| Non-motoring > Trump | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: CGNorwich | Replies: 202 |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 03:19
Trump - CGNorwich
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Reports in the press this morning that trump is to be offered a second Royal Visit to this country. I do hope this is not true. Sucking up to this odious creep just demeans this country and achieves nothing. Can no one stand up and call him out for what he is.? Have we really sunk this low? |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 08:31
Trump - James Loveless
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I have nothing but contempt for this appalling individual and for the naivety of the US electorate, but the fact remains that he and his bunch of unqualified, inexperienced officials will wield huge influence in the world. Sadly, therefore, we must do business with this criminal, holding our noses in the process.
Last edited by: James Loveless on Sat 28 Dec 24 at 08:33
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:09
Trump - maltrap
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I don’t know if he can,but I suspect he will try to get the presidency on a permanent basis, For either himself or one of his cronies or family,lord help us. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 18:56
Trump - R.P.
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we must do business with this criminal, holding our noses in the process. Like we've always done |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 08:43
Trump - Zero
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| Relax, so we have picked up a turd on our shoes, might as well try and polish it a bit. It will be cleaned off in 4 years. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 11:09
Trump - zippy
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Lets be honest, we've had worse here. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:06
Trump - Zero
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| really? we have voted in some doozies, but Worse than Trump? |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:14
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> really? we have voted in some doozies, but Worse than Trump? Boris and Truss are as near as we get but Bojo while undoubtedly a narcissist was less malevolent. Truss is an open question as she screwed up from the get go and our system meant getting her out was pretty quick. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:24
Trump - Zero
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| Truss was simply out of her depth, |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:38
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> Truss was simply out of her depth, Sure, but reading Anthony Seldon's book on her she was showing other characteristics too. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:25
Trump - zippy
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>> really? we have voted in some doozies, but Worse than Trump? >> I meant heads of state from murderous regimes such as Saudi Arabia, China etc. visiting us officially. Last edited by: zippy on Sat 28 Dec 24 at 12:26
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:41
Trump - Zero
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>> I meant heads of state from murderous regimes such as Saudi Arabia, China etc. visiting >> us officially. Ah right, my misunderstoodment. Robert Mugabe must be top of the list. makes Trumpo look benevolent. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 28 Dec 24 at 12:42
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 12:49
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> Robert Mugabe must be top of the list. makes Trumpo look benevolent. Ceaușescu took the biscuit I think but there's more to it than benevolence v brutality. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 14:52
Trump - Terry
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Trump will be one of the 5 most important and influential people on the planet - obvious competitors for top spot may include Xi Jinping and Elon Musk + ???? He may actually be effective as a leader, despite a flawed personality - the US public obviously think so!. The global community works when leaders subordinate personal opinion in pursuit of the achievable. Despite his flaws, it would be madness to give him the cold shoulder politically. Perhaps the Democrats were instrumental in his electoral success by running an obviously failing Joe Biden and making a mess of their campaign. The UK has a choice - grin and bear it for 4 years, or slide steadily down the global importance league - there will be many who will happily play to his narcissistic tendencies. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 15:09
Trump - Rudedog
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As they say "a day is a long time in politics'... 4 years will be an eternity! |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 22:40
Trump - bathtub tom
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>> As they say "a day is a long time in politics'... 4 years will be >> an eternity! Gawd! I've just given SWMBO a new eternity ring as a Christmas present (the previous no longer fitted and couldn't be adjusted). Have I signed up for two eternities? |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 23:19
Trump - zippy
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>> >> Have I signed up for two eternities? >> Yes! |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 09:11
Trump - tyrednemotional
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| ....but don't panic; it'll feel exactly the same as one. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 21:02
Trump - CGNorwich
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"The UK has a choice - grin and bear it for 4 years, or slide steadily down the global importance league - there will be many who will happily play to his narcissistic tendencies." D you really tnink that sucking up to Trump will have any effect on Britain's standing in the world? Rather the opposite I would have thought. And why are we so obsessed with our "Global importance" anyway? I would have thought living in a country that has a clear idea of what it believes to be right and wrong and is not afraid to say so is preferable to toadying to this most unpleasant man in the vain hope that a few crumbs drop form his table. Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 28 Dec 24 at 21:02
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 21:15
Trump - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> >> D you really tnink that sucking up to Trump will have any effect on Britain's >> standing in the world? Rather the opposite I would have thought. And why are we >> so obsessed with our "Global importance" anyway? >> >> It isn't "Sucking up", but maintaining a relationship with the worlds largest superpower and one of our most important allies. Who America elects as there president is none of our business, we have to be pragmatic and just get on with it, just as we do in our dealings with every other country, many of whose leaders make Trump look like an exceptionally woke liberal. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 21:30
Trump - CGNorwich
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"t isn't "Sucking up", but maintaining a relationship with the worlds largest superpower and one of our most important allies. Who America elects as there president is none of our business, we have to be pragmatic and just get on with it, just as we do in our dealings with every other country, many of whose leaders make Trump look like an exceptionally woke liberal." I agree that we have to get on wtht it. We have no other choice. We need to maintain a civilised and civilised relationship wiht the United states as we do with all countries. What we don't have to do do is offer a second state visit, the first time this will have ever happened, to this deplorable man to salve his ego and cravenly hope that he will somehow bestow favours upon us in recognition. He won't. Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 28 Dec 24 at 21:31
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 21:57
Trump - Zero
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Diplomacy is a fine art, an old art, one of the oldest in the first world. It's a long game, its a two faced game, played with rules honed over many years. A game played when Americans still lived in Teepees and followed the Bison. It's a game Trump has no idea about. There is a very good reason the Commonwealth & Foreign office back entrance faces no 10, and the MOD is round the corner and down the street. The Royal family is a major tool in the game, always has been, always will be. Trump is too narcisistic and vain to realise he is being grifted, get it done early, 4 years will be less painful for us than some in his sights because of it. The long game, diplomacy. Only Us and the French can do it well. One of the reasons we despise and admire each other. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 28 Dec 24 at 21:59
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 22:21
Trump - CGNorwich
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Only Us and the French can do it well. One of the reasons we despise and admire each other. Yes the first World War was triumph for French and British Diplomacy, as was the Suez crisis come to that. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 22:17
Trump - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> >> What we don't have to do do is offer a second state visit, the first >> time this will have ever happened, to this deplorable man to salve his ego and >> cravenly hope that he will somehow bestow favours upon us in recognition. He won't. >> It is the norm for the newly elected president of the US to be offered a state visit. And despite having held the office before that is exactly what he is, having spent a term out of power. We have not faced this situation before so there is no precedent, the only other US leader who returned to power after losing office was Grover Cleveland and that was in 1892. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 22:36
Trump - CGNorwich
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"It is the norm for the newly elected president of the US to be offered a state visit. " Absolutely it is not. There have only been three State Visits by US presidents since the late Queen's accession Namely: George W Bush 2003 Barack Obama 2011 Trump 2019 Is Trump really deserving of two? |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 23:23
Trump - zippy
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>> >> Is Trump really deserving of two? >> No, but his ego is, IYSWIM. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 10:30
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> There have only been three State Visits by US presidents since the late Queen's accession >> >> Namely: >> >> George W Bush 2003 >> Barack Obama 2011 >> Trump 2019 According to the US Reagan had a state visit in 1982. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon and Carter all had visits to the UK, including meeting the Queen. Why those are 'informal' rather than being 'State' is, I suspect, a matter of history and protocol. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 11:12
Trump - CGNorwich
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Not all visits by Heads of State are deemed to be State Visits. Reagan certainly visited but was not accorded this honour. Technically a State Visit will include a Royal banquet. Let’s just leave him to his Big Mac, fries and ketchup at Mar a Lago. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 11:25
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> Not all visits by Heads of State are deemed to be State Visits. Reagan certainly >> visited but was not accorded this honour. Technically a State Visit will include a Royal >> banquet. Some records differ: www.rct.uk/collection/2004363/president-ronald-reagan-visits-britain-on-state-visit-1982 www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/video/state-visit-united-kingdom-president-reagan-prime-minister-margaret-thatcher-enter-0 Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 29 Dec 24 at 11:26
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 17:59
Trump - CGNorwich
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Some records differ: only the incorrect ones :-) Here is the listing of Presidential visits published by the United States Embassy to the UK. uk.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/visits-of-presidents-of-the-united-states-to-the-united-kingdom/ You will see that only the three visits I mentined are described as State visits. Reagan's visit was simply a meeting. And here is the the Royal website which confirms the same thing. www.royal.uk/state-visit-president-united-states-america-and-mrs-trump I think they should know who they had to dinner! |
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New Mon 30 Dec 24 07:42
Trump - Biggles
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They are Americans, therefore easily confused. history.state.gov/departmenthistory/travels/president/reagan-ronald |
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New Mon 30 Dec 24 11:22
Trump - Terry
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>> They are Americans, therefore easily confused. >> history.state.gov/departmenthistory/travels/president/reagan-ronald >> It is not clear what constitutes a "State Visit". Quick Google provides no explicit definition. - meeting the King/Queen as Head of State seems to be a given - the invitation can be from either K/Q or PM - or someone acting on their instructions - they may stay in a royal residence - or may not - a state banquet is not an essential part of a state visit - but adds to the evidence The "Royal" website puts the Royal family at the centre of events - involved in making the invitation, welcoming, banquet etc etc. No wonder lists of state visits differ - invitees want to "big up" the occasion - good for the ego and public perceptions, the Royals want to make it "exclusive" to maximise diplomatic value. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 02:31
Trump - Terry
