Non-motoring > Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: zippy Replies: 9
View Threaded 

New Thu 28 Nov 24 12:55 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - zippy
This caught my eye:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje050wz22qo

I visited both for work and disliked them for two reasons. Firstly the hours: 10PM to 6AM, so if you wanted to meet a client's directors, it meant travelling at awful times and I put my staying up to 3AM / 4AM now, down to regular visits there.

Secondly: There was no paper trail for any sales. All business is done on a shake of the hand, as they claimed it had been done for centuries. Not great when you want to follow a trail to see whom had provided dodgy meat or fish.

Of course crooks loved this set up. They would say they sold tens of thousands of pounds worth of goods to another trader, borrow on it and then the other trader would deny ever having received the goods, whilst telling their bank that they had sold the same goods on themselves and also borrowed against it. The same stock could be borrowed against, numerous times - I guess that's fractional banking :-) One firm that I had previously had a long history of dealing with at two previous employers, and which had been in business since the early 1800s tried this on when trading proved difficult (during Covid lockdown - restaurants weren't buying meat) and subsequently defrauded their bank. The bank would have given them the Govt. guaranteed loans but they got greedy.

Receivers would go pale when told there was a job at either of these places.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Thu 28 Nov 24 13:58 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - CGNorwich
“Secondly: There was no paper trail for any sales. All business is done on a shake of the hand, as they claimed it had been done for centuries. Not great when you want to follow a trail to see whom had provided dodgy meat or fish.”

Intrigued

So if I buy 3 stone of cod from a merchant then how does he record who he has deliver it to and how much he is owed for the fish. How is it invoiced and what records are kept for tax purposes?
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Thu 28 Nov 24 14:36 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - zippy
Oh invoices are raised, tax accounts were kept, there was no evidence of any agreement to sell / buy and no delivery note signed by the receiving party. The invoices were basically a fabrication for the bank. VAT is zero rated for most meats etc.

In the case of cold stores, the meat (and worse fish) would "sit on the same shelve" but change ownership without moving. Several banks would be funding the same piece of meat.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 15:16 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - Zero

>> So if I buy 3 stone of cod from a merchant then how does he
>> record who he has deliver it to and how much he is owed for the
>> fish. How is it invoiced and what records are kept for tax purposes?

Lot of it "used" to be done in cash, buyer went in, a name was slapped on the crate or carcass, cash changed hands, porters (not "paid" but "tipped") carried it to a lorry or van that arrived and left.

At Smithfield that all died out when "traceability" arrived due to BSE and mad cow.

In my early previous work life I would be in and around both areas, fascinating places, and unusual pub opening hours. There used to be a railway siding under smithfield, where steam trains would arrive loaded with livestock vans.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 17:39 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - zippy
Pubs had special licences to open when the market closed.

Still no signed delivery notes as late as 2022 for most deliveries. One of the butchers that I worked with at Smithfield says he was owed £40m from trade customers with turnover of £150m. It's not small change and is a long way from cash, which yes, it used to be. Try turning the £40m in to cash when customers haven't signed to say that they have received the goods!

I wonder if New Covent Garden will go the same way?
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 18:24 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - Zero

>> I wonder if New Covent Garden will go the same way?

yes it is already being mooted. At the end of the day, their centralised nature is a thing of the past, wholesale markets are fading away everywhere as producers connect with retailers by e-commerce
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 19:18 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - Zero
>> yes it is already being mooted. At the end of the day, their centralised nature
>> is a thing of the past, wholesale markets are fading away everywhere as producers connect
>> with retailers by e-commerce

The advantage of course, is that we consumers now can get the much smaller "farmers market". experience.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 21:23 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - smokie
Small drift...

My f-i-l and his bro inherited the family greengrocer business, two open fronted shops about 400 yards apart, diagonally opposite each other at a crossroads in Leytonstone High St.

As his son in law I worked in f-i-l's shop on Saturdays (not open on Sundays of course) at weekends for a free bag of greengrocery and a free flat over the one of the shops, till we could afford a mortgage. Working in the shop was b***** freezing in winter (as was the flat!), and you had to keep tally all in your head (and work out e.g. what three potatoes cost based on what fraction of a lb they were - no ready reckoner on those scales!!).

Anyway, every day one or other of the brothers went up in their lorry to Covent Garden market in London, leaving at 3am, buying their stock, and returning to the shops then doing a full and fairly hard days' work, till the shops closed about 6 IIRC.

No idea if it was cash though... or if it's still there. New Covent Garden now I believe, probably with a different function...

It was the supermarkets which killed their business.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 22:17 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - zippy
>>It was the supermarkets which killed their business.

Along with butchers, many pharmacies, independent clothes and shoe shops, school uniform shops, the milk delivery, wine merchant, card shop, toyshop etc. etc. etc.

and the death of our high streets.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
New Fri 29 Nov 24 22:22 
 Smithfield and Billingsgate to Close? - bathtub tom
>> I wonder if New Covent Garden will go the same way?

Covent Garden. Went to Hatton Garden in the late 60s, early 70s with (what is now) SWMBO to buy an engagement ring - it cost £29 IIRC. Looking for somewhere to park, I saw a car park sign directing me through what i thought was an almost impossible narrow gap for my A35. It turned out to be the barrow entrance into Covent Garden. The guy that challenged me was so impressed I managed to get through, he directed me where to park.
Reply to this message | Report message
       
Latest Forum Posts