Of course I’m posting of behalf of a friend…Most here will know I rarely post anything very serious, but here goes…
Anyway, this friend of mine has a dilemma. He’s 65 and could retire anytime. He doesn’t have to, and in fact keeps being incentivised to stay, but he’s had enough, and wants to retire. However, it
is, or was anyway, a wee bit functional of his wife continuing to work for a few more years. She’s 6 years younger than him. The wild card in here is that she has recently discovered that she has an incurable medical condition that will mean she has to give up her quite well paid job. It may or may not be life threatening, but the prognosis is not good.
He has asked me what I think he should do.
My view is that we all only get one kick of life’s ball and that they should just have some fun together while time and fitness to have it allows. He’s struggling with that thought a bit, as it might cause some challenging changes to their long term prosperity.
In this strange online place where one has friends that we don’t actually know, it feels like a good place to ask for opinions or indeed criticism.
Thanks!
(I think) ;-)
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We were in a similar position, when SWMBO was told she may have ovarian cancer (at Christmas time!). Fortunately it wasn't, but a different type of the big C and she's had four years since. We're both 'coffin dodgers', having had our 'three score and ten'.
I'd say carpe diem and do whatever you want.
ps. She's six years younger, the old cradle snatcher?
pps. Is she not eligible for 'early medical retirement'?
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How will your friend feel if he dithers until it's possibly too late to make the decision?
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Re “early medical retirement” don’t know BT, but thanks for the steer.
Yes Kevin, I think that’s where he is…
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I have a friend who tells me that 6 years younger is definitely not cradle snatching.
Cradle snatching is 20 years younger. And the rest.
Not that there would be much :-)
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Mrs A and I are in good health but we are of similar ages to your friends. I retired 10 years ago and Mrs A retired last year. Our incomes took a hit but our outgoings dropped too. Working costs a surprising amount of money.
Luckily we were able to plan both retirements and each time we forecast our post retirement incomes and lived within those for a year or more before committing to the decision. Your friends may not have that luxury but can still do it as a paper exercise.
Even if medical retirement is not an option they may well have pensions that they can draw early with an actuarial reduction. Sorry to be morbid but cashing in may be an option if the health prognosis is not good.
More positively it’s worth checking that they will get full state pension and addressing any NI gaps as appropriate.
A good financial advisor can help with plans to address their particular circumstances.
Finance aside, retirement suits some folks better than others. My job was very pressured and I hated it latterly. Retirement gave me a better perspective on life. My wife liked her job but loves retirement. For example having time to spend with our grandchildren. But you have to be prepared to rub along just the two of you for a lot more time than when you are working, giving each other space when they need it.
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I'm in the retire when/if you can afford it group.
How will her condition affect her in terms of daily living and mobility?
If he's 65 then presumably State Pension age is 66 so he's in sight of the winning post as it were.
Does he know how much his, and hers in 7/8 years time, will be?
If he retires does that need to be full retirement - could he carry on in some form part time, consultancy or similar?
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As previously mentioned, its surprising how much money you actually spend "working". Its also surprising how easy it is to wind back on a previously affluent lifestyle. I retired early, and I took the view that one has to have security of tenure so took a chunk from the pension to pay off the mortgage ,which is a great reliever, and cut back on lifestyle (forced to drive a mitsi lancer!) to tide over till pensions kicked in fully. It was pretty stress free.
So retire? yes your friend should.
Medical conditions? no ideas what your friends wife morbidity projection is, but if serious, early medical retirement is a possibility. In your friends position, its a no brainer, what is the point of working when you could be enjoying time together. You cant take the money with you, and when you reach the stage of gaga, the state is going to take your money to pay for your care anyway.
Your friend should retire. shortly, and enjoy life while he is still fit to do so.
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It's feeling somewhat unanimous and I've not got a lot to add but I finished a contract at age 59 and on the spur of the moment decided enough was enough. No state pension till 66 and no gold plated pension but I did have a fairly sizeable pot when I cashed in my pension.
SWMBO is same age as me but didn't think she wanted to stop work, that the people would miss her and the company would fold without her (well, almost!). It took her another 4/5 years to decide, only to find about a year or so in that the company was still going strong and nearly everyone there had either moved on or forgotten her. She would say now she wished she'd done it earlier.
Our health is OK and if she'd done it, it would have compromised our longer term pension a bit but would have been worth it for us both. Though I did enjoy a few years of relative "freedom" including solo trips to Egypt etc!! And we're both of the opinion that hoarding cash isn't a priority any more. If the girls just end up sharing our house after we've gone they'll be doing OK...
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 1 Nov 23 at 09:18
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Ask yourself how long would you keep working if they were not paying you?
My in laws put off retirement till 65 when they almost certainly could have given up earlier, then my MIL was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and died when she was 68. Spent most of the retirement in ill health / on treatment.
Get out of there as early as you can, and enjoy whatever years of reasonable health you are afforded.
With a following wind I may manage to retire at 55 - I am certainly off as soon as I can afford it!
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The only thing I would add is that the happiest two people I know over retirement age are still working well into their seventies.
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I was offered voluntary redundancy package at age 58 and nervously (for financial reasons) accepted it. I have absolutely no regrets. Some thoughts based on my experience:
- at age 65 you are "at risk". You may have 20 years of good health, you may have none
- you will probably need less, not more money in retirement than when working
- an ego deflator - you are not essential, the company will continue without you
Your friend needs to ensure that they are financially comfortable whatever the health outlook.
Most of us ~20 years growing up, ~30-40 years working (raising a family, paying off mortgage).
Spending any remaining time with the freedom to do whatever interests/motivates is a privilege not to be ignored. "You can't take it with you" is not a signal for gross over indulgence, but a reality not to be dismissed lightly.
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I can only think of one person i know worked into their 70s, he was addicted to saving money. Nearly ended in divorce well beyond SPA.
The rest that retired 55-60 never regretted, that I could tell anyway, i don't think any wished they'd worked another 10 years (or even 5) or so.
Depends on the person as well, some need to keep busy with work as that's a large part of who they are and are lost without it. A person's renumeration comes into it as well, someone with lots of perks, flexibility to wfh, mamage their workload, good pay etc will look at the go/stay question very differently to those on minimum wage zero hour contract. Retirement can look quite different to different people.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 1 Nov 23 at 10:08
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"The only thing I would add is that the happiest two people I know over retirement age are still working well into their seventies."
Talking of 70s, I remember assisting running pre-retirement courses at the Coal Board in the 70s, and one important take-aways was to have a hobby or two which take you away from your partner so you both have a bit of a break.
I recall it was framed that you will now be spending a lot more time at home, where you wife has been king (queen maybe) while you've been working, and anything you do will be interrupting her long established routines.
Different days then :-) but it remains a valid point.
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Well -
"My view is that we all only get one kick of life’s ball and that they should just have some fun together while time and fitness to have it allows".
You said it yourself. We don't have a very clear idea of what is round the corner. Take the chance while he can.
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I thnk you've got it spot-on too, Runfer.
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Took reduced pension at 50, cut down to 2 days/wk (because I am an inherently lazy sod) but am doing a locum day each week while a colleague is on mat leave. Pension lump sum has effectively paid off the mortgage.
My view is it allows me complete flexibility - I can live off my pension/savings/investments but not ready to hang the stethoscope up yet.
Missus had leukaemia in 2019 which is showing no sign of returning, and the pandemic demonstrated you don't need to spend £££££. Old man died in 2019 at 79 after 6-7 years of progressive invalidity.
I have a career that allows a fairly flexible approach of course: not everyone has that luxury.
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1. I have a friend whose mum and died both died within 8 months of retiring. Had a pension fund in excess of half a million and never got the benefit of it. We’re always saving for a rainy day. Their dream was to go on the Orient Express but there couldn’t afford it. When they died, both from cancer, they had £30k in bank accounts.
2. My wife and sister both work as nurses at the local hospice. Both have absolutely no sense of saving for a rainy day and instead live each day as your last. Sister “retired” at 56 and does bank shifts as and when she needs to top up the money. Both have heard hundreds of patients last words and regrets. They have never heard any patient complain that they wished they had worked longer or that their house was tidier!
Retire.
Now.
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I think this friend already knows the answer.
In the meantime, I’m monitoring fresh snowflakes in the Alps, my Monday ‘Explorers’ group on the C Blanca were sheltering in the shade of trees 48 hours ago, and I’m thinking why the heck did I return from Spain after 6 weeks when my 95yo mum ( with Alzheimer’s) was happy in her Care Home costing her £1600 a week.
Spend any savings whilst you have the wherewithal to enjoy the hard earned.
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Your friend could perhaps take a little part time job after he retires full time, keep a bit of ready cash flowing in?
I stopped working full time five years ago and work part time in a newsagents. Seven am start but I'm home by eleven and in addition to the money it gives me a reason to shift out of bed in the mornings. It keeps body and brain active and is as stress free as it gets.
I've had a few careers and jobs in my working life and that is the happiest place I've ever worked. We all get on great and share a similar (Warped) sense of humour. Why not suggest to your friend that he considers the same?
My best wishes to his wife, BTW.
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Thanks everyone. Sometimes it’s just useful to confirm your own thoughts with unbiased others in case you’re missing something. The answer is clear as day.
;-)
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The answer is Brittany Ferries. Bikes on the roof. Basque Country. Great food. Lovely people. Amazing scenery. And only 24 hours away across the water.
Apart from the next few days with 9 metre waves.
You know it makes sense.
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Commodore class stateroom of course.
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I would hate to be on a ferry that long. Even the Holyhead-Dublin route that I’ve often used is painfully boring. For Ireland crossings I mostly go up to Cairnryan to get the short crossing.
For mainland European destinations I’d far rather use the tunnel to France and drive further.
There are “others” on ferries too. ;-)
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There is a quiet reading room on the Santona, which I took advantage of. If the weather is favourable...it was when I departed Plymouth mid September on the Pont Aven at noon, it was lovely on deck watching dolphins, of which there were plenty, Reading, snoozing, before a nice evening meal, although I preferred the Azul restaurant on the former.
By late morning next day I was away from Santander heading east....24 hours passed quickly, and personally I prefer the shorter crossing to the two nighters.
Saves the drive through France, tolls, etc
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>> I would hate to be on a ferry that long.
I have friends who are currently at South Georgia on a polar expedition cruise from Uruguay via The Falklands, South Georgia and The South Shetlands, then back to Argentina.
I'd be quite interested in the land locations, but the mix is a short time on land, and an awful lot at sea (multiple days at a time).
The ship only takes around 100 passengers, so isn't the biggest. The phrase "cabin fever" could have been coined for that trip. I'd be crawling up the walls!
"I spy with my little eye, something beginning with "s"". :-(
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I don’t really like people. I know I am one myself, but I’m not keen on most of the others! I like trees, mountains, beaches and dogs, but I can take or leave humans!
;-)
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Wishes of an Elderly Man
wish I loved the Human Race;
I wish I loved its silly face;
I wish I liked the way it walks;
I wish I liked the way it talks;
And when I'm introduced to one
I wish I thought What Jolly Fun!
Walter Raleigh
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>> I wish I thought What Jolly Fun!
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>> Walter Raleigh
Raleigh would be Nashing his teeth at that attribution surely?
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"Raleigh would be Nashing his teeth at that attribution surely?"
Actually I think he would be rather pleased. Sir Walter Alexander Raleigh, (born Sept. 5, 1861, was an academic, author and poet and occasional writer of humorous verse. Probably now known mostly for the verse I quoted, more fully entitled "Wishes of an Elderly Man Wished at a Garden Party, June 1914". Sadly his masterpiece "To a Lady with an Unruly and Ill-mannered Dog Who Bit several Persons of Importance is now less well known.
I suspect you are confusing him with that tiresome Elizabethan sailor chap who went around throwing cloaks over puddles, importing tobacco and ended up having his head cut
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 3 Nov 23 at 15:14
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I didn’t know that - thanks, CG!
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I’ve used the ferries to Spain a couple of times. Once I’d retired my attitude to time changed and, having plenty of it, I found it easy to while away the journey. Food in the restaurant was also very good. Different when I was working and very impatient, at that time I found ferries tedious.
Not so handy though if you have to drive the length of the U.K. to get to the port. Don’t write off Northern Spain though. I am sure you can fly-drive from local airports.
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My experience - typically travelling out in November, back in February.
Marketing spin - cruise to the sun, relax, be entertained, fine cuisine, pictures of happy smiling people. What's not to like?
Reality - delayed due to bad weather, dingy cabin, waves breaking over the front of the ship, ambulances waiting to carry off the wounded on arrival. Horrible doesn't do it justice.
June - August the reality may approach the brochure. Personally I happily drive down through France - costs no more, adds a day to the journey.
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'What's not to like?'
All the blokes on the boat.
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What do you think? - bathtub tom
