The (at least) 36 year old boiler has failed to start again today.
It is freezing here!
The small fan heater is doing an amazing job at heating up the lounge but it is going to cost a fortune.
I think I am going to replace the boiler with something newer. Just don't know what yet.
The house is too draughty for a heat pump.
Water pressure to the kitchen is fine (12l/m) so I am hoping that it will be suitable for a condenser boiler but I do like a powerful shower.
So what do I do - go condenser or stick with the standard boiler & hot water tank or stick with a standard boiler and go with a pressurised tank for improved shower performance (which is woeful at the moment)?
Boilers seem to cost about £2k at Screwfix and I guess an installer is going to get a discount.
What sort of cost should I be looking at for the install as BOXT want about £5k?
How long should it take to change out a boiler?
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>> What sort of cost should I be looking at for the install as BOXT want
>> about £5k?
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>> How long should it take to change out a boiler?
May need to factor in improving the gas supply to the boiler location.
Neighbour, in house identical to mine, changed the builder fitted conventional Baxi for a condensing type. Needed a new pipe from the meter to boiler as bore of the original was inadequate.
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Thanks Bromp! More expense :-D
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Price? depends on how much you decide to change in the system. Paid about 3.5 k for a new system boiler and converted to a fully pumped system. (dont have sufficient mains pressure for a combi)
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Baxi 400 condensing in previous owse, very quiet and efficient, wish I could swop this blimmin heat pump for one TBH
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Paid £4500 to a plumber/heating engineer last February for a replacement boiler whilst refitting kitchen:-
Worcester Bosch Greenstar i condensing boiler, replaces 38 year old balanced flue boiler installed by me - still working. New boiler just fits into a largs standard wall unit.
Existing circulation pipes used to new 300 litre pressurised insulated cylinder, replacing hot and cold tanks in the roof space.
Hot and cold water are at mains pressure.
Gas consumption for the last quarter (Billed yesterday) 4772kWh. Same quarter last year 6569kWh - helps to ameliorate the higher prices.
Took three days.
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You can get a stand alone booster pump for your shower. We've got one as the pressure is poor. I think they are about 150 ish.
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I understand, having looked very recently, that a typical boiler replacement cost for a modernish 4 bed house is ~£2500-3000.
However if boiler is 38 years old there may be a load of additional work advised as much of the system will, I assume, be of similar vintage.
Even if not currently defective - radiators may be corroded or silted up, hot water tank may be time served, pipework may need significant modification, thermostats pumps and heating controls may need updating.
It's your call whether you spend the money now to get an updated system which may run for years before further work is required, or go for cheapest immediate option with risk of future failures.
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Terry has a point - I replaced my old boiler about 3 years ago (which, btw, requires a full system power flush which alone comes to at least £200) for the warranty.
I've recounted the tales here but since I've needed a new cylinder, new pump and new three way valve, and I did another flush (myself) a week back because of poor performance of parts of the system - tough that may have been down to re-balancing too.
I didn't have my boiler relocated at install time and IIRC it took a couple of days
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So what do I do - go condenser
All boilers are now of the condensing type. They have to be. I think you mean Combi
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Yes - Condensing, not Combi IMHO.
I've never seen a combi installation that gives enough hot water.
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The questions is enough for what?
A decent Combi boiler will easily be sufficient for most houses and provide it is of a sufficient size will provide plenty of hot water for a shower and other purposes Conventional wisdom would be a system or heat only boiler for houses with more than one bathroom although even this isn't necessarily the case. Problems of insufficient hot water supply only really arise when you want to runs say two showers simultaneously and in reality that doesn't often occur in most households. The advantage of a Combi is that the water never runs cold as it does when you have used up the contents of a hot water cylinder
We were going to have a Combi boiler but were only prevented by having low water pressure
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If this helps....
I’ve a 4 bed detached. 2 bathrooms. Downstairs WC.
The ‘olde’ system as installed when built in 1999...cylinder, tanks in the loft.
Hated the bathrooms for 18 years but they worked. Better than wild camping.
100% renovation of bathrooms in late 2020, then installed new boiler job, changing to a combi. Had to upgrade the gas supply to boiler. Outside gas pipe, up gable end, under floorboards and joists, which ran in the wrong direction.
Plumber installed an Intergas Eco RF36, and immediately below it a Canetis Combi Superflow ( pre heat store). I assume this stores and pre heats the water before going into the combi boiler.
I’d never heard of Intergas boilers, but the plumber came highly recommended so I assumed he was a good ‘un.
With a Ferrox magnet filter, inhibitor, pipe work, upgraded gas supply, and all labour, start to finish, if cost me £2783.
Result is a far more efficient boiler, and a fantastic flow of hot water...think rain forest type in my en-suite. Surprisingly, and as promised, I can get hot water from 3 sources simultaneously....shower, bath and downstairs kitchen sink. Ideal for a family.
His labour costs...he’s self employed, were £800, included in the above amount. Job done.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sun 11 Dec 22 at 18:42
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When I bought this place back in the Spring, I decided the very ancient looking gas boiler and gravity fed, open vented system needed updating.
