Non-motoring > Feral child rant Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Leif Replies: 65

 Feral child rant - Leif
I thought I'd have a rant.

For over a year I've had trouble with a group of local children. They come at night and ring the doorbell, then hammer on windows, I've had maggots under the door during the day, and they hatch into flies filling the house, I've had insulting notices glued to the door, and to the back of the car, one shouts abuse when I drive past, and so on. I've tried chasing them, with a torch, but when I've found them, there's nothing I can do. They know they are untouchable. The police can't do anything without names and/or addreses.

So, just over a week ago I tried to photograph one of them, in broad daylight, in a public place, taking care not to act like a 'kiddy fiddler'. I had the sister of one shouting threats at me "you ****ing pervert, I'll ****ing punch you if you don't give me that camera". I had the brother of the same brat drive into me a few times (not serious) then restrain me by the wrist, After 5 minutes struggling, he placed his free arm around my neck for 5 minutes. Eventually I struggled free, taking care not to use any abusive or threatening language ("let me go" was all I said) and not using any physical violence. Well, they called the police to charge me with photographing a child. One child who has in the past harassed me cycles up to me and says "You were photographing a child, she's fifteen, the police are coming." Except it's not a crime. The police civilian worker, and a local copper confirmed I was acting reasonably, and legally, and they understood the reasons. The person who assaulted me broke my £200 watch, and I have a bruised wrist and neck. But the police will not charge him, or even his sister for threatening to punch me (which is assault). They say the courts will let them off for doing no more than thinking they were protecting their sister. Despite the fact that I explained clearly what I was doing and why. And a passing teacher said what I was doing was wrong. When I asked what I should do she said "contact the authorities". I had done so numerous times. So she then said "but they're only children" and told the children to call the police, and that is when I was assaulted. She saw me being assaulted and cared not a whit for my well being. She undoubtedly saw one person threatening to punch me. She'd not seen me be abusive (I wasn't) or use violence (I didn't). I despair of these bleeding heart liberals who I thought only existed in the media parodies.

In my view the police have been pretty good, supportive, and friendly. They are incredibly busy attending to often trivial calls, and they must act within the law. But the laws are absurd. In this case the police now know who the kids are, and they have been to their homes to caution them about their behaviour. With luck they will learn to behave, and not harass local people.

The day after my boss at work was abused by kids, and his car damaged. They just walked up to him and said "You can't ****ing touch me mate". On one occasion he grabbed the coat of a child who was kicking his house door. The police warned him he could have been charged with assault.

It's a crazy world. Most kids are well behaved, but the small minority of feral kids exploit laws which protect the aggressors not the victims.
 Feral child rant - Old Navy
You need a dark night, a big stick, and no witnesses.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 8 Nov 10 at 21:46
 Feral child rant - John H

>> In my view the police have been pretty good, supportive, and friendly. They are incredibly
>> busy attending to often trivial calls, and they must act within the law. But the
>> laws are absurd.
>>

To be get a criminal record, you need to do serious crime - how about trimming neighbour's honeysuckle and not returning the clippings?
www.walletpop.co.uk/2010/11/08/when-neighhbour-disputes-get-nasty/

 Feral child rant - Leif
>> To be get a criminal record, you need to do serious crime - how about
>> trimming neighbour's honeysuckle and not returning the clippings?

If they had trimmed overhanging maize plants, would that make them a cereal offender? >>
 Feral child rant - MD
All I can say Leif is that you must have the patience of a Saint. By now I would be doing time.
 Feral child rant - Leif
>> All I can say Leif is that you must have the patience of a Saint.
>> By now I would be doing time.

I can understand that. I've learnt to keep calm as the police have to act on the basis of the evidence, unless they were present of course. Staying calm is the best way to think. Not always easy to stay calm when a child is running at you with a clenched fist making as if to punch you. And that was a girl! Hi ho.