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>> D you really tnink that sucking up to Trump will have any effect on Britain's >> standing in the world? Rather the opposite I would have thought. There is a fundamental difference between "sucking up" and engaging with courtesy and respect. Failure may compromise any possible trade deals, NATO relationships, support for other policies the UK may choose to pursue. >>And why are we so obsessed with our "Global importance" anyway? The UK could continue its inexorable decline to the middle ranking middle income - not necessarily bad but better if it is an explicit policy, not the result of complacency or stupidity. >> I would have thought living in a country that has a clear idea of what >> it believes to be right and wrong and is not afraid to say so is >> preferable to toadying to this most unpleasant man in the vain hope that a few >> crumbs drop form his table., A worthy aspiration but more is achieved through courtesy than courting conflict. Particularly where differences exist, it is better to keep communications lines open, develop a common sense of common purpose, resolve differences, build trust etc etc. It is not "toadying" - it is best practice. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 03:38
Trump - CGNorwich
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“A worthy aspiration but more is achieved through courtesy than courting conflict“ I am nor proposing courting conflict, I am however suggesting that we do not grant the unique honour of a second state visit to this man. We have not done so for any other US president and have generally retained a good relationship with the country. What makes him so special in you eyes that we should grant him this unique honour? Cosying up to and flattering this man is demeaning to this country and is highly unlikely to bring the rewards you hope for. Trump does not care about the fortunes of U.K. or indeed anyone or anywhere other than himself. I would have thought that that was transparently obvious by now. |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 11:35
Trump - Zero
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>> There is a fundamental difference between "sucking up" and engaging with courtesy and respect. The point is, Trump thinks he is being feted, hugely respected, elevated to the ranks of Royalty. Everyone else realises he is being soft soaped. That is Diplomacy. Wonderfully two faced. Specially when you lump him in the same category with Mugabe, Ceaușescu |
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New Sun 29 Dec 24 14:11
Trump - Fullchat
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It is not "toadying" - it is best practice. I believe it called diplomacy. Unfortunately this current government don't seem to have anyone with the character and personality suitable to bestow the title of Diplomat upon. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 23:21
Trump - zippy
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>> >> Ah right, my misunderstoodment. Your misunderstoodment is totally understood as my post could be seen as ambiguous. ;-D |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 15:39
Trump - Manatee
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The question is, what do we achieve by sticking two fingers up to Trump? Probably better at least to observe the normal civilities. King Charles's job is not to be political, so nothing is lost, not moral ground sacrificed, by him entertaining the Orange One. If our political leaders are to meet him and if they think it is in our interest (or otherwise) to tell him where he is going wrong then they can do so (or not) in private. Scaramucci I think says that whilst he is a nightmare, he can be flattered into changing his behaviour. I'm not sure that he can be coerced by being insulted. |
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New Sat 28 Dec 24 18:43
Trump - martin aston
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Whatever else we might think of the Royals this is where they come into their own. Or at least the late Queen did. They can sail along being “friend” to all while keeping their own opinions to themselves. This works with the general populace too as most think, whatever their political views, that the monarch is on their side. Even republicans gave the Queen a lot of slack. I am ambivalent to many aspects of the monarchy but when it comes to managing our relationships with the oddballs they are a strong card to play. |
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New Fri 10 Jan 25 23:03
Trump - Mapmaker
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I mean, would the world really have been better off with a senile Biden? I’m pretty certain Putin would never have invaded Ukraine had Trump been in the White House. He just wouldn’t have been able to predict the action. And it’s all because Obama backed Hilary Clinton; literally the least electable candidate imaginable. What was he thinking of. And I reckon Musk will get bored before Easter. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 01:13
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> I mean, would the world really have been better off with a senile Biden? Without getting into a debate about Biden's capacity he wasn't the candidate. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 06:58
Trump - Mapmaker
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| No but he was going to be the candidate until the last minute. Desiree’s the Democrat’s chances in my view. In politics you don’t give your opponents an excuse! |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 11:27
Trump - Terry
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The Democrats were forced into selecting an alternative at a late stage when it became abundantly clear publicly Biden was already very obviously failing both physically and mentally. It opened the path for to a Trump victory. The Democrats are responsible for the outcome - foolishly making Biden their candidate when he was evidently incapable of lasting a full term. On a personal level I think Trump unpleasant, but judging POTUS in terms of UK behavioural norms is mistaken. The US and the UK are two nations separated by a common language. There is an obvious attraction to "cowboy" stereotypes of "tell it like it is", "action not words" etc. What we in the UK think is unimportant - the reality is that unless he is shown appropriate respect as the democratically elected leader of a country with a GDP 8 times that of the UK, we will be the losers. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 13:58
Trump - CGNorwich
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“What we in the UK think is unimportant - the reality is that unless he is shown appropriate respect as the democratically elected leader of a country with a GDP 8 times that of the UK, we will be the losers.” There is ever difference between respect for the office and grovelling. Trump shows no respect for this country and our politicians. Our relationship should be formal and polite but no more. If we are talking of respect perhaps we should consider self respect. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 14:20
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> The Democrats were forced into selecting an alternative at a late stage when it became >> abundantly clear publicly Biden was already very obviously failing both physically and mentally. The Democrats should have offered Biden the pistol and whisky solution by late 2023. If they'd had a proper Primary run rather than a coronation they might have done better but then again the polls were so far out that it's anybody's guess. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 16:19
Trump - sooty123
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| The polls weren't really out, biden was in for a drubbing. They ignored it until they couldn't. Stupidity. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 16:51
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> The polls weren't really out, biden was in for a drubbing. They ignored it until >> they couldn't. Stupidity. I agree with the ignored it bit. Am I wrong about the polls up to election day and Harris v Trump? |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 19:13
Trump - sooty123
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>> Am I wrong about the polls up to election day and Harris v Trump? >> The ones i saw showed biden losing badly and then harris losing by a lesser margin. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 20:03
Trump - Zero
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The ones I saw (a composite of all the polls) had Biden badly behind, and a Harris kick to be neck and neck. At the end of the day, illegal immigration and the economy won it for Trump. |
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New Sat 11 Jan 25 16:24
Trump - Mapmaker
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>> No but he was going to be the candidate until the last minute. Desiree’s the >> Democrat’s chances in my view. In politics you don’t give your opponents an excuse! >> I presume I meant ‘destroyed’. Apologies for that. |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 10:18
Trump - Zero
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4mmrr7j8mo The Trump official presidential photo. |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 12:53
Trump - James Loveless
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I saw this yesterday and could not believe my eyes - but then, nothing Trump does should surprise anyone any more. It shows a vaguely menacing, shifty-looking individual with no hint of warmth. It's probably a lot more revealing than he realises. I guess it's meant to be his "power-mode", but someone who has to try this hard is really demonstrating their insecurity. God only knows what he'll get up to, post-inauguration, after we've had all the "alternative facts" and doctored photos about the crowd size. Looking at this guy really makes me sick. |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 13:23
Trump - zippy
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If this were a photo of a parent, one might guess that it was one that didn't spare the rod. There is no ounce of compassion in that image. |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 13:29
Trump - Zero
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I think it's hilarious, it's a pantomime villain poster "Appearing with non gender specific snow white, and the 7 alternately sized non gender specific peoples |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 14:31
Trump - Terry
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As an image it's probably a little more honest than most political portraits. Typically the subject is shown as a smiling, nice to know person, kind to children and pets - almost always a deliberately skewed representation of reality. Trump was elected on the back of an intent to get things done - MAGA. His expression reflects that determination - however repugnant some may find it. |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 14:37
Trump - tyrednemotional
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>> >> Trump was elected on the back of an intent to get >> His expression reflects that determination - however repugnant some may find it. >> |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 14:39
Trump - zippy
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Yep. Son of an immigrant, married to an immigrant, vows to rid the USA of immigrants. You couldn't make it up. (Of course he means the wrong type of immigrants.) |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 16:04
Trump - John Boy
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=272voTjeHy4 |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 19:17
Trump - CGNorwich
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| Its the same photo one as the one on the Sex Offenders Register. |
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New Sat 18 Jan 25 20:14
Trump - sooty123
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www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-launches-own-meme-coin-cryptocurrency/ How about some trump crypto currency? $6bn market capitalisation already in one day from launch. |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 17:45
Trump - smokie
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Renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America? Taking back the Panama canal? Two genders only? Massive repatriation of immigrants (I think illegal). Significant trade tariffs on imported goods. Some fairly extreme stuff on its way in the US if Trump's speech is to be believed... |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 18:46
Trump - Manatee
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I seriously wonder if there is any way back to functioning democracy, now that conversations on social media are curated by the tyrants themselves (noting that both Musk and Zuckerberg now appear to have been captured by Trump.) It's very worrying that 18-24 year-olds appear to be very Trumpy. An age group which historically has tended to left wing views. Of course it's hard to distinguish Trump's actual intentions from what he says. But he is mad, bad and probably dangerous, of that I have no doubt. |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 19:18
Trump - sooty123
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| I think he can write whatever speech he likes, governing and getting laws passed is somewhat harder. |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 19:41
Trump - Terry
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A different perspective - although were I to have had a vote I don't think he would not have been my choice. The west - Europe and the US are in decline. They have simply become sclerotic. On a social level we could decide that this is desirable - less stress, keep everybody happy etc. If so, understandably a Trump victory is a threat to the comfortable and stable. We lack clear leadership, want to pander to all views. Most evident progress since the UK election is establishing countless reviews and enquiries, many of which will not report for several years. Claims of a Labour growth plan have zero credibility. The evidence of public enquiries is equally dire - both Tory and Labour are equally culpable - Post Office, contaminated blood, Iraq, Hillsborough to name but a handful. This is just unacceptable - a waste of public money and opportunity. So the different perspective - Trump is set on making radical changes rapidly. Some I agree with, some I don't. But at least he is a potential mould breaker when the alternative was 4 more years of the completely unremarkable. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 08:43
