Non-motoring > More 737 Woes	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: zippy	Replies: 33

New Sat 6 Jan 24 15:58   More 737 Woes - zippy

That old adage: "If it's not a Boeing, I'm not going" seems to warrant a change to "If it's a Boeing, I'm not going"! www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 16:15   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

Seems as though a panel where, on some versions of the Max 9 there would be an additional door, blew out at about 16,000 feet. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 16:31   More 737 Woes - zippy

Yes, so it seems. Not good. Could have been a disaster if someone wasn't strapped in and the aircraft was at a higher altitude. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 16:34   More 737 Woes - bathtub tom

I saw a report that said it was thirty-odd minutes into the flight and de-pressurised. I'd expect most passengers would've undone their seatbelts. Were they lucky none ejected? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 17:58   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> I saw a report that said it was thirty-odd minutes into the flight and de-pressurised. >> I'd expect most passengers would've undone their seatbelts. Were they lucky none ejected? According to the BBC the whole flight was about 40mins 16:52-17:27. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 19:25   More 737 Woes - Zero

FAA has grounded 171 737 Max 9's. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 21:04   More 737 Woes - CGNorwich

It only the version 9 that's currently grounded then? I flew with Air Canada on the version 8 in October. From a customer point of view its a nice plane. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 21:10   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> It only the version 9 that's currently grounded then? I flew with Air Canada on >> the version 8 in October. From a customer point of view its a nice plane. Seems to be related to versions with the facility for an extra door, possibly emergency only like the over wing exits, that's only needed in very high capacity versions. This one had the cut outs etc but as they flew with lower seating numbers it wasn't actually a door. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 6 Jan 24 at 21:11 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 21:58   More 737 Woes - Kevin

>This one had the cut fall outs etc... One of the photos taken on the ground from inside the cabin appears to show that the whole skin panel has come away in one piece with 4 upper securing brackets and their bolts still attached to the formers. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 20:02   More 737 Woes - Biggles

About 7 minutes by the look of it. www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA1282 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 20:43   More 737 Woes - Fursty Ferret

My previous employer was in the process of deciding between expanding their existing fleet of 737s, or switching entirely to A320s. The price was about the same but the issue was that the equivalent A320 is heavier than the 737, which has a cost penalty over the lifetime. A senior manager was dispatched to Toulouse to find out why. Reportedly he came back, sucked his teeth, and said “build quality”. They bought the Airbus. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 21:20   More 737 Woes - Manatee

Were I given to worrying about these things, i.e. if I ran an airline, the story behind MCAS would worry me. If they can take a short cut like that, under-developing and concealing information about what turned out to be a major software change, what else have they done with the MAX that puts profit above safety? Incredible that such a company should behave so recklessly, in a way that suggests they misunderstand their own industry. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 21:58   More 737 Woes - Zero

>> Incredible that such a company should behave so recklessly, in a way that suggests they >> misunderstand their own industry. The real worry was the way they subverted the FAA over a period of time before the crashes, and the way airlines were happy to jump back into their product lines. Shows they understood the industry far too well. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 20:45   More 737 Woes - Zero

Its not the total flight time that does for airframes, its the up and down flight cycles. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 24 21:05   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> Its not the total flight time that does for airframes, its the up and down >> flight cycles. Both. And both are recorded. The 737 in Hawaii that lost a chunk of fuselage was low(ish) hours but high cycles. In this case it's a pretty well brand new frame. My guess is it's either manufacturing or modifications with something not matching as it should - like the BA 1-11 that lost its windscreen way back when. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 24 14:52   More 737 Woes - CGNorwich

>> I'd expect most passengers would've undone their seatbelts. Were they lucky none ejected? >> I always keep my seatbelt fastened, just loosened a little. Seems sensible. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 24 15:35   More 737 Woes - Rudedog

One of the TV interviews lastnight with a passenger said that there was a child sitting in the seat where the panel broke away and it was only their mother holding onto them stopped something very bad happening. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 24 17:03   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> One of the TV interviews lastnight with a passenger said that there was a child >> sitting in the seat where the panel broke away and it was only their mother >> holding onto them stopped something very bad happening. Not seen the Ma holding on bit but apparently the kid's shirt was pulled over his head and lost in the force of the decompression. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 24 23:18   More 737 Woes - henry k