I have to admit 'the dark night and a long stick' approach is tempting, but these days you really do have to be careful you don't end up having your collar felt. These kids know exactly how to play the game.
Last edited by: Leif on Mon 8 Nov 10 at 23:03
 Feral child rant - Avant
That teacher is a disgrace to her profession. If you know she's a teacher maybe you know which school she's at and could put in a complaint to the headteacher.
 Feral child rant - MD
Duty of care and all that
 Feral child rant - PhilW
"That teacher is a disgrace to her profession"
Exactly - and most "old fashioned" teachers would know how to take care of situation. Unfortunately I fear that is not the case these days and complaint to Headteacher would have little effect.
One of the reasons I and my wife got out (of teaching) a little early.
Phil
 Feral child rant - Leif
>> That teacher is a disgrace to her profession. If you know she's a teacher maybe
>> you know which school she's at and could put in a complaint to the headteacher.

That is my view. Then again, I remember when I was at school, a 'leftie' teacher saw me in the wood work shop, making a table for my mum, and I think she took against the antique style, and started calling me a "****ing middle class [child of unmarried parents]". The irony is my mum was stuggling to make ends meet.
 Feral child rant - MD
There are three types of people in this world, Men, Women and school teachers as told to me by a very wise Old (ish) Devon Lady.
 Feral child rant - John H
>> There are three types of people in this world, Men, Women and school teachers as
>> told to me by a very wise Old (ish) Devon Lady.
>>

What do you think teachers at this school should do? (Report in today's DM):
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327876/13-year-old-pupil-swung-fist-yelled-Im-gonna-break-jaw-says-teacher.html

 Feral child rant - FotheringtonTomas
1) Find out where they live.
 Feral child rant - Ted

I think some scrote's arm round my neck would have been the last straw.
Self defence ?
If it was me, he'd have a very broken nose and sore genitals.
I'd take my chances with a jury.

As for the poor guy with a record over the theft of clippings, I might have got that to the Crown Court.
But then, I'm retired and I've nothing better to do.

Appalling behaviour from these kids....they need an old- time copper amongst them...shame it can't happen any more.

Ted
 Feral child rant - L'escargot
The only solution may be to move to a better area.
 Feral child rant - Zero
This all seem a little random, and little one dimensional.

what kicked all this "trouble with kids" off in the first place?
 Feral child rant - Dog
>>what kicked all this "trouble with kids" off in the first place?<<

As someone who has terrorised a few neighbs in the past, I was pondering the same Q,
as in ~ No smoke etc., etc., etc.
 Feral child rant - hobby
From past experience he probably just asked them to be quiet one night...

I'm afraid the "no smoke" thing doesn't apply these days, the kids know that they can get away with it regardless of what they do, and in many cases the parents don't give a toss either, which just compounds things... I was lucky in that an off duty copper came along, took them directly to their parents just round the corner and luckily the parents were responsible enough to give them a right telling off... peace returned... but as I said, I was lucky...

You have my sympathy, Leif.
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 09:58
 Feral child rant - Bellboy
yes hobby quite correct
the only answer is to move,seriously
 Feral child rant - Iffy
...From past experience he probably just asked them to be quiet one night...

Agreed, once a connection of any sort is made there can be bother.

Children hang around the back lane which is the vehicle entrance to Iffy Towers at school kicking out time.

I'm not often around then, but I avoid driving the car in or out if possible.

A couple of times I have done it, one or two of the children have been reluctant to move to give me access.

I shouldn't have to compromise in this way, but it's a small price to pay for a quiet life.

One medium-term hope for the OP is that childrens' habits change as they get older.

The children who are hanging around outside his house now might be going to pubs in year or two's time.

On a lighter note, there were some children playing the river which runs past the lounge window of the caravan.

Harmless enough, but they were making a bit of a racket.

An adult appeared, so quite pleasantly I say: "It's none of my business, but there are a lot of rats up and down the riverbank.
"It would be wise to make sure the children have a good wash when you get them back to your caravan."

It worked - I never saw them again.



 Feral child rant - Fursty Ferret
CCTV might be your solution here.
 Feral child rant - Dog
When we lived up 'on the moor' and ad sum land, we supplied water to a trough in a Farmers field,
folk said "you'll never get the money out of him Dog",
I told him I was a Paranoid Schizophrenic ... he never failed to cough up,
I like using Psycho-ology on peops (if req.) and wouldn't hesitate to use the same with those kyds.
 Feral child rant - Zero
But doing this

"So, just over a week ago I tried to photograph one of them, in broad daylight, in a public place, taking care not to act like a 'kiddy fiddler!