Trump - Manatee
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The last 4 years have arguably been very successful, using Trump's own favourite measure the stock market. The main failure has been to allow the huge deficit to grow even bigger. Trump actually changed very little 17-20. He is in a stronger position now unless some Republicans suddenly grow backbones. Unremarkable is good, as long as you are doing ok. Lots of Americans aren't,not least because healthcare is a massive issue that Trump is unlikely to fix. I don't know about sclerotic. The US is thoroughly decadent, and we aren't much better. On the subject of pendulums, they can really only swing back if the pendulum is still there. Is it good per se to be a mould breaker? Hitler certainly was. Mussolini made the trains run on time, except that he didn't, he just said he did. Trump, I think, is more Mussolini than Hitler. Driven by vanity rather than ideals. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 08:51
Trump - Zero
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For the life of me, I dont see why we had to have hours and hours of live coverage of his inauguration spread over two main TV channels. At the expense of "the bidding room" as well. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 12:19
Trump - Manatee
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>> For the life of me, I dont see why we had to have hours and >> hours of live coverage of his inauguration spread over two main TV channels. Thankfully I missed it. Somebody has helpfully gleaned the pith of his speech, of which there was just over a minute's worth. www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cn015gq57keo Can a sane man appear to be insane, or does that make him insane anyway? |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 14:20
Trump - zippy
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Didn't he also say America was first to split the atom. That was Ernest Rutherford a New Zealander at the University of Manchester. He also said the USA invented the internet / www which was actually invented by Sir Timothy Berners-Lee, an Englishman at CERN. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 14:36
Trump - Manatee
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>> Didn't he also say ... I only watched the 1m 20s edit I'm afraid. He goes on for hours and most of it rubbish. I did check his statement on the Panama Canal. I could only remember Ferdinand de Lesseps, of course the Americans finished it. I imagine his plan for seizing the canal will be controversial. I wasn't aware the Chinese are running it and apparently nobody else was! |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 20:02
Trump - Terry
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> >> Didn't he also say ... >> >> I only watched the 1m 20s edit I'm afraid. He goes on for hours and >> most of it rubbish. >> >> I did check his statement on the Panama Canal. I could only remember Ferdinand de >> Lesseps, of course the Americans finished it. I imagine his plan for seizing the canal >> will be controversial. I wasn't aware the Chinese are running it and apparently nobody else >> was! That you don't like the message does not make it rubbish. As he arguably holds the most important Office in the world ALL that he utters may have consequences even if you don't agree. The French started the canal in 1881 and gave up in 1889 having achieved little, ran ran out of money, with 20,000 dead. The US took over construction 1904 and completed it in 1914. China apparently have a concession to run the ports at either end of the canal. I understand there are issues over capacity - limited rainfall failing to top up the ponds needed to operate the locks. Whether Trump is justified in his remarks over pricing are difficult to assess - probably have some limited merit. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 20:13
Trump - CGNorwich
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Interesting to compare views on the seizure of the Suez Canal by the France and the UK and the proposed seizure of the Panama Canal by the U.S Eisenhower thought an invasion would be counterproductive and would probably result in the closure of the canal, at least temporarily. He also worried that invasion would be perceived as an act of Western imperialism |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 21:03
Trump - Kevin
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>Interesting to compare views on the seizure of the Suez Canal by the France and the UK and the >proposed seizure of the Panama Canal by the U.S What makes you think he means a military seizure? |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 22:05
Trump - CGNorwich
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| What makes you think he doesn’t? Difficult to see how he can “take back” the territory of a sovereign country without military force or the threat of it. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 09:06
Trump - Kevin
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>What makes you think he doesn’t? I didn't say he doesn't. I asked you why you assume that he does. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 09:10
Trump - CGNorwich
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| As I explained. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 09:52
Trump - tyrednemotional
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| ...he's simply going to rename it "The Puerto Rican Canal".... |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 10:43
Trump - Kevin
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> As I explained. If you'd taken any notice of Trump's past behaviour on the international stage you'll have seen that his opening move is predominantly economic threats. A tactic which I think started with his handling of migrants travelling through Mexico and which also seems to have been successful for him in other areas. I haven't heard of anyone with the c****** to call his bluff in any meaningful sense yet. The US did retain the right in the Carter agreement to intervene militarily to ensure the 'neutrality' of the canal so an invasion might not be entirely unjustified if it can be shown that American shipping is being deliberately disadvantaged. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 20:18
Trump - Manatee
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>> That you don't like the message does not make it rubbish. As he arguably holds >> the most important Office in the world ALL that he utters may have consequences even >> if you don't agree. The fact that much of what he says is rubbish is what makes it rubbish, nothing to do with what I like. The fact that you or someone else might agree with it does not make it non-rubbish. Neither does his position as President make rubbish worth listening to. The man is a lying creep, undeserving of any respect from me, and doesn't mean half of what he says anyway. I'm quite happy for the BBC to select the possibly comprehensible 82 seconds out of his half hour of self aggrandizing drivel on my behalf. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 09:57
Trump - James Loveless
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"That you don't like the message does not make it rubbish. As he arguably holds the most important Office in the world ALL that he utters may have consequences even if you don't agree." In principle, I agree. However, in the case of this individual much that he utters is utter rubbish. For example, at the various recent inaugural events where Trump spoke, he uttered lie after lie. Even his apparent firm commitments have in the past turned out to be meaningless. Last time he promised to remove Obamacare. Never happened. He said he would build a border wall and Mexico would pay for it. The wall was never completed and Mexico hasn't paid a dime. He promised to clear the national debt, but it ballooned. He promised to remove all illegal immigrants (estimated to be more than 11.3 million). Didn't happen. He said he would approve waterboarding, adding that "torture works". He didn't. He promised to get Hillary Clinton locked up and then abandoned the idea. So I would be very wary of believing anything he says. I do agree the rest of the world has to deal with him, but not rely on him. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 10:58
Trump - smokie
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I am no way a Trump supporter but it's too easy to conflate lies with missed or failed targets. It seems to me that all governments are destined to have some successes and some failures. And your own perception of success or failure may depend on where you stand on whatever the policy may be. This link to ChatGPT tells of quite a number of "achievements" during his last term chatgpt.com/share/6790cb06-1500-800c-845b-aca0aa6207b8 - regardless of whether you approve of them her seems to have managed to make a fair bit happen during his time, despite fairly robust public opposition on occasions, and of course a small/non-existent majority in the second half of his term. I will repeat however that I am def not a Trump supporter, and he has been known to outright lie!!! |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 11:16
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> I am no way a Trump supporter but it's too easy to conflate lies with >> missed or failed targets. It seems to me that all governments are destined to have >> some successes and some failures. And your own perception of success or failure may depend >> on where you stand on whatever the policy may be. >> Whatever he did or did not achieve in his first term you only need to listen to the clips from his speeches post inauguration to hear they're peppered with lies. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 11:14
Trump - Kevin
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I've got news for you lot. It may come as a shock so you might want to sit down first. Politicians lie... Including ours... There... I've said it. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 13:14
Trump - James Loveless
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"I've got news for you lot. It may come as a shock so you might want to sit down first. Politicians lie... Including ours... There... I've said it." So Trump is no different from the rest? Trump's lying is off the scale and it seems quite deliberate as a way of throwing people into confusion. Of course, his supporters cherry-pick what he said to suit themselves and/or ignore the basic fact that someone who is prepared to lie on such a collossal scale has a problem with reality. Trump IS different from the others. With other politicians, once you know where they're coming from, you can predict where the lies come from and interpret what they say to get at something like the truth. With Trump, few people have a clue what's going on in his head and he has been careful to surround himself with uneducated and inexperienced people whose only value to him is their loyalty and who will therefore not question anything he says or does. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 13:35
Trump - Manatee
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>> Trump IS different from the others. With other politicians, once you know where they're coming >> from, you can predict where the lies come from and interpret what they say to >> get at something like the truth. With Trump, few people have a clue what's going >> on in his head and Yes... but emulators are appearing. Trump has stretched the window for falsehoods. >>he has been careful to surround himself with uneducated and >> inexperienced people whose only value to him is their loyalty and who will therefore not >> question anything he says or does. One of the worst aspects of Trump. Sensible leaders appoint the best, most capable people they can find/afford. Trump seems to do the opposite, I have no clue as to why. Maybe it's his own insecurity, which is on show all the time. A lot falls on the civil service, as it should, but this time he intends to replace them with loyalists too. That uncapable people damage performance is self evident, but they are also horrible to work for so can't retain the best people under them. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 15:23
Trump - Kevin
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>So Trump is no different from the rest? Nope. Not at his level. >Trump's lying is off the scale... Off what scale? Is there now an acceptable/unacceptable measure of lies that the establishment must stick to? Where would you put the pantomime of claiming that Biden was still compos mentis for the last year or so? >Of course, his supporters cherry-pick what he said to suit themselves and/or ignore >the basic fact that someone who is prepared to lie on such a collossal scale has a >problem with reality. Just like his detractors will cherry-pick and resort to insults. Nothing new. >Trump IS different from the others. With other politicians, once you know where >they're coming from, you can predict where the lies come from and interpret what >they say to get at something like the truth. He is no different to his opposite numbers around the world. Russia, China, the Middle East, Asia, Africa etc. I'm not saying that is good but it is necessary. >With Trump, few people have a clue what's going on in his head and he has been >careful to surround himself with uneducated and inexperienced people whose only >value to him is their loyalty and who will therefore not question anything he says >or does. Good. In his position what education and experience would you be demanding before you appointed someone. If it were me, I'd go for people I trusted and were the most likely to get the job done. And BTW, loyalty does not preclude discussion or dissent. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 16:07
Trump - Zero
