In my area for the last couple of days there has been some rumblings about a local school where the new Head has enforced a dress code by sending 88 home the first day and 25 the second.
tinyurl.com/3x9b2vt
Now just to give some background the school historically has had its problems. It is situated in the largest council estate in Europe and has had three different titles that I know of.
There has been many comments to the article several of which have alluded to the fact that those who support the Head have managed to construct a reasonable argument and those criticising the Head have shown a lack of literacy skills. Wondered if there was some connection there. One of the female pupils involved was called - wait for it .............. Lexus. I kid you not! (Motoring related link ;-) )
My opinion is that there should be more strict enforcement of a dress code as it demonstrates conformity and discipline which should be two of life's basic skills sadly lacking in society as we see it at present.
Views anyone?
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quick answer
totally agree
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>> quick answer
>> totally agree
>>
Me too, throw in instilling personal standards as well, (if the parents can't or won't).
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Discipline is good, but not conformity. I'm not pro uniform, but if he turns the school round, good for him.
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>> Err - her :-)
Oops! Yes, her!
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When I get to old age, if there aren't any short skirted school girls with bare midriffs knocking about the local high street at lunch time, I will be mighty unhappy.
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Is conformity a basic skill? Had not virtually all progress made by mankind been made by non conformists and people who were prepared to think for themselves.
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Agreed but there still need to be some conformity to basic skills and values.
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But what does wearing a uniform achieve ? Why is wearing the same jacket as the person next to you a basic value?
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Oh dear.
Its about learning to occasionally do as you are told and not as you want. Conforming to standards and rules like you might have to do when you grow up and get a job. Not many people can do exactly what they want all of the time. If an employer makes certain requirements of you then you should conform. Like wearing appropriate protective equipment or some corporate uniform.
Its also about school not being a fashion parade for the have's and have nots or bullying based on what someone can or cannot afford to wear.
It should be a about a sense of pride, identity and belonging. Values and virtues that have been eroded.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Thu 4 Nov 10 at 23:39
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Agree FC. My kids go to a school where full uniform must be worn at all times including Blazer. It helps identify anyone from that school.
As you say it also takes away the fashion parade side of things, those that can afford and those can't and the subsequent peer pressure and bullying that can come as a result.
It also keeps things cheap from a parents point of view. White school shirts, grey trousers or skirt. Full uniform can be bought for cheaper than a pair of the designer Jeans they would prefer!
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Bobby and Fullchat, I usually agree and respect your views and by and large I suppose I do on uniform, but I have to put the other angle to you.
I went to a grammar school that had a quite distinctive uniform and it was always said to be a great leveller, and it prevented bullying and ridicule.
No, it didn't.
My uniform, (bought with a grant) when it was new, was enormous...too wide, too long and not a chance of finding my hands up the sleeves of my blazer.
There was a few months when it actually fitted and I looked like most of the others but it then became too short, tight and very threadbare.
I remember envying those who turned up with yet another new set and the remarks made to me and one or two others about ours.
These remarks were made by the same ones who didn't have to queue at the front of the class on a Monday morning to sign in for free school dinners.
I hated my time at grammar school and wished so much that I hadn't passed my 11plus, and had been allowed to go to the local secondary school where uniform wasn't an option.
I fully accept that now days it is more of a leveller, as designer wear has become the price tag to wear if you want to be popular, but I was shocked to read the same old platitudes trotted out in that report, as were told to us all those years ago.
It did teach me one thing though...to hold my head high!
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Pat has some very pertinent points, but all bases cannot be covered. I agree with you FC. If we as a society don't get a grip on the unholy mess that *leedin* heart Liberals have left us then we will slip further down the social scale as if we haven't gone too far already. More discipline can't be a bad thing provided it is administered fairly.
Regards............Martin.
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Regrettably some schools have a distinctive school uniform which can only be bought from one or two named suppliers who "adjust" the price accordingly. No chance of by passing the system.
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My main commute is taking my two teen girls to school each day. I'm very keen that they keep to the school rules of full uniform (sadly blazers dropped last year though), no mobiles/Ipods, minimal makeup.
From what I can see those that try and push their luck in these areas are not usually the ones that want to work in lessons.
From my point of view as a parent a uniform is far better than trying to keep them competing in the world of fashion each week.
