Our existing central heating controls are a bit eccentric. The main control is a programmable thermostat in the hall. The other controls, near the boiler, were wired by the original plumber. Two separate trusted heating engineers have told me they are safe and work, after a fashion. However I never could get water and space heating at the same time and the heating guy now says that slight kettling in the boiler is due to the controls not being properly installed and not firing and cutting off in the right order (I paraphrase). Basically the original installer wired it to work rather than to work properly.
The boiler is otherwise fine and still gets the same emissions reading as when it was new.
The heating engineer is not pressurising me, saying I could just live with it if it’s not bothering me, but he says that if I want it do be sorted out properly it would be best not to mess about sorting what is there, which is half a days labour. He recommends fitting a Hive smart controller. He is providing a quote but his off the top guesstimate is supply and fit around £400. There is also a manufacture subscription for the full capabilities but I’d be inclined just to get it in basic, non subscription form.
What experience have people here had with Hive or similar solutions?
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Is it not often the case that a system will do priority HW then rads? A modern weather compensating condensing boiler must presumably prioritise HW using a high boiler temperature then switch to heating with weather compensation at a lower boiler temp?
Even our old non-compensating boiler (gas Rayburn) system didn't seem to do both at once - it seemed to have two motor valves on the same 'bus' but when one opened the other closed. Although I see no reason that it could not do both at once with the right controller except that it would take longer to heat the water.
I should say I know nowt about heating systems. I could never quite work out what the old system was doing.
The heat pump set up we have now definitely only does one at a time. Not least because it heats the HW to 48C and the flow temp on the heating circuits is usually mid 30's.
Sorry, I don't have a HIVE.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 22 Jul 25 at 16:24
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I have hive, in its basic form (ie non subscription) You get a programable thermostat placed somewhere, the control box (near the boiler), and you get a zigbee hub if you want internet access control, you can add thermostatic rad valves
It works well, tho range from thermostat to control box is limited, or it gets flakey. Its easy to use, control of hot water / heating is flexible and provides all you need. You can set holidays for both, turn if on and off from an app on your phone if you are away from home, and it interfaces to Alexa.
The subscription is not useful or needed. The control system will need re-wiring so may fix your issue at the same time.
IMHO its a worthwile and useful system
As for your system install, is it a three way valve, or a two valve system. Three way will always divert heat to water first as its the shorter loop, your hot water should be at 60c.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Jul 25 at 16:45
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I'd assumed any system would either do one or the other, and I'm not sure how a smart thermostat will change that. It'd give you the convenience of being able to switch between water/heating from your armchair I suppose, but is that worth £400?
Much to the Hive community's displeasure, last year Hive did pull the plug on some of their products but not heating controls (at the moment anyway). And on IFTTT. Don't let that put you off though.
btw if it's ordinary Zigbee, and comms is poor, just buy some other mains powered Zigbee device and it will act as a repeater. I said a repeater :-) Plugs are cheap enough £5 - £6, light bulbs even less. on AliExpress, or a bulb. You don't need to use it's smartness.
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>> to switch between water/heating from your armchair I suppose, but is that worth £400?
Yes its worth 400 quid for the convenience & features, and it sounds like his system needs a complete rethink of control anyway.
>> btw if it's ordinary Zigbee,
Its not, its zigbee protocol but hive firmware updated by Hive central.
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Thanks for the feedback. It’s fitted with a three way valve at present. Even if the HW has reached temp it stays “on” until its time is up. By “on” I don’t mean it’s actively heating but it stops the CH. I am pretty sure that the previous set up allowed simultaneous CH and HW and had a setting to do that but maybe it switched between the two thermostatically. It was over 10 years ago so I am not sure.
Anyway I am encouraged by Zero’s experience with Hive. Ours is a medium-sized 1980’s house with all the key bits in reasonable proximity and little of heft between them to block the signals. Provided the price is near the ball park I’ll probably go ahead.
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>> Thanks for the feedback. It’s fitted with a three way valve at present. Even if
>> the HW has reached temp it stays “on” until its time is up. By “on”
>> I don’t mean it’s actively heating but it stops the CH.
If you call Hot water and heat, a three way diverter valve will always divert most thermal energy to HW first because its the shortest loop and has the best water flow - water will heat first, then divert to radiators when HW is fullfilled. You should always be able to call H/W only or Heat only. On pump overrun (call that cooldown phase after call for heat) the valve centres to ensure a flow to disipate heat somewhere from boiler heat exchanger.
Sounds like control needs a complete redesign, and I would the flow checked for blockages.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Jul 25 at 18:41
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I am sure you are right re the pump overrun not being controlled properly and this is causing crud to build up in the heat exchanger, hence the kettling. As you say the whole control set up needs sorting. Today’s heating engineer also serviced my neighbour’s boiler of the same design, installed by the same guy who did mine but a couple of years later. “So his is right?” I asked. “Nope, but less wrong” he replied.
I agree I wouldn’t bother if it was just for the marginal convenience but the gradual effect on the system means I don’t want to just leave it.
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Are you in a hard water area? When you take off a rad is it full of black sludge?
Sounds to me like a proper power flush might be a better s£400 spend, or at least do that as well. It made a huge difference to the system here some years back, and I did it myself a couple of years ago (though not quite so well) with a bit if kit from HSS Hore.
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Yes I had the same thought re a flush as well as sorting the controls. It’s years since it was last done but it has been drained and refilled about five years ago, including inhibitors.
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Presume this has a separate DHW tank? Does the current programmable stat have heating and hot water channels? What are the controls at the boiler? If the stat is 2 channel - and the wiring exists between it and the boiler - it should be possible to re-wire it to work properly on the current controls. Using a single 3 way valve and controller is a very standard arrangement, look up Y plan wiring schematic. The 3 way valve should be able to do DHW or heating or both - my guess is the controls are somewhat overlapping and one is taking priority and winding the valve right over to DHW position and holding it there rather than allowing it to move to the heating only position once the HW stat is satisfied (or there is no stat / it's not wired / or the valve is broken / it's not actually a 3 position valve). Most plumbers are not electricians and don't understand what they are doing....!
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Richard thanks I think your steer on priorities is probably right. Both of the guys who have looked at it seem to know their stuff and one is a family friend. They both agree that, as installed, it’s working after a fashion but it’s not right. Its not just a case of a quick fix but they could get it working properly in a few hours.
Both are quoting similar ballpark remedial costs but one has suggested that it would be just as well to replace what is there with the Hive system, hence my query.
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Just to update this saga. The heating engineer installed the Hive a couple of weeks ago. He found even more issues with the previous installation.
The previous guy had used more wires and connections than necessary (something like twice as many) and omitted others. I am not a techie but (paraphrasing) it meant controls were indeed duplicating or working against one another. Hence our previous issues. Not helped by the control valve being wrongly plumbed in. He said something about it being the wrong way round.
You might question if this new guy was out to talk it into it a bigger job but he stuck to his estimate despite the horlicks he found it to be. He did a power flush, provided and fitted a new filter unit, provided and set up the Hive and did a full boiler control reset for the same price as BG would have been for the flush alone.
As for the Hive itself, I like it. It gives us the ability to control heating and water via the in-hall thermostat or via our phones. Setting up Mrs A as a user took multiple attempts but that’s probably down to our not having a handy teenager to consult. We got there and in operation it’s far more intuitive to set and adjust than the previous unit which was modern, but clunky to set.
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Yeah I like Hive heating. Its clever enough, but not over the top.
I never set up SWMBO as a second user on anything, too many tech support issues further down the line.
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We have Hive here. Two controlers (one for each zone - large bungalow) we had them installed after we moved in replacing old school Honeywell items. We had Google Nest at our old place, I feel the Nest was a better system to be honest, purely a better front end for me...but...ea ch to his own though. We've STC here since last Saturday and we've had an offer accepted on a house. It has a very exotic controller...more later
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>> We've STC here
>> since last Saturday and we've had an offer accepted on a house.
How much stamp duty have you paid over the years? More than Farage, I bet!
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>> We've STC here since last Saturday.
Where are you off to now?
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Couple of miles down the road, near the Tweedmill emporium.
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Blimey, number of times you have moved I would have thought a motorhome would be better.
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Even more than dog? I know he moves around a fair bit.
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8 owses in Godforsaken Cornwall (orf again next year)
3 owses in Engerland.
An apartamento in Tenerife.
4 council flats in sowf lunden
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4 houses in 40 years.
1 rental in London
1 owned in Watford
2 owned in Northants.
Still in second after 27 years.
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Just about beat that
4 houses in 53 years
1 maisonette in Brentwood
3 houses in Norfolk
Last one living in for 32 years
Might downsize but there again just redecorated the lounge
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Three houses in 55 years.
1. Two up, two down terrace - five years
2. Three bed semi twenty miles away when my job changed - forty six years
3. Three bed bungalow four years, a mile from last place because my knees are going and SWMBO's health. We wanted to keep the convenience of being near bus routes, shops and surgery in a town with good transport links (train station). I told the kids it'll save someone the effort of carrying a coffin down the stairs.
There's a large McCarthy & Stone complex at the end of the road, so we'll probably only need a wheelbarrow for the next move!
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>> Yeah I like Hive heating. Its clever enough, but not over the top.
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>> I never set up SWMBO as a second user on anything, too many tech support
>> issues further down the line.
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Good policy. I find the less Mrs O'Reliant understands about the thermostat the lower the heating bills.
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Two Maisonettes and two houses in 43 years. Manor Park and Seven Kings, Hornchurch and for the last 24 years Pembrokeshire. My next move will be either a care home or cemetery.
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>> My next move will be either a care home or cemetery.
Ours too probably, though nearer the kids in Liverpool/NE Wales might be an option.
Bit of me regrets not pulling up my, realistically shallow, roots here and not going 'home' to the West Riding when the London job ended in 2013.
Or even being more adventurous and moving to the Western Isles.
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>> >>
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>> Ours too probably, though nearer the kids in Liverpool/NE Wales might be an option.
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>>
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The thought of going through moving again would fill me with dread. Short of death or incapacity it would take a lottery win to get me moving house. Then we could ditch all our possessions or leave them behind with all brand new replacements in the new place.
I can dream. Mind you, five winners in the ITV7 the weekend, another two and I'd have had 100k.
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>> The thought of going through moving again would fill me with dread. Short of death
>> or incapacity it would take a lottery win to get me moving house.
Same, sort of.
But Mrs B's health now is behind mine. Away this weekend, for example, in a hotel room on the second floor, she was wheezing like a Grampus on stairs I can do two at a time.
I'm ready to take our Grandson up Catbells; beyond her I'm afraid.
While the fit as a fiddle today, broken in bits tomorrow thing, and more widows than widowers stat is very real right now it's more likely I'll be on my own than her. At which point being the best part of 3 hours from 'the kids' is an issue.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 16 Sep 25 at 21:39
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"being the best part of 3 hours from 'the kids' is an issue."
Yeah, that is a bit close for comfort isn't it? :-0
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Mobility in old age has to be worked on, although luck good/bad comes into it too of course.
We're both fit & active at 73 years young. Neither us visit the doc, although wifey had Covid jabs.
We walk 6 times per week + I lift weights 3 times per week and Ann 'plays' with her bands (stretchy things)
My sister on the other hand is almost immobile at age 78, has been in orsepiddle for the last 3 weeks, and now requires a care package put in place.
As my ole mum used to say "No one knows what's around the corner".
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>> Mobility in old age has to be worked on, although luck good/bad comes into it
>> too of course.
I need to exercise more. While I had an office to go to I used the bike but since WfH became 100% I've dropped that.
Walking around Le Treport on Saturday. Mrs B's smartwatch said we did 14,000 steps though I suspect mine were fewer as I've a longer stride.
Was a bit stiff/shin splints on Sunday/Monday.
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>> I need to exercise more. While I had an office to go to I used
>> the bike but since WfH became 100% I've dropped that.
>> Walking around Le Treport on Saturday. Mrs B's smartwatch said we did 14,000 steps though
>> I suspect mine were fewer as I've a longer stride.
>> Was a bit stiff/shin splints on Sunday/Monday.
My youger goldie is now training for agility. No idea why at the age of 71 I have decided to do a sport where I have to run around a lot.
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I may have mentioned that I covered the 140 mile North Wales Pilgrim path - it took a while, but only doing 6 to 10 miles a day (albeit difficult terrain) over a 3 year period with lenghty gaps due to weather, life events and work stuff. The last period was most difficult (from Llanberis to Aberdaron) the very last four stages being very tough, height of the heatwaves saw us on the Llŷn northen coastal path - a thing of horror ! Bad choice of sock (nasty nylon) the last 8 mile led me to my first ever blister ! One toe was badly infected...but I managed it and then some from Porthor to Aberdaron the next day. I didn't cough to my walking partner the extent of the bad toe in particular until we got home. What occures to me was how long the toe injury took to repair (nail dropped off a couple of weeks ago revealing a new fresh one. I've carried a knee injury for a long time, but this was actually ok as I wore support. Apart from that there were no issues, for a 66 year old I felt quite chipper. But it has highlighted how slowly I now fix myself these days and has made me pondor, I've reduced my walkking since the end of the Path, but I'm slowly getting back on top of the dog-walking. I choose proper socks and footwear.
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Bit older than you… leaving the NW Picos Sunday after 12 days as the weather is deteriorating. Up n down mountains most days, although today and tomorrow when it’s 30C + are beach days at Ribadesella, a 35 minute drive north from Soto de Cangas. Lightweight trail shoes are the answer, Brooks or Hoka, with lots of cushioning to absorb the impact of hard rocky paths.
High wool content socks…wet feet don’t bother me as generated heat dries out the socks. I never use footwear with so called waterproof membranes. Leather, properly treated and looked after, is waterproof. Up to a point. Only worn by me in snow & ice.
Happy trails
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I think I am older than most/all(?) on here.
I find it is quite frighteningly marked the deterioration in fitness, the increased liability to injury and slower recovery from injury or some other change in fitness or health.
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Dunno why I posted that on a thread about central heating.
Hey ho, another bit of deterioration, I suppose...
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Easy mistake. You only have to start reading about the flow being reduced to a scorching hot dribble and draw the wrong conclusion.
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Hive central heating control - Manatee