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>> > >> Good. In his position what education and experience would you be demanding before you appointed >> someone. If it were me, I'd go for people I trusted and were the most >> likely to get the job done. And BTW, loyalty does not preclude discussion or dissent. In trump world, qualification, education and experience is not what Trump wants, In Trump world loyal acolytes to exclude discussion or dissent is what floats his boat. Trump is not as mad or bad as he plays, its a bit of an act to keep others off balance. The worse thing about a Trump presidency is that he breeds loonies and divisions in the population. That will come to bite him. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 17:59
Trump - Kevin
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>..In Trump world loyal acolytes to exclude discussion or dissent is what floats his boat. The people he's appointed who I've seen before aren't shrinking violets. I don't see the likes of Tom Homan or RFK Jr as yes men. >The worse thing about a Trump presidency is that he breeds loonies and divisions in >the population. That will come to bite him. I'll give you that. Plus he doesn't do subtlety, he's abrasive and that upsets the folks who won't just shrug it off. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 19:48
Trump - Zero
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>> likes of Tom Homan or RFK Jr as yes men. >> RFK jr? Jeez you picked a terrible example there. The blokes a wind sock, he'll point what ever way trump farts, the bloke is multilingual in Yes. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 21:43
Trump - Kevin
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>RFK jr? Jeez you picked a terrible example there. He's a misfit that's for sure but I don't think he's a yes man. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 06:30
Trump - sooty123
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>> >RFK jr? Jeez you picked a terrible example there. >> >> He's a misfit that's for sure but I don't think he's a yes man. >> He comes across as a nodding dog, much like Trump's vp. Tripping over themselves to pretend they like trump. Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 23 Jan 25 at 06:31
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 18:09
Trump - Kevin
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>He also said the USA invented the internet / www which was actually invented by Sir Timothy Berners-Lee,.. The Internet and WWW aren't really synonymous and the former WAS a US invention. The Internet is a collection of defined protocols and standards* that allow intelligent devices to communicate. It evolved out of a project funded by DARPA to transfer information electronically between computers from different manufacturers and in different locations even if they were not connected to the same physical network. The WWW is just an application that uses the Internet to communicate. Also, I'm not sure that Berners-Lee would want to take full credit for 'inventing' the WWW. What he did was solve an internal problem at CERN in sharing documents. I doubt that he realised then what impact his little document sharing app would have once big business learned of it and saw the potential. * Documented in what are called Request For Comments (RFCs). |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 19:30
Trump - Terry
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>> Didn't he also say America was first to split the atom. That was Ernest Rutherford >> a New Zealander at the University of Manchester. >> >> He also said the USA invented the internet / www which was actually invented by >> Sir Timothy Berners-Lee, an Englishman at CERN. I'm not sure what he said - but quite unambiguously the US developed and used the first nuclear weapon, and the US made the internet a reality for all. They may lack the brains to research and innovate, but they sure as hell know better than just about everyone how to turn science into something useful. |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 19:19
Trump - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> Two genders only? Massive repatriation of immigrants (I think illegal). Significant trade tariffs on imported >> goods. >> >> >> Mass repatriation of ILLEGAL immigrants. The majority of the population in any country you care to name would be behind that, and I doubt if multiple gender classifications garner much support either. The reason large parts of the world are swinging towards the right is that they feel their legitimate concerns are being met from professional politicians who have never experienced life outside of that sphere with nothing but a patronising pat on the head, and an accusation of some sort of "Ism" if they don't shut up and listen to those who know best. Why do you think we got Brexit? |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 19:46
Trump - CGNorwich
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“Why do you think we got Brexit? Lies and general ignorance? Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 20 Jan 25 at 19:47
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 21:21
Trump - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> >> Lies and general ignorance? >> Neither side cared too much about the truth, and as for ignorance, is that everybody with a different political view to you? People living on run down estates and doing menial jobs will have an entirely different take on life to you, especially when they hear employers singing the praises of immigrant workers who will work twice as hard for half the money. Not something that will effect a middle class professional, of course. |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 21:47
Trump - CGNorwich
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"Neither side cared too much about the truth" 1) I'm not talking about "sides". The ignorance of the population as a whole when it comes to basic uderstanding of arithmetic, statistics and how the economy works is astounding. That is compounded by an underlying fear in all humans of outsiders or foreigners 2) Because of the above it is easy for politiicans using the media both traditional and social to distort facts, lie, and manipulate large sections of the popuation to gain power and influence. That is why Americans have Trump. That is why we had Brexit Boris Johnson and Liz Truss This why the French have Marine Le Pen That is why the Germans have the AFD |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 22:46
Trump - Kevin
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RO'R explained exactly why we have all those things. It was entirely predictable and you are making the same mistake. Our most serious question now is how far the pendulum is going to swing in the other direction. |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 19:46
Trump - Terry
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>> Mass repatriation of ILLEGAL immigrants. The majority of the population in any country you care >> to name would be behind that, and I doubt if multiple gender classifications garner much >> support either. >> >> The reason large parts of the world are swinging towards the right is that they >> feel their legitimate concerns are being met from professional politicians who have never experienced life >> outside of that sphere with nothing but a patronising pat on the head, and an >> accusation of some sort of "Ism" if they don't shut up and listen to those >> who know best. >> >> Why do you think we got Brexit? Agree totally |
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New Mon 20 Jan 25 21:18
Trump - Rudedog
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Interesting to see where the Trump-Musk relationship will go with Trump shouting 'drill, drill, drill' implying an increase in oil production to maybe 'fuel' the resurrection of the US ICE car industry and how that will sit with the Tesla owner hoping for the exact opposite. Also a prediction - Trump and wife have just lunched their own crypto currency, how long before he dictates that 'something' within Government has to be bought/sold only using some form of crypto? |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 00:45
Trump - Crypto - zippy
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Seen somewhere that an organisation he owns has made $43billion on paper already from these $Trump coins! Though if they sold their holding, the value would likely plummet. Last edited by: zippy on Tue 21 Jan 25 at 00:46
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 08:01
Trump - Crypto - Rudedog
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Did he? or didn't he? www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cpdxzjw9p47o He always sounds a bit out of it when he talks to me. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 12:08
Trump - Crypto - Manatee
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>> Seen somewhere that an organisation he owns has made $43billion on paper already from these >> $Trump coins! >> >> Though if they sold their holding, the value would likely plummet. Does this show anything except what an emperor's clothes job cryptocurrency is? (Yes I know that by extension fiat currency is 'worse' but it does seem to be reasonably predictable in a stable economy). Apparently $TRUMP200 million has been created, and there are to be a further 800 million $TRUMPs issued over the next 3 years. A bizarre situation in which the PotUS 'prints' some tokens, and people can buy them from him, thereby putting money in his bank account? And what they get for their money is...a token. Is this legal? In any way ethical? Does anyone here understand this? How is it different from me creating some secure digital tokens and selling them? I do understand that they are only worth the trust people put in them, and like GBP in that respect. But how many cryptocurrencies will the world support? And it's bizarre that they basically circulate and are traded almost only for owners to try and make pots of government-issued money. Shirley, until they are principally used to buy and sell actual stuff, their value is not established at all? Yes a lot of money has been made and none of it by me. People also got rich buying South Sea stock. How is this different? |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 14:34
Trump - Crypto - zippy
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>> Is this legal? In any way ethical? Legal. I think so. Ethical. That's another question. I suppose it depends on who's book of ethics you subscribe to. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 15:18
Trump - Crypto - bathtub tom
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| Had a carpenter here last week who was bemoaning the fact that he'd 'lost' £1k on bitcoin recently. Turns out, he hadn't actually lost it, but because he'd sold some and they then went up, he hadn't made £1k profit. He was tearing himself apart over it! |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 15:41
Trump - Crypto - zippy
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>>Had a carpenter here.... When I worked for my last employer, I had to get permission to trade any security and there were several periods each year when I was banned from dealing in any securities relating to them (shares etc), despite being only a minor functionary. A colleague had some shares in a major UK PLC and was in the same position as I was. He wanted to sell the shares and asked for permission. Unbeknown to him (Chinese walls) the PLC was looking to become a customer of ours and the sale was denied. Three years later when he was able to sell the shares, the price had halved. He complained that the price was dropping and that he was losing money and the bank wouldn't have it, saying that it's not a loss until it is "booked" - i.e. traded. Funnily enough, today I have sold a small pot of shares - to keep within my £3k capital gains allowance and I am glad I didn't have to get my bosses authorisation and the securities team's authorisation then have only 24 hours to do the deal, then report the deal to them with evidence. There does seem to be a lot of "red tape" around. |
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New Tue 21 Jan 25 23:29
Trump - The Constitution Has Gone... - zippy
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www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/ Shows a 404 error... :-D Last edited by: smokie on Wed 22 Jan 25 at 09:12
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 11:38
Trump - The Constitution Has Gone... - Terry
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>> www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/ >> >> Shows a 404 error... >> Click on the link to the HOME PAGE. Heroic images have replaced what I suspect would previously have been fairly conventional. Now I will never know - or perhaps reality is that the Donald is now the default constitution! |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 11:51
Trump - The Constitution Has Gone... - Kevin
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Oh my Glub! Another page gone: www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/kevin-for-president/ |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 14:18
Trump - The Constitution Has Gone... - zippy
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>> Oh my Glub! >> >> Another page gone: >> >> www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/kevin-for-president/ >> You got it. :-D |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 09:31
Trump - CGNorwich
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At least some people are prepared to speak up. www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trump-slams-prayer-service-bishop-as-nasty-for-urging-mercy-to-immigrants-lgbt-community/ar-AA1xCpvs?ocid=BingNewsSerp |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 12:24
Trump - Manatee
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Good for Bishop Budde. I saw that and greatly enjoyed it. Strange but not surprising that Trump should object so strongly to Christian guidance on the same day he declared himself to have been saved by God in order that he can make America great again (again). |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 14:41
Trump - Robin O'Reliant
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| "Have mercy on children, they're scared of you", could have been applied to the Christian faiths over many decades. |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 12:32