I hear what Pat says about her uniform but these days peer pressure between children and the high spending habits of some/many parents on their teen's clothes soon marks out those that wear *skanky* casual stuff too.
Edit: Also from a practical point of view the uniforms (well the ones we have been using) are very easy care. All in one load and tumble dry with no-iron. I would hate them to be wanting all their casual light/dark hand wash stuff ready for school.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 08:07
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My Daughter, soon to be Twenty Five (where did that go?) came home from school one day and stated that she needed a new bag. I said OK. She replied that "it has to be (some flash brand)" I said why and she said cos everyone else has one. I pointed out that it would be best to be an individual and not have the same as the rest. The point was accepted and she has followed that course ever since. Job done. Smirks.
MD
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I went to a school with an enforced uniform and the only place you could buy some of the items was an expensive uniform shop. When you came from a poor family as I did, that was unwelcome. There is nothing wrong with a degree of conformity as suggested by the OP.
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Totally agree, Leif, in fact I was going to make the same point, I'd agree with a uniform, but it must be able to be purchased for a reasonable price and not just from those overpriced "school uniform" shops... If there has to be a badge on the blazer then it should be able to be purchased separately and sewed on!
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I agree too, mine was one of those striped things!
Pat
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Primark should be the standard school uniform. You won't get better quality anywhere else for £3 an item.
As for conforming, ughh. I would hate my kids to conform. I tell them every morning they're English, they're different and they're special. Play nicely, no teasing, make me proud.
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Well, there's a thing.
You're posts so often make me want to give you a thumbs down, and then you go and say something that makes me do just the opposite Dave :)
Pat
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Oh no, I've shown a serious side!
Knickers!
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That's really blown the picture I had of you in my mind.
Cowboy boot wearing, droopy tach, greasy black straggly hair.....!
Pat
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I'd love a tache like this
tinyurl.com/3x2f42r
Coolest guy that ever lived. Wifey won't hear of it, unfortunately
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At our girls school the only logo'd items to buy from the uniform shop are a sweatshirt and polo shirt. These are a little more expensive than generic ones but in truth the quality is worth it as they wash and wash again still looking as new.
Trousers, skirts, tights, socks, shoes, coats, PE kit can all be bought from Asda or wherever to offset costs.
The parents I see that shout loudest about the cost of school uniform often willingly spend a fortune on other questionable items for their kids.
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There is definitely a lot of money in selling school uniforms - I know of one "professional" whose income from his two shops is three times what he makes at his day job...
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>> There is definitely a lot of money in selling school uniforms - I know of
>> one "professional" whose income from his two shops is three times what he makes at
>> his day job...
>>
That doesn't surprise me. Whilst I'm not a big fan of school uniform I can see the positive points, but it really does get up my nose having to buy specific items from specific shops which are vastly more expensive than equivalent run of the mill stuff. I'd like to see it defined broadly enough such that it can be bought from a wide range of outlets at competitive prices.
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>>>it really does get up my nose having to buy specific items from specific shops.
I wonder which specific items you refer to?
I also wonder of those who comment here how many have school age children wearing uniforms?
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>> >>>it really does get up my nose having to buy specific items from specific shops.
>>
>> I wonder which specific items you refer to?
>>
>> I also wonder of those who comment here how many have school age children wearing
>> uniforms?
>>
Blazers are the most financially painful example, although thankfully the local(ish) schools have dropped them in recent years.
Until recently the local infant school insisted on polo tops with the school badge printed on them, which were around 8 quid as opposed to 2 quid for a better quality plain one from M&S. Sweat tops / cardigans are still required (from 4 years up) with the school badge on, the material quality is very shoddy and maybe 2 -3 times the price of a plain royal blue one (thankfully no exotic colours to deal with here).
At senior school level Spamette Minor still has to have purple pullovers with the school badge on, which are roughly 2x high street cost and are threadbare buy the end of a term.
If it was really just about image and discipline rather than financial then make the badges available separately so us parents can sew them on to clothing that might actually last more than 5 minutes.
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We were lucky our girls primary only had an £8 logo'd sweatshirt as the specific item... all the rest could be generic in the correct greys/blues... the school sweatshirt was better quality than any on the high street too.
Their current secondary school sweats are really well made and I guess about double the cost as you say.... to me a bargain to keep away from the stress of buying designer gear.
I'd hate sew on badges with the fact some kids will not bother and the random positioning plus variable attachment skills would look tatty.
My comment about the higher costs of logo'd uniform being nothing in the scheme of things stems from the fact that more than 50% of the secondary kids are walking out of schools glued to smartphone screens or scrolling through Ipods provided by parents. Perhaps more important as an example on our two over 12mths transport to school cost £1000, trips £1500 & lunches £1200.
So why care that the two logo'd uniform items we have to buy might incur £60/yr extra costs?
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>>on our two over 12mths transport to school cost £1000, trips £1500 & lunches £1200.<<
For many families Fenlander, costs like that are simply out of the question.
It would be a packed lunch, a secondhand pushbike and a firm 'No, we can't manage the school trip'
For these families, an extra cost of any amount for uniform which can be avoided by buying from Asda/Primark is simply unacceptable.
Pat
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It's all a question of balances and choices though Pat. We don't smoke or drink out, we don't go out clubbing, no expensive foreign holidays, we have a very modest clothes budget, there is no cupboard full of games consoles/ DVDs/video games here. Kids haven't got their own laptops, Mrs and I have basic mobiles and she doesn't have a hand full of gold rings.
Oddly the parents that migh be classed as *poor* and moan the loudest about school uniform/meals costs seem to afford most of the above things all shiny and new???
A *poor* husband and wife who are modest smokers and enjoy a few drinks on a sat night will easily get through £5500 a year on those items alone... far far more than our total budget to give two teenagers the very best time during their school years.
We are very happy to put money into the kids teenage years somewhat at the expense of our own needs.
BTW all our pushbikes are bought cheaply from Ebay... as are our second hand mowers and Dysons! The fen spirit lives.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 13:32
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>> It's all a question of balances and choices though Pat.
Well up to a point Lord Copper.
While some people make the choices described others will be living a life more frugal than your own and still not have the price of a chip supper at left over by the end of the week.
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>>Well up to a point Lord Copper.
If people are really that poor, should they be having children at all?
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Please don't think I'm criticising your choice, Fenlander, I'm certainly not.
All I'm trying to do is enable you to see that there are so many who don't have that choice to make.
I don't agree that the majority of the *poor* you talk of do those things, the minority probably do but the vast majority of the *poor* I know just get on with working and paying the bills while quietly ending up worse off than they were the week before, through no fault of their own.
Mapmakers uniform price list says it all really.
I don't doubt it looks very smart and that the school is very commendable but the fact still remains that to obtain the basic set of uniform (which is compulsory) is so far out of reach of some people that they have to offer 3 x monthly payments.
Surely our priority is to educate, not to create debts for parents to fulfil before that can happen, for the sake of appearance?
Being honest, I have to say that I firmly believe that children/teenagers need to realise that they can't have everything, and that even though saying 'no' is probably painful for the parent, long term the effect on the offspring has to be beneficial.
Pat
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Pat, I'm entirely with you on this one, both ours are now in their early 20s, but we really did struggle when the local schools insisted that we bought the stuff from the Uniform shop... and we didn't go on expensive holidays, they didn't have the latest game console (didn't even have one!), nor mobiles, etc. We could afford to have kids but only just and that sort of unnecessary cost was out of order when the cheaper stuff was just as smart...
However just for the record we could (and can) sew straight, so sewing a badge on would be no problem, and for those who can't, we they should try learning!!
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I always respect your view Pat... no problem there.
Yes I do accept there will be a small minority who genuinely have difficulties and are responsible keeping to a modest spend.
I am wound up by the hard luck stories of many though when you look at their personal ideas of what's important. My last example (I promise) being of a local out of work family who claim absolute poverty yet own three pedigree (nasty!) dogs that cost near on £500 each and goodness knows how much to feed each week. Mother chain smokes & husband spends over £1200/yr down the pub yet tells teen daughter they can't afford the odd £10/£20/£30 for her to do this or that now and again because they're too hard up.
I hate to see the social difficilty and peer pressure issues caused to the teen by this selfishness.... it's a bit of a soap box issue for me!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 14:17
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I don't follow why you should insist that people go to overpriced uniform shops, though F, when the ones from the big stores are just as good... and just as neat... but cost a lot less... everyone has their own priorities, and I could think of better things to have bought for my kids, which would at least have been educational, than an overpriced uniform.
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For a start I think the uniform shops are higher priced not overpriced. I'd hate to take the stock cost risks with huge range of different logo'd items they have to stock with far far smaller volumes than a plain item sold nationally in Asda.
I'm also making all my comments based on all the local secondary schools where there are only a couple of items logo specific (polo top and sweatshirt) and all the rest can be bought from your favourite budget store.
Taking that local example the cost uplift over generic clothing is no more than £1 a week or so between both our girls which in truth is very little to even a *hard up* family .
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>>are higher priced not overpriced
In your opinion, F... I beg to differ! As I said I could think of lots more useful things for my kids education than having to spend money on overpriced goods, and they are overpriced... the dangers of a captive market, I'm afraid! We didn't even have the option of sew-on badges at one school they went to!
Last edited by: hobby on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 16:26
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If they're supposed to wear school uniform, then they should wear it.
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What example do the staff set? Jackets, ties, smart dresses, proper shoes? Or do they slouch around in pyjama-like combat gear and trainers too?
I'm not suggesting academic gowns as standard with mortar boards at assembly, as in my day, but they will only get the respect they demonstrate themselves.
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>> I'm not suggesting academic gowns as standard with mortar boards at assembly, as in my
>> day, but they will only get the respect they demonstrate themselves.
That is an interesting point. I remember some formally dressed teachers who I hated,and I did no work and messed about. The cold disciplinarian approach alienated me. Some years later there was a maths teacher who my parents described as being on "dirty protest". (Those who recall the Maze prison will know what that means.) I don't think he was a 'woolly liberal' type, but he talked to us with respect, treating us as individuals, and incited enthusiasm for the work. We all behaved very well, and did well in the exams. I guess the point I am making is that discipline matters, but it must be part of a atmosphere of achievement and respect.
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Our girls school is an ordinary local one and I've never seen a tatty teacher yet. Some slightly more casual than others but only the sports teachers are ever in track suits and trainers. Most dress in a similar way to smart office workers.
Our girls do not see their clothes as such... teacher attitude is the important bit.
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I live in Southwark, in an extremely poor part of inner London. It is notable that uniforms have been introduced recently in large numbers of schools and the children all look much smarter, and surely that cannot be a bad thing for them.
One girl's school (a Harris Academy I think) has an amazing navy blazer with shocking pink lining, the shocking pink theme is continued throughout the uniform and the girls look ready to do a good day's work. They wear their uniform with such pride and so smartly that it shows that it is worth it.
In fact, a quick google brings it up. You really wouldn't believe that their parents aren't paying £3,000 a term for their schooling.
www.whitehallclothiers.com/download/Harris%20-%20Bermondsey.pdf
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>> My opinion is that there should be more strict enforcement of a dress code as
>> it demonstrates conformity and discipline which should be two of life's basic skills sadly lacking
>> in society as we see it at present.
>>
>> Views anyone?
>>
Agreed, and I think Fenlander has got it right.
Uniforms are in general cheap to buy and most schools accept M&S, Tesco, Asda et.al. kit. Otherwise these companies would not sell them.
A few "elite" ones do have elaborate uniforms which cost a fortune, but even then they without exception have a second-hand uniform shop. Sometimes these clothes are donated or handed over to friends directly without any charge.
The exceptions that pda and her supporters are basing their cases on are just that, just a very few exceptions. As for pda-Pat having to wear her ill-fitting uniform, was she not able to buy 2nd hand at her school?
Compulsory membership of CCF at school would soon sort out many of UK's "attitude to life" and "respect for law and order and authority" problems (and reduce obesity epidemic at the same time). It would also help get rid of the "us and them", "rich and poor", "politics of envy", "undeserving filthy rich", "deserving hard done by poor" etc. mentality.
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>>>Compulsory membership of CCF ...
Oh yes... remember those monster playground/corridor slides possible with the hob nail boots!
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I wonder how countries with such diverse educational systems and cultures as the USA, Germany,Sweden, France and Canada seem to manage in the large without school uniforms?
Perhaps the furore this issue often causes provides a useful insight into the British psyche.
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>> I wonder how countries with such diverse educational systems and cultures as the USA, Germany,Sweden,
>> France and Canada seem to manage in the large without school uniforms?
>>
>> Perhaps the furore this issue often causes provides a useful insight into the British psyche.
>>
A very good point!
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CCF hob-nail boots, remember the hot spoons and Kiwi ?
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 15:09
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>>>CCF hob-nail boots, remember the hot spoons and Kiwi ?
Indeed... we had our own school glider (of sorts) too... guess that made us posh??
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School glider ? On a great big bungee ? Us too ! Maths teacher who was also ex-RAF used to stretch it with an Austin Champ. He had a gammy leg too...
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>>>School glider ? On a great big bungee ? Us too ! Maths teacher who was also ex-RAF...
Now I'm really worried Humph... did we go to the same school in the midlands??
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Not unless Edinburgh has been re-located !
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Oh thank goodness... secrets are still safe.
Was your glider the A-frame type that did a ground run with wing baffles and a hop when they were removed? One of our most famous incidents was when one CCF officer took off the baffles and had the bungee pulled out too far for his run.... it took off so well he couldn't get it back on the ground before the field ended... thankfully the tennis court outer netting acted as catcher!
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We had a glider in our school - we built it in a vain attempt to escape - Ludlow was were we were heading for..
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It sounds like you went to school at Oflag IV-C
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It was a good school - approved apparently.
Funnily enough my brother in law called at my former Headmaster's home to do him an IT favour tonight - scarily enough he remembers me....not bad after 33 yrs....not a good thing either.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 21:47
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>> CCF hob-nail boots, remember the hot spoons and Kiwi ?
>>
Blanco'd belts, with special metal tools with slots so that you could polish the buckles without getting polish on the webbing ?
I was in the RN section. We had several different uniforms for different occasions, each designated with a number. I can only remember "Number 8s", which meant overalls for messy jobs. Called "After Eights" by one wag.
Pull-throughs? We used to steal ammunition to cut open to extract the powder for bigger-scale experiments. It was the master in charge of rifle shooting who showed us that trick.
All good training for this day and age.
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I think I've still got an unopened tin of blanco. It's in the box of "things which may come in handy one day" Has to be 35 years old. Not sure if I'll need it now..
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>>I was in the RN section.
The RN section at our school were definitely the sloppiest marchers. I picked the RAF, but soon discovered a much better way of passing the time was to persuade the "CO" that it would be a good idea to film everything for posterity. I spent an entire year filming other boys marching about and firing guns from various vantage points, all on 16mm. I still have the film, but the school didn't have a 16mm projector at the time so I've never actually seen it....
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>>A few "elite" ones do have elaborate uniforms which cost a fortune,
See my link above. An elite school? More like a recently ex-failing school. 50% of pupils get 5 A-C passes at GCSE. In 2007 that was 32%.
It's not all down to the uniform, of course not. But uniform means smartly turned out children who treat their schools with respect.
Parents who cannot afford the odd few tenners for uniform shouldn't be breeding.
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>>Parents who cannot afford the odd few tenners for uniform shouldn't be breeding<<
That's a despicable comment MM, and yes, it was me that rated it that way.
Pat
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>> >>Parents who cannot afford the odd few tenners for uniform shouldn't be breeding<<
>>
>> That's a despicable comment MM, and yes, it was me that rated it that way.
>>
>> Pat
>>
Why should the rest of us have to subsidise their lives? It's people with views like yours who think they have a god-given right to live a life subsidised by the rest of society who have left this nation in the state it currently is.
If they want children, they budget for them. Same as the rest of us. If they're feckless, they don't deserve children.
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>> It's people with views
>> like yours who think they have a god-given right to live a life subsidised by
>> the rest of society who have left this nation in the state it currently is.
>>
?? What state? On a global scale UK is within the top ten by GDP, and top 20 by several other measures I can think of.
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>>The exceptions that pda and her supporters are basing their cases on are just that, just a very few exceptions<<
I really do think you must live in a different world to most of us John.
Even in a relatively small group such as on this forum, there are at least four people that I can recall as having admitted to struggling financially.
Sadly the term 'struggling financially' means different things to different people.
Pat
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>> Sadly the term 'struggling financially' means different things to different people.
>>
>> Pat
>>
Yes, I agree, as I said "us and them". The lardy ones living on benefits of one kind or another with their fags, beer, and their latest iPods and iPhones, iPads, and TVs; wearing the latest football-club or Burberry, Nike, or Adidas branded clothes; - you know the ones that want taxpayers to pay for their life - are the ones who always seem to be struggling financially. Strangely, none of them ever seem to be Liberal or Tory supporters.
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I do apologise Gentlemen ( and I use that term very loosely) I defended the right to have an opinion about school uniform. I put forward a measured and reasonable view.
You two retaliate by hurling personal insults ..... if that's breeding, give me the uncouth any day
Pat
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>> You two retaliate by hurling personal insults ..... if that's breeding, give me the uncouth
>> any day
>>
>> Pat
>>
I presume you're making reference to John H and me? Whom you have described as "living in a different world" and making a "despicable comment" - those are personal insults, not a measured and reasonable view. Neither of us has hurled any personal insult against you! (Perjorative comments have been reserved for the feckless and unemployable, and only if you consider yourself to fall in these categories can you feel insulted.)
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>>only if you consider yourself to fall in these categories can you feel insulted.)<<
I disagree, and a smiley is entirely inappropriate.
I feel insulted for all the hardworking people there are in this world, who are not lardy or lazy, but still struggle financially.
I feel insulted for everyone who hasn't got as broad shoulders as I have and who would have been very, very hurt by those two posts.
I also feel extremely sad that some people have led such sheltered lives and are totally bereft of any compassion, as a result.
I didn't think class was important anymore, clearly I was wrong.
I didn't think the way anyone voted made a difference to their social standing.
>> "living in a different world" and making a "despicable comment"<<
These are not personal insults, simply that I had an opinion and dared to voice it.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 16:22
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Pat sweetie, that wasn't a smiley. It was closing a set of parentheses. No need to get offended by an insult that isn't there.
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Quit while you're winning MM and don't patronise me by calling me sweetie.
I get offended by being talked down to, very easily.
Pat
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I was fortunate enough to go to Kenya last year.
We observed a lifestyle and poverty alien to this country. Even traveling miles and miles into the bush when we came across schools all the children were proudly wearing uniform.
Blanco'd webbing and hobnail boots a .303 rifles and Bren Guns, - its all coming back. A couple of years ago the kids brought home from school a diagram one of those brass plates that slid under the buckles to see if I could identify it. No one else had a clue.
ID'd it straight away. that really showed my age. :-(
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 17:39
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Was given a left-handed compliment the other day... ALL the kids used my kid's tie the other day for their school photos!
Having seen the bedraggled masses exitting the school come home time, I wonder IF they have any clue on proper dress sense (and ask Henry - I'm a scruff myself)
BUT I can still wear clothes well, tie a tie, and polish my shoes. And so can my offspring.
Junior lost his trainers the other day - so we went to the school office and rummaged through the lost property basket. I could not belive the VERY new and expensive stuff which had been 'lost', and wondered what the parent thought (or knew) about it?
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One wonders at times, that maybe some of you should emigrate, as you seem to despise this country so much.
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why do you think I live where I live?
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I am in favour of full uniform and it being fully enforced. I think it sets an expectation / standard in the school and its pupils. I recall at my secondary school they were strict on the wearing of uniform as they wanted to give "uniformity" to all the pupils by eliminating the have / have nots situations
I am lucky that my children's school (primary) only require you to buy the jumpers and all other items are generic, although they do prefer you to have one set of full logo uniform for school photos / trips etc.
A colleague of mine has a daughter at a run of the mill comprehensive and their uniform policy is ridiculous IMO. Everything has to be bought via the school at great cost right down to the tracksuit they have to buy for PE which has their names embroidered on it and costs £50 a pop. Just to top it off the school have prohibited the handing down of uniform to younger siblings. The area in question has pockets of wealth, but most of the pupils will come from families where they are at best average earners.
Just to follow up on an earlier comment I fully agree that those who can't afford to support their children should have considered the full costs / implications when they had them. We have 4 children and a 5th (and final) on the way, but that decision was made on the basis that both of us have above average earnings therefore can afford to house / support a larger family - I wish more would give more though to procreation.
