Non-motoring > Gender specific pronouns Miscellaneous
Thread Author: legacylad Replies: 73

 Gender specific pronouns - legacylad
I’m out of touch with sending business emails, happily retired, but received one yesterday where not only had the sender put their qualifications after their name( fair enough) but “ she/her. “.
What’s that all about ? I couldn’t care less if it’s half woman half goldfish, why on earth would you add that, especially as it’s breeding obvious given the female forename.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
It's pretty common in corporate email sigs.

Even if you're called Susan or Steven you might prefer not to be addressed in a way that relates to your sex/gender. In that case you'd give your pronouns as they/them. Or if you were a female Stevie she/her.

In order to 'normalise' that those of us with names and identities with no room for confusion are encouraged to be eg Simon Bromptonaut (he/him).
 Gender specific pronouns - legacylad
Thanks Bromp.
New to me…I suppose if used by the ‘Boy named Sue’ in the song it would avoid confusion.
I’m starting to realise that reality is a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to
Live there.
 Gender specific pronouns - smokie
A mate's grandson is just undergoing his 2nd gender change. Not physical, but he was born as a male, identified as a female for a bit but at the wise old age of 14 he's decided he wants to be something in between.

My mate and I certainly don't get it, but apparently it's causing major issues in schools (and probably elsewhere).
 Gender specific pronouns - Timeonmyhands
Attention seeking?
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> A mate's grandson is just undergoing his 2nd gender change. Not physical, but he was
>> born as a male, identified as a female for a bit but at the wise
>> old age of 14 he's decided he wants to be something in between.

Just let them get on with it.

Sure Matey can offer advice as to why it might go tizup big time but if it's not heeded then make clear that they need to live with the consequences.
 Gender specific pronouns - Kevin
I identified as female for a while last year.

I was bursting for a P at a beach bar in Greece and there was a queue for the Gents.
 Gender specific pronouns - tyrednemotional
...and that, M'lud, concludes the case for the defence....
 Gender specific pronouns - bathtub tom
>> I was bursting for a P at a beach bar in Greece and there was
>> a queue for the Gents.

Usually t'other way round, ever been to the Royal Albert Hall?

I thought it was quite legal for a female to use the gents, but not for a male to use the ladies.
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
Ditto Bromp, though I have seen it a lot. I found it useful when dealing with email senders with names from different cultures where I couldn't easily assess the senders gender.

I avoided using them (in hindsight, perhaps selfishly - but not deliberately so) because my name - is traditionally male.

When addressing emails, I used first names (avoiding requesting of Christian name - 'cause that can cause offence also), usually proceeded by "Hi", unless I was annoyed when it was just the first name. If writing a letter it was "Dear Bob Cratchit" - avoiding gender altogether.

I have absolutely no problem with people who legitimately want / need to change gender. I have met some lovely people in the wrong gender and who are transitioning or who had transitioned.

What I think is concerning, is that there are some people that are not legitimately transitioning and are pretending to be one gender to get access to that genders facilities (toilets, changing rooms etc.) just to get kicks or so that they can intimidate others / gain access to otherwise safe spaces. How you police this is beyond me!?

As I understand it, a biological male with a gender recognition certificate to female can get access to safe female spaces including female only wards at hospitals or hostels for battered women for example. In theory, a biological female with a gender recognition certificate to male who is pregnant, could be refused access to a maternity ward. I am happy to be corrected if I understand this wrong. Again, I have no problems for legitimate people changing genders, but it does make for some legal and ethical oddities.

What is also a concern is the vitriolic attacks against those with different views on the subject, including hounding people out of their jobs etc. and that can't be right - it is almost like "thought crime" from 1984.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 19 Dec 24 at 20:27
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> As I understand it, a biological male with a gender recognition certificate to female can
>> get access to safe female spaces including female only wards at hospitals or hostels for
>> battered women for example. In theory, a biological female with a gender recognition certificate to
>> male who is pregnant, could be refused access to a maternity ward. I am happy
>> to be corrected if I understand this wrong. Again, I have no problems for legitimate
>> people changing genders, but it does make for some legal and ethical oddities.