Trump - Fullchat
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Emily Thornberry on LBC on the day of inauguration said, "Take Donald Trump seriously, not literally" |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 20:02
Trump - Manatee
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>> Emily Thornberry on LBC on the day of inauguration said, >> >> "Take Donald Trump seriously, not literally" A reasonable comment. We should judge him by what he does, not what he says. Based on what he has done already since the inauguration, he's a moron. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7e0jve875o (Drug dealer with life sentence pardoned) |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 20:10
Trump - Manatee
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Background on Ulbricht ...Trump is not helping those trying to defend his presidency. Tonight he pardoned Ross Ulbricht, who founded and from January 2011 to October 2013 ran an online criminal marketplace called Silk Road, where more than $200 million in illegal drugs and other illicit goods and services, such as computer hacking, were bought and sold with cryptocurrency. Most of the sales were of drugs, with the Silk Road home page listing nearly 13,000 options, including heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, and LSD. The wares were linked to at least six deaths from overdose around the world. In May 2015, Ulbricht was sentenced to life in prison and was ordered to forfeit more than $180 million. In May 2024, during his presidential campaign, Trump promised to pardon Ulbricht in order to court the votes of libertarians, who support drug legalization on the grounds that people should be able to make their own choices. They saw Ulbricht’s sentence as government overreach. Tonight, Trump posted that he had pardoned Ulbricht (although Trump spelled his name wrong), saying: “The scum that worked to convict him were some of the same lunatics who were involved in the modern day weaponization of government against me. He was given two life sentences, plus 40 years. Ridiculous!” |
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New Wed 22 Jan 25 23:48
Trump - zippy
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Snopes is usually reliable... www.snopes.com/fact-check/white-house-spanish-website/ www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-admin-us-constitution/ |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 00:17
Trump - Terry
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Science, medicine, technology etc need people with big brains carefully analysing complex data to come up with credible theories which may ultimately deliver that which is intended. It needs people with patience and commitment to try and try again despite frequent failures. They do not get thing done. "Doers" get things done. Lacklustre inadequate performance of US and most European governments needs "doers" not "analysis paralysis" from endless public enquiries and analysis in pursuit of the goal of not alienating any voter. Trump is not stupid - but not exceptionally bright. He: - has a limited attention span - places high value on swift positive outcomes - wastes no time flogging a dead horse - however virtuous - uses unpredictability to unsettle - MAGA is a clear statement of intent - is largely unconcerned who is upset in achieving his goals - moral and ethical concerns unless capable of clarity are not worth wasting time debating He is POTUS for the next four years - health and assassination permitting. We should judge his achievements over the whole term. Just as we should the new Labour government and Starmer. IMHO they have made a woeful start and public confidence is clearly being eroded. Very easy to be very critical - but they too have another 4 years - I may not like it but I sincerely hope performance improves. Do I think Trump decent, pleasant, nice to know - no. Would Biden have got a ceasefire in the middle east without Trumps probably very direct and blunt intervention - I doubt it. Will the simplistic tactics re Ukraine produce a swift outcome - we will have to wait and see. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 09:56
Trump - Boxsterboy
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| The cover of this week's PRIVATE EYE is a must-see! |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 12:42
Trump - Manatee
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There is no equivalence between Starmer and Trump. I don't need to wait and see whether some good comes of Trump. Maybe something will, but the price will be too high. He is not motivated by improving the lives of Americans. He is a criminal despot, otherwise an empty vessel, an emperor without clothes. He has already pardoned insurrectionist 'martyrs', domestic terrorists. He has undone Biden's negotiated price caps on essential pharmaceuticals that 120 million Americans depend on. He is definitely being manipulated. He has already made 100's of Executive Orders and a man with the attention span of a goldfish has not come up with those on his own. Among them he has rescinded the 1965 Equal Employment Opportunity Act. It is now legal to refuse somebody a job because they are (or are not) a woman, black, or Hispanic. Can you imagine this happening under Starmer without even any consultation? Let alone that he would have to get it through Parliament. I can't imagine how this will play out. My hope is that Republicans will rise up and stop this at some point. Meanwhile if it's not too late can we at least not normalize Trump. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 13:33
Trump - Zero
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>> Among them he has rescinded the 1965 Equal Employment Opportunity Act. It is >> now legal to refuse somebody a job because they are (or are not) a woman, >> black, or Hispanic. Nope that not the case, it is not legal to refuse someone a job based solely on gender or race. (tho that has never applied to the military - legally) www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/ending-illegal-discrimination-and-restoring-merit-based-opportunity/ What he has done has rescinded any positive discrimination and inclusion. There is a difference. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 23 Jan 25 at 13:34
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 14:04
Trump - Manatee
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It has certainly been revoked, as widely reported and in your link. "(i) Executive Order 11246 of September 24, 1965 (Equal Employment Opportunity), is hereby revoked. For 90 days from the date of this order, Federal contractors may continue to comply with the regulatory scheme in effect on January 20, 2025." I haven't seen what has been put in its place. EO11246 is not about DEI 'quotas' although it mentions affirmative action "to ensure equal opportunity". |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 15:13
Trump - Zero
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It specifically excludes the constitution. and you extended your interpretation beyond the scope as in my cut quote.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 23 Jan 25 at 15:15
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 15:30
Trump - Manatee
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>> It specifically excludes the constitution. and you extended your interpretation beyond the scope as in >> my cut quote. Yes, I probably did. I hope so. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 18:40
Trump - Biggles
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| Except Federal Government was exempted from Title VII, hence the need for the Executive Order. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 17:40
Trump - Terry
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>> There is no equivalence between Starmer and Trump. >> Totally agree. Simplistically one is a "doer" the other is a "thinker" >> I don't need to wait and see whether some good comes of Trump. Maybe something >> will, but the price will be too high. He is not motivated by improving the lives of Americans. Both Starmer and Trump were elected, both deserve the space to implement that upon which they stood. Whilst Trump (good or bad) cannot stand again, Starmer can (for good or bad). >> He is a criminal despot, otherwise an empty vessel, an emperor without clothes. >> He has already pardoned insurrectionist 'martyrs', domestic terrorists. He has undone >> Biden's negotiated price caps on essential pharmaceuticals that 120 million Americans >> depend on. He is definitely being manipulated. Bidens pardons were no more supportable - just exercising rights that POTUS enjoys. Senility towards then end of his term makes it likely Biden was easily manipulated. Interest groups inevitably seek to influence decisions the leader makes - whether US or UK. >> He has already made 100's of Executive Orders and a man with the attention span of a >> goldfish has not come up with those on his own. Among them he has rescinded the 1965 >> Equal Employment Opportunity Act. It is now legal to refuse somebody a job because they >> are (or are not) a woman, black, or Hispanic. Can you imagine this happening under >> Starmer without even any consultation? Let alone that he would have to get it through >> Parliament. This would not happen in the UK under Starmer, or I suspect any other government. The UK favours (excessive) regulation - we define "protected characteristics" have countless court cases creating delay and expense, put often inordinate effort into sidestepping the rules. Personal view - I want the best people to get the right jobs. I abhor discrimination as much as excessive regulation, both of which waste time, effort and human potential. It is a balance that both Trump and the UK have failed to get right. >> I can't imagine how this will play out. My hope is that Republicans will rise up and stop this >>at some point. Meanwhile if it's not too late can we at least not normalize Trump. And pigs might fly. This time Trump is democratically elected with a significant margin. That you don't like him or his policies is entirely legitimate and a complete irrelevancy. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 18:41
Trump - CGNorwich
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If Trump is a “Doer” I would be grateful to know exactly what he has done apart from inheriting a lot of money. Judged objectively his first term was a failure in nearly every respect including losing the election. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 19:21
Trump - James Loveless
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"If Trump is a "Doer" I would be grateful to know exactly what he has done apart from inheriting a lot of money. Judged objectively his first term was a failure in nearly every respect including losing the election." It's a matter of perception. He has duped anough Americans into believing (a) that the US economy is in a dire state (it's not), (c) illegal immigration is out of hand (questionable, but a convenient red flag to right-wingers) and (b) that he has got what it takes to set all real and imaginary evils to rights, in order to get himself elected. Even given the naivety of most Americans, that is a considerable feat. And it must be said that the Democrats have a lot to answer for. Biden was never as bad as he was made out to be, but the perception of him (starting with the awful, botched withdrawal from Afghanistan) was negative and he did little to turn that around. He hung in there far too long - indeed, should probably have never been a presidential candidate anyway. And let's remember Trump's 2024 victory was clear but by no means a landslide. (Trump popular vote: 77,302,580; Harris 75,017,613.) Last edited by: James Loveless on Thu 23 Jan 25 at 19:23
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 19:58
Trump - smokie
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Does this help CGN? Many are pretty pointless or due to some other cause but on the face of it quite a number seem reasonably significant. trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/ I feel that it might appear that I'm sticking up for him a little too much but I am really just trying to make sure we aren't a propagator of fake news :-) |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 20:02
Trump - Zero
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>> I feel that it might appear that I'm sticking up for him a little too >> much but I am really just trying to make sure we aren't a propagator of >> fake news :-) has any of thatbeen fact checked? it came trump after all |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 12:01
Trump - Manatee
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>> And pigs might fly. This time Trump is democratically elected with a significant margin. That >> you don't like him or his policies is entirely legitimate and a complete irrelevancy. >> Oh, I don't know. Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) and Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) just voted against Hegseth's nomination, and it's early days yet. Irrelevant? Well it's their train set. 'Democratically elected' yes, but he seeks to undermine the system that put him there. That's why such normalizing statements are inappropriate The most egregious of his actions so far has been to try and scrap birthright citizenship, a cut and dried constitutional right. There is no chance of this happening as he probably knows, but he is clearly testing the system and there will be protracted legal cases around it. Further to relevance, I think we need to heed all of this and see it clearly. The extreme right are in the ascendant all over the world, and they copy from each other. cf. Badenough's recent remarks about means-testing the state pension. That would have been unthinkable to Cameron or Sunak. Fortunately I think Badenough is a poor learner and that idea will be a loser with every age group, as well as pushing even more of heir core voters towards Reform. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 12:05
Trump - Zero
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>> Badenough's recent remarks about means-testing the state pension. Shes a strange one, not good at picking her battles. Fancy alienating your core vote. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 12:44
