Toaster plugged in but no bread in and not set.
Mrs B tidying stuff and drops a short USB charging lead into toaster.
Loud bang and CB for downstairs sockets trips.
Why would elements be live in circs above?
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I doubt the elements would be live, but it might be quite easy for a USB lead to snake to a position where it shorts a live feed to earth. Even if there's a switch on the device it could hit the live side of that.
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The timer thingy, clockwork on mine, makes the circuit. If it switches both live and neutral then there will be nothing past the timer. It it only switches one side of the circuit then that should be the live. The casing and other metal parts should be earthed. I would guess most toasters are single pole but they aren't my specialist subject.
It's AC of course but the neutral supply is bound to earth somewhere.
It sounds to me as if your toaster has a single pole switch and it is on the neutral side. If that is the case then the elements will be live when the toaster is only off at the timer.
I am not clued up enough to say that it couldn't trip from neutral in any circs but it definitely would if polarity was reversed and it's a single pole switch - you put live to earth and you get a big short until something trips.
Check the plug, any extension involved, if they are OK suspect the toaster's internal wiring.
Disclaimer - I am not real electrician.
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>>
>>
>> Disclaimer - I am not real electrician.
>>
You're joking!!!
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>> Why would elements be live in circs above?
They are not, not till you push down the lever. However, there are still plenty of live things inside. and its a pretty open unprotected world down there. Wriggly worm USB cable found one them. Crude simple things toasters.
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Lady Duncan complains (not unusual for her) about the quality of the toast that is produced in the, er, toaster.
Can anyone recommend a good long slot, two slot toaster? Staff bought a new one from Argos some time ago and she hasn't stopped moaning about it ever since.
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>> Can anyone recommend a good long slot, two slot toaster?
You need to spend big money (in toaster terms) on a Dualit. Not one of the cheap ones mind, they are just regular toasters overpriced. We are talking 150 quidlets plus for a Dualit Classic.
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>>
>>
>>
>> You need to spend big money (in toaster terms) on a Dualit. Not one of
>> the cheap ones mind, they are just regular toasters overpriced. We are talking 150 quidlets
>> plus for a Dualit Classic.
>>
Do these things actually make better toast? I've seen kettles for £250 and they do nothing a cheapo from Tescos can't do.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Mon 26 Oct 26 at 18:32
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I've seen kettles for £250 and they do nothing a cheapo from Tescos can't do.
Again, Nice glass kettle from "George" last time was £19.99. we can see the water level, so just put in enough..
A mate fills his to the max...
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"we can see the water"
And the limescale?
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>> Can anyone recommend a good long slot, two slot toaster?
I'm sure something will pop up.
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>> >> Can anyone recommend a good long slot, two slot toaster?
>>
>> I'm sure something will pop up.
I am browned off waiting.
Last edited by: Duncan on Fri 30 Oct 26 at 22:12
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>> >>
>>
>> I am browned off waiting.
>>
Crumbs!
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I’m sure something will pop up
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Still seems to be working OK although I can't see where there's an accessible connection that would be permanently live.
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>> Still seems to be working OK although I can't see where there's an accessible connection
>> that would be permanently live.
Take it apart and you quickly will.
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I’d be buying a new toaster. They’r e not expensive.
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>> I’d be buying a new toaster. They’r e not expensive.
>>
You reckon his toaster's toast?
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>> I’d be buying a new toaster. They’r e not expensive.
Considering that. I think we've had it a while.
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We always switch every appliance off at the mains without fail.
Any work done is with power off.
Toaster (current) is a 4 year old "George" by ASDA bought in a sale when the other one decided to be stroppy.
It's a 4 slice dual zone jobby for about £16 at the time. Lots of settings and does the job.
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>> We always switch every appliance off at the mains without fail.
>>
>> Any work done is with power off.
If we'd been doing any work on, or trying to ease a jammed slot, it would have been off and unplugged.
The lead that tripped it was being moved and was dropped.
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If you haven't got one, get a socket tester and check the socket polarity.
I don't buy the idea that wiggly cable could easily find a live unless it's a dodgy toaster. Not impossible maybe.
Dualits are switched by the timer not by the uppy downy mech.
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> don't buy the idea that wiggly cable could easily find a live unless it's a dodgy toaster.
I suggest you take your Dualit apart and see all the places a springing around USB cable can short out, even with the timer off and the slot up.
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Any work done is with power off.
If we'd been doing any work on, or trying to ease a jammed slot, it would have been off and unplugged.
If it's not in use it should be switched off at the plug socket.
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Not something which I see as important, is it a risk-averse thing?
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>..is it a risk-averse thing?
If you don't switch off at the socket electrons can leak from around the plug pins. That's why sockets have a shutter that closes over the L and N holes when the plug is removed.
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Oh OK, I'll put a saucer under it...
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That should catch the earth as well!
