Non-motoring > Removing a chimeny breast Miscellaneous
Thread Author: smokie Replies: 19
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 14:04 
 Removing a chimeny breast - smokie
Over a beer or two in in the (partial) sun in Portugal this morning SWMBO and I were discussing future house decorating plans i our early 70s Taylor Wimpey house.

One room this year is likely to be the lounge. It has a chimney breast which rather narrows it and if the price and collateral damage was manageable I'd quite like to get rid of it.

I'm not back for 6 weeks to start inviting builders to quote so in the meantime I just wondered what people here think it might involve and, roughly, cost.

It's a shared chimney with next door but I think he's already taken out his downstairs side at least.

The chimney went years ago when we both had solar panels installed.

I still have the upstairs breast and the bit n the loft. I'd probably sooner neither of these went but it depend how it might affect the job.

My own guesstimate if it were just the downstairs chimney is about 5 days work and less than £500 "parts". So given the inflated prices we have in our area I'd put the total around £3k tops, including all the making good.

I have no idea how the costs might rise if the upper breast and loft bits had to be removed.

Any thoughts?
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 15:23 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Zero
let me know, its on my todo list..........
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 15:33 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Bromptonaut
If you're not removing the whole thing up to the roofline make sure what's left is adequately supported.

We lost a buyer for our Victorian terraced house in Watford because their surveyor found the remnants left in the loft and made a thing of the risk of it falling into the master bedroom.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 13 Mar 24 at 15:34
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 15:50 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Manatee
>> If you're not removing the whole thing up to the roofline make sure what's left
>> is adequately supported.
>>
>> We lost a buyer for our Victorian terraced house in Watford because their surveyor found
>> the remnants left in the loft and made a thing of the risk of it
>> falling into the master bedroom.

This happened to a friend of mine. He found the unsupported chimney in the roof space, got an engineer's report and sued the surveyor who'd done his survey when he bought it. They tried to wriggle out of it but he recovered the cost of sorting it in the end. About £3,000 20 years ago.

A technical term to throw in is "gallows bracket":)
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 18:00 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Terry
I believe gallows bracket are no longer allowed under current UK building regulation.

Leaving, possibly, a couple of tons of masonry on the first floor and loft unsupported would be a risk too far in my view.

You also need to understand, if a party wall, what changes your neighbour has made as this could affect the structural integrity.

I would get a properly qualified structural engineer to advise on the right solution and guide you through any regulatory hurdles.

Aside from the physical risk of collapse with a substandard job, an insurance company would likely refuse any claim, and if/when the property is sold would likely be a serious survey negative.
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 18:35 
 Removing a chimeny breast - smokie
Must admit I wasn't really thinking of leaving the upper bits unsupported, I assumed something could be done in the lounge ceiling to provide the necessary support and taking out the higher level(s) is an option, but a very undesirable one due to the additional work & cost (decorating & carpeting, as much as anything).

I imagine the majority of the loft bit could probably go fairly easily to reduce weight but without being there to have look I don't know if it is supporting the roof in any way, and if so, how that'd be addressed.

I'd already thought I'd speak to the neighbour to see what he's done, as they have def done some things their side but I can't recall quite what. I hope hasn't made any changes which inhibit what I can do!!!

I do have a plasterer acquaintance up the road who I'm hoping will flatten the (Artexed) ceilings and, if necessary, smooth the walls, and might have some idea on the chimney. I don't really want to pay a structural engineer to tell me what is required if it is likely to be way beyond my budget.
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 19:42 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Fullchat
In my humble opinion, and I'm in no way a structural engineer but I would imagine the only way to safely hold up the remnants of a chimney breast upstairs, and presumably the loft, is to either reinstate the brickwork downstairs to foundation level or some form of structural support. Or place steels underneath to support the remaining brickwork with the steel load being transferred to supporting walls.
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 19:48 
 Removing a chimeny breast - tyrednemotional
..the aforementioned "Gallows Bracket" is just such a support.

I'm not sure they are banned, but they are/have been subject to strict Building Regs, and use, if still allowed would be critically dependent on what had been done the other side of the party wall.

Not always the prettiest solution either.
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 18:37 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Manatee
Absolutely get professional cover.

I'm pretty sure you will need council (BC) sign off and should have a party wall agreement to do it properly. If you're lucky the council will be helpful if you ring them up and tell you if they want load calculations etc. I suspect they will, in which case you will need the structural engineer.

I'm sure some ignorant house owners and builders just take a sledgehammer to it - I know of one person whose neighbour literally knocked a hole into his front room.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 13 Mar 24 at 18:40
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 18:51 
 Removing a chimeny breast - smokie
I feel my £5k budget is on it's way out of the window!!
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 20:33 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Manatee
Not necessarily.

This is what Southend Council say, if it's up to date. Yours might have something similar.

www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/file/1417/removing-a-chimney-leaflet#:~:text=If%20you%20want%20to%20remove,illustrated%20below%20is%20one%20way.
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New Thu 14 Mar 24 08:58 
 Removing a chimeny breast - smokie
Thanks, that's a useful document
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New Thu 14 Mar 24 09:08 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Zero
>> I feel my £5k budget is on it's way out of the window!!

Up in smoke......
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New Wed 13 Mar 24 17:44 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Biggles
One thought - you could ask Julie Andrews for a tune.
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New Thu 14 Mar 24 09:09 
 Removing a chimeny breast - bathtub tom
>> One thought - you could ask Julie Andrews for a tune.

Didn't she put an additional 'e' in it as well as smokie's?
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New Thu 14 Mar 24 13:48 
 Removing a chimeny breast - smokie
Oh!! LOL I'd not noticed!!! I now understand the Julie Andrews comment!! LOL
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New Thu 14 Mar 24 19:45 
 Removing a chimeny breast - legacylad

>> Didn't she put an additional 'e' in it as well as smokie's?
>>
As in e ba gum ?
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New Thu 14 Mar 24 20:34 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Biggles
Chim chiminey
Chim chiminey
Chim chim cher-ee!
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New Tue 26 Mar 24 19:11 
 Removing a chimeny breast - Boxsterboy
It all depends on the loads involved and if your neighbour has already taken his chimney out that will help, but normally gallows brackets are no longer acceptable to District Surveyors, and the usual solution is to run a beam from the back wall to the front wall parallel to the party wall to support the remains of the chimney off the main elevations. Not easy, not cheap.

Then there's the requirement to serve Party Wall Notice. If your neighbour has already taken his out (without a party wall agreement?) he can't really dissent to your Notice now, can he? So that aspect might be simple.

Structural engineer is needed to properly advise, with full knowledge of the construction of your house and knowledge of what has happened next door.

Depending on the size of the room, I often feel that reception rooms miss a certain 'something' without a fireplace/chimney breast.
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New Tue 26 Mar 24 23:44 
 Removing a chimeny breast - smokie
"reception rooms miss a certain 'something' without a fireplace/chimney breast."

Ours has no fireplace but it does have a nice pair of matching display units each side, with some "interesting" contents. Not sure what we'd do with them (or the contents) if the chimney breast were to go, which is why I'm not too driven to make the change - but the room is a bit narrow with it there. As I'm planning to decorate (and re-carpet) the room it's probably the last opportunity to do it, if we want to.

The chimney itself was a joint one and we took it off when we had a bloke round doing some other work, as I was fed up with strangers telling me how it needed re-pointing. So what's left is just the bits in the lounge, bedroom and loft.

I've started looking round for a structural engineer but I am also going to see if I can get a rough estimate of cost from a builder or two as if it is going to cost too much then I don't really want to pay an engineer as well for what may turn out to be a nugatory piece of work.
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