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> Shes a strange one, not good at picking her battles. Fancy alienating your core vote. Guardian reports that she's been after Labour for a 2019 manifesto comment about the scope for Prevent inquiries to cause communal division while having put her signature to very similar commentary a few years earlier. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 13:24
Trump - Manatee
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Both Badenough and Starmer disappoint me in terms of debating. Although I credit Starmer wiith far more ability and integrity than he gets across with his plodding oratory. I think it would work wonders for growth prospects if he grasped the nettle and made some positive noises soon about EU alignment a future customs union with the EU. I can't think of a single thing that would be as powerful without the inflation risk of tax or rate cuts. Incidentally the 10yr gilt yield has been falling for a week or more. I don't read them, but I'm guessing the Telegraph and Mail haven't reported that. Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 24 Jan 25 at 13:25
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 14:01
Trump - Terry
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>> >> >> Badenough's recent remarks about means-testing the state pension. >> >> Shes a strange one, not good at picking her battles. Fancy alienating your core vote. AIUI the "pension" is already effectively means tested - pension credit, council tax reduction, winter fuel allowance, housing benefit, TV licence all depend on other income or savings. Probably a few more of which I am unaware, Our benefit system is a complex shambles - as the winter fuel debacle clearly demonstrated. It needs reform to turn it into a progressive, accessible, intelligible system with none of the "cliffs" and complexities which currently exist. Not a new problem - if Badenoch intends this, rather than simply tinkering with a base state pension, she is to be applauded. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 14:23
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> AIUI the "pension" is already effectively means tested - pension credit, council tax reduction, winter >> fuel allowance, housing benefit, TV licence all depend on other income or savings. Probably a >> few more of which I am unaware, I'm not sure I understand your point. The new State Pension, in place since 2016, is £221.20 which is actually a tad more than the 'decency threshold' of £218.15 which is the single person rate of Pension Credit. Obviously those on the pre 2016 pension, currently c£170 week, are more likely to get it if they've no occupational or second state pension. I believe there's a move afoot to blend pensioner Housing Benefit, the only variety still available to new applicants, into PC. The objective is that Council HB operations can be ceased once all working age claimants are moved to Universal Credit for which the target is April 2026. Council Tax reduction is rightly means tested though pensioners can get up to 100% reduction whereas those on working age benefits, much less generous than PC have to pay up to 45% of it. WFA and the TV licence were universal benefits for pensioners, or those over a certain age but are now effectively means teasted by being linked to Pension Credit* As regards working age benefits Universal Credit, for all its problems, has removed the cliff edges and sweet spots that were present in Child/Working Tax Credit. *Pension Credit is scandalously under claimed. The biggest benefit gain I've ever got for somebody missing out on benefits was a man who had unclaimed Carer's addition in PC which opened up full Housing Benefit and full CT reduction. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 24 Jan 25 at 14:24
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 12:24
Trump - Terry
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>> I'm not sure I understand your point. >> >> The new State Pension, in place since 2016, is £221.20 which is actually a tad >> more than the 'decency threshold' of £218.15 which is the single person rate of Pension >> Credit. Obviously those on the pre 2016 pension, currently c£170 week, are more likely to >> get it if they've no occupational or second state pension. That pensioner income and other benefits from government are variable depending upon other private income or savings effectively makes it means tested. Seems straightforward to me. >> WFA and the TV licence were universal benefits for pensioners, or those over a certain >> age but are now effectively means teasted by being linked to Pension Credit* Agree - now means tested! >> *Pension Credit is scandalously under claimed. The biggest benefit gain I've ever got for >> somebody missing out on benefits was a man who had unclaimed Carer's addition in PC which >> opened up full Housing Benefit and full CT reduction. I agree it was scandalous. "Cliff edge" benefits are fundamentally flawed - should be progressive. I am not clear whether Reeves realised the extent of the under claiming before implementing the WFA changes or just a complete c0ck up. I also don't understand why charities like Age UK who seek to do good work, apparently did little that was effective for the decades that I assume the issue existed. Still aren't as far as I can see - despite £ billions available to support the elderly. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 22:01
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> That pensioner income and other benefits from government are variable depending upon other private income >> or savings effectively makes it means tested. Seems straightforward to me. OK but the basic State Pension, based on NI etc Conts while in work is a fixed amount. When I get mine in 11 months time it should be the max as above. It's not means tested. Where the State Pension, together with other income and, if there's capital, 'tariff income' are not enough to live on there are means tested top ups. I guess we're looking through different prisms. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 13:58
Trump - Manatee
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It would be ridiculous to means test the basic state pension given it's pretty much the lowest in Europe anyway, and even those with other provision will mostly have planned around it. Unfortunately the uncomfortable truth is that with the other necessary supplements pensions cost a lot, and the proportion who are pensioners will be increasing for some time. I feel I've done my bit now, or at least my children have, given the inclusion of pension pots for IHT will alone cost them a 6 figure sum if I fall off the twig in the near future. I intended that to be part pf the estate if it doesn't get spent on care costs. I simply don't believe that IHT is only paid by 4% of people. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 14:03
Trump - sooty123
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>> >> I simply don't believe that IHT is only paid by 4% of people. >> Why's that? |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 15:07
Trump - Manatee
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>> >> >> >> I simply don't believe that IHT is only paid by 4% of people. >> >> >> >> >> Why's that? Well, they've got a figure from somewhere but it's presumably out of date. House prices really. Given there's no IHT on assets left to a spouse I suppose the starting point would be 50% anyway so maybe it really is nearer 8% of households which sounds a bit more credible. I suppose I live in a bubble i.e. a moderately expensive housing area, which probably distorts the view. And I also tend to assume people have savings because that's always been my mindset. That might well be a bad assumption. I think including pension pots will materially increase it. It's suddenly made it a much bigger issue for us. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 15:31
Trump - sooty123
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> Well, they've got a figure from somewhere but it's presumably out of date. House prices >> really. Given there's no IHT on assets left to a spouse I suppose the starting >> point would be 50% anyway so maybe it really is nearer 8% of households which >> sounds a bit more credible. >> >> I suppose I live in a bubble i.e. a moderately expensive housing area, which probably >> distorts the view. And I also tend to assume people have savings because that's always >> been my mindset. That might well be a bad assumption. >> >> I think including pension pots will materially increase it. It's suddenly made it a much >> bigger issue for us. I think we all live in our surroundings and think it's normal. No one in my family has to worry about iht, all well below the threshold. I don't any of them has ever paid it or had to worry about it. When it comes to savings across the country i remember articles like this. One in four adults currently have less than £500 in savings as households. Two in five have less than £2,000 in savings. www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-13028919/One-four-adults-currently-500-savings.html That's not me having a go :) just something i remember (similar stats) from an article a few years ago. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 25 Jan 25 at 15:32
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 14:10
Trump - Zero
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>> I simply don't believe that IHT is only paid by 4% of people. Its a threshold only met by home owners, plenty of ways round it, I wouldn't be surprised by that number. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 15:10
Trump - Kevin
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>The most egregious of his actions so far has been to try and scrap birthright >citizenship, a cut and dried constitutional right. Cut and dried? There are constant legal challenges to how The Constitution is interpreted. The Second Ammendment to The Constitution purportedly guaranteed the right of any citizen to bear arms but 18 U.S.C. § 922 removed that right for anyone convicted of certain crimes and imposed age limits contrary to equal rights protections. The Fourteenth Ammendment purportedly guarantees birthright citizenship but it is already restricted and does not apply to the children of diplomats, vessels within territorial waters or anyone not 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the US, which rather oddly includes children of Indians subject to tribal laws. It is therefore arguable that undocumented aliens are outside of the law and not entitled to claim the 14th. It's only 'cut and dried' to those who want to take a poke at him. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 15:37
Trump - Zero
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>> The Second Ammendment to The Constitution purportedly guaranteed the right of any citizen to bear >> arms Ah well there you go, it doesn't, only by modern interpretation and legal challenge. 2nd amendment A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It was intended to limit the power of Congress to organize, arm, and discipline the federal militia, and has been later interpreted as an individual's right to carry and use arms for personal self-defense, as much by lawlessness and availability of arms starting with the wild west, than by design. This interpretation has survived many legal challenges, and due to the fact its deep in the fabric of many states, always will. At the end of the day, the (trump dominated) US supreme court justices will decide if the 14th amendment applies in Trumps executive order. If they go against him congress will have to vote on it and he will fall at that hurdle. In truth, it does seem a rediculous "right" and not at all suited to modern life. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 24 Jan 25 at 15:38
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 16:17
Trump - Kevin
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>It was intended to limit the power of Congress.. There have been loads of legal argument over what/who the 2nd was meant to protect and there is still no accepted interpretation over what was intended. www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-2/second-amendment-doctrine-and-practice The point is, virtually nothing is cut and dried in The Constitution and it can be overridden. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 16:00
Trump - Manatee
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Shirley, they won't be undocumented aliens if they were born in the USA? >> It's only 'cut and dried' to those who want to take a poke at him. Which would seem to include a Republican-appointed judge. It was his opinion I was relying on, not mine. Do you think it will change? |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 18:11
Trump - Kevin
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>Shirley, they won't be undocumented aliens if they were born in the USA? By 'undocumented' the yanks mean without a valid residence permit. According to Border Force, women are risking themselves and their unborns to cross the border illegally and are only documented when they turn up at one of the migrant centers. >Which would seem to include a Republican-appointed judge. It was his opinion I was relying on, not mine. There are plenty of Republicans who will disagree with Trump on one issue or another just like there are some Democrats who will secretly applaud some of his policies. He's not a likeable character and comes out with stuff that sounds crazy at times. If you can work out he actually means rather than what come out of his mouth it helps. >Do you think it will change? I think the automatic birthright needs to change but he's like a bull in a china shop at the moment so he's going to get some b loody-minded opposition. The trick cyclists must be scratching their heads over Trump. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 19:26
Trump - Manatee