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Nah that's what the meek inherit
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>> If you don't switch off at the socket electrons can leak from around the plug pins. That's why sockets have a shutter that closes over the L and N holes when the plug is removed. >>
LOL .... I know some non-techs used to imagine that, but little plastic shutters don't contain electrons either.
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Reminds me of the early days of hard drives on ICL mainframe computers. EDS8s (all of 8MB) were somewhat prone to head-crashes, partly due to theire exchangeable design.
After a particularly fraught spell of the same coinciding with short deadlines we eventually convinced "management" that we'd discovered the cause.
"We'd been putting most of the data on one segment of the disc, and the weight of the bits there had sent the platter out of balance, inducing the head crash".
Much to our amusement, that was believed for a good few months.
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>> We always switch every appliance off at the mains without fail. Any work done is with power off. >>
I'm just wondering what a USB charge lead was doing anywhere near a live toaster ... :-)
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>> Mrs B tidying stuff and drops a short USB charging lead into toaster.
>> Loud bang and CB for downstairs sockets trips.
Was an Apple Lightning lead :)
I'll get me coat.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 26 Oct 26 at 13:06
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toaster in our new rental had non working central elements.
Replaced same day by letting agent but replacement only accepts sliced bread. Consequently we cannot put in our day old baguettes to make morning tostadas…old bread, toasted, rub in fresh garlic clove, top with freshly mashed tomato.
I like that breakfast, plus toast with local honey.
And Yorkshire Tea
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>> And Yorkshire Tea
Nope.
Which? says:-
Best Buy & Great Value: Sainsbury’s Red Label – 75%
£1.40 for 80 bags (56p per 100g, 2p per tea bag)
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Nothing but pure Assam tea for breakfast here.
I don't care what the cost per teabag is.
Last edited by: James Loveless on Tue 27 Oct 26 at 08:37
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>> Nothing but pure Assam tea for breakfast here. >>
You have to believe what it says on the label. Are you certain your tea is from Assam ? They grow tea in Cornwall these days.
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TEABAG!!
Where's Duncan?
8o)
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>> TEABAG!!
>>
>> Where's Duncan?
Put your head between your knees, or something and breathe s l o w l y. Try not to worry, I am never very far away.
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>> Nothing but pure Assam tea for breakfast here.
>>
I assume you do not use boiling water for your tea.
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>> Best Buy & Great Value: Sainsbury’s Red Label – 75%
>> £1.40 for 80 bags (56p per 100g, 2p per tea bag)
VFM no doubt excellent but Yorkshire is better for colour and flavour.
And of course it's from God's own county.
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“And of course it's from God's own county.“
India?
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>> “And of course it's from God's own county.“
>>
>> India?
Yorkshire tea is grown between the Nidd and Wharfe adjacent to the mines where Yorkshire Mixture is extracted.
As any fule kno.
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>> Loud bang and CB for downstairs sockets trips.
Closer examination discloses the USB lead and adaptor was blown with blackening around live pin on the socket. Need to dismantle and check socket wiring too.
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Just use your caravanning socket tester?
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>> Just use your caravanning socket tester?
Done that and it shows 2 greens as expected. I think it shorted live to earth; slightly concerned about thermal damage to insulation.
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>> Done that and it shows 2 greens as expected. I think it shorted live to
>> earth; slightly concerned about thermal damage to insulation.
Dont be, your circuit brekaer is much faster than heating up your insulation.
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>> Dont be, your circuit brekaer is much faster than heating up your insulation.
95% confidence you're right but I'll have the faceplate off in the morning.
Actually, replacing the faceplate with one incorporating USB sockets would be a gain...
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We put 78 double sockets in this house when we built it and it still isn't enough! I considered having some with the USB's but I wasn't confident of the quality of the chargers - power, reliability, obsolescence etc. and just adding electronics to something which is simple, essentially mechanical, and robust.
I suppose one in a key location could be worth trying.
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Big Clive recommends against them, as if the charging part catches alight (apparently not that uncommon) you are screwed. Whereas a normal plug in charger with the same problem can just be removed from the socket if it overheats.
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It's a wise precaution to at least check the wiring to the socket. Personally, for the cost of a new socket, I'd be replacing it for peace of mind that contact surfaces don't have arc damage which can cause slightly higher resistance and therefore heat especially if it's quite old.
I have sockets with USB scattered in convenient places around the house (bedside, some countertops and living room etc.) I think they're all 2A max but are very handy for our Hive hub, Tapo smart hub, USB radio and top up charging for phones and fondle slabs.
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Presumably to be eventually updated to type C
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Well, they're all Type A at the moment which suits me fine because they're physically sturdier than Type C. At some point though I expect manufacturers will move to Type C only so there won't be any choice if one fails.
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Mains wiring behind sockets can loosen over time which for heavy duty appliances can cause arcing and burning.
