| Non-motoring > Shouldnt really happen these days | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Stuu | Replies: 23 |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 12:11
Shouldnt really happen these days - Stuu
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www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317834/Holly-Stuckey-dies-fathers-arms-tormented-school-bullies.html Seems bullying in schools is no nearer to being tackled than it ever was. Atleast when I was at school, you could have a go back. Now your supposed to sit and suffer while the school sits on its hands. Typical limp wristed statement from the school too. Whatever happened to 'sorry'? |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 12:46
Shouldnt really happen these days - Bromptonaut
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| Teenage girls can be absolute witches but TBH there's not much in the way of fact in the Mail story. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 13:08
Shouldnt really happen these days - Fenlander
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I'm sorry Stu. I am strongly anti-bullying in all areas of life (even forums!) but... It's a typical Daily Mail scare story. Tragically a girl has died due to some medical event and the parents are looking for someone to blame... it's a common feeling after the death of a child. The dad is a senior care worker with, you'd assume, some experience in this field... did he not sense anything was wrong in his childs life and chat to her? The school statement is one of fact explaining their bullying policy in line with all schools these days. If bullying was a factor in this girls life it seems she'd not reported it and that is a crucial first step without which the school is powerless. Both our girls suffered degrees of bullying when they went to a secondary school out of their area leaving their primary school friends behind. In their first year while finding their feet both experienced physical and mental acts of bullying. By chatting to them and observing their friendships we could tell all was not well and talked things through untill they gave us enough information to present to the school. The school acted on this information within a couple of hours during the day and hauled in the bullies. They were told in no uncertain terms it was absolutely not on and must stop there and then. They were also told to further continue the bullying to punish our girls for reporting it would instantly result in parents being involved and suspension. Our girls had no further troubles after this other than the usual challange of forming new friendships and now some years on each has a couple of the bullies as a good friend. Teenage girls can be cruel in their formative years but the combination of aware parents and a strong school policy can bring swift relief. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 14:04
Shouldnt really happen these days - Stuu
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Perhaps its not linked but its still not good that it goes undetected. Bullying can be detected, its a myth that it must be reported for it to come to the attention of the school - ive been there, I know, anyone trained to recognised the signs ( all staff should be armed with this knowledge as a matter of course ) should easily spot it victims in a group or even potential victims - bullies can do that so no excuse for a teacher. The most effective solution I saw when I was working with bullied kids was to offer some form of monitored sanctuary where staff are at all times - I saw this work very effectively because it offers a place that they CAN be safe in the school building outside of class. It doesnt solve the bullying, but it does offer relief from the immense stress it can cause and in the cases I saw, it drew many undetected victims in. It is true that some bullying is sorted out in-house, fair enough if it works, but it often doesnt and it relies on either the victim or their parents to report it - not good enough im afraid. I remember several times when I was under particular stress at school that I developed a genuine high fever and was sent home from school, which subsided within an hour of arriving home, so Im not entirely convinced that it cannot affect your physical health. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 14:13
Shouldnt really happen these days - Iffy
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...There's not much fact in the story...It's a typical Daily Mail scare story... The girl's dead, that's a fact, and the bullying line is stood up by the letters found in her bedroom. It is a typical Daily Mail story in that they write about the lives of hard-working middle class families. This is their core readership, and they'd be rather dumb to write about much else. It seems to me the girl has taken a typical first step in confiding in a piece of paper, which may have led to the more formal route Fenlander describes. The girl had a medical condition and the parents will know there is no chance anyone will answer for her death. The publicity may act as a warning shot to some of the nasty little wretches at the school, which might not be a bad thing. It may also shake-up the school's teachers and management, again, no bad thing. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:08
Shouldnt really happen these days - Fenlander
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>>>Bullying can be detected, its a myth that it must be reported for it to come to the attention of the school. It's not that simple. Bullying, with girls in particular, can be quite subtle and take places out of sight of staff... and as I say much of it these days follows through online out of school where the teachers have no control over problems. >>>offer some form of monitored sanctuary where staff are at all times. Well very short term in extreme cases to avoid physical harm maybe but why make the bullied look like victims any more than they already are by denying them access to the other parts of the school and other potential friends. It is the bullies, if anyone, that should be somewhere special! The best places for those that have been bullied are clubs associated with their interests where the groups are smaller, more involved and where those children can gain true friends through shared interests. >>>Im not entirely convinced that it cannot affect your physical health. Agreed a stress headache or migraine symptoms can be triggered by the pressure of bullying but that's a long way from a parent (or the Daily Mail) trying to link possible bullying and a child's death. There needs to be an open culture where it is not something to be ashamed of to report bullying.... difficult I know but very important because without secrecy the bullies lose much of their power. Also parents need to be aware that it can, and quite likely will, happen to their child at some point. Keeping up converstaions with your child and looking for clues in their behaviour/friendship groups makes it probably easier for a parent to see what's happening than a teacher in a class of 30+ or at breaktimes with 2000 kids about the school. Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 5 Oct 10 at 17:09