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>> The trick cyclists must be scratching their heads over Trump. I'm not convinced he's mentally ill or has dementia. He is however extremely dishonest and thoroughly devious. The more I see of him, the more I think it's just obsession with money and power, plus the cunning and ruthlessness to get after it. The populism is a sham. He has no interest in doing anything for the American people. His cabinet shows he is not serious about public service. He has mostly picked the worst people, not the best. The most craven, and often laughably unqualified. He's certainly a narcissist but so are most of the people on Love Island. The dishonesty is ingrained. I believe this because he lies even when he doesn't need to. I don't think he will be taken away in a strait jacket. Hopefully his criminality will get him in the end. He is destroying the GOP and some of them must be bright enough to realise the only way to rehabilitate the party will be to get rid of Trump. I hope. But I am not a trick cyclist. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 19:57
Trump - Kevin
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>I'm not convinced he's mentally ill or has dementia. He is however extremely >dishonest and thoroughly devious. It's neither of those but there's something that drives him hard. Maybe it's having to deal with the dishonest and devious Democrats that does it? >..The populism is a sham. He has no interest in doing anything for the >American people. I don't know where you get that from. One week in and he's already doing what he said he would do, what he was elected to do, and he hasn't done anything he said he wouldn't do. What more do you expect? >His cabinet shows he is not serious about public service. He has mostly picked the >worst people, not the best. The most craven, and often laughably unqualified. He's done exactly what other political leaders do. He's appointing his own people. People who he trusts and hopes will get the job done. Does the shower of carp in Starmer's cabinet show that he isn't serious about public service? >He is destroying the GOP and some of them must be bright enough to realise the only >way to rehabilitate the party will be to get rid of Trump. Now you are being ridiculous. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 20:44
Trump - Manatee
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>>Now you are being ridiculous. I really don't think so, but this is uncharted territory. Of course they know he should have been put beyond the pale in 2015/16. Have you looked into Hegseth? They are riding his coat tails because of his popularity. Most must despise him privately, those who aren't as venal as him or thick as sheet. They won't use the 25th Amendment. That would finish them anyway. But they will get him at some point IMO. Apparently Colombia has refused to allow 2 planeloads of deportees to land. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:12
Trump - sooty123
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>> Apparently Colombia has refused to allow 2 planeloads of deportees to land. >> Appears trump has threatened them tariffs, which has worked and Colombia have agreed to the flights. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:17
Trump - Zero
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>> Appears trump has threatened them tariffs, which has worked and Colombia have agreed to the >> flights. Indeed, don't want tariffs on cocaine now do we. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:23
Trump - Kevin
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>Of course they know he should have been put beyond the pale in 2015/16. Have you >..looked into Hegseth? Only what I've read in the media. The left wing media are mud slinging but right of centre are saying none of the accusations have actually been proven. My gut feeling is that he's a creep but my opinion doesn't count. It's the American public who'll decide. >They are riding his coat tails because of his popularity. Most must despise him >privately, those who aren't as venal as him or thick as sheet. I am not privy to what they think of him other than he won every swing state for them, won the popular vote and has given them the power to put their policies into practice. >They won't use the 25th Amendment. That would finish them anyway. But they >will get him at some point IMO. Stabbing a popular leader in the back never turns out well. Ask Sunak and the Tories. >Apparently Colombia has refused to allow 2 planeloads of deportees to land. A pointless virtue signalling gesture that has backfired spectacularly. |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 20:54
Trump - Bromptonaut
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His mother was from Tong on the Isle of Lewis: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008m4z/mathair-a-chinn-suidhe-trumps-mother Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 23 Jan 25 at 20:54
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 21:19
Trump - Zero
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| at the end of the day, unless you were a native indian, every American is an immigrant |
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New Thu 23 Jan 25 21:42
Trump - zippy
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>> at the end of the day, unless you were a native indian, every American is >> an immigrant >> And considered an immigrant in their own country... apnews.com/article/idaho-racist-outburst-senator-candidate-forum-49d9e3c56b056d8406c35b914a121ae9 |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 09:12
Trump - CGNorwich
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| So ultimately is everyone in the world unless after their family evolved in the Great Rift Valley they decided, unlike their relatives, to stay put. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 09:18
Trump - bathtub tom
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| I hear he's de-classifying some of the JFK assassination files. Could reveal some interesting information as they'd been hidden from public view. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 09:29
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> I hear he's de-classifying some of the JFK assassination files. Could reveal some interesting information >> as they'd been hidden from public view. I suspect the content will be mundane and the reasons not to disclose equally mundane like protecting anonymity in certain circs. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 11:29
Trump - Zero
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>> >> I hear he's de-classifying some of the JFK assassination files. Could reveal some interesting >> information >> >> as they'd been hidden from public view. >> >> I suspect the content will be mundane and the reasons not to disclose equally mundane >> like protecting anonymity in certain circs. Its a non event. Even is everything is revealed there will still be claims of cover up. Thats conspiracy theory rule no 1. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 11:04
Trump - zippy
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>> So ultimately is everyone in the world unless after their family evolved in the Great >> Rift Valley they decided, unlike their relatives, to stay put. >> But generally they are not ignorant enough to tell indigenous people to feck off! |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 12:35
Trump - CGNorwich
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“But generally they are not ignorant enough to tell indigenous people to feck off!“ No they didn’t bother in the Paleolithic Just hit them over the head with a rock. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 13:08
Trump - Zero
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>> No they didn’t bother in the Paleolithic Just hit them over the head with a >> rock. Trump says America invented the rock and China is using it to spy on Americans. |
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 14:17
Trump - Terry
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>> 2m years ago the Great Rift Valley was the world. Humanity slowly developed the concept of tribes, territories, nations, and even continents when they realised oceans weren't almost limitless wastes. Nations change - Cornwall, Scotland, Yorkshire etc were once independent entities and many would wish that were the case again. So in some ways nations are tribes - communities linked by social, economic, religious, blood, culture etc. To trivialise it - creating rules for the admission to new members of a tribe is no different to satisfying the golf club, freemasons, clergy, professional (doctor, lawyer etc) committees you are worthy of membership, Last edited by: Terry on Fri 24 Jan 25 at 14:18
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New Fri 24 Jan 25 11:27
Trump - Zero
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>> So ultimately is everyone in the world unless after their family evolved in the Great >> Rift Valley they decided, unlike their relatives, to stay put. Well if we wish to go that far back, I think it makes my point a more valid one. American immigration is very current on that calendar. Like yesterday. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 02:49
Trump - zippy
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It seems that a US military plane carrying illegal immigrants for repatriation has been refused permission to fly over Mexico and other South American countries. A bit more planning and a little less rhetoric eh, Donald! www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/so-little-planning-experts-mock-trump-after-mexico-refuses-to-let-deportation-flight-land/ar-AA1xPjXW |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 04:07
Trump - Bromptonaut
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>> A bit more planning and a little less rhetoric eh, Donald! As the UK has found rhetoric and reality with deportations are different places. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 12:26
Trump - Terry
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| Parachutes - a Donald solution obviously. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 13:20
Trump - sooty123
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| Reading that article it seems Mexico refused dip clearance so they flew around their airspace, the flight wasn't stopped. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 14:18
Trump - Zero
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Repatriating illegals is not easy. If a military flight or charter they will need flight clearance and landing rights, Illegals on board will need valid passports/id cards/citizenship at port of entry to disembark, and at the end of the day there are only so many plane seats available. Either way I bet the service is better than Ryan Air, and the airport is actually near where the ticket claims it is. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 14:36
Trump - Zero
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| Apparently if Trump claims Canada, the French are going to claim Louisiana, and the Spanish will take new Mexico |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 19:04
Trump - legacylad
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| And Quebec ? |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 19:31
Trump - tyrednemotional
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And we're going to send a gunboat to claim back the remainder of N America. (Well, that's if we can find one that works) |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 11:45
Trump - sherlock47
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| Interesting article in the Sunday Times re Greenland. Apparently the UK has pre-emptive rights to buy it - ahead of the USA. Since Denmark apparently contributes only 500m £ annually to support the small population it could be a good investment looking at the potential oil and mineral reserves? I suspect the Greenlanders would rather remain as part of 'Europe' than become a 52 state, unless somebody orchestrates a Farage/Johnson style campaign. |
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New Sat 25 Jan 25 20:41
Trump - CGNorwich
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>> Apparently if Trump claims Canada, the French are going to claim Louisiana, and the Spanish >> will take new Mexico >> Russia might like to have Alaska back, sold to the USA for 2 cents an acre in 1867. I'm sure a good lawyer could find grounds. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 07:22
Trump - sooty123
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news.sky.com/story/trump-praises-starmer-for-doing-very-good-job-so-far-and-plans-to-call-him-within-24-hours-13296872 Seems to think well of the PM, for today anyway. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 11:46
Trump - sherlock47
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>> news.sky.com/story/trump-praises-starmer-for-doing-very-good-job-so-far-and-plans-to-call-him-within-24-hours-13296872 >> >> Seems to think well of the PM, for today anyway. >> Well, at least for the time his mouth was was open? |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 12:38
Trump - zippy
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>> news.sky.com/story/trump-praises-starmer-for-doing-very-good-job-so-far-and-plans-to-call-him-within-24-hours-13296872 >> >> Seems to think well of the PM, for today anyway. >> Probably thinks Starmer is Stalin. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 12:47
Trump - tyrednemotional
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>> >> Probably thinks Starmer is Stalin. >> Well, The Daily Telegraph does..... |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 12:52
Trump - Terry
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What Trump says may be entirely disconnected from his brain. But he does know how to flatter, and the object of his flattery (in this case Starmer) will happily interpret it as presidential praise. Subsequent actions are probably a better indicator of reality!! |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 17:34
Trump - Manatee
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>>the object of his flattery (in this case Starmer) will happily interpret it as presidential praise. I'm sure he's brighter than that. He'll bank it publicly, but any fule no Trump only 'likes' people while they are doing what he wants. And Trump is absolutely terrible at faking sincerity. He actually cares for nobody but himself, I'm sure of that. |
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New Tue 28 Jan 25 08:45
Trump - tyrednemotional