There's a lot of confusion and tons of mythology around a GRC. The Gender Recognition Act was passed with some reluctance so that the UK complied with a ECHR judgement on the right of a Transwoman to marry their biologically male partner. It's a complicated medico-legal process and takes at least two years to achieve.

I know, or know of, three people who have transitioned. A member of the Quango did so male>female in full public view and got a GRC. There's a person on the training circuit in my profession now known as, and having every appearance of being, male. If I'd not met them at the halfway stage I don't think I'd know. A friend of my son's is going male>female and is currently at the fluid stage and uses they/them and a non gendered forename.

AIUI the certificate itself is not something you can carry with you. Rather it directs the Registrar General to issue a new birth certificate in the adopted gender. The subject of that certificate has their adopted gender for all purposes and there are criminal sanctions for disclosing its existence without consent.

There are plenty of laws around lewd behaviour which can be used to deal with malfeasance. Examples of people doing the sort of things in women's spaces in the way the Gender Critical Feminist allege are few/far between.

>> What is also a concern is the vitriolic attacks against those with different views on
>> the subject, including hounding people out of their jobs etc. and that can't be right
>> - it is almost like "thought crime" from 1984.

Both ways. If you want to see the debate at it's wildest have a look on Mumsnet.....
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
>> >> What is also a concern is the vitriolic attacks against those with different views
>> on
>> >> the subject, including hounding people out of their jobs etc. and that can't be
>> right
>> >> - it is almost like "thought crime" from 1984.
>>
>> Both ways. If you want to see the debate at it's wildest have a look
>> on Mumsnet.....
>>

I hadn't been working for the company long, and was a junior manager grade (no staff) working out of a call centre with a mix of ages from school leavers up.

When a member of staff wanted to tell everyone he was starting to transition, he was very well supported. He asked for a meeting and everyone was called in and he explained what was going on and how he felt. Obviously things like this get talked about and the ladies on the team I worked with had no problem with her using their facilities.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> When a member of staff wanted to tell everyone he was starting to transition, he
>> was very well supported. He asked for a meeting and everyone was called in and
>> he explained what was going on and how he felt. Obviously things like this get
>> talked about and the ladies on the team I worked with had no problem with

More or less what happened in the Quango except that the disclosure wasn't planned. We had some interest in the Gender Recognition Tribunal and it came up as a subject on the agenda of a meeting.

The transitioner started to talk about working with Trans people in a small sub set of society. I think most of us could see what was coming as their appear was already changing but the person chairing the meeting missed the cues and carried on digging....

After that all were very supportive including, as was your experience females over use of the toilet facilities.

Post transition and under a female name I thought they did a good job of it. Sounded a bit like Alastair Sim in St Triinians (?) but had clearly put a lot of work into feminising how they talked, walked and gestured etc.
 Gender specific pronouns - Manatee
It's over 20 years since a male colleague addressed the entire HO department to say he would be living as a woman from then on. He had a few weeks away from work and came back identifying as a woman, although I don't think that terminology existed then.

The male colleagues took it better than the women. Many of the female staff shunned her, I don't think they liked her using the same facilities.

I don't recall any mention of pronouns. That came later.
 Gender specific pronouns - tyrednemotional
I'll start to get worried if you change your login to "legacylad LDWA (she)" (or possibly (it or they)).

;-)
 Gender specific pronouns - BiggerBadderDave
I get a lot of these gender pronoun preference-emails, all from London clients.

Socialising in the West End (hitting the clubs) for a couple of decades has meant I've been hit on by many cross dressers (and various trans-types). I loved all that. I loved getting any kind of attention like that, not my kind of thing perhaps (obvs) but I've enjoyed it and still would. I'd love it if it happened when I was next there.

But my vernacular is set in concrete and I won't change it for anyone. I couldn't if I tried.

Who in god's name would ever reply to an email in the third person, anyway? It's not 'he', 'she' or 'they'. It's 'you'.

It's not 'thank she for their input to the project'. it's 'thank you for what you've done'.

You.
 Gender specific pronouns - Mapmaker
>> Brompton: “ It's pretty common in corporate email sigs.”

I really don’t think it is! I’ve never seen it in a corporate email signature. I presume you mean academia, civil service etc. i.e. literally non-corporate email signatures. It’s a thing for environments that are non-capitalist, non-conventional.
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
>> >> Brompton: “ It's pretty common in corporate email sigs.”
>>
>> I really don’t think it is! I’ve never seen it in a corporate email signature.
>> I presume you mean academia, civil service etc. i.e. literally non-corporate email signatures. It’s a
>> thing for environments that are non-capitalist, non-conventional.
>>

It was certainly gaining traction in banking and large corporate clients. Professionals (accountants, engineers etc) at smaller clients were starting to do the same.

My thoughts were to keep out of it but, but don't be a martyr:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14044175/Council-worker-pro-nouns-email-12-000.html

Work had, some time ago, suggested using pronouns but hadn't enforced it. They did insist on permission to post to one's Linked In account. I am glad that I didn't have one.
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 10 Jan 25 at 23:05
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> I really don’t think it is! I’ve never seen it in a corporate email signature.
>> I presume you mean academia, civil service etc. i.e. literally non-corporate email signatures. It’s a
>> thing for environments that are non-capitalist, non-conventional.

I've spent the last ten years employed by, and/or volunteering for, a charity. I started to see it in that environment and at the same time have become aware of it's use being encouraged by large corporates like Zippy's example in banking.

Nothing odd, it's just meant to normalise the fact that a minority, for whatever reason, don't want to use binary him/her pronouns.
 Gender specific pronouns - Mapmaker
I spend my life receiving emails from lawyers, accountants and bankers. I’ll let you know when I see it from one of them. Zippy are you referring to retail banking?

I also receive emails from people in the arts and development. They’re all at it. I suppose It’s helpful when it’s an ungendered name (a foreign one, say) as you know if you’re referring to a man or a woman, but why should the gender of the correspondent matter? Are we supposed to give more authority to advice written by men? Thought so.

Back in the last millennium women would sign off their letters ‘Jane Smith (Mrs)’. Helpful when you were addressing an envelope back.

I cannot conceive a single circumstance when you need to use a pronoun other than ‘you and yours’ when addressing somebody. This is virtue signalling on work time.

I’m with JKR. No child is ‘born in the wrong body’. This is a mental health crisis of spectacular scale, encouraged by weirdos.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
Mapmaker, have you ever actually met somebody who believes they were born in the wrong body?

Personally and professionally I can recall 3 from the last 10-15 years. I've spent far too much time elsewhere debating the issue and we've agreed to differ. I think they're as mad you think the 'wrong body' thing - which is by no means new - to be.

Of course it's not always about the body; some people are more comfortable without a pronoun.

If somebody prefers to use no pronoun and be referred to as they/them is that an issue too?

We also have Mx (pronounced Mix) for those who want a non gendered pronoun. It's quite interesting to be older and see all the same arguments that were trotted out when Ms came into widespread use in the eighties presented again.

 Gender specific pronouns - smokie
Yes but - as I said upthread...

"A mate's grandson is just undergoing his 2nd gender change. Not physical, but he was born as a male, identified as a female for a bit but at the wise old age of 14 he's decided he wants to be something in between.

"My mate and I certainly don't get it, but apparently it's causing major issues in schools (and probably elsewhere)."

Seems then that there are a lot of people born in the wring body or whatever. Or maybe there is something fashionable or rebellious going on alongside.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> Seems then that there are a lot of people born in the wring body or
>> whatever. Or maybe there is something fashionable or rebellious going on alongside.

There has been a sea change, particularly amongst youngsters, of those seeking help with Gender issues. It used to me males transitioning to female. Now the majority are female wanting to be male. There are said to be a number of drivers/enablers for that in particular the easy availability of information, of all levels of accuracy, in social media.

Along with learning to deal with the issue with pupils in a sympathetic fashion we desperately need to recognise that social media and access to it are things that are here to stay. Kids need to be taught to use it and recognise its scope to do harm from a young age.

Like teaching them about sex, gender, boundaries, consent etc it needs to be on the curriculum from primary.

Banning under 16s from having phones is desperation and doomed to fail.
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
>>Seems then that there are a lot of people born in the wring body or whatever. Or maybe there >>is something fashionable or rebellious going on alongside.

There does seem to be some fashion /rebellious element. Perhaps some of it is due to overall sexual identity (LGBT etc) and so young people are still figuring out their emotions.

Either way, I'm not going to be as righteously confident as JKR. Whilst modern medicine is a marvel, we still don't know enough about the brain and body to be absolutely confident and I am not going to argue with those who believe that they are in the wrong body - live and let live.
 Gender specific pronouns - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> I’m with JKR. No child is ‘born in the wrong body’. This is a
>> mental health crisis of spectacular scale, encouraged by weirdos.
>>

I'll agree with that. A lot of it is "Look at me, I'm different so I'm special and want to be treated as such".

From what we hear from the paperboys in the shop there are some who change their minds several times a term as to what they are.
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
>> Zippy are you referring to retail banking?

Business to business (corporate) banking.
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
>>I'm with JKR. No child is 'born in the wrong body'. This is a mental health crisis of spectacular >>scale, encouraged by weirdos.

Having mentioned the sailor before, I won't go in to detail again, but she really seems to have been.

There was also an programme on BBC R4 about a couple trying to conceive. This is more about bodies not being quite right, but the standard is XY and XX chromosome model is only a guide and there are people with XXY chromosomes which may lead to cases where bodies and brains may not match.

Basically, it's not as simple as obviously physical biology or you wouldn't get homosexual people.
Last edited by: zippy on Sat 11 Jan 25 at 15:26
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> Basically, it's not as simple as obviously physical biology or you wouldn't get homosexual people.

Whatever issues arise during what one on my OH's friends called the walking gonads phase there are plenty of adults who feel they would have been better on the other side of the fence.

I'm wary of conflating gender identity issues with sexual orientation as they're different things.

There are any number of conditions where XX or XY don't happen as they should. Some may, or may not, lead to people being allocated a sex at birth which doesn't tally with what happens at puberty.
 Gender specific pronouns - Mapmaker
>> Some may, or may not, lead to people being allocated a sex at birth which doesn't tally with what happens at puberty.

Intersex is a different kettle of fish. We are here talking about perfectly healthy children. The conflation of intersex and sex change is utterly disgusting, and done by those on the left (they always are) who are promoting this madness.

Contemplation of puberty isn’t exactly a joy for young girls. And if they’re told they can avoid it by ‘becoming’ a boy, then no wonder many choose that. Children aren’t there to be indulged like that. They are made to eat broccoli not chocolate for a reason.

And then there are working class young men who fancy other men. Culturally difficult. (Ever met a gay Premier League footballer? Thought not.) But by having their bits cut off then the can pretend to be a girl and now get other men. That’s really healthy too.

And it’s all encouraged by people who have a bizarre political reason that I’m entirely unable to fathom.

There’s a place for people encouraging mutilation of children, and it’s called gaol.

If a grown-up wants to use silly pronouns that make no grammatical sense then they’re very silly. If their actions encourage children to self mutilate then…
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Sat 11 Jan 25 at 16:21
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> Intersex is a different kettle of fish. We are here talking about perfectly healthy children.
>> The conflation of intersex and sex change is utterly disgusting, and done by those on
>> the left (they always are) who are promoting this madness.

I agree about intersex. The idea that 'sex change' is something promoted by the left I guess requires a particular standpoint which is not mine.

>> Contemplation of puberty isn’t exactly a joy for young girls. And if they’re told they
>> can avoid it by ‘becoming’ a boy, then no wonder many choose that.

A few, literally a handful, choose it. They need to be treated properly and above all promptly. If it takes from 11 to 15 to get an appointment over the issue we've failed. Broccoli and chocolate are an absurd comparison

>> And then there are working class young men who fancy other men. Culturally difficult. (Ever
>> met a gay Premier League footballer? Thought not.) But by having their bits cut off
>> then the can pretend to be a girl and now get other men. That’s really
>> healthy too.

False comparison. There ARE gay footballers. Conflating that with 'having their bits cut off' is offensive. I know at least a dozen gay men. They want to be with like minded men not turned into 'women'

>> And it’s all encouraged by people who have a bizarre political reason that I’m entirely
>> unable to fathom.

If you think it's political there's no wonder you struggle.

>> There’s a place for people encouraging mutilation of children, and it’s called gaol.

Who is encouraging mutilation still yes doing it? Once they're Gillick competent maybe it's their decision?

>> If a grown-up wants to use silly pronouns that make no grammatical sense then they’re
>> very silly. If their actions encourage children to self mutilate then…

Whatever. I think we're looking down different telescopes.
 Gender specific pronouns - Terry
I am from a generation which recognised only two genders - male and female. Any other was either deviant or homosexual. Sex and gender were based on physical attributes.

Public opinion has changed to differentiate between "sex" and "gender" and accept a wider diversity. I am pleased attitudes prevalent in my youth have been replaced by more tolerant views.

I do wonder whether gender dysmorphia is something new, or how it was dealt with in earlier less tolerant generations. Were there huge numbers of very unhappy folk, is it a condition that always existed that we now recognise, or is it something new.

The minority gender dog is now wagging the mainstream. Rather than pandering to every gender variant it seems that two still predominate - male and female. That said, all should be treated with respect irrespective of gender or sexual orientation.

The debate over sex or gender seems endless and inconclusive. The former relies upon obvious physical characteristics (bar a very small number of cases) and avoids futile discussion over whether those identifying as cats or tractors should enjoy special treatment.

The alternative is to eliminate sex and gender issues from society completely - in pursuit of equality why have separate public toilets, hospital wards, sporting tournaments etc etc etc..
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> I do wonder whether gender dysmorphia is something new, or how it was dealt with
>> in earlier less tolerant generations. Were there huge numbers of very unhappy folk, is it
>> a condition that always existed that we now recognise, or is it something new.

Whether we call it dysmorphia, dysphoria or the current preferred term gender incongruence it's been around for a long time; probably as long as humanity. Surgical responses, in my youth a sex change, goes back to the second quarter of the twentieth century.

The first high profile example in the UK was April Ashley who was outed by a red top newspaper in the early sixties.

I'm not sure I see the tail wagging dog bit although as Mrs B has retired from teaching and my kids are grown up I'm not in touch with what goes on in schools.

We're so much more willing to talk about it. Government was finally led, kicking and screaming, to legislate and of course we have Social Media.

The people I know who have gone through or are going through surgery all embarked on the journey as adults. One of them, who will now be pushing 80, explained that he had not felt right in his youth but at the time he couldn't express them so he 'knuckled down', got married and had a family.

Only after being widowed in the early noughties did they embark on the journey to their female identity. Personally I think that's very sad and it's not something people should have had to undergo.
 Gender specific pronouns - Mapmaker
This sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

1. The days when women baked cakes whilst men ran the country are long gone.
2. So what relevance does all this gender nonsense have. (I’m John today because I’m fixing my car but Jean tomorrow when I’m cooking. 150 years of fighting for gender equality destroyed in a single sentence as uttered by a 20-something girl I was talking to.)
3. Nobody cares if a woman wants to have short hair and wear dungarees. Nobody even cares if a man wants to wear a dress and makeup.
4. But what does ‘3’ have to do with gender. Roman men wore dresses.
5. ‘I don’t feel right inside’. What on earth does that mean. I don’t feel like a man; I feel like me. I can’t ever know how anybody else feels inside, nor can anybody else. Maybe I do feel like a woman would, but how could I know? It’s all absolute nonsense but encourages the mentally ill to indulge in the ultimate self-harm which is to remove their reproductive bits.

Remember from schoolBiology what makes animals animals? It includes the ability to reproduce. Take that away? Really?

Mostly we discourage the mentally ill from self harm. With this insanity the left (it’s always the left, Bromp) positively encourage it.

 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> This sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

You are perfectly entitled to say it's a problem that does not exist. I can tough assure you it very much does exist for Heather (was Barry) and the other people I've known who are gender incongruent. If you wish to use your telescope in the style of Nelson that's your choice.

One other thing, it really is not a left right issue.

Until Johnson seized the tiller the Tories were committed, as were the other main parties, to reforming the Gender Recognition Act so as to reduce the medicolegal hoop jumping involved.
 Gender specific pronouns - Mapmaker
>> (Ever
>> >> met a gay Premier League footballer? Thought not.)
>>
>> False comparison. There ARE gay footballers.

Literally one. Ever. And him only after he'd retired. So you're as wrong on this point as on the others, except on this point there is incontrovertible proof.

"German Thomas Hitzlsperger (pictured) "came out" after retirement from football; he is currently the only openly gay player to have played in England's Premier League."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

Unless your point is that there are indeed gay footballers, but the working classes aren't prepared to accept the reality of this?

Conflating that with 'having their bits cut off' is
>> offensive. I know at least a dozen gay men. They want to be with like
>> minded men not turned into 'women'

That's literally my point. But young working class men who want to sleep with other men find it easier to be turned into a woman than to come out. Being working class and gay isn't cool, so the only way to do it is to change sex. That's what's offensive.

I know (not well) three young men who like dressing in dresses and have adopted girls' names. They're troubled souls. Adding in pretending to be women isn't making them happier. Indeed it's the perfect way to ostracise yourself from people - even more than dying your hair black and having dozens of piercings.

14-year-old son of a friend of mine: 'Mummy I think I'm gay" "Oh that's nice darling, why do you think that" "There's this boy at school I fancy". Turned out said boy was actually a girl who was trying out being a boy; so he wasn't gay, merely confused by the leftist nonsense that the girl had been encouraged to adopt.

If there is a benefit to this nonsense, I'm yet to see it.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 16 Jan 25 at 14:58
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
I don't believe that working class men who want to sleep with other men find it easier to be trans, possibly with hormones and surgery, than to 'come out'.

Although people try and conflate trans with gay they're two different things.

One of the complaints of the Gender Critical Feminists, ie the JR Rowling cohort, is that men pretend to be trans and lesbian so as to sleep with women.

Neither of us is going to do a volte face on the subject and we'll have to agree to differ.
 Gender specific pronouns - Manatee
I suppose it's not always obvious and may not be obvious to everybody even when it is to somebody else.

When changing gender identity is a thing then some people will think this is relevant. Doesn't bother me either way, so to speak.
 Gender specific pronouns - Zero
Gender is unimportant, it should be neutral, so we need a completely non gender specific term to address someone.

Thing? It? you?

Hmm, Lets see what work's

"Dear Thing"

"Dear You"


Check, that works. Bit cold tho.

Wait we are all Homo Sapiens, thats a non gender specific term and all inclusive.

"Dear Homo"

Sorted.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Dec 24 at 09:28
 Gender specific pronouns - Runfer D'Hills
I worked in the premium/luxury fashion business all my life. An industry that has perhaps about the most diverse selection of individuals operating in it.
As a straight, white, mildly posh bloke I probably stood out more than most!
However, I quickly learned that in all cultural sub groups there are good people and those who are less so. How they/we wished to identify them/ourselves paled into relative insignificance in the grand scheme of things of things. People in that environment were/are simply measured by their peers on whether they were any good at their jobs and whether they were decent humans or not.
I’ve tripped up over using the wrong pronouns countless times, but as far as I’m aware, no one took any offence if it was clearly an honest mistake and I didn’t agonise about it either.
 Gender specific pronouns - Mapmaker
>> Homo is gender neutral

I mean, homo is the Latin for ‘man’ as in with-willy as well as man the species. I don’t think they’ll like it Zero.
 Gender specific pronouns - CGNorwich
Must be difficult in Romance languages like Spanish where every noun ha a gender
.
 Gender specific pronouns - VxFan
A colleague at work has one of these silly sigs

"Pronouns – happy with he/him/they"

I just identify him as a prat.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> A colleague at work has one of these silly sigs

Seems reasonable to me; a sort of 'whatever' response.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> Must be difficult in Romance languages like Spanish where every noun ha a gender

At work I leave the interpreters to deal with that...
 Gender specific pronouns - sooty123
I've seen a few people with them, can't say i can be bothered. Although people do seem to like to find things to keep adding to their signature blocks.
I doubt people are remotely bother what name they call themselves anymore than they care what obscure professional society they pay annual subs to.
 Gender specific pronouns - Terry
For thousands of years humanity has (I think) been fairly clear - there are men and women. No doubt there were some who were uncomfortable with their physical identity.

It is not clear how this was handled - I suspect individuals suppressed their gender identity concerns fearing ridicule or exclusion from a society which would not understand.

Having worked with some who display other than conventional heterosexual behaviours, my main observation is that they are as worthy of respect and tolerance as the rest of us.

If as a society we are willing to accept gender choices, gay, lesbian, equality of the sexes etc I question whether there is any point to differentiation. Simply accept there is one size fits all.

The alternative is to provide for every variant of gender and sexual orientation in case someone is offended in some way be doing otherwise.

The outcome - rather than male/female toilets we may have half a dozen or more - male, female, for gays, for lesbians, for M-F and F-M reassignments, cross dressers, convicted sexual predators etc etc.

It is a debate best summarised as "fiddling while Rome burns".
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
The issue here is gender and not sexual orientation.

Women who live as men are not new; Shakespeare covered the idea. Men as women were more common in the past than you think and I don't mean cross dressers or 'transvestites' as used to be around Leicester Sq etc of a night. Most people just let them get on it. Any lewd behaviour is dealt with exactly as in any other context.

Lesbians and gay men use the toilets etc appropriate to their birth sex and should be able to do so without it attracting any comment whatsoever.
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
>> The issue here is gender and not sexual orientation.
>>
>> Women who live as men are not new; Shakespeare covered the idea. Men as women
>> were more common in the past than you think and I don't mean cross dressers
>> or 'transvestites' as used to be around Leicester Sq etc of a night. Most people
>> just let them get on it. Any lewd behaviour is dealt with exactly as in
>> any other context.
>>
>> Lesbians and gay men use the toilets etc appropriate to their birth sex and should
>> be able to do so without it attracting any comment whatsoever.
>>

And there were eunuchs etc. too.

My viewpoint is live and let live. It all adds to the colourful fabric of life.

At least nowadays the LBGTQ community is much more accepted then it was previously, when it must have been very frightening for many and in darker times lead to execution.
 Gender specific pronouns - CGNorwich
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world, except for Lola
La-la-la-la Lola

 Gender specific pronouns - Manatee
I've been trying not to have any opinions on all this as I can't really understand the need for all the fuss and people generally should be allowed to live as they want provided it doesn't impinge unreasonably on the freedom of others to do the same.

It has just struck me that the people who make the most fuss and mock the ever expanding gender terminology are the same ones who want to divide and label everybody else.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bobby
Live and let live also applies to allow those of us that still believe gender is male or female depending on whether you have dangly bits or not.

If you have dangly bits and want to dress and live like a woman then fair enough. But don’t have a meltdown when I still refer to you as a man/ him/ he. Because that’s what you are in my gender opinion.

No one has the right to demand how other people refer to them, especially when they are trying to go against historical accepted definitions of male and female.

Wonder how long before we have parents refusing to have sex stated on a birth certificate instead waiting till the child decides what they identify as…..
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> Live and let live also applies to allow those of us that still believe gender
>> is male or female depending on whether you have dangly bits or not.
>>
>> If you have dangly bits and want to dress and live like a woman then
>> fair enough. But don’t have a meltdown when I still refer to you as a
>> man/ him/ he. Because that’s what you are in my gender opinion.

You are Jo Rowling and I claim by £5 :-P

Seriously, you're perfectly entitled to hold 'Gender Critical' beliefs but acting on them in (eg) a work context can get you in very hot water very quickly.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 21 Dec 24 at 14:44
 Gender specific pronouns - Ted

Mrs T has dangly bits. Trouble is, they start above her waistline. She does identify as female though. Ah well !

Ted
 Gender specific pronouns - bathtub tom
I presume she doesn't read this Ted?

Perhaps she's like my SWMBO who uses the phrase: cock-in-a-frock?
 Gender specific pronouns - Kevin
"A cock in a frock on a rock" - Terence Stamp as Bernadette in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

Must watch that again over Christmas.
 Gender specific pronouns - Kevin
>It has just struck me that the people who make the most fuss..

Any fuss or division is caused by those who've decided that everyone must wear a gender label so that they can advertise theirs and then throws a hissy-fit if anyone has the temerity to disagree with them.
Last edited by: Kevin on Sun 22 Dec 24 at 11:05
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>> Any fuss or division is caused by those who've decided that everyone must wear a
>> gender label so that they can advertise theirs and then throws a hissy-fit if anyone
>> has the temerity to disagree with them.

Has anybody actually done that? The people I see throwing hissy fits are the GC feminists wanting gender police at toilet doors.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
Massive thread on Mumsnet today about somebody who identifies as non binary and is uncomfortable in either gendered facility using the disabled loo at work.

The extremity of some posts there, and another thread about a teacher using Mx rather then Miss/Mrs/Ms, beggar belief.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 22 Dec 24 at 12:44
 Gender specific pronouns - tyrednemotional
>> Massive thread on Mumsnet.........
>>

In the best interests of not upsetting anyone, shouldn't that now be Parentsnet?
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
Serious Mode

It's actually straplined as by parents for parents /Serious Mode.

Somebody on another forum more or less accused me of perving for going on there as a man.

A work contact suggested it was worth looking at as education as to what people actually know about Universal Credit and how much mythology and wrong advice there is.
 Gender specific pronouns - tyrednemotional
>>........ and how much mythology and wrong advice there is.
>>

That's simply the prime function of the internet. ;-)
 Gender specific pronouns - Biggles
I thought it was there to spread conspiracy theories.
 Gender specific pronouns - Fullchat
This sums it up for me:

www.youtube.com/shorts/Tc--yWhpZ18
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
Some police forces are happy to let officers carry several warrant cards with different genders!

Great, so a woman can be searched by a police officer claiming to be female one day and male the next!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14240017/police-forces-multiple-warrant-cards-different-genders.html
 Gender specific pronouns - sooty123
I suppose some of this relates to how likely you are to know someone where this is an issue. I bet most people are more likely to meet an astronaut than they are someone transgender and so lots think it's very odd to be spending any time worrying about it.
 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
>>I bet most people are more likely to meet an astronaut
>> than they are someone transgender and so lots think it's very odd to be spending
>> any time worrying about it.

I know/know of, and can name, at least three people who are trans.

Maybe, just maybe, I missed the opportunity to meet an Astronaut at Houston c2017

 Gender specific pronouns - sooty123
I'm sure you can, but I said most not every single person.

I don't understand the second part, as I've no idea what point you're trying to make.
 Gender specific pronouns - Ted

I saw Gagarin, although he was a cosmonaut. He passed through the village in an open car on his
way from the airport to the city.

The Queen also passed through, although not in the same car. I just watched the line of cars and couldn't see her.

Vera Duckworth was a neighbour, although she wasn't an astronaut either, but she was often as high as a kite !

Ted
 Gender specific pronouns - zippy
There was an Astronaut at the Science Museum in the '00s doing a talk to small groups. Can't recall his name at the moment, but he captivated both the kids and adults at the time and shock everyone's hand at the end of the talk.
 Gender specific pronouns - Kevin
>.. and shock everyone's hand at the end of the talk.

Probably a static display.
 Gender specific pronouns - CGNorwich
I’m a pretty traditional conventional sort of guy, very conventional I suppose. I know two people who identify as transgender, one of them being a niece.



 Gender specific pronouns - martin aston
I saw Neil Armstrong receiving the Livingston Medal in Edinburgh in 1971. I didn’t meet him as there were a couple of thousand people in the audience. Nevertheless it must be a relatively rare experience as he famously shunned the limelight.

 Gender specific pronouns - Bromptonaut
ISTR Buzz Aldrin doing some publicity stuff in the UK.
 Gender specific pronouns - smokie
We happened to take the kids to the Science Museum on the day Helen Sharman was there having been announced as the first UK astronaut. I have a feeling that may have been where the announcement was but I can't really remember. We hadn't planned it.
Latest Forum Posts