There's been stuff on the news about whether we should test Chinese arrivals. UK government says no but as many as 50% of passengers arriving in Italy have been testing positive.
Mrs B is presently in Northampton Hospital. Visiting said to be 14:00 - 16:00 with some further restrictions on number visiting and duration. Son went in today and was (quite rudely) ordered off the ward as all visits are suspended due Covid and Flu:
www.northamptongeneral.nhs.uk/Patients-and-Visitors/Wards-and-visiting/Wards-and-visiting.aspx
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Yep same at my Trust although we never really took them away much to staff and visitors annoyance, flu seems to be treated more severely, we shut down a whole bay (six beds) if flu is detected compared to just the individual bed with Covid.
Sense of de-ja-vu when other countries were putting in restrictions early and the UK just waited and said 'yeah come on in'... and then it was too late.
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News sources in China say the authorities there are vastly understating the number of cases. Seems borne out if the infection rate of visitors is so high.
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My trust is on and off, strangely by department. So I can walk through the hospital maskless, had my stuff done maskless, then the next day walk through the hospital - maskless, and be told to take a mask before I enter a different department
Hey ho, they get the stuff done on time and to schedule, so go with the flow.
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Didn't we learn last time??
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The government line is that we have put Covid restrictions behind us, if I correctly recall what Johnson said the other day. A great example of cakeism.
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We should have learned a few things over the last 3 years:
To ensure high confidence the virus cannot enter is complete shutdown of immigration. China and Australia amongst others tried this - cities locked down, quarantine for incoming passengers etc. Even that was not 100% effective.
A ban would include all flights to UK - once the virus is outside China it will spread globally. Holidays would be cancelled.
A further thing we have learned. China is in a bit of a panic because they have a low level of immunity either through vaccination or contact. Australia who have vaccinated intensively opened up with limited problems.
The UK has a high level of vaccine roll out. It has dismantled a lot of the control mechanisms - testing, social distancing rules etc etc. There is very limited public appetite for their reintroduction - imposition would likely be ignored unless the threat was abundantly clear.
We do not know (a) what the current situation is in China, (b) are there new mutations, and (c) is the current level of vaccine protection adequate to provide protection.
In summary - we know that half measures are ineffectual and just slow the rate of spread at best. Before applying a "precautionary principle" shutdown we need to know a lot more given the immense cost and disruption, and the risk it may be effectively unenforceable.
Last edited by: Terry on Fri 30 Dec 22 at 03:35
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I don’t support a full reintroduction of the previous restrictions. However slowing the rate of spread among the vulnerable would be a good thing to ensure limited hospital capacity is not overwhelmed. This can hopefully be achieved by the traditional actions people used to take in the days of traditional flu. If you’re sick, stay away from folks as much as practicable, exercise good hygiene etc.
I am not sure about upping routine testing for Covid unless it’s shown to be more infectious or deadly than flu. We self-tested positively for Covid in mid December but we didn’t do anything different compared to flu. We just stayed at home for five days.
I am more concerned at the reported high infection rate in the Chinese population as those coming here are unlikely to voluntarily self isolate if infected. As it’s inevitable that infection will spread as the border opens we can only slow it, not avoid it altogether. As a short term measure I would have thought visas for Chinese visitors should only be granted to tested business travellers initially to reduce the initial infection rate. The brakes could then be relaxed in the coming weeks as appropriate.
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I think the Chinese still require vaccination status for incoming visitors, not unreasonable to reciprocate
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Two interviews this morning with reps from the travel industry regarding placing restrictions on travel from China.... they just poo-poo'd the idea saying we need to leave with it basically they (the industry) couldn't face another drop in sales.... says it all.
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Isn't that because the more recent strains here have been less vicious than the initial ones, and there is an assumption that it'll be no worse than flu? I expect if people start dropping like flies again at least a few people may have to accept some forms of control. And as Martin said slowing the rate would be a useful thing to do anyway but many won't be able to understand that.
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Should i be panic buying bog roll yet? Might have to nip to costco, see if there's any left.
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Smokie, according to the nurse who did my bloods this week, patients are reporting that a second dose of Covid seems to be worse recently.
We had our third Christmas spoilt by Covid, with Son in law becoming ill on the 20th and being really quite poorly, recalling only bits of days. Unlike previous bout he had shrugged off. He is a top level sportsman, so found it hard. We found it hard because he cooks Christmas dinner usually!
My son (who is in very high risk group) and I proved five jabs were worth it for us. Daughter succumbed this Wednesday, seems ok so far.
Last edited by: DeeW on Sat 31 Dec 22 at 00:12
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Yes, I used to say here that it hasn't gone away as I don't believe there is any technical reason it should have, but I was secretly hoping it had.