>>a passenger said that there was a child sitting in the seat where the panel broke away From what I have read, a "teenager" was sitting in the "C" seat, i.e. furthest from the window. All the seat cushions of seats A and B ( held on by velcro ) exited with other small items. Not sure how mum held on unless it was from the row behind. Of course seats A B and C are all in one bolted down unit. No reports yet of any findings on the ground. The oxygen masks not needed by most folks but look pretty. A good reminder to belt up ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 06:23   More 737 Woes - Duncan

They have found the lump of plane that blew out. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67909417 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 10:43   More 737 Woes - henry k

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/01/08/boeing-737-alaska-airlines-plane-door-plug/ Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 18:15   More 737 Woes - Zero

thats gonna wreck the man from Norwich's new tyre Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 06:25   More 737 Woes - Duncan

>> I always keep my seatbelt fastened, just loosened a little. Seems sensible. >> Norfolk man has it right. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 12:51   More 737 Woes - Manatee

They had been c. 3 pressurisation warnings on previous flights. The airline was concerned enough to exclude the aircraft from flying over water. I expect questions as to why they thought it was ok to fly at all before they had identified the cause of the warnings. Otherwise what is the point of warnings. It wasn't going to mend itself. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 13:31   More 737 Woes - sooty123

>> They had been c. 3 pressurisation warnings on previous flights. The airline was concerned enough >> to exclude the aircraft from flying over water. >> >> I expect questions as to why they thought it was ok to fly at all >> before they had identified the cause of the warnings. Otherwise what is the point of >> warnings. It wasn't going to mend itself. >> I believe they had carried out maintenance work after each warning. That's what the airline said in one of the news reports. The no one water flights may well have been a reasonable Lim with information at the time. There's no information about the nature of the cabin pressurisation issues, they may have been linked or not. Three is the minimum to put a trend together, but cabin pressurisation is a big system so not always easy to make that trend. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 14:28   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> I believe they had carried out maintenance work after each warning. That's what the airline >> said in one of the news reports. The no one water flights may well have >> been a reasonable Lim with information at the time. Each fault was followed up by maintenance with the indicator being reset. It's not clear from what I've seen - the Safety Board are producing regular updates - whether any actual fault was found. Further investigations were scheduled but the aircraft was dispatched for the incident flight beforehand. There is also an issue that the Cockpit Voice Recorder wasn't stopped after landing so the incident was over written! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 16:11   More 737 Woes - sooty123

The system would normally be reset with an ibit so that's not much out of the ordinary there nor is it, on it's own, indicative of a common fault. Yes i read the crew forgot to trip the CB. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 24 17:15   More 737 Woes - bathtub tom

I find it worrying that the cockpit door flew open. I thought those things were supposed to be locked securely enough to deter a terrorist attack. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 24 10:15   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> I find it worrying that the cockpit door flew open. I thought those things were >> supposed to be locked securely enough to deter a terrorist attack. I thought that too but then there may be something that's designed to break at a certain load rather than distort or cause further damage with a pressure differential across it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 24 13:26   More 737 Woes - Zero

>> I thought that too but then there may be something that's designed to break at >> a certain load rather than distort or cause further damage with a pressure differential across >> it. Yeah its designed to resist force from passenger cabin to cockpit, not t'other way round. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 24 13:28   More 737 Woes - Zero

So, loose bolts have been found. That carries a two way sword for Boeing. On the good side, its not a structural design defect, on the bad side its a fundamental failure of quality control. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 24 17:52   More 737 Woes - Biggles

Or is designed to release in the event of a fire so that the fire fighters have a chance of rescuing unconscious pilots. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 24 21:00   More 737 Woes - zippy

Seeing some photos of the 737 on the news, it looks like the door impacted the tail fin as it departed the aircraft. There are some scratches on the tail. We would likely be looking at a very different outcome if the tail were seriously damaged. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 24 22:17   More 737 Woes - Bromptonaut

>> There are some scratches on the tail. We would likely be looking at a very >> different outcome if the tail were seriously damaged. Damaged it or got caught on the stabiliser.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan-Air_Flight_240 Reply to this message | Report message