The plumber I used got what he could at the time, an Ideal 40Kw, combi. One rad had severe rust and was leaking. He suggested replacing all 10 - I did.
I've two showers and both have never been used at the same time. There's more than adequate for one.
I don't know what the supply situation's like now, I would've like a Worcester/Bosch, but none were available and I understand the factory was closing down as they couldn't source parts.
Ripping out the old and replacing it with a power flush, magnetic filter, magnet water softener(!), wireless thermostat/programmer, TRVs and larger gas pipe cost £4.5K.
The old place wasn't selling and the plumber costed up a similar job but replacing only the bathroom rad at £3.5K.
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Ireplaced my boiler in summer. About £2k Inc fitting.
Linked to our existing pressurised hot water cylinder.
Gives a very powerful shower (we have 2 showers in the house and reason we got this set up originally was due to there being 4 showers taken every morning, often with both running simultaneously.
New boiler odd so much quieter than the old one. I used to be able to lie in bed and know when the boiler had fired up. Not anymore.
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>>pressurised hot water cylinder.
Colleague had one of them spring a leak, it had to be replaced. He bought the house new, ten years ago. Was told that was about its expected life, the same as the boiler. Insurance paid for his ceilings. He's wondering if he should replace the boiler now, instead of waiting for it to fail.
Relative is having problems with the same sort of system. Heating fails regularly and they're having to rely on electric heaters and the immersion. Numerous call-outs haven't found the problem, latest suggestion is water leak in the concrete floor!
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>> >>pressurised hot water cylinder.
>>
>> Colleague had one of them spring a leak, it had to be replaced. He bought
>> the house new, ten years ago. Was told that was about its expected life, the
>> same as the boiler. Insurance paid for his ceilings. He's wondering if he should replace
>> the boiler now, instead of waiting for it to fail.
Previous occupants of our house replaced the entire system, and relocated it from the loft space to the garage.
Thankfully.
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"Colleague had one of them spring a leak, it had to be replaced. He bought the house new, ten years ago. Was told that was about its expected life, the same as the boiler."
With respect, this is cobblers. Pressurised water cylinders typically have a 25-year warranty. We've had one here in our current property since it was installed when the house was built in 1996.
Boilers are shorter-lived. Modern condensing boilers should last for up to 15 years. In my earlier post about replacing one of these, it had in fact managed 14 years. This is in the house I rent out. At home here we replaced the boiler in April of this year; it had lasted 12 years.
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Just to add: the boilers in both houses are now Vaillant, with a ten-year guarantee.
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Recently I had to deal with a very similar scenario to the OP. I replaced an old condensing boiler with a new Vaillant (long guarantee) and updated the system to direct pressure, removing the tank in the loft. New pump, system flushed.
There were problems with airlocks - no doubt the fault of poor design when the house was built.
The job took about a day and a half. Cost around four and a half grand.
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And don’t forget a condensate pipe.
Took the skirting off one wall, boxed in ( on top) replaced skirting.
exit through same external wall as the increased gas supply, and down into waste drain
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My Worcester Bosch Green star combi was replaced with a WB 4000 30 kw 2 weeks ago.
Cost £2400,took about 7hours.
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In any case condensing boiler is required.
The cheapest (and quickest) option will be to replace what you have with similar - presume the HW tank is gravity rather than pressurised. If the system is not fully pumped, then this will need to be added, but that's not too hard. Condensate drain might be a challenge depending on where the boiler is.
Changing to a combi might be a cheaper than changing the cylinder for a HP one ,but that will depend on the relative locations, gas pipe size etc. As noted a Combi wants to be at least 36kW and preferably more, and may need a 28mm gas pipe all the way from the meter. If location of the combi does not have hot / cold water and heating connections then you are looking at a reconfigure that may add significant cost / time. Need to get a man that knows in to review and advise.
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Our boiler was moves to the first floor and was difficult to route condensate drain. Problem was overcome by using a condensate pump and routing the drain through the ceiling and into the drainage stack in the loft space. Works well although you occasionally hear the automatic pump start up in the small hours.
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4 years ago our boiler gave in.
Discussions re- Combi dismissed as they said it was floors up, copper pipes replaced by plastic, all new radiators because the decades of residue in copper pipes & radiators.
Swapped like for like (Cold water tank, hot water cylinder etc etc) same make but 5 models on from original. Every connection lined up, new pump etc etc.
2.5 hours out/boiler installed and working. 4/5 hours getting everything working 100%.
4 years on still 100% and only servicing.
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I arranged to have both mine and my old Mums boilers serviced yesterday. I’m currently staying with her short term after my op...it’s closer to town and she enjoys the company.
Plumber then drove me to my place...£60 labour per boiler. He’s very thorough...replaced the seal/gasket on my Intergas Combi (£11) and expansion vessel on mother’s Veissmann (£95).
I’ve no idea what plumbers normally charge but an annual service maintains the 10 year warranty...all readings duly logged in the Intergas service book.
Last edited by: legacylad on Thu 15 Dec 22 at 09:50
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Boiler Woes - Bromptonaut