Shamefully AI Overview:
Terminal Screw Loosening: Inside the socket, copper wires are held in small brass terminals by screws. Thermal expansion and contraction from electrical load can cause these clamping screws to slacken slightly, creating a loose connection.
Arcing and Overheating: When a wire is loose, the contact area for the electricity shrinks, increasing electrical resistance. This generates intense heat, can melt the plastic faceplate or cable insulation, and causes arcing (tiny electrical sparks) that pose a serious fire hazard.
If you ever fit a faceplate and tighten the screws, leave it for a while when and when you return you can find that the clamping screws can be turned a little further. I think that this is the copper wire slowly compressing. Probably why sparkys now have torque screwdrivers.
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The above describes resistive heating,which a forensic investigator concluded had caused outhouse fire.
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I have a pair of white 2 gang sockets, one garage and one kitchen. Both have the same fault, only one socket on each works. In spite of a good electrical trade shop a mile or so away, I ordered two replacements off Amazon, I didn't have time to go. they came yesterday. I'll be interested to see the innards of the faulty ones !
Ted
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If there is blackening around the socket holes something has vaporised, either at the plug/adapter pins or inside the socket. I'd inspect and unless it's obvious junk the pair of 'em.
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>> If there is blackening around the socket holes something has vaporised, either at the plug/adapter
>> pins or inside the socket. I'd inspect and unless it's obvious junk the pair of
>> 'em.
Plug is one of those moulded on ones with no means of accessing the contacts.
Socket is scheduled for examination later today.
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I came across something I had never heard of a couple of weeks ago. My son gave me one of those stupidly expensive Dyson Fan/Heaters.
It had a burnt plug on the end which he said he had changed after it happened the first time and before it happened again!
On removing the plug, I found the polarity was wrong, with the blue wire to the live. There is no earth wire. But that should not have stopped it working. I cut the burnt cable off and started stripping the lead to fit a new plug. The wire inside the undamaged insulation was black. On reflection I probably didn't cut enough off so I'll refit it before I try it out (I suspended operations because I had to order a new remote control).
Apparently this phenomenon is "black wire syndrome" and the copper sulphide formed by the reaction is non-conductive and causes resistive heating - never seen it before.
I told you I'm not a real electrician.
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>> Apparently this phenomenon is "black wire syndrome" and the copper sulphide formed by the reaction
>> is non-conductive and causes resistive heating - never seen it before.
>>
>> I told you I'm not a real electrician.
Previous house had no working means for the gas heating - warm air - to provide domestic hot water.
Immersion heater on E7 did the job well enough.
However the supply to the immersion suffered from wiring degradation very similar to what you describe there.
Different voltage and current type but my 2.0HDi Xantia had similar degradation in the bit of its wiring harness linking battery, alternator and starter. Common enough to be a 'feature' of the model apparently.
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Reversing the polarity of live and neutral carries a significant risk.
Normally the live wire carries the current and the neutral goes to earth to make the circuit. If the wires are reversed, the on/off switch operates on the neutral wire only leaving all the internal compoents live. Wired correctly the on/off switch isolates the appliance completely.
The neutral is different to the earth wire function - the earth wire is connected to any exposed metal parts and internal metal frames to ensure the circuit is broken if there is an earth fault making the metal parts live. Not needed on some items with plastic only.
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>> Normally the live wire carries the current and the neutral goes to earth to make
>> the circuit.
???
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>> >> Normally the live wire carries the current and the neutral goes to earth to
>> make
>> >> the circuit.
>>
>> ???
Not technically correct but a reasonable analogy for a layman?
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If you substitute voltage for current it's more reasonable.
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>> If you substitute voltage for current it's more reasonable.
In my house the voltage is across the live and neutral (or in the case of one light, across the switched live and earth. Worked perfectly well said one electrician ;>), but now corrected).
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>> Normally the live wire carries the current and the neutral goes to earth to make the circuit.>>
>> Not technically correct but a reasonable analogy for a layman? >>
If we are getting semantic, I would say the live wire supplies a voltage (as far as the first switch), and if there is a circuit it also carries a current - as does the whole circuit, of course .... :-)
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>> 95% confidence you're right but I'll have the faceplate off in the morning.
Faceplate off today and all clear.
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The ignorance of folk about electricity has never ceased to amaze me. One guy I worked with dropped a metal tool across the terminals of a car battery and was thereafter convinced that if you held a battery terminal in one hand, a spanner in the other that you touched to the other battery terminal, then the current would be enough to kill you!
Playing a friendly game of cricket, the batsman skyed the ball which hit an overhead power line. A fielder standing directly underneath refused to catch it because he thought he'd get an electric shock!
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I'm pretty wary myself. It's one of those lethal things that you can't see.
My grandfather was born when electric in the house was a novelty but it didn't stop him doing his own wiring. His method of checking whether something was live was to touch it. He survived however. Presumably he knew not to stand in a puddle while doing it.
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Toaster Trouble - tyrednemotional