A mate and his wife had it a few months ago - for him it wasn't too bad but she was really quite ill. My daughter has had it three (maybe four) times now, she's never been too bad with it but nor has it been a walk in the park. Even teh same strain seems to get people differently.
Sorry to hear about your family Dee (and your Christmas!!!), wishing a quick and full recovery for all.
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>> Two interviews this morning with reps from the travel industry regarding placing restrictions on travel
>> from China.... they just poo-poo'd the idea saying we need to leave with it basically
>> they (the industry) couldn't face another drop in sales.... says it all.
The Chinese haven't traveled since Covid struck. There would be no "drop" in sales, and I doubt the industry could cope with and meet a sudden surge in travel.
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>> To ensure high confidence the virus cannot enter is complete shutdown of immigration. China and
>> Australia amongst others tried this - cities locked down, quarantine for incoming passengers etc. Even
>> that was not 100% effective.
I don't think China is much of an example TBH.
What do you mean by immigration? A returning UK citizen or somebody with Right to Reside could bring it in.
AIUI what's spreading in China is sub mutation of Omicron. That, or other sub variants, are already likely to be rampant in the UK but since we're not testing we simply do not know how many people have it.
Testing arrivals from China seems like it might be a worthwhile precaution but how many actual arrivals per day are there from China?
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>> AIUI what's spreading in China is sub mutation of Omicron. That, or other sub variants,
>> are already likely to be rampant in the UK but since we're not testing we
>> simply do not know how many people have it.
They are still doing population sample testing. The latest figure gave a projected 1.2m infected in England. I believe the latest weekly hospital admissions figure is c. 7,000 (an increase of about 20% on the previous week) and deaths c. 500.
shorturl.at/cGJV5 (ONS)
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 30 Dec 22 at 14:25
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>>
>> They are still doing population sample testing. The latest figure gave a projected 1.2m infected
Indeed they are. Sent back my latest blood test and swab test this morning. At least I know once a month whether I’ve got it or not ( they advise you of a positive test result and also your antibody levels). Avoided it so far.
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I read today that there is a surge in a further Omicron variant (XBB, with 44% of new cases apparently) which is (also apparently) capable of evading antibodies from previous Covid infections or vaccinations, though at the moment they don't think hospitalisations are rising too much as a result of it.
www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/xbb15-subvariant-cdc-reports-new-omicron-strain-taking-rcna63512
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China is reporting a negligible number of deaths from Covid and a trivial number of infections.
Neither apparently is consistent with the visible demand on hospitals. The criteria for classifying a death as Covid are ridiculously narrow. The patient has to have died of a respiratory failure with lung damage present as confirmed by a scan. Total reported deaths are 3 per million cf. 2400 per million in the UK.
China has provided no details of the variants making up the cases. It is presumed to be largely Omicron B5 but...
Chinese vaccines are not the best.
We've had Covid twice. I'm still here, and if I have any long term effects I am not aware of them. But my wife had arrhythmia after the first infection, concerning enough to have been given an echo and MRI. She has recovered from that but has never completely got rid of the cough.
There is no doubt in my mind that long Covid exists and I know of at least one researcher who works on long term effects on the brain who needs no convincing.
It's very glib of Johnson to say we have put precautions behind us.
For the moment at least I intend to have all the vaccine protection I am offered.
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likewise with the vaccine protection. I’ll take everything going, and my flu jab.
I’ve tested positive three times, which is hardly surprising given my social habits taking light refreshment, regular bus journeys and flights. I had zero symptoms and only tested as I was a regular visitor to my 95yo mum.
I felt far worse the past 10 days....ear ache, stinking cold, gallons of phlegm and a hacking cough. Tested negative.
Pre hip op late September I had to wear a mask immediately upon entering Wrightington to meet the surgeon. Same when I was admitted for the actual op. In my room I didn’t have to wear a mask, but all nursing staff had to. Same for me when I left my room to practice walking. I didn’t have a problem with that, whether or not mask wearing is efficacious.
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Was hoping to see my sister and my nieces/nephew tomorrow. Not seen them for Christmas/NY for a while. Xmas 19 was stymied by logistics of getting my son and daughter down there too, then Covid *2
Yesterday my brother in law tested +ve for Covid.
As I'm expecting Mrs B who has had Pneumonia home any day soon saying sod it I'm vaccinated isn't an option. Neither is them here or a neutral ground as others may be hatching it.