Was utter utter stupidity. What on earth did you think you were doing, or hoping to achieve?
 Feral child rant - TheManWithNoName
Clearly Zero, he was doing what he thought was best, taking a photo of the scrote so that he had evidence of the culprit.

Obviously it back fired but I think I would have done the same under what must be stressful circumstances.

Besides, in the context of where and why the photo was taken, I don't suppose for one minute any reasonable human being would have accused him of being a pervert.

Leif - I suggest you keep a detailed diary of events, dates, times descriptions of those involved and if need be buy one of those micro DV camera's that you can clip to a jacket, then you'll have both video and audio evidence should anything go further.
 Feral child rant - Zero
Evidence of what? He was merely photographing a minor (possibly) in a public place?

What does that prove? Apart from the fact he made himself look like a perv. I could have predicted the situation he found himself in.

 Feral child rant - Armel Coussine
Time was when art photographers used to go about photographing anything or anyone they thought would make a good picture, and no one gave it a second thought. Unfortunately the British in particular, with their disgusting tabloid media and tiny, filthy little minds, now have an obsession with the (mercifully rare) perversion of paedophilia. I have some jolly nude photos I took of my middle daughter, aged three or four at most, posturing jollily in her bath. They were developed and printed in the normal way. A few years later though they might have caused trouble if the wrong sort of idiot was working for the photographic company.

Drinking at an outdoor cafe in a largely Muslim black African country in the very early 1980s, I took a couple of shots of a charming little street urchin who was playing about nearby, a kid of about 10. Immediately an 18-year-old secret policeman in robe and hat bustled up and asked why I was photographing the nipper. 'C'est pas normal,' he kept saying with a suspicious frown. The little twerp wouldn't go away until I showed him my Autorisation de filmer, duly signed and stamped by the minister of information and chief of police. He looked very disappointed, but it gave my drinking companion, the UNHCR representative and quite a rip for a Somali lawyer, a good laugh.

Anyway, I recount that to underline that it isn't just us and it isn't all that recent either. But it is an amazing and moronic pain in the fundament. Anyone in their right mind can tell the difference between innocence and the other thing. It shouldn't be the issue it is.
 Feral child rant - FotheringtonTomas
>> Besides, in the context of where and why the photo was taken, I don't suppose
>> for one minute any reasonable human being would have accused him of being a pervert.

People will, to:
a) Deliberately, to make him stop so they can get on with their bad behaviour;
b) Because they've absolutely no idea;
c) Because they're scared that there is somehow an issue with taking photographs.

There is no issue whatsoever with photographing anyone, in a public place, in any reasonable circumstances
 Feral child rant - madf
"There is no issue whatsoever with photographing anyone, in a public place, in any reasonable circumstances "

Try photographing children at a school at sports day..

I'm sorry: but paranoia is widespread..
 Feral child rant - Perky Penguin
It is rarely, if ever, against the law to take a photograph in a public place but it is often very unwise. Last year parents were forbidden, by a school head, from taking photos of their own children in a nativity play. However, they were given the opportunity to buy a DVD of the event @ £15, from a professional fim-maker. In the big scheme of things who is more likely to post pictures of these children on the internet? Their parents or somene who makes money/a living from photographing children?
 Feral child rant - Falkirk Bairn
A good quality CCTV camera - they will run out of luck before you run out of patience catching them "in the act of vandalism or whatever!"

40 years ago I worked in a shop - we knew the shoplifter would get caught one day long before we ran out of stock!
Mind you we lost the equivalent of a new Jaguar every month in stock loss in 1 large store - stock loss was shoplifting, short deliveries and staff pilfering - ringing up £17 of goods, taking a fiver and entering it as £20 and giving £3 change to their sister, neighbour etc. With a staff of 500+ it was tricky catching staff in the act, you could only pin the one transaction on them despite maybe 2/3 months stealing.
 Feral child rant - Bromptonaut
Perky,

The issue may have been permission for pics. OTOH some people are extrordinarily bad mannered. Either they take repeated flash pictures, dazzling thhose nearby or they stand up to 'snap' just as their little darling says his/her piece.

Actualy the latter piece of selfishness is not new. My parents missed the moment of my sister's degree presentation 'cos the gits in from stood up for a better view of theirs.