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:25
Shouldnt really happen these days - Marc
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"Atleast when I was at school, you could have a go back" Don't know how old you are Stu but c 1980 the policy I still remember was 'count to ten and walk away'. I told my mother this and she said if someone hits you make sure you hit them back harder! |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:38
Shouldnt really happen these days - Runfer D'Hills
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School I went to in the 60's and 70s ( same one for 13 years ) had a very old fashioned view of bullying. There was already a lot of violence from the teachers so getting roughed up in the playground was just another version really and because it was a "posh" school you used to get the sh..ertilser kicked out of you on the way home too by kids from the "normal" schools. One learned to live with pain, indignity and humiliation. In extreme cases of in-school bullying the victim would be invited to get in a boxing ring with his aggressor while the games master read the paper until he felt enough blood had been spilt and honour satisfied. This was not a great deal of help if the guilty party was three years older and twice your size but it made men of us they said.. Eventually, the ones who survived this "priveleged" education learned to defend themselves or not. For my own part I've always been fairly fit so I coped but plenty of friends did not. One ended up in the funny farm. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:44
Shouldnt really happen these days - Stuu
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I went to a very rough all boys secondary school 91-96. On break times teachers all hid away and it was common to be 'hunted'. Outwardly the school had a good rep for bullying because they covered it up. The culture of silence was Mafia like. One boy, much bigger than me attacked me when I was 15. I must admit, it was one of the few times I had a go back. I tripped him and went at him with a chair, kicked him in the face, bit of blood ( and disbelief on his part ) and some bruised ribs. It happened alot, never reported by students. Santuary isnt about dealing with the bullying, its about providing refuge - if the entire school feels like a war zone, knowing there is somewhere that you can definatively get away from things is an important tool in giving people the confidence that they can be protected. Im afraid in cases of serious bullying, rational thinking doesnt prevail and belief in 'the system' seems rather optimistic, optimism being quite the opposite feeling most bullied kids are filled with. My school provided a small area of the library for bullied kids to go on any break time. It was always staffed ( by my form tutor no less ) and after he allowed me to go there, others followed ( a couple of gay lads and a handful of christians, plus my extremely short of stature friend to start with ). I was talking to an old teacher of mine and they extended the idea after I left. Truth is, yes you can tackle lower level bullying quite effectively, but if it is determined and sophisticated ( bullies might be unpleasent but they aint always stupid ), there isnt always alot a school can do within their powers. With me it started at school and extended to my life outside school and the law itself doesnt offer any serious protection - plenty of bullies know this. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:47
Shouldnt really happen these days - L'escargot
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| It's amazing how times have changed. When I was at school there was no such thing as bullying. What's gone wrong? Humans are still humans with brains, not animals that act largely out of reflex action. Why has the level of morality dropped so much? |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:50
Shouldnt really happen these days - Fenlander
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>>>It's amazing how times have changed. When I was at school there was no such thing as bullying. Oh come on... you really mean you were never a target so not bothered by it. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 17:57
Shouldnt really happen these days - Fenlander
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>>>Santuary isnt about dealing with the bullying, its about providing refuge - if the entire school feels like a war zone, knowing there is somewhere that you can definatively get away from things is an important tool in giving people the confidence that they can be protected. Then in providing that sanctuary and accepting it's needed the school is almost supporting bullying and avoiding dealing with the causes. >>>Truth is.... there isnt always alot a school can do within their powers. Sorry that's defeatism. They can do a great deal if told. As I said at my girl's school the bullies will be hauled in with their parents and suspended if they repeat their actions. Often the bullies come from decent homes and once the parents have to face the teachers things get resolved fast. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 18:23
Shouldnt really happen these days - Stuu
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Its supporting the bullied, not the bullies. When you lock your home up at night do you ever consider leaving everything open and then relying on the police to handle things should anyone break the law? You cant hope that all bullied kids will tell anyone, some of them just cant and unless you have been one of those kids, you cannot imagine how it affects you. I know what I needed and it was provided for me by a teacher who knew that he couldnt act as bodyguard to 6 boys, but he could give us a place to go where he could ensure our safety, out of reach of the bullies - that made the difference for us because it was direct and effective. In the en, bullies gave up because we were out of reach. Your lucky, you got a resolution, but had you found a child of yours swinging from the ceiling, you may not have so much confidence in what your saying. Harsh I know, but it does happen because people are very ignorant about it unless they have been in the same situation. There will always be kids that slip through the net and they need another route by which to be detected or at the very least, protected. My main concern is the direct protection of a bullied child whether it validates the bullies or not. I wouldnt take the chance in order to persue due process of school bullying policy. I did attempt suicide at 14 as did another pupil in my year. Thankfully neither of us were at all good at it so we survived, but if you had told me you were going to solve it by writing 70 odd letters to half the boys in my years parents and many more besides, id have had a second go. Talk about sticking a target on a kid. I might aswell have stood on their front door step and said something rude about their mum if I wanted to make it worse. It may well work if the parents care enough but the kind of hardened, drug taking, knife carrying boys I shared school with wouldnt have cared whatsoever about exclusion - several were but when they were waiting for me friend and I outside the school gates with baseball bats, it somehow just didnt seem all that effective. We outran them ( glad they smoked! ) but I didnt feel empowered that they werent allowed in school so your exclusion threat, worthless. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 18:04