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One pays for the education of ones children through ones taxes. One should not be forced to pay through the nose for overpriced ponsy and snobbish school uniforms.
As I have said before, if permission to have children was means tested, half of you would not be here.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 5 Nov 10 at 19:56
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>> As I have said before, if permission to have children was means tested, half of you would not be here.
..be less traffic too, bit of a result all round really.
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>>
>> >> As I have said before, if permission to have children was means tested, half
>> of you would not be here.
>>
>> ..be less traffic too, bit of a result all round really.
>>
Yeah, but we might be left with the half we don't like :-)
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AND my dog could poo in the woods, safe in the knowledge it wouldn't be run over by a rabid x-country cyclist.
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You will never get away from the fashion culture fully with a school uniform,you will still get the well off parents sending there kids in designer white shirt and trousers & of course comes trainers the must have.
Hi tec as a lad was a no no it had to be Addidas but when i had bigger feet at 15 it was difficult then (86) to get much like today.
£60.00+ parents pay for trainers for there kids i can now wear £35.00 branded trainers like Addidas when there last of in size 13, Thank god for big feet i can now be fashionable.!!
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"AND my dog could poo in the woods, safe in the knowledge it wouldn't be run over"
So can you Zero. With one of these:
tinyurl.com/yjkbfvh
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In my schooldays I had a standard blazer with a badge stitched onto the top pocket. When I outgrew the blazer, the badge was transferred to the next one. If I wore out the cuffs or the elbows of the blazer my mother repaired them with matching leather. My grammar school cap and tie lasted the whole of my duration at the school. Before the start of school in the morning, there were prefects stationed 200 yards in both directions from the school to check that we were wearing the required items of uniform. I wore short trousers until I was 12. If we met the Headmaster walking to school we had to touch our cap and say "Good morning , sir." We didn't complain about or rebel against the rules. We accepted that discipline was necessary and normal.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 6 Nov 10 at 09:40
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"We didn't complain about or rebel against the rules. We accepted that discipline was necessary and normal."
What were the sixties all about then if it was not a rebellion against the rigid conformity of the post war years?
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>> What were the sixties all about then if it was not a rebellion against the
>> rigid conformity of the post war years?
It was the late forties to middle fifties. Incidentally, we wore our tie properly, not with the knot halfway down our chest.
I started work in 1960 and we were still disciplined. Once you've learned to be accept discipline you don't change. It's a lifetime thing.
Did you actually experience the sixties or are you just quoting hearsay?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 6 Nov 10 at 10:05
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I experienced the 60's, can't you tell?
Pat
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A Head Teacher with sense!
Uniform is a tool for promoting cohesion in the pupil's minds and attitudes and should also promote a sense of pride in the school and a common identity with other pupils.
If more schools were organised this, I think it would be a good thing.
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Oh yes I experienced the sixties. They were like a breath of fresh air (possibly a little adulterated!) after the grey depressing fifties. I went to a school much like you described. Oh the joy to be free of that dreary place and dress and do what I liked. If my school taught me anything it was never to accept pointless rules and that there was little correlation between wealth and intelligence.
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>> ...I wore short trousers until I was 12. If we met
>> the Headmaster walking to school we had to touch our cap and say "Good morning
>> , sir." We didn't complain about or rebel against the rules. We accepted that discipline
>> was necessary and normal.
>>
I had that too - in the '80s. Mind you, it was That Sort Of School.
One of the easiest environments in which to operate that I have ever known. You knew what the rules were, and you also knew that if you broke them, as surely as night followed day you would be outside the HM's study the next Monday morning awaiting the cane. And if you had any sense whatsoever, you made damn sure that wasn't you standing there.
There were a few repeat customers (as you might say) but a handful at most.
Did make the transition to the bear-garden that was my senior school a bit of an eye-opener though. 100% discipline to no discipline took a bit of adjustment...
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>> ...I wore short trousers until I was 12.
The biggest probelm i had was moving into Standard 8 - ie 10th year at school - when we had to ditch the shorts and short-sleeved shirts and wear blazer, tie and longs every day. Try that in 30+ degree heat!
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School Uniform - Bellboy