Ditto trying to photograph Concorde, Vulcan or whatever is the highlight of the day at airshows.
 Feral child rant - FotheringtonTomas
>> "There is no issue whatsoever with photographing anyone, in a public place, in any
>> reasonable circumstances "
>>
>> Try photographing children at a school at sports day..

The school is not a public place. They can make their own rules. I both photographed and videoed my son at his school's Sports Day this year - as did many other parents.

Try this:

Google search images for "primary sports day 2010 site:*.uk"
 Feral child rant - John H
>> "There is no issue whatsoever with photographing anyone, in a public place, in any reasonable
>> circumstances "
>>
>> Try photographing children at a school at sports day..
>>

news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=153986849
"Parents are not breaking the law by snapping their own children at school events, the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) said."

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/sep/09/child-porn-photography
"a man took some photographs of children on the promenade west of the Lido.
Fortunately a concerned citizen spotted him and alerted one of the event's stewards, who immediately called the police. They were on the spot within seconds, "

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/sep/17/photography-children-ban

 Feral child rant - Skoda
The council rather than the police are almost certainly a better bet. The police are kind of stuffed for dealing with things like this, but the council aren't.

Be prepared for the run around but never accept it. After a week or two you can involve your local councillor, an in person visit with your wee diary of events. The councillor can put the thumb screws on the minions in a way joe punter can't. The council will engage the police on your behalf if they're needed.


 Feral child rant - FotheringtonTomas
I don't understand that reply. It seems to be contextually misplaced.
 Feral child rant - Leif
>> Try photographing children at a school at sports day..
>>
>> I'm sorry: but paranoia is widespread..

FotheringtonThomas is correct. It is legal to photograph people in a public place, although it helps to have a good reason (tourism say), as taking photos in a suspicious way could lead to the police getting to know you better. A school sports day will most likely be held on private land, so the rules are different.

Unfortunately there is a lot of ignorance about photography in this country and I would call the current atmosphere hysterical.
 Feral child rant - FotheringtonTomas
>> Unfortunately there is a lot of ignorance about photography in this country

There is.

www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/
 Feral child rant - Leif
>> But doing this
>>
>> "So, just over a week ago I tried to photograph one of them, in broad
>> daylight, in a public place, taking care not to act like a 'kiddy fiddler!
>>
>> Was utter utter stupidity. What on earth did you think you were doing, or hoping
>> to achieve?


If you had read the original post, you would know the reason. What I did was legal and reasonable, according to a civilian worker on the Surrey police switchboard, and a PC. Both indicated that there was not much in the way of an alternative since I needed to find out who they were, having previously made numerous complaints to the police. And I succeeded. They are now known to the police, and their parents are aware of what they were doing as the police have been round to their homes. With luck it is sorted. My mistake was not to use a long lens, take a few photos, then leave before they realised that had happened. I thought that would look too suspicious. Even if they had chased me to my home, at least I could have dialled 999 from a safe haven. Of course the other alternative is to get three or more people to go along, two acting as witnesses, and protection, and that is probably the best course of action in general.

The problem is that these children are incredibly manipulative, and they have no concept of manners or normal behaviour. The girl was making a scene for no reason other than to appear as a victim, and so that when her siblings arrived, they would think something dreadful had happened to her. It was one big manipulative game. One of the children who has harassed me cycled up to me afterwards, cool as a cucumber, saying "She's under age, you took photographs, you're going to be arrested".

I know most kids in this area are well mannered, and polite, most of the time anyway. And I know other people, including many kids, consider these kids a pain. I would never have dreamt of behaving like them when I was young, and nor would most people, but for some reason they have no concept of normal behaviour. Somewhere along the line discipline has failed, and the kids will pay the price when in future they realise that they have squandered their lives.
 Feral child rant - R.P.
Leif,

There's a reasonable suggestion above somewhere - not wanting to seem to assume that these kids come from some sort of social housing but (if they happen to) have you considered Housing Association or Local Authority ASB departments ?
 Feral child rant - Zero
Leif

My point was, that photographing them in a public place, proved nothing, and only put you in danger, and your case in doubt.

They need to be identified actually doing something against you or your property.