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Manatee said,
>>We've had Covid twice. I'm still here, and if I have any long term effects I am not aware of them. But my wife had arrhythmia after the first infection, concerning enough to have been given an echo and MRI. She has recovered from that but <<<
I had problems with an intermittently slowed heart rate following the second Pfizer, which resolved over about 12 weeks, with a 24 hr ECG showing only minor 'non-concerning' issues. However with the 3rd (booster) the symptoms then re-occurred, - and once again partially improved over a a 6 month period. Echo and ECG then showed as normal, but a a further 48hr ECG resulted in a re-review. Several different cardiology consultants indicated that I should then avoid any future Pfizer and regard Moderna with ???. Hence I regard my now unvaccinated self as vulnerable. Consultants would not say that that the vaccine shots had caused the problems, although conceded that it may have aggravated an underlying latent? condition. Then on re-re-review it was decided that a pacemaker would be a suitable insurance policy against future issues. Now 4 weeks in, and waiting for the first review of what the remote monitoring shows.
At no point during this period did I suffer any classic fainting or dizziness symptoms, with slow rate episodes primarily showing overnight. Not sure that the Pacemaker has changed how I feel or even if it has kicked in?
The one thing that did strike me was that the medical profession seem reluctant to link the vaccines with any adverse health effects. Is this because they do not wish to jeopardise the vaccine program, as it is for the common good, despite the risk to a very small percentage of recipients? The press now seem to link additional heart related excess deaths to Covid - but I have seen no mention of vaccine related concerns.
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>> Is this because they do not wish to jeopardise the vaccine program, as it is for the common good, despite the risk to a very small percentage of recipients?
Also because it's difficult to prove from available data I think. Just about any ailment you can think of will have happened to some people immediately following a Covid jab (or a pint of Carling, or a Greggs sausage roll although it seems less likely they would cause a heart problem other than over a period of years).
Also very cautious because, people being what they are, they will extend any doubt to all vaccines - MMR, flue, polio or whatever.
Equally I think it would be difficult (and almost certainly wrong) to say there cannot possibly be a causal link.
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>>The press now seem to link additional heart
>> related excess deaths to Covid - but I have seen no mention of vaccine related
>> concerns.
Probably because there isn't one. One could however quite easily see how the stress on the system from having covid could spark fatalities from a previously suspect cardio vascular system.
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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc and all that, so I'm not saying it has to be related, but the boss has had a racking cough ever since we had our second booster on 8th December.
We had Covid in October and she had the tail end of that cough, but it came back with a vengeance a couple of days after the jab.
She says she is OK but for the cough, which is unproductive, but the reflex is constant and people swerve round her in the supermarket!
She tests negative for Covid and has done since the end of October.
Has anybody else experienced this?
She sounds so bad at times I want to drag her off to the hospital but that seems pointless just now.
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Too right...myself, old mum and a pal had the most awful hacking coughs. Up several times in the night taking honey. After Benylin the nose blowing began...so much that mine bled for days with constant paper tissues.
Still coughing at night...a proper hacking cough although I’m on the mend.
We have all tested negative.
Lots of liquids, primarily cups of tea and litres of tap water.
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Post viral cough. Fairly common and can take a long time to shift. A couple or months or so. If it doesnt go after a couple of months check it out with a doctor
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>>Post viral cough
I've had this since covid in March, although it's gradually improving. I don't think it can be classed as long covid, as there's no other symptoms. I did ditch the weed twenty years ago.
Grandson had a streaming cold Christmas day when we visited. Surprised we weren't informed as SWMBO's Clinically Extremely Vulnerable. We've both been on the First Defence and, seemingly, avoided it. We've both been sneezing since!
We're on the ONS covid survey. SWMBO's last result came back as unconclusive, mine was clear. Haven't a clue what that could mean.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Sat 31 Dec 22 at 22:30
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>>Post viral cough
Sis has had that for quite some time, keeps her awake at night. Quack gave her antis but did no good.
Nurse at dialysis blamed fluid on her lungs, drained fluid (great for reducing BP) but cough still there.
Best to consult an 'orse doctor like neighb at olde cottidge used to.
It's not the cough that carries you orf ...
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>> Post viral cough.
Looked it up. I think you're probably right, thanks.
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The Trust that Miss Z works at has declared a critical incident due to the number of sick people.
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At the end of last week we have gone past critical with our bed capacity.... we are on the verge of cancelling much of our elective surgery because the hospital is full of medical patients with no where to be discharged to so blocking our surgical throughput.
Admissions have sky rocketed... many with CV19 but loads with flu like symptoms that require medical intervention.
Unfortunately it seems today we will be asking patients to attend for their procedures knowing full well that they will end up being cancelled due to no overnight (Inpatient) bed or anywhere to fully recovery them and do their discharges.
This was all brought up by us last week but the higher management have decided it best to carry on and 'see what happens on the day'.... this is how we are running things now, crisis management from minute to minute.
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Hand written sign seen at a mountain biking venue over the holiday weekend read - Please take extra care at the moment, we can probably fix your bike if you fall off, but it might be difficult to find anyone to fix you right now!
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Covid Restrictions Coming Back? - Rudedog