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>> >> And Trump is absolutely terrible at faking sincerity. He actually cares for nobody but himself, >> I'm sure of that. >> John Crace in the Guardian was probably about right.... ;-) www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/27/john-crace-imagining-starmer-first-call-with-trump |
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New Tue 28 Jan 25 09:39
Trump - Kevin
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>John Crace in the Guardian was probably about right.... ;-) Breaking News! Starmer orders inquiry into leak at GCHQ. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 12:58
Trump - zippy
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Sacking Govt. Employees.... Apparently he sacked the heads of some form of oversight department. They have written back saying he doesn't have the authority to do that and it needs authorisation from Congress. Made me chuckle. The thing with Greenland... doesn't he / his disciples see that's not far off what Russia is doing with Ukraine? One worrying post I saw some time ago suggested more US agents / spies died / disappeared when he was in power and after he met with Putin and asked his interpretor to leave the room than any other president. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:05
Trump - enabling lunatics - zippy
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billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2025/html/HB/1400-1499/HB1484IN.htm A proposed law in Mississipi to claim a bounty on illegal immigrants and illegal immigrants to get life in prison without possibility of parole. I don't suspect it will pass but remember the USA does make prisoners work in private prisons for no pay - so a nice slave labour workforce. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:11
Trump - enabling lunatics - Zero
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>> I don't suspect it will pass but remember the USA does make prisoners work in >> private prisons for no pay - so a nice slave labour workforce. You want prison to pay for being in it? You'll be demanding a pension for them next. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:24
Trump - enabling lunatics - Manatee
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What a vile country it will become if this continues. Turning the population into informers like the old GDR. AFAIK the majority of undocumented immigrants work and pay tax, and aren't criminals because they want to stay below the radar. Boggling. www.mississippifreepress.org/mississippi-bounty-hunter-bill-to-go-after-undocumented-immigrants-faces-legal-and-political-hurdles-experts-say/ |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 21:33
Trump - enabling lunatics - zippy
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I suspect a watered down version may be next...still vile. But then when the dear leader is promoting ethnic cleansing what do you expect.... www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07kpjyzgllo |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 22:32
Trump - enabling lunatics - Terry
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Israel Palestine tensions interspersed with bits of conflict have been unresolved for 75 years. If nothing changes, it will repeat in 10-20 years - Israel will defend its right to exist, and conditions in Gaza will likely allow resistance to fester with occasional violent outbreaks. It could take a decade or more for full re-construction, and £50-100bn. For the next few years Gaza will be a squalid mess with limited basic services - sewage, clean water, reliable power etc. Change and compromise is needed from all players - Israel, Palestinians, Arab neighbours, US, UN, and UK. Huge funds will be required to rebuild infrastructures. These are non-trivial challenges. Trump with a predictable lack of subtlety has put forward a very partial solution to a bit of the problem. Rejection out of hand will signal an unwillingness of those involved to change and compromise. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 22:02
Trump - enabling lunatics - Kevin
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Jeez, do you lot believe every piece of carp put in front of you? Immigration status is federal. Our cheapskate govt. expect us to do it for free. www.imsallegations.homeoffice.gov.uk/start And Uncle Don is talking about bulldozing Gaza and rebuilding - not sending in the firing squads. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 22:06
Trump - enabling lunatics - Manatee
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>>Jeez, do you lot believe every piece of carp put in front of you? Immigration status is federal. I won't take offence at that, but you do seem rather credulous yourself where Trump is concerned! |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 22:21
Trump - enabling lunatics - Kevin
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>I won't take offence at that, but you do seem rather credulous yourself where Trump is concerned! It wasn't intended to be offensive but take it however you like. And my thoughts and opinions of Trump are just as valid as yours, they just come without the insults. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 22:30
Trump - enabling lunatics - zippy
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>> www.imsallegations.homeoffice.gov.uk/start >> >> And Uncle Don is talking about bulldozing Gaza and rebuilding - And who do you think will be allowed to stay in the new luxury Gaza? The current locala wouldn't be able to afford it. >>Immigration status is federal Yes but Mississipi isn't looking to change status, but sanctions against them. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 22:54
Trump - enabling lunatics - Kevin
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>And who do you think will be allowed to stay in the new luxury Gaza? >The current locala wouldn't be able to afford it. How has a perfectly reasonable suggestion that it would probably be quicker to flatten what's left and rebuild suddenly become a 'luxury Gaza'? >>Immigration status is federal >Yes but Mississipi isn't looking to change status, but sanctions against them. All the state can do is possibly arrest and notify federal authorities. I'm not sure if they can even detain without notifying. |
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New Sun 26 Jan 25 23:07
Trump - enabling lunatics - Terry
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>> And Uncle Don is talking about bulldozing Gaza and rebuilding - >> >> And who do you think will be allowed to stay in the new luxury Gaza? >> The current locala wouldn't be able to afford it. >> >> Immigration status is federal >> >> Yes but Mississipi isn't looking to change status, but sanctions against them. IMHO an effective way to stop Gaza Israel violence is to ensure Gaza has schools, healthcare, working infrastructures (energy, water, sewage, roads), decent governance and law enforcement, decent housing, jobs etc. This would provide Gazans with certainty and futures which they have not had for many decades (or ever?), and would hopefully be increasingly disinclined to risk to settle old scores. It is entirely legitimate for a leadership, democratically elected to control immigration, to ensure policies are enacted to deliver that promised. The most effective action is to make it unattractive even to try. Illegal immigration will then decline towards zero - issues associated with deportation avoided. There should be a clear separation of how the democratic process should work from whether immigration is good or bad, whether there is a moral duty, etc. I would note that UN asylum rules date from 1951 - 73 years ago. The world is now a very different place. |
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New Mon 27 Jan 25 09:54
Trump - enabling lunatics - Zero
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Trouble with trump is, he thinks and speaks at the same time. In fact most of the time he speaks before he thinks. So. "the place is wrecked, we need to move the people out, other arab states must take them" No context, no further clarification, no follow up, SO He could have meant "temporarily house them elsewhere, rebuild the place properly, allow them to move back to a newly rebuilt land"* or "permanently move them to other Arab countries" Of course Netenyahoo and the ultra radical religious loonies he had to gather around him to cling to power have seized on meaning number two, as many have them have had designs on the Mediterranean coast, and expanding Israel that direction. Of course all the IDF has achieved with its war crimes is to ensure there will be whole new generations of many many more Israel hating terrorists and fighters. * out of the rubble, all Trump can see is new Condo's, Casinos, Multiple MareLagos spread up and down the coast line. |
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New Mon 27 Jan 25 10:04
Trump - enabling lunatics - tyrednemotional
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>> >> * out of the rubble, all Trump can see is new Condo's, Casinos, Multiple MareLagos >> spread up and down the coast line. >> Having supplied and profited from all the US-supplied ordnance that devastated the place in the first instance, I'm sure he'll have eyes on the States following it up by also profiting from any rebuild. :-( |
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New Mon 27 Jan 25 10:53
Trump - enabling lunatics - Zero
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| And there you have Trumps weakness in a nutshell. Promise him stuff on a level he understands, and you can easily string him along for another 4 years. |
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New Mon 27 Jan 25 14:03
Trump - enabling lunatics - Terry
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Easy to be critical of Trump - possibly justifiably. But he is a lone voice it would seem - the rest of the world seems happy to stand by and do 50d all. Relying upon the UN, US, UK EU, other Arab states seems a triumph of hope over reality. Stopping future conflicts and middle east stability needs new and different solutions. The rest of the worlds leaders will, no doubt, soon start arguing about who pays, who compromises, etc rather than solving the problem. It is not Trump (however misguided and simplistic) who deserves criticism, it is the mostly self serving inadequates the rest of us elect as leaders. |
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New Mon 27 Jan 25 17:49
Trump - enabling lunatics - James Loveless
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"It is not Trump (however misguided and simplistic) who deserves criticism, it is the mostly self serving inadequates the rest of us elect as leaders." No - sorry - that will not do. Trump does deserve criticism, for his lack of moral perspective, his flouting of the rules of law and of democracy and his poor governance, if his previous presidency is anything to go by. And it takes a pretty egregious individual to get himself elected after collecting multiple convictions for, in effect, dishonesty. We could argue for ever about whether the rest of the world's leaders are as bad as you say; doubtless some are. But it's a devious piece of reasoning that suggests that perceived dissatisfaction with other leaders somehow means we should support what Trump represents and cherry-pick the bits we like while overlooking everything else. The man is totally appalling on every level that matters and the fact that he has an agenda and sense of purpose does not excuse the rest of what he is. I'm already picking up from various sources idea that, maybe, Trump is not that bad after all. Oh dear. However, the only reason the rest of the world has to deal with him is that a clear (though not that large) majority of US voters wanted him, at least part of the reason for which was that Biden was perceived (not entirely fairly) to have made such a mess of things. Last edited by: James Loveless on Mon 27 Jan 25 at 17:51
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New Mon 27 Jan 25 19:01
Trump - enabling lunatics - Manatee
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Trump's golden measure is the stock market by which yardstick Biden, or at least his administration, did a brilliant job. He left with inflation under control and a growing economy. Not many countries are managing that. And a lot of good stuff was done. The big thing to set against that is the ballooning deficit. I stand by my belief that Trump does not care about anybody else, especially the kind of ordinary people who support him. For example he removed negotiated caps on the prices of commonly used medications that many who need them simply could not afford, immediately on accession. He is as you imply being normalised. Getting used to him being there doesn't make him any better. His only good feature is that anybody with a mind to can see easily enough what he is. As to who facilitates him, it's the GOP. Leaders of other countries really have no choice than to humour him, Starmer for example would not be helping us if he told Trump exactly what he thinks of him. |
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New Tue 28 Jan 25 09:30
Trump - enabling lunatics - Kevin
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Trump's golden measure is the stock market... The only part of that post I would question is your asserion that he's removed price caps on meds. If you are talking about him rescinding Biden's 14087 order then that does no such thing. Existing price caps negotiated by Medicare/Medicaid are unaffected and ongoing negotiations will extend the list. finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-scrapped-a-proposed-2-drug-program-for-seniors-but-why-181219100.html I think part of the reason it was rescinded was that Biden's order also charged the Dept of Health with investigating 'new payment methods' and to 'streamline' FDA approval for new drugs. Republicans and Democrats have been throwing rocks at each other over whether those terms actually meant subsidies for pharma companies and a watering down of safety studies. |
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New Tue 28 Jan 25 11:22
Trump - enabling lunatics - Manatee
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| I'm obliged to you, I shall dig further. |
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