CCTV at your place was the way to, not acting like some kind of public vigilante.
 Feral child rant - R.P.
As Zero says overtly manually filming could cause more trouble than its worth - given the paranoia about filming in public and filming children I would follow Zeros advice or go covert.
 Feral child rant - Leif
Pugugly said: "I would follow Zeros advice or go covert."

Agreed. The police advise me that CCTV is okay. But I would now advise against open photography, and advise anyone else to use a long lens from a distance, and have an escape route. Oh, and make sure that they register complaints with the police, giving them a chance to act, and establishing the reasons for taking photos.
 Feral child rant - Leif
>> Leif
>>
>> My point was, that photographing them in a public place, proved nothing, and only put
>> you in danger, and your case in doubt.

Okay, it is a fair point to make. But once the police have a photo, they can make enquiries at local schools to get names and addresses. As it is, I got a number plate, which was ideal.

>> They need to be identified actually doing something against you or your property.

The police can take action on the basis of a complaint, although in the case of legal action it would be their word against mine. I am sure the police are used to this kind of thing, and they do their best to talk with the parents, and scare the children into behaving before it gets more serious. I think the PC told the kids that the two offensive notices they pinned to my home and car were being sent for forensics tests. So they might be genuinely scared. To be honest legal action is a last resort. The very fact that they are known to the police should be a deterrent, and if trouble occurs elsewhere, and the police get more people saying they were harassed, then I think the legal path might well work.

In most respects the outcome is positive, and perhaps even for the little brats too.

>> CCTV at your place was the way to, not acting like some kind of public vigilante.

That is difficult given that I currently rent, but fake CCTV cameras might be a deterrent. In addition, I think infra red USB cameras could be placed in the window to capture images at night. Ordinary cameras with flash might not be effective through a window due to reflections.

 Feral child rant - mikeyb
If you want to photograph / film someone without irritating them then try something like this www.kgbcameras.co.uk/cameras/hiddencamera.htm

May also give you a little more evidence of any wrong doing to your person.

I guess I am lucky where I live - most of the yougsters here are polite and well mannered - they all attend the same local secondary so that gives me a degree of confidence for when mine get there. Many of the local kids also work in the local supermarkets, Waitrose in particular. This enable them to offer school friendly hours to the mums with the kids taking up many of the other shifts.

We did have a brief issue in my road a few months back with some older (17/18) kids gathering in cars in the school car park. I have to be honest the local Police community beat officer nipped it in the bud within a couple of days - he knocked a few doors and established that a few people knew the kids, told us he would "deal" with it and we never saw them again........
 Feral child rant - Skoda
>> www.kgbcameras.co.uk/cameras/hiddencamera.htm

I have one of those kits, the wireless one with the hand held video tuner. Both camera and receiver can be run off batteries or powered by the (included) AC power adapters. As new condition in a decent quality presentation box.

The price i was thinking of isn't even a quarter of what that site's punting them for. I can't believe they charge that much.

If it's the kind of thing anyone would buy feel free to email me. 1 less bit of tat filling up a cupboard :-)

EDIT: probs should have said the actual devices are pretty decent, work well & durable.
Last edited by: Skoda on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 19:52
 Feral child rant - MD
Needs sorting obviously. I cannot abide this behaviour and would require an immediate solution (To this Country's ills too). Put time and money to it. Identify parents (because they are ultimately responsible). Lock them up (the Parent's) and deprive them first followed by their offspring having to watch scenario, similarly deprived. Bread and water was called that for a reason. Make it clear there is no other option, no welfare or some council employee to go moaning to. One doesn't have to be cruel, but one does have to be firm. Utilise retired professionals from an era when manners and men mattered and/or under utilised ex military professionals. Remove all benefits whilst this is in progress. If corporal punishment needs to be used then use it, it worked for us and we are all fine upstanding tax paying involved members of society now. When this has been in progress and hopefully the tide has started to turn sack 75% of current 'teachers'. Use 'Normal' folk to teach the basics. They, the children, CANNOT all be designers or programmers or Artists or whatever the fancy words are these days/ Is it art and design? Wassat then? Teach them to cook, to say please and thank you. To respect their elders. To respect their community. Teach them that it costs Millions of pounds to collect the rubbish that they drop in the streets. Teach them that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

It is ALL about education and nothing else, but beware.........given long enough there will be nobody left with sufficient values to pass on.