Shouldnt really happen these days - paulb
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>> >>>It's amazing how times have changed. When I was at school there was no such >> thing as bullying. >> >> Oh come on... you really mean you were never a target so not bothered by >> it. >> Quite. One of the worst features of a boarding school is the fact that you cannot escape this kind of thing. If they want to come and drag you out of your bed at 3am for a kicking, it will happen. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 19:56
Shouldnt really happen these days - smokie
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| I was a boarder at a minor public from 11 - 18 and paulb is right, it was ever so hard to get away from. And as per Humph's observations above, the school seemed to make little effort to the "character building" going on all the time. I was one of the worst picked-on in my year and I don't feel any the worse for it - not sure it did me a lot of good either, but I have more respect for others than I often see today, and that#'s not out of fear of them. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 18:21
Shouldnt really happen these days - L'escargot
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>> >>>It's amazing how times have changed. When I was at school there was no such >> thing as bullying. >> >> Oh come on... you really mean you were never a target so not bothered by >> it. >> I can but repeat ~ when I was at school there was no such thing as bullying. There was the occasional (and soon forgotten) playground fight but that was all. Times have changed and for the life of me I just don't understand why. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 18:27
Shouldnt really happen these days - Marc
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"Quite. One of the worst features of a boarding school is the fact that you cannot escape this kind of thing. If they want to come and drag you out of your bed at 3am for a kicking, it will happen." Great selling point. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 18:48
Shouldnt really happen these days - R.P.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11478776 A stripped down less emotive report. |
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New Wed 6 Oct 10 10:15
Shouldnt really happen these days - paulb
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>> Great selling point. >> Oh, you haven't had the closer yet: this cost my Dad £10k a year plus extras (think they charge better than double that now). It would have been more than that, too, except that I won a scholarship that knocked a bit off. Incorrigibly mis-run establishment. You could torment younger/smaller/different pupils with impunity and not an eyelid was batted - doubly so if you happened to wear the different tie denoting status as a prefect. But if you were caught smoking or in bed with one of the girls, the full might of Authority crashed down upon you. Talk about a schizophrenic approach. Having discussed this with various contemporaries of mine we are unanimously of the view that we wouldn't send any children of ours there if places were gift-wrapped and free. It's not even as if it conferred any advantage either. Mrs B went to the local comp and got into Oxford. I didn't even bother applying... |
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New Wed 6 Oct 10 09:04
Shouldnt really happen these days - Focusless
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>> I can but repeat ~ when I was at school there was no such thing >> as bullying. Presumably you mean just at your school(s)? |
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New Wed 6 Oct 10 09:30
Shouldnt really happen these days - CGNorwich
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"It's amazing how times have changed. When I was at school there was no bullying" Ah the golden age when there was no bullying, no child abuse, no drunkenness, children did what they were told and if they did not they received a clip round the ear from the friendly local bobby. I went to a well respected grammar school in the early sixties and I can tell you that bullying certainly existed there, directed as it normally is against those who stood our from the crowd. The fat boy, the Jewish lads who did not go to assembly and those who were poor at sport. Bullying is a fundamental trait of humanity (and most other social animals) and will always arise in large social groups and something that in a civilised society we need to deal with |
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New Wed 6 Oct 10 09:59
Shouldnt really happen these days - Pat
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Not forgetting those who had to queue to get free school meals. Or the ones who's uniform (which is supposed to be a great leveller, after all) was either too big or too small, because it had to last forever. Pat |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 20:09
Shouldnt really happen these days - -
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>> It's amazing how times have changed. When I was at school there was no such >> thing as bullying. There wasn't at the school i attended either L'es, there was a culture of respect and decency, yes even among boys aged 11 to 18 or so...not to say there wasn't the ocassional punch up, i've still got the bent nose dished out to me by McHugh though he had similar face battering and we shook hands afterwards and no ill feeling then or now. The school could and would deal out severe punishments if necessary but these were rarely used, Mr Buller the Deputy Head could freeze your very soul with just a withering look across the assembly hall. It changed when Masters and Mistresses became teachers and lost the mortar boards and cape's and the authority that they carried. |
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New Tue 5 Oct 10 20:24
Shouldnt really happen these days - The Melting Snowman
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Bullying never existed in our day either. Otherwise you got the cane. And it b hurt ;-) |
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