynes to await attention.
Immediately on arrival another clear concise announcement that next train was right behind but it would be crowded. Various alternatives offered to suit those with either all routes or TOC specific tickets.
Can grumble about being late but not about how the thing was handled.
Well done London Midland!!
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...Boarded usual train this morning. Usual seat; sat down to focus on coffee & Guardian...
I take it the Bromp goes with you.
Does it get in the way, or can you stash it somewhere?
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>> Does it get in the way, or can you stash it somewhere?
Depends on the train, there are two subclasses on my route, and where I'm sitting.
On a 350/1 the usual place is in coach B and it goes between the seat backs. Although the 350/2 has far more back to back seats they're more upright and closer together so not enough space. It then has to travel in the vestibule.
On a Boris bike today tho' as going drinkies after work!!
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....On a Boris bike today tho' as going drinkies after work!!...
Euston to Chancery Lane somewhere isn't it?
I suppose you could walk it, particularly as you must be quite fit thanks to the regular cycling.
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Great things, folding bikes!! A lot of people don't realise just how much room a full sized bike takes up... I reckon about the same space as three people... Those folders just take up the same space as a piece of luggage... stick it between the seats, B?
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Fullsize bikes now banned on many SWT routes during peak hours.
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>> bikes now banned on many SWT routes during peak hours.
If only that applied to the roads as well.
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...bikes now banned on many SWT routes during peak hours...If only that applied to the roads as well...
And lorries, and motorbikes, and horses....
And to everyone else except me.
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>> stick it between the seats, B?
Hobby,
As above that's the preferred position but in some rolling stock the gap is a tad too narrow.
Full size bikes are banned on LM in peak flow and have been since BR days. Last trains that would carry them, i.e. with parcels/luggage compartment, were the 310's, superceded by 317's in 1987.
IIRC the south of the river operators, who reatined slam doord/brake vans longer, carried them into the late ninties.
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If the folding bike was one of the better inventions, the luggage with wheels was one of the worst... Its not so much the actual case which is the problem, in theory its a good idea... The problem we have is that people carry more than they need, get the biggest one they can find and consequently can't even lift the things, let alone fit them in the luggage spaces...
Its fascinating looking at pictures of the British going on holiday in the 50s, all with their little cardboard suitcase... Why do people have to take their wardrobe with them these days?
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>> Hadn't even noticed we were running slow when guard came on to apologise. Explained clearly that there was a fault with one of the units & that we'd go into the platform at Milton Keynes to await attention.
Ah, so it was your train that was holding me up this morning
:o)
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The Matt cartoon on the front page of today's Telegraph. Very apposite.
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If you want to experience really bad customer service and indifference, try any of the major supermarkets here in Andalusia.
The checkout staff are simply awful - half the time they are chatting to a friend when they are supposed to be serving you.
Extra tills are hardly ever opened, however large the queues.
Today in a branch of Carrefour - French owned- the young woman on our checkout was so busy yacking to a mate (not staff, for a change) that (a) we had to wait before she condescended to start scanning our purchases and (b) she kept talking all the while our items were being checked and did not once look at us until she muttered the amount of the bill.
This is normal here!
We always are polite and greet the staff on the tills first, as most will not even acknowledge your presence unless you make the overture.
Customer service, with the sole exception of El Corte Ingles - a large department store group - head-quartered in Madrid, is utterly lacking.
Worst, by far are the utility and telephone companies who think that their employers exist just to provide employment and that customers are, actually, a sanguinary nuisance.
Last edited by: landsker on Wed 10 Nov 10 at 14:43
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...that customers are, actually, a sanguinary nuisance...
A prison officer once told me: "The jail would be a great place to work if it wasn't for the prisoners."
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I used to work in a county court.
It would have functioned much more smoothly without litigants and witnesses!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 10 Nov 10 at 17:27
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Recent true story.
We were comfortably seated on a crowded Leeds- Kings X when a scruffy young lad started giving me, and SWMBO, the verbals about being in 'his' seat. On the loud side of 'gobby' to be precise.
Sure enough I was in his seat. My desk diary was open, so i studied the week by page, asked him to confirm the date on his ticket, and quietly pointed out that he should have been sat in 'my' seat yesterday.
Priceless.
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I assume you got a heartfelt and unreserved apology ?
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I sometimes feel I stray too far the other way though. Coming home last night, I had a reservation, but a lady in her forties was already sitting in my seat, so rather than cause a fuss, I had enough charge left in my laptop to just take an airline style seat opposite rather than my booked table.
Not sure why I felt unable to ask her to move, to do so just doesn't seem right somehow.
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You'd be surprised just how much of a problem it is when people don't take their booked seat, SO! What very often happens on a busy train is that at the next station someone else then ends up with their seat occupied... and, like Topsy, the problem grows... Until you get the Family Group of six who then cause a massive edition of musical chairs!
You are not alone with your reaction, though, many people don't feel comfortable in asking others to move, if you don't then feel free to ask the Guard, its our job to help sort things out... That earlier story is one reason why(!), but abuse from the passenger sitting there is usually the main one...
Rather links with the earlier myth about a ticket entitling you to a seat... Much as we'd love that to be the case, it isn't, since the beginning of railways there have always been trains where there are more passengers than seats, usually rush hours and Friday afternoons, unfortunately its not possible to just add a coach on the back, apart from the fact that on most modern trains you can't do that, there just aren't spare coaches out there, they are all in use! Personally I'd rather us have the same restrictions as airlines and Eurostar on our long distance trains, but being realistic it just couldn't work as there would be a lot of people doing short hops that would be very peeved about losing their "fast" train!!
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Hobby,
You mean airline style with allocated seats and no seat no travel?
Turn up & go is the railway's USP; never give it away.
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Yes, B, thats what I mean... but I didn't mean every train just long distance expresses... Its daft that we can have trains where for short periods of a long distance journey they are packed to the rafters by short distance commuters... A different method would be to have less stops... but the current system favours more stops as it rewards the TOCs for stopping at more stations... hence we have people travelling very short distances on trains that go from one end of the country to the other... and the consequent overcrowding when the TOCs try (without success) to balance seating to luggage space...
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>>Yes, B, thats what I mean... but I didn't mean every train just long distance expresses
I can see the problem. For a while Virgin carried Milton Keynes commuters who promptly abandoned the Silverlink services to save 5 minutes and get better seats. Big fuss with MP's etc involved when it was made clear this traffic would no longer be catered for.
The method used was a mix of changes in calling patterns and pick up or set down only restrictions. The latter only work when the previous or next stop is the service terminus. Changed calling patterns inevitably create vocal user objections. They can, in some cases, seriously affect peoples lives making travel to work impossible.
But if I buy an open ticket I expect to be able to travel when my meeting ends and without having to miss a train while I faff about getting my reservation changed. That is the trump card rail holds over air.
I don't know the answer though; boarding a train from Oxford to Bournemouth and having to stand as far as Didcot is no joke either
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A daft example are the Scotland to South West services, they stop at loads of stations between Newcastle and Birmingham taking a lot of local journeys, while the lighter loaded Newcastle to Reading services only have limited stops... No logic at all.
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Rude passengers, No need for it. - Netsur