Leif. Despite the fact that I know exactly what I would do, which would end my posting days, I have the greatest sympathy for you. My diatribe above is in no way intended to either trivialise the situation or to suggest that you should follow the same route, but sometimes as most know, I find it hard to contain my anger at a situation that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

Very best regards to you all. MD
 Feral child rant - corax
Good post MD, agree entirely.
 Feral child rant - -
Agreed C, i have a feeling those who think like us are in a declining minority now though.
 Feral child rant - Old Navy
Still a some of us around, we are the quiet majority, though how long this is going to last is anyone's guess.
 Feral child rant - Leif
Martin Devon said: "I cannot abide this behaviour and would require an immediate solution"

I think the silent majority would agree with you but taking effective action is expensive. Alternatively people in the neighbourhood can stand up to them, and inform the police as and when necessary, rather than cowering in their homes. We have become a nation of people living in our own little worlds, and expecting the state to take care of everything. I know people at work such as the company MD will intervene if they see someone being harassed, or causing trouble. Clearly this does not address the individual's underlying behavioural problems, but it does lessen the damage to others.

What worries me is that problem families often have a lot of kids, and they will have behavioural problems. They in their turn will have a lot of kids, and no doubt they too will have behavioural problems. Whereas an awful lot of the decent people I have met (working class, middle class, and posh) have only one or maybe two kids, and often none.
 Feral child rant - FotheringtonTomas
>> I know people at work such as the company MD will intervene if they
>> see someone being harassed, or causing trouble. Clearly this does not
>> address the individual's underlying behavioural problems

Oh, you know, I think it helps. Rather than let them get away with *everything*, they know that sometimes their little games can be brought to a hard stop. Did I say I think it helps? I *know* it does. Be circumspect, though.
 Feral child rant - Fenlander
I remember mentioning it some time back that for a while last year we lived on an estate in the village where a gang of 11-16yr olds were spoiling life for a whole group of residents. There was no way I'd put up with it. I knew the kids and all their parents which was an advantage but over a week or two from first moving in I stopped all the hassle around us. Ok they may have moved elsewhere and perhaps they started up again when we left.... but it does show it's possible. All I did was go out and lay into them verbally every time I saw or heard them up to no good. I was always puzzled that much bigger/harder guys than me would carry on mowing the lawn and ignore them.

Perhaps you are in a more hardened area Leif where you're wary of stirring up trouble but if just a few people in each street took a zero-tolerance view they'd probably stop.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 9 Nov 10 at 23:05
 Feral child rant - MD
>>I was always puzzled that much bigger/harder guys than me would carry on mowing the lawn and ignore them.
>>
Bigger/harder subservient to the Wife unable to think for themselves or have the spherical objects to act.
 Feral child rant - teabelly
If these feral children try this behaviour with the wrong person then they'll get ripped a new pfd hole. They obviously don't consider this possibility and reminding them that there much nastier people around then even they can imagine might cause them to be more circumspect or at least dead in a ditch which would again solve the problem...
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 10 Nov 10 at 12:46
 Feral child rant - MD
I get angry very quickly because I know that there is nobody (with teeth) to complain to. Everyone I speak to more or less agrees with my views and I earwig other conversations and they talk about the same things, but try and get them together and forget it. Bunch of living room cowards the Brits. All high revs and no transmission!

The big puzzle though is this. If we all (in the main) agree then where did the softies come from? The non smackers, ooman rights, ooh I've broken a finger nail I have to have a day off brigade. Where the chuffing hell did they come from??

It's BROKEN. And only a War will fix it.
 Feral child rant - Zero

>> And only a War will fix it.

You what? you do spout some rubbish at times MD. Dont think you have been in a war have you.
 Feral child rant - MD
Here we go. You suggest a solution then (that will work) Mr. Know it all.

I have no wish to be in a war scenario, but run from nothing.

You Mr. Wikepedia come up with a solution to make the great unwashed say please and thank you. A solution that will tell their brains NOT to despoil their 'nest' or that of others. To teach them the proven values of vitamins as opposed to Sunny delight and Burgers. To say Think and not fink. Not to end every sentence wiv (sic) and stuff. Everyfin, innit. I caught a glimpse and I mean a glimpse of an advert on the Idiot's Goldfish bowl tonight which (I believe) was promoting something called Pot Noodle. You watch it see how it affects you.

If you can come up with a workable solution to rid this country of the dross that pervades it then I for one will support you until the end.
 Feral child rant - CGNorwich
"promoting something called a Pot Noodle"

But they've managed to get a whole Chiristmas lunch into a pot. The new Pot Noodle is a "festive fusion of turkey and stuffing".Technology marches on triumphantly! Think of the savings in man hours this great leap forward will achieve.

 Feral child rant - Pat
Thanks CG:)

That's the answer to my lack of culinary skills, I do hope the in-laws appreciate their Xmas day lunch!

Pat
 Feral child rant - Zero

>> If you can come up with a workable solution to rid this country of the
>> dross that pervades it then I for one will support you until the end.

Alas Martin, you concentrate too much on the very small minority of dross that's around and not the vast majority of the good honest British people. There has always been dross, You cant hark on about a country that never existed.
 Feral child rant - SteelSpark
I sympathise Leif and agree with a lot of what has been said here about people in the neighbourhood confronting them.

The problem is that it is often not simple, unless you are prepared to get yourself in trouble, which most people aren't.

I live in some bad areas, when I was younger, and it was soul destroying to see people cowering in their homes.

At the time, I thought I could take on all comers, and so I didn't have a problem, but then I didn't have a family that could be threatened, or a career that could be damaged by a criminal record.

The problem is that the lives of these people often just revolve around causing trouble for others, mainly because their own existences are such a waste of space, and so they are pretty good at it. No doubt they would celebrate, if they ever managed to get somebody arrested for example.

It is hard to get decent people to confront the bad ones, when there is often much more to lose than gain.
 Feral child rant - Perky Penguin
A very well reasoned post, if I may say so SS? There are problem people and, depending on where you live, there are agencies who can deal with them. The problem is getting them to do so. Another problem is that many of them are watching their own backs and passing the buck (Sharon Shoesmith + baby P) or are just useless, (lady who burned herself and her disabled daughter in her car, after 7 years or bullying and harrassment and no action taken) "We will put measures in place to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again" said Joe Jobsworth of the Local Council. Yes - right! Most of us have questions and problems but very few of us have, or have access to, answers and remedies.
 Feral child rant - teabelly
Actually the simplest solution is to put all the scum onto one large estate somewhere, basically a prison style camp. If they misbehave they get sent there to live with scum just like them. Then they'll know what their neighbours had to put up with! You don't give them a choice. They get bundled into a van with their possessions and that's that.

The idea was sort of proposed in Sue Townsend's book , Queen Camilla. The Royal Family were also sent off to one. Single parents, criminals etc were all in different streets with regular security patrols to keep an eye on them.
 Feral child rant - helicopter
They did that in Croydon a few years back , built an estate three miles away from anywhere ... called it New Addington and sent all the problem families there........ otherwise known as the dirt Croydon Corporation swept under the carpet.

But short of building a wall round it and calling it a prison that appears to be the reality of most inner city council estates these days and people like Leif are the ones who suffer.

I am sure most UK cities have an estate like that, you only have to watch the Police programmes on the telly to see what it must be like to live there ..... horrendous...



 Feral child rant - Iffy
...and people like Leif are the ones who suffer...

Leif mentions he's in rented accommodation.

It seems almost impossible in this country to rent an average sized flat or house without exposing oneself to the problems he has encountered.

Selfishly, I want property rises to remain high around Iffy Towers, not because I want to sell, but to keep the riff-raff out.

 Feral child rant - Leif
retpocileh said: "that appears to be the reality of most inner city council estates these days and people like Leif are the ones who suffer."

Fortunately I rent in quite a nice semi-rural area where most people are so calm it is eery. The problem is that the flat faces onto a small path leading from some shops and I believe that the kids come from council houses about 1 km away. I only discovered the estate after the trouble started as it is hidden away. I think there are a few problem kids in most places. Even a pleasant polite young lad who was working for the same company as me left and according to his grandad he is now dealing drugs for a living.

There have been lots of sensible suggestion in this thread, so thank you to everyone.

Regarding suggestions to use a long stick on a dark night, if only I could. The kids know their 'rights'. I really do think it is up to locals to alert the police, and let them do the dirty work